Obama's birth certificate

[Baguakid]

and wept for joy when he made his speach in Chicago!

 

 

Yeah, I cry too when officals get elected. All of them are just above worthless IMO.

[h.uriahr]

Priceless!!!

 

My birth certificate from about the same era, was typed with a manual Royal typewriter as were almost all documents in the early 60's. The above document looks like it is a product of a digital printer. That being said, I find it hard to believe that Mr Obama would have gotten this far if he did not meet the qualifications for president of the US.

 

Is it so difficult to think that the elections are set up or that they count the votes the way they want to? I think he's the charismatic man they need to make people feel comfy about a nationwide ID and union between canada the us and mexico. People think that it's too far fetched to think about a government that looks over your shoulder 24/7 but they already do. Another civil war isnt far fetched either because it already happened 2 months ago with the Georgia Russia incident. Also a next step is a worldwide economical collapse and ol Obama being the front man for a world government. His economic policies are going to ruin this country. We will become socialist then the next step is communist but it'll be worldwide and it wont be called communism itll be called obamanism.

 

As far as the remark about giving

"Us minorities a chance", well I have no problems for voting for any minority with the views of any other of the people on the ballat but Obama sucks. Obama's also racist, I dont care if he publicly denounced the guy or not because he still attended that racist ass church for what 20 yrs? I guarantee you that's not the first time the guy went all racist and his church is racist through and through.

[Unconditioned]

I'm staying out of this thread.

 

Oh wait...

 

For what it's worth, opinion and commentary really don't matter. We just have to observe what happens when it happens. Otherwise we're slaves to fear or expectation.

[h.uriahr]

I'm staying out of this thread.

 

Oh wait...

 

For what it's worth, opinion and commentary really don't matter. We just have to observe what happens when it happens. Otherwise we're slaves to fear or expectation.

 

Good and to an extent I agree with you. I take it that you dont take any political action at all?

[markern]

Is it so difficult to think that the elections are set up or that they count the votes the way they want to? I think he's the charismatic man they need to make people feel comfy about a nationwide ID and union between canada the us and mexico. People think that it's too far fetched to think about a government that looks over your shoulder 24/7 but they already do. Another civil war isnt far fetched either because it already happened 2 months ago with the Georgia Russia incident. Also a next step is a worldwide economical collapse and ol Obama being the front man for a world government. His economic policies are going to ruin this country. We will become socialist then the next step is communist but it'll be worldwide and it wont be called communism itll be called obamanism.

 

 

 

How do you define socialism as opposed to communism? It seems what you actualy mean is social democracy like we have in Norway, Sweden and Denmark, meaning a combination of a capitalist economy with a large state sector and heavy redistribution of wealth. If that is the case I can assure you there will be no problems as almost all types of international rankings rate our quality of life a good bit above that of the USA despite our "horrbile" "socialism". Actualy rankings with regards to freedom of the press and democracy usualy put these countries well ahead of the US as well so you needn`t be concerned about your freedom either. Communism on the other hand would be a completlty different matter. That would mean 100% state ownership and economic controll but can in principle be combined with electoral democracy and total freedom of the press although that is not very likely in practice. Not a good alternative at all. However, even if Obama were a communist how on earth would he be able to introduce it? Perhaps 1 percent of the US poppulation has communist sympathies and about 0.01% of the economic and politcal elite has communist symphaties while in the army you find something like 0.0000001% with communist sympathies. It would be an impossible task. Neither the army nor branches of goverment nor any elected official would obey orders to such an effect. He would also have the entire poppulation and the might of business against him. You realy need to read up on some elementary political science and history because your arguments are insane

[Unconditioned]

Good and to an extent I agree with you. I take it that you dont take any political action at all?

 

I do take political action, I exercised my right to vote for the person that I thought would do less harm. Democracy isn't perfect, but there are worse alternatives.

 

I just try to see it for what it is: my conditioning has led me to choose this way or that... to maybe alter the conditions that I live in. At the end of the day, it's all just a result of conditioning... which is why shampoo is bettah! .. yeah they don't get much better.

