The power of Internal Martial Arts

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[minkus]

Where you find those lol ?

[Mal]

Another interesting video that focuses on the subtleties of Neijia arts:

 

I liked that one, nice balance. Had to watch it a few times as I couldn't read the subtitles and watch the moves at the same time

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[minkus]

Ow ok cool, should check there more often

[That Guy]

After reading what orb and the opposition had to say, this fight between internal and external martial arts came to mind, so have a look

 

 

Whats your opinion on this?

 

EDIT: This too came right after I posted the reply

 

 

Its poor quality, in more ways than one...

Edited August 19, 2009 by That Guy

[Sloppy Zhang]

After reading what orb and the opposition had to say, this fight between internal and external martial arts came to mind, so have a look

 

 

Whats your opinion on this?

 

Lol, I don't think many would consider that kiai master to be what they have in mind when talking of an IMA master.

 

is one of my favorite demonstrations of taiji. Not a full blown fight, but a good example.

 

EDIT: This too came right after I posted the reply

 

 

Its poor quality, in more ways than one...

 

Hmm, yeah, that fight was kind of disappointing.

 

But I think it should also be mentioned that that fight was held under western boxing rules (a rule imposed by whoever held the fight, not the masters themselves as I understand). Meaning, no real grappling, no ground fighting, no kicks, etc. At least that's what I've heard from doing some research on fthe fight.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[That Guy]

Well the master was obviously using his internal power to beat his opponents, until he got one whose ki was far greater than his I guess..

 

And its fair to say they were under restriction, but even then it was pretty bad. I'm sure a tae kwon do fighter would have fought better under the same restrictions though ( i pick tkd as an example because they rely on kicks a lot last I heard)

 

Your video is interesting and shows great balance and technique by the master, but would he really be able to defend himself in the guy were to really attack him?

 

I ve seen some more impressive "kung fu" fights, but they resemble kick boxing/sanshou. I dont see any bagua rotations for example, I ve always wanted to see that in practice

 

I got some more videos:

 

Ok I dont know how real it is, by that I mean how much they were suppose to hold back

 

This is the real deal kung fu I guess, not sure if "Northern Praying Mantis" is internal though

 

Not sure what this is, but it was kinda funny with the music and all

 

And one more, better sparring, but could they stand up to an mma fighter from the local gym?

 

EDIT: I think tai chi and other arts like that have benefits and are worth practicing BUT is it really what you'd wanna rely on when defending yourself is the question for me.

Edited August 19, 2009 by That Guy

[dwai]

Well the master was obviously using his internal power to beat his opponents, until he got one whose ki was far greater than his I guess..

 

And its fair to say they were under restriction, but even then it was pretty bad. I'm sure a tae kwon do fighter would have fought better under the same restrictions though ( i pick tkd as an example because they rely on kicks a lot last I heard)

 

Your video is interesting and shows great balance and technique by the master, but would he really be able to defend himself in the guy were to really attack him?

 

I ve seen some more impressive "kung fu" fights, but they resemble kick boxing/sanshou. I dont see any bagua rotations for example, I ve always wanted to see that in practice

 

I got some more videos:

 

Ok I dont know how real it is, by that I mean how much they were suppose to hold back

 

This is the real deal kung fu I guess, not sure if "Northern Praying Mantis" is internal though

 

Not sure what this is, but it was kinda funny with the music and all

 

And one more, better sparring, but could they stand up to an mma fighter from the local gym?

 

EDIT: I think tai chi and other arts like that have benefits and are worth practicing BUT is it really what you'd wanna rely on when defending yourself is the question for me.

 

Dunno if you guys have seen this:

 

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well the master was obviously using his internal power to beat his opponents, until he got one whose ki was far greater than his I guess..

 

And its fair to say they were under restriction, but even then it was pretty bad. I'm sure a tae kwon do fighter would have fought better under the same restrictions though ( i pick tkd as an example because they rely on kicks a lot last I heard)

 

Your video is interesting and shows great balance and technique by the master, but would he really be able to defend himself in the guy were to really attack him?

 

I ve seen some more impressive "kung fu" fights, but they resemble kick boxing/sanshou. I dont see any bagua rotations for example, I ve always wanted to see that in practice

 

I got some more videos:

 

Ok I dont know how real it is, by that I mean how much they were suppose to hold back

 

This is the real deal kung fu I guess, not sure if "Northern Praying Mantis" is internal though

 

Not sure what this is, but it was kinda funny with the music and all

 

And one more, better sparring, but could they stand up to an mma fighter from the local gym?

