The power of Internal Martial Arts

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Michael Roland]

Wow, I can't believe I read this whole thread. I have only myself to blame!

 

People who train fighting are going to be better fighters, no doubt about it.

 

There are Bagau, Xingyi, and Taichi guys who fight well. It's because they have made fighting part of their training and they have good martial training.

 

The vast majority of BJJ and MMA guys will beat up the vast majority of IMA guys because MMA guys train fighting and most IMA guys don't. In fact, it's hard to find IMA guys who really know how to fight, but they are out there. I know several--Vince Black Tucson, AZ Tom Bisio NY, NY (yes, before you ask, they have dealt with BJJ guys handily on occasion) and also some of those on this forum.

 

As for myself, I cry if anyone hits me in the face.

 

 

However, the real point to consider in a Taoist forum might be is IMA, properly trained, offers benefits that cross both physical and non-physical realms beyond time and space and are therefore relevant to our continued existence beyond this short lifetime. We are all immortal whether we like it or not. (so, stop trying so hard:)

 

MMA is essentially pugilistic, temporal, and offers little beyond the physical and mental.

 

If the most sublime achievement available in an art is beating someone to pulp, then it's not for me. If however, it is serenity, spiritual growth, and martial ability as well, I'm in!

 

I like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for its yin(ness) especially.

 

By the way, why doesn't anyone ever talk about old man Gracie meeting the Xingyi man,Hong Yixiang and not being able to do anything at all against him? I think it is chronicled a book called Martial Musings...?

Edited October 7, 2009 by Michael Roland

[enouch]

Wow, I can't believe I read this whole thread. I have only myself to blame!

 

People who train fighting are going to be better fighters, no doubt about it.

 

There are Bagau, Xingyi, and Taichi guys who fight well. It's because they have made fighting part of their training and they have good martial training.

 

The vast majority of BJJ and MMA guys will beat up the vast majority of IMA guys because MMA guys train fighting and most IMA guys don't. In fact, it's hard to find IMA guys who really know how to fight, but they are out there. I know several--Vince Black Tucson, AZ Tom Bisio NY, NY (yes, before you ask, they have dealt with BJJ guys handily on occasion) and also some of those on this forum.

 

As for myself, I cry if anyone hits me in the face.

However, the real point to consider in a Taoist forum might be is IMA, properly trained, offers benefits that cross both physical and non-physical realms beyond time and space and are therefore relevant to our continued existence beyond this short lifetime. We are all immortal whether we like it or not. (so, stop trying so hard:)

 

MMA is essentially pugilistic, temporal, and offers little beyond the physical and mental.

 

If the most sublime achievement available in an art is beating someone to pulp, then it's not for me. If however, it is serenity, spiritual growth, and martial ability as well, I'm in!

 

I like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for its yin(ness) especially.

 

By the way, why doesn't anyone ever talk about old man Gracie meeting the Xingyi man,Hong Yixiang and not being able to do anything at all against him? I think it is chronicled a book called Martial Musings...?

 

 

 

Tell us more about this event!

[Andrei]

great taichi applications:

 

xedIOCYKAF0

[Encephalon]

More quality vids:

 

1. Bagua applications

 

 

Teacher: Han Yanwu (Beijing).

2. Silat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5K__s4OBIE

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb_ZSFDI0yU

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW87o4gfmT4 (Form)

 

Teacher: Simon Das.

One of the key points he emphasizes is the following:

 

The main thing is first learn to overcome the ego (Second vid).

 

Thanks for posting these vidlinks!

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[New Dawn Fades]

I don't know if this has been mentioned here, but part of the reason for yielding in the internal arts is that you use it to steal the other person's balance during their first attacking movement, and if you steal their balance it doesn't matter how good they are because they become helpless. A fight should only last one second!

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[orb]

You are right. This is how Dong Haichuan and Liang Zhenpu and others used to deal with in combat situations in China; or even take a look at Ben Quan (crushing fist) used in Xingyi, which is performed either as a grasp and strike or as a pair of strikes with the fist. If done properly you finish your opponent in one blow and in a second or two.

 

 

I have no idea how they fight in China but I guarantee you that in US none of these techniques would work on the streets. And for some reason people around here assume that all your attackers are going to be slow, weak, stupid and out of balance. Unless you are learning self-defense against zombies - all these taichi applications are useless and the people that teach them are clueless.

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Vajrasattva]

More quality vids:

 

1. Bagua applications

 

 

Teacher: Han Yanwu (Beijing).

2. Silat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5K__s4OBIE

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb_ZSFDI0yU

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW87o4gfmT4 (Form)

 

Teacher: Simon Das.

One of the key points he emphasizes is the following:

 

The main thing is first learn to overcome the ego (Second vid).

 

 

Simon knows his stuff he is my silat brother.

[New Dawn Fades]

You are right. This is how Dong Haichuan and Liang Zhenpu and others used to deal with in combat situations in China; or even take a look at Ben Quan (crushing fist) used in Xingyi, which is performed either as a grasp and strike or as a pair of strikes with the fist. If done properly you finish your opponent in one blow and in a second or two.