 

Seriously though, we can only do what we've learned to do. So I try not to get too caught up in the whole thing.

[froggie]

Irecently got a copy of my BC and it is pretty much the same --

 

I hope he can find the way thru these dark and difficult times-

 

I voted for Nader (In NJ... BHO didn't need my vote) and wept for joy when he made his speach in Chicago!

 

I SAY HURAH FOR THE WHOLE WORLD -GWB WAS THE WORST PRES EVER IN MY EXPERIENCE-

 

peace

 

if just to learn from it of 'how not to do it'

1 year or less would have been enough. but 8 ????

[h.uriahr]

How do you define socialism as opposed to communism? It seems what you actualy mean is social democracy like we have in Norway, Sweden and Denmark, meaning a combination of a capitalist economy with a large state sector and heavy redistribution of wealth. If that is the case I can assure you there will be no problems as almost all types of international rankings rate our quality of life a good bit above that of the USA despite our "horrbile" "socialism". Actualy rankings with regards to freedom of the press and democracy usualy put these countries well ahead of the US as well so you needn`t be concerned about your freedom either. Communism on the other hand would be a completlty different matter. That would mean 100% state ownership and economic controll but can in principle be combined with electoral democracy and total freedom of the press although that is not very likely in practice. Not a good alternative at all. However, even if Obama were a communist how on earth would he be able to introduce it? Perhaps 1 percent of the US poppulation has communist sympathies and about 0.01% of the economic and politcal elite has communist symphaties while in the army you find something like 0.0000001% with communist sympathies. It would be an impossible task. Neither the army nor branches of goverment nor any elected official would obey orders to such an effect. He would also have the entire poppulation and the might of business against him. You realy need to read up on some elementary political science and history because your arguments are insane

Impossible? Nope. A nation wide ID system was something never thought of or heard of and many people are still against it but guess what, in 2009 it begins to begin to be implemented. People also think that a draft wont ever happen but a democrat wrote and submitted the bill and a democrat is in the seat again so dont think the US wont have a draft in the next major war. As far as communism goes.

 

Some people will recognize it for what it is but all of the other people who are in awe over Barack wont call it communism but that's what it will be but they wont have any problems going along with it. I hate to break it to you there buddy but people have been hugely misled by their leaders before. Anytime you have a fresh face who reaks, leaks and speaks nothing but charisma you have a hugely misled population. They hang on their everyword and do everything he says with no problem.

 

The world has been forming "unions" for quite some time now so it's just a matter of when, not if, the US forms one with Canada and Mexico and a one world government is formed. The President of the US is referred to as the leader of the free world ALOT, so go figure that Obama is charismatic and will deceive and I will bet money that a union is formed following this worldwide economical problem.

[Starjumper]

I SAY HURAH FOR THE WHOLE WORLD -GWB WAS THE WORST PRES EVER IN MY EXPERIENCE-

 

Definitely yes on both counts. Bushits the Bankrupter bankrupted every oil company his daddy gave him, he bankrupted the state of Texas while he was Governor, and it was in the green when he started, what did people think he would do to the country?

 

Also they are NOT conservative. Conservative means fiscal and military restraint. Bushits the Bankrupter is the total opposite of fiscal and military restraint, everything he does is designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, and to drive the middle class into the poor section. Conservative has been changed to neo conservative, which really means Christian fundamentalist. They are dividing the country along religious lines, they are dividing the country on purpose, dividing, as in divide and conquer. The original people who came to America came here to get AWAY from the Christian fundamentalists, and they tried to set up a government to keep them from coming into power, with specific instructions to take up arms against them. Alas, the fundamentalist came and took over anyway. THEIR god, HAH!

 

They probably planned this economic crash to hit when the Democrats were elected, so they could blame it on them, but as with everything else, everything Bushits does touches to shit.

 

If there is justice in the world he and his cabinet will be tried for war crimes in a couple of years. They already bought land in Paraguay though, where they are protected from extradition, just in case.