 

EDIT: I think tai chi and other arts like that have benefits and are worth practicing BUT is it really what you'd wanna rely on when defending yourself is the question for me.

 

I suggest you visit the bullshido.net forums and look around in their Chinese Martial Art discussions on the internal arts. There are a few websites here or there that upload videos from China and around the world of Sanshou competitions in which tai chi fighters have entered. The videos specifically show tai chi techniques being used in application, comparing the form, demonstration, and actual sanshou match.

The guys over on bullshido talk about these vids. Despite bullshido's reputation, they don't care what you practice as long as you put it to use, and those vids have convinced even the bullshido guys that taiji has the goods, as long as you work for it.

 

In short, when it comes down to it, it depends on how you train and if you train to implement what you've learned. Taiji was developed to be an efficient martial art, and its history has produced some good fighters. But once it was taken and taught as a "health" system, first to members of imperial families, then to the public.... eh, well you know how it goes.

 

About a year and a half ago I went around looking for videos demonstrating REAL taiji skill, wish I had the links, but they're out there if you really want to look and if you really care.

 

Dunno if you guys have seen this:

 

 

Don't want to spread rumors, but what I hear is that Frantzis spent some serious time training and fighting, really testing his internal skills. I've heard he's supposed to have a bagua book coming out, but don't know about release dates.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[dwai]

I suggest you visit the bullshido.net forums and look around in their Chinese Martial Art discussions on the internal arts. There are a few websites here or there that upload videos from China and around the world of Sanshou competitions in which tai chi fighters have entered. The videos specifically show tai chi techniques being used in application, comparing the form, demonstration, and actual sanshou match.

The guys over on bullshido talk about these vids. Despite bullshido's reputation, they don't care what you practice as long as you put it to use, and those vids have convinced even the bullshido guys that taiji has the goods, as long as you work for it.

 

In short, when it comes down to it, it depends on how you train and if you train to implement what you've learned. Taiji was developed to be an efficient martial art, and its history has produced some good fighters. But once it was taken and taught as a "health" system, first to members of imperial families, then to the public.... eh, well you know how it goes.

 

About a year and a half ago I went around looking for videos demonstrating REAL taiji skill, wish I had the links, but they're out there if you really want to look and if you really care.

Don't want to spread rumors, but what I hear is that Frantzis spent some serious time training and fighting, really testing his internal skills. I've heard he's supposed to have a bagua book coming out, but don't know about release dates.

 

I have Frantzis' Yang Style Tai Chi fighting applications DVD. Some really neat stuff...very practical instructions. Also his books are fantastic and he comes across as a genuine teacher. I have used his dissolving techniques and they work very well...though I'm still learning.

Edited August 19, 2009 by dwai

[Erdrickgr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ykNZ7rAcw...=1&index=12

chi blasters vs normal bjj practitioners

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I...t=1&index=6

totally awesome master vs nobody

 

Nice

[JessOBrien]

Hi all,

I just typed up a long response then deleted it. Sorry, I can be long winded.

 

Kumar, and all my other best Chinese kung fu teachers, told me if you want to get good you have to fight. Until you start winning.

 

That's it.

 

To get good at street fighting, you have to fight on the street. Lose teeth, break bones, go to jail, etc.

 

No other choice.

 

I've settled for mediocre. I spar normal blokes at my own level, and sometimes win. It's an amazing way to learn more about your self and your mind and your body.

 

You only rise to the level of your opponents. I only spar chumps like myself, normal dudes who train an hour or two per day. So I'll always be average.

 

Kumar went a different route. He sought out the best fighters, and lost some and won some. He paid the price physically, mentally and emotionally. Even spiritually. People got hurt.

 

He wanted the skill that bad.

 

I don't want it that bad. Sure I've sparred some ok Muay Thai and MMA bros. They are cool, and they taught me some lessons. But I've never sought to take it to the limit. Fuck that.

 

That's a level of commitment that 99.99% of us will never go to. That's what creates great champions in sport and great martial artists in art.

 

The view of Internal Martial Arts is:If you ever dream of getting good you MUST go out and fight opponents of every different kind, at the highest level of skill you can find, under every rule set you can. Otherwise you will NEVER, EVER, EVER reach a high level of skill. The End.

 

Sincerely,

 

Jess O'Brien

[JessOBrien]

There is a lot of debate about sport v. martial art.

 

It's simple, they are two different universes.

 

Like ping pong versus piano.

 

Sure they both take concentration, talent and hard work to do well.

 

But one is a sport, and one is an art.