 

I don't know if you got my point about stealing the opponent's balance right at the start, few people do because they apparently haven't heard of it, but that is the important thing. If you don't steal their balance then you are in a regular stupid fight, if you do it then they are helpless! If you steal their balance with the first movement then they are helpless and you can do just about anything, no specific techniques are prescripted, but there are thousand available, it seems. You can kill or maim them with the technique that steals their balance (takes one second) or you can steal their balance first and then kill or maim them (two seconds). Or steal their balance and then throw them against a concrete wall or oncoming bus (three seconds). Stealing the balance is a technique that combines yielding and blending while frequently advancing into the opponent at the same time.

 

These techniques are taught by two of the deadliest masters in the US and is used against all kinds of muggers and big bad street fighters, and is taught to special forces operatives, among others. The guy in your last video demonstrated some of this and described it. It is simply high level internal - Tai Chi, Wing Chun, Praying Mantis, doesn't matter, they can all use it but it seems not so many know about it. Unlike everyone else on this forum I have nothing to sell, I'm not telling you who the people are, and I don't want your money or to know you.

Edited October 18, 2009 by New Dawn Fades

[Guest C Yu C He Taiji]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6n6YkZ9-i4...yer_profilepage

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[New Dawn Fades]

Take it easy, no one here is trying to sell anything. We are just sharing information about IMA.

 

My purpose (even though I might give the wrong impression) for IMA is health and energy cultivation, this doesn't mean that IMA are used solely for this purpose. When used for self-defence, IMA are highly effective.

 

My primary purpose is the same as yours and it is great, I love it.

 

Concerning selling things, I was reacting to your last statement in post #212, but perhaps it was just an invitation to watch so sorry if I misinterpreted it. In any case, I know you have integrity and are not a BS artist. Just please tell me you don't wear silk pajamas or give 'transmissions', ROFL

[VCraigP]

I don't know if you got my point about stealing the opponent's balance right at the start, few people do because they apparently haven't heard of it, but that is the important thing.

It is simply high level internal

 

Maintain your balance.

Take away your opponents balance.

More importantly, take it away and keep them off balance until the job is done, that's the real trick.

 

Not advanced. Actually as basic as basic gets, IMO.

 

What are the tools, techniques, methods and arts to achieve this ability?

 

IMA perhaps focuses on this principal better. BUT...it is certainly not only found as a concept in IMA.

 

If you are a student of MA and the idea of balance, how to have it and keep it, and how to take it away from the opponent is not a subject of focus then you are no student.

 

I don't know who these "two deadliest masters" are, but they certainly ain't the only masters who understand this principal.

 

Craig

[New Dawn Fades]

I don't get around much so that's good to know. Apparently some JKD experts don't use it and are easy victims of it but it has priority in my training.

[orb]

Have you bothered yourself watching my last video?

 

Tai Chi is not Bagua, let alone Xingyi.

 

For instance,

 

Let me tell introduce you to Ma Chuanxu, one of the Bagua leaders today in the Bagua world:

 

Mr. Ma Chuanxu is a living legend among current practitioners of Baguazhang in Beijing. Unlike many other teachers he gained his fame not by winning routines competitions or appearing in martial arts magazines but because of his fighting skills tested in many life-and-death fights with bandits during years of service in Public Security Bureau. Only recently one of his colleagues from PSB revealed some of Ma's feats in one of Chinese martial arts magazines - Ma Chuanxu defeated several art smugglers during a fight; caught several drug dealers; "cleaned" train station in China's Zhengzhou of thieves and bandits (he alone caught more than 110 of them within a month). He did it all without using any weapon. He is probably the only person practicing internal martial arts who was employed as the main martial arts coach by Beijing Municipality Public Security Bureau. Many of his students now serve as bodyguards for high rank government officials in China.

 

Excerpt from: Interview with Mr. Ma Chuanxu, Liang Style Baguazhang expert from Beijing and president of the Beijing Baguazhang Research Association

 

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua/machuanxu.html

 

Besides, I am offering you an invitation to come and see us in Australia. We will show you how to finish an opponent using Bagua and/or Xingyi in less than 3 seconds, even if he carries a weapon (this does not include shooting firearms). Send me a PM if interested.

 

I don't know if you are addressing me but if you are then I would love to come and see that.

[voidisyinyang]

So to study at Wudang temple is 100,000 RMB for 3 years -- which is about $3,000?? That's also the cost of travel expenses and visas, etc. I would think -- so $6,000 for 3 years to get your ass kicked? haha.

 

I personally like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCo12XVzvpw

[orb]

[voidisyinyang]

[Sloppy Zhang]

There are some pretty good tai chi threads over on bullshido. They basically focus on tai chi players who enter sanshou competitions, and they look at video clips of tai chi techniques being applied in competition.

 

You might have to search far back, but as far as the reputable people on bullshido go (the people who are rational and look at video evidence rather than just hating, yes, they exist on bullshido), they have all pretty much come to the consensus that yes, IMA's work, if you train properly.

Edited October 19, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[gendao]

Here's an example of such an attack:

 

http://www.movies.martialarm.com/videos/To...al_Street_Fight

Kevin "Kimbo Slice" Ferguson has gone pro and already gotten beaten by 3 MMA guys:

Sean Gannon

Seth Petruzelli

Roy Nelson

However, he has also beaten 4 pro guys as well.

 

Point being that while he totally dominated on the street level, his record has dropped significantly since competing against trained pros. Ergo, the "streets" are often not as "tough" as people think (assuming barehanded fights).

Edited October 19, 2009 by vortex