[Bum Grasshopper]

 

Seriously though, we can only do what we've learned to do. So I try not to get too caught up in the whole thing.

 

Not true. We can do what we feel is right. That takes guts.

 

I am not a fan of the American political system. Politicians tell you anything what you want to hear to get elected, then dance around and do whatever they want. George W. is a prime example of what every president has done so far.

 

The saving grace is that it encourages change. The people have spoken, and things will change.

[Pietro]

Impossible? Nope. A nation wide ID system was something never thought of or heard of and many people are still against it but guess what, in 2009 it begins to begin to be implemented. People also think that a draft wont ever happen but a democrat wrote and submitted the bill and a democrat is in the seat again so dont think the US wont have a draft in the next major war. As far as communism goes.

 

 

Hello,

I am trying to understand your point, and I am obviously failing.

You have been asked how do you define a communist state and you mention a nation wide ID system, and the draft (that is, compulsory military service, right?).

 

This is not communism, many countries have a nation wide ID system. Italy has it from ages. When you are 16 you need to have your ID card. So what? It does not seem to make the situation much better or much worse. Nor do I see how it would make it more 'communism'.

 

Then you say that a draft will be a sign of communism. Sorry, no again. Because although you do have countries that call themselves communists (China, Russia pre Gorbachev) which had draft, they by no means are the only ones. Maybe all communists countriests have compulsory military service (maybe, meaning, I don't know), but there are surely plenty of non communists one that have it also. Look at Italy up to 10 years ago, look at Israel. Dictatorships often have draft. In short also draft is by no mean a tell tale of when a state is communist.

 

But now the question arises, what does it mean to be communist. Now I have a political dictionary (not here, but I looked up those words before leaving), and it describes socialism as: to each according to their abilities; and communism as: to each according to their needs. I would say this is the historical definition.

 

Maybe now the meaning have shifted, after all in recent years we had plenty of example of countries which defined themselves as communists and for sure were not following this definition. But still draft and ID seem not a good way to tell.

 

So I would repropose the question that was asked to you:

how do you define a communist state, and how do you define a socialist state?

 

Would you define sweden as a a socialist state, for example?

Would the situation be really that bad if it started to resemble sweedish one?

 

Thanks,

Pietro

[Starjumper]

The draft is a good idea as far as justice and accountability is concerned. When you have things like Bushit's private army of hired goons, used to fight his private war, financed by borrowing from China, then you have less accountability. Using a hired army allows them to commit atrocities that would be difficult to get away with if the army was drafted.

[Eric23]

The draft is a good idea as far as justice and accountability is concerned. When you have things like Bushit's private army of hired goons, used to fight his private war, financed by borrowing from China, then you have less accountability. Using a hired army allows them to commit atrocities that would be difficult to get away with if the army was drafted.

 

The United States Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard are not Bush's, or any other US president's "hired goons." Their salaries are paid by the taxpayers of the US with oversight by Congress.

[Starjumper]

The United States Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard are not Bush's, or any other US president's "hired goons." Their salaries are paid by the taxpayers of the US with oversight by Congress.

 

Yes, but the public is more likely to complain if their children are drafted into an unjust private war whereas if people are hired they lose that leverage.

[Starjumper]

By private army of hired goons I'm also referring to companies like Blackwater and the attrocities that they commit. They hire a lot of poor people from other countries, people that are willing to take risks and follow orders because they are desperate for the money, but they get no benefits like real military retirees get. They aren't as accountable for their atrocities as the 'real' army is. The whole thing is an atrocity though, no matter who does it.

[Aetherous]

Having been overseas, I'm glad the actual military is made up of volunteers and not draftees. Just my opinion. This way we get more intelligent people (a lot of us join for the college money), who actually care about what they're doing (I personally joined after thinking a lot about 9-11 because I thought it'd make a difference in preventing it from happening again).

 

If there was a draft for the "war", I think it'd be a lot more chaotic. People breaking the rules and disrespecting how the whole thing operates. It's bad enough for the ones that volunteer, but being forced to do the stuff that I did....I'd say "hell no!" We are lucky there are a lot of people that volunteer...

 

And yes, private security companies are ridiculous. They make so much money to do it, too. I met a few guys who were pulling in 150,000 for a few months of doing the same exact mission I was. Plus: they got to drink alcohol and basically wear anything they wanted. No fair. We felt like preschoolers, being watched over like hawks by our chain of command. And those contractor guys were like rock stars. It would've been AWESOME to be a contractor.

 

For that very reason, I think they shouldn't be utilized. It just adds to the chaos...and it's true, they aren't that accountable. Although Blackwater did get in trouble, and the company was suspended from Iraq for the 16 dead civilians incident. Who knows what happened with that one...I tend to believe they were actually defending themselves and their VIPs...but who knows.

 

I think we're spending too much money over there. There is no reason to have such extravagant things on bases. No reason for Popeyes chicken stands, or Pizza huts on bases. No reason to have such a huge selection of foods in the dining halls. AND absolutely no good reason why KBR charges over 60 dollars for each bag of laundry to wash, and charges 4 meals each at like 20 dollars per soldier per day....and also having the contractors make so much money. We should be saving all of that. In the past, countries have lost wars (England lost the USA in its battle for independence) because of too much money going elsewhere.

 

Hopefully President Elect Obama keeps that in mind.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Scotty

[hyok]

The US isn't building a billion dollar base in Iraq to just walk away from it. Even if Obama declares a withdrawal, it will only be a partial US military withdrawal with contractor and specific brigades still inside Iraqi points of interest. There will never be a withdrawal in the middle-east. The goal since inception has been removal of unruly dictators from that region and installation of capitalist-friendly regimes as well as installation of permanent launching points for a bigger theatre.

 

Don't be fooled by all the bs coming out of these politicians, no matter how pretty their speeches and words are, identity them by their cabinet choices and the deals they make.

 

Obama has already chosen Zbigniew Brzezinski as his foreign policy adviser, Z. Brzez is a certified Russia-phobe. Read his book The Grand Chessboard and you'll begin to see the long-term plans ahead. The only nation in the world capable of presenting any real threat to the US and the West has always been Russia and that's where all of this is destined to end. Poland is today's Cuban Missile Crisis but there is no JFK in office (or is there?).

 

We'll see what happens in the coming years, but I'm not holding my breath. Globalization and global euthanasia isn't an impossibility. Sometimes it seems like an inevitability, so i'm just enjoying my life since none of it is in our hands at this point anyway, and maybe not even in theirs either.

Edited November 15, 2008 by hyok

[宁]

I'm not by far American, but allow me to make some observation:

- many things that cannot be understood by watching closesly, can become clear from a distance... from where i am, we see the good ol' US of A, in deep shaite and still sinking. very fiew of my countrymen believe that 9-11 was anything by a cynical plot. there are a fiew that can see further and understand the necessity of it.

- no different with the economic failure, still another plot.

- obama is just a necessary puppet

- events of this magnitude aren't left to the mercy of God, or to luck... even less to the "free will of the American people". you know what your problem is, you still live in a dream, the American dream. it's so darn well made-up, that it'd take forever to break out of it. the simplest way is to get out of there.

 

this doesn't mean that conspiracy fans are right. the level of control in our time is just higher that people accept to believe. we have been born in a country that doesn't have the amount of financial power to build a dream of that magnitude, but we've watched it growing, over the years, since the falling of the Red Courtain. some of us get caught in this dream, but most of us still have a sufficient grip to the real world to know what's behind this show.

 

and i have to agree, topics like this, and the penile thing, first on a daoist discussion forum, makes you wonder...

 

i hope i didn't cause any patriotic heartaches

 

L1

[Pietro]

Hi Little1,

I am very interested in this:

...

we have been born in a country that doesn't have the amount of financial power to build a dream of that magnitude, but we've watched it growing, over the years, since the falling of the Red Courtain. some of us get caught in this dream, but most of us still have a sufficient grip to the real world to know what's behind this show.

...

 

Do you think you could expand on this?

In what way you have seen it growing? What do you mean by, some people still have a sufficient grip on the real world.

 

I like what you say, but I don't fully understand. Probably because I was not born behind the red curtain. So if you could give some examples I would be very grateful.

 

Thanks,

Pietro

[YMWong]

Then you say that a draft will be a sign of communism. Sorry, no again. Because although you do have countries that call themselves communists (China, Russia pre Gorbachev) which had draft, they by no means are the only ones. Maybe all communists countriests have compulsory military service (maybe, meaning, I don't know), but there are surely plenty of non communists one that have it also. Look at Italy up to 10 years ago, look at Israel. Dictatorships often have draft. In short also draft is by no mean a tell tale of when a state is communist.

 

Pietro,

 

for your info China DOES NOT have compulsory military service.

The other way round in fact, many young men try to get into the army to get a 'regularly paid job' but are not admitted. Some stay in the army only for 2-3 years to leave and find the job as private guard or the likes.

 

YM

[wudangquan]

China does have compulsory military service, I believe . . .

 

Any freshman entering a university or college has to do military training.

 

Maybe wrong, but it didn't seem like any of my students were doing that willingly.

Edited November 16, 2008 by wudangquan

[YMWong]

China does have compulsory military service, I believe . . .

 

Any freshman entering a university or college has to do military training.

 

Maybe wrong, but it didn't seem like any of my students were doing that willingly.

 

That's "military exercise" and it does not equal military service, it is only marching, short term physical exercise etc. with a final parade. Actually kids do similar stuff, although on a lighter way, since Primary School in China - including marching and National Flag raising.

 

On the paper, I think, military service IS compulsory but this has never been actuated.

 

http://community.travelchinaguide.com/forum2.asp?i=35920

 

YM

[Pietro]

Pietro,

 

for your info China DOES NOT have compulsory military service.

The other way round in fact, many young men try to get into the army to get a 'regularly paid job' but are not admitted. Some stay in the army only for 2-3 years to leave and find the job as private guard or the likes.

 

YM

Thanks,

I stand corrected.

 

Pietro

[宁]

Hi Little1,

I am very interested in this:

Do you think you could expand on this?

In what way you have seen it growing? What do you mean by, some people still have a sufficient grip on the real world.

 

I like what you say, but I don't fully understand. Probably because I was not born behind the red curtain. So if you could give some examples I would be very grateful.

 

Thanks,

Pietro

 

Thanks for your interest Pietro. I was still a little one the days the Red Courtain fell. But I knew enough to at least make some idea of it.

A small example, back in our Red Courtain days, the daily TV program from the ONLY TV station allowed by the gov, consisted in roughly about 2, 2 and a half hours or maybe a little more daily. Mostly communist propaganda, and some old western movies, or else some sovietic war movies. The communist propaganda was everywhere.

Back then most of the people knew that the atheist communist want to enslave their soul and mind. They had their own way to avoid that... some with culture, some with relligion, some practicing something.

The advent of advertising companies, and all the western money-making propaganda, was our gift after the "liberation". It was pretty hard at the beginning, but in time we could also recognize another propaganda, in other terms this time, made up to drain us of blood and money.

So my people went thru this two times at least, and have build up enough suspicion not to belive in fairy dreams. Many of them know that "equalty, fraternity, liberty" are only words that mean nothing to the ones that declare them out loud.

It's almost impossible to make a transfer of experience. It's just nothing new under the sun.

[YMWong]

That's "military exercise" and it does not equal military service, it is only marching, short term physical exercise etc. with a final parade. Actually kids do similar stuff, although on a lighter way, since Primary School in China - including marching and National Flag raising.

 

"Military exercise" of Primary School

 

 

"Military exercise" of High School

 

 

 

"Military exercise" of University

 

 

YM