 

Sport takes insane amounts of training, daily focused effort of 6 hours a day, coaching, conditioning, ruthless mentality to push through injury. Sweat, blood and tears. To do sport well is an all consuming effort. The desire to WIN is paramount and cannot be made secondary. Sport is way harder than art.

 

Art is something that anyone can do. From finger painting to Picasso, it's all in your perception of it. There is no win or lose. My grandma can do sport, so can my son. There's something for everyone in art.

 

Now, there is fighting in both sport and in martial art. They can cross over, and there are good things to be learned from crossing over.

 

But they CANNOT ever be the same thing, and there's not much use in comparing them.

 

An 80 year old man I once knew spent years in China, fighting a guerilla war against Japanese on one side and Communists on the other. His family was killed, and he lived on very little food per day. He saw people die in front of him, sometimes by his own hand. I think everyone can try to imagine his experience. He told me Tai Chi saved his life. I just don't see how ring fighting could have done the same.

 

Anyways, it's a debate that will go on forever, I've met good fighters in both worlds.

 

Take care,

Jess O

[Baguakid]

I can agree with Jess in theory but I'm below him, I practice for health right now. I'm too old to play that fight game. But, having said that, there are other methods of training which makes the body very strong without compromising health, Neigong training... I have a couple Neigong teachers in Shanghai who if you hit them it's like hitting bricks. They don't know Taiji, Bagua, or other internal arts. They just train Neigong. Amazing.

 

So, there are a lot of theoretical approaches to these arts...

Edited August 19, 2009 by Baguakid

[dwai]

Nice

 

 

maybe an old one...

[Old Man Contradiction]

The view of Internal Martial Arts is:If you ever dream of getting good you MUST go out and fight opponents of every different kind, at the highest level of skill you can find, under every rule set you can. Otherwise you will NEVER, EVER, EVER reach a high level of skill. The End.

 

Sincerely,

 

Jess O'Brien

 

My teacher says the same. Of course, he too went the route of actual fights. He said, "If you want to get good at fighting, go out here (pointing to the street) every night and pick a fight. Pretty soon you'll be pretty good."

 

I can agree with Jess in theory but I'm below him, I practice for health right now. I'm too old to play that fight game. But, having said that, there are other methods of training which makes the body very strong without compromising health, Neigong training... I have a couple Neigong teachers in Shanghai who if you hit them it's like hitting bricks. They don't know Taiji, Bagua, or other internal arts. They just train Neigong. Amazing.

 

So, there are a lot of theoretical approaches to these arts...

 

I agree with this, strength is another matter. To present a different approach to developing strength and power, I'll use someone I train with as an example.

 

This man has power. End of story. He has chi too, but I've never heard him say the word, and I don't even know of he believes in it. All I know is that he is rooted to the ground like concrete, he is extremely united internally and has extremely refined, compact control over his whole body movements. He has trained for physical strength his entire life. He has all of the signs of a good internal martial artist, yet instead of the word chi you'd hear him saying a word out of newtonian physics.... like force or momentum. Of course he practices zhan zhuang, and internal martial arts, yet does not emphasize qi. He used to fight in the ring, but he gives credit for his power to his practice. By the way he is technically an elderly person.

 

Many routes to the same thing.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Old Man Contradiction

[Guest C Yu C He Taiji]

I personally like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCo12XVzvpw

[Mal]

nice link C Yu C He Taiji

 

real fights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1WZIixufXQ

 

There was another one here on TTB of someone getting knifed from behind.

 

Reality = no fun at all

[That Guy]

nice link C Yu C He Taiji

 

real fights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1WZIixufXQ

 

There was another one here on TTB of someone getting knifed from behind.

 

Reality = no fun at all

Yeah stuff like that makes me sick

 

You know if you wanna fight do it in the ring or something, there are plenty of people even willing to pay 2 guys to bash each others faces in. I dont care if its a brutal sport because at least the guys in it know what they re in for and have agreed to it, some poor random guy on the street who gets attacked wasnt asking for any of it!

 

And the worse part is that the nes being attacked if they re good people they might still have second thoughts about harming the other guys, I know I would think twice before firger thrusting someone in the eyes, and by the time they realize they re in a "its me or him" situation it could be too late.

 

Do you guys think if martial arts had remained on the deadly side of things it would have been better?

By that I mean you dont go to a dojo to practice moves get fit, have fun etc. The dojo was a place where you learned to kill or cripple your opponent as quickly as possible the end.

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[NeiChuan]

I actually always thought the guy who vsed the MMA guy was a fake.. Does raise questions why he would put up his own money on the fight though..

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori