Orgasm

[hagar]

h

Edited May 25, 2009 by hagar

[sunshine]

Well hagar. In that case all I can say is you are lucky to have such a partner!!!

 

Harry

[Yoda]

Premature ejaculation is normally caused by inadequate exercise. Too much pressure gets built up at the bottom of the spine. So if you wish to avoid the three finger technique, exercise lots. According to an article I read, there seems to be a linear relationship between the amount of exercise one gets and the quality of one's sex life. Plato has recommended Sonnon's Freedom by Degree material to this end in the past.

 

The main problem with the three finger technique is that there is still a certain amount of energy loss associated with it. I'm not sure how much, though. If done correctly, sperm will not enter the bladder, so there's no loss of fluid essence.

 

Lozen--interesting re: sexual activity and creativity. It would be interesting to experiment with being sexually active while refraining from orgasm to see what happens.

 

Mbanu--I thought slaying the red dragon was as easy as daily nipple stimulation. That the effect was very easy to acheive, but perhaps not worth doing in terms of the health and energy benefits.

 

-Yoda

[hagar]

h

Edited May 25, 2009 by hagar

[VCraigP]

Wow, what a discussion.

Sometimes the way the forum is set up works really well. Though it is harder to respond to and individual and create a thread down from a response.

 

I aim to discuss further what has been brought up about Female side of the sexual practices.

 

One common thread I see when discussing the Sexual practices is the emphasis by some of the alchemical transmutation of sexual energy, and others stay on a much more physical plane when discussing these things.

 

With regards to the concept of slaying the red dragon. It is certainly not for me to say what the best approach is for any woman, being as I am a man.

However I have studied this material for a long time so I am going to discuss my idea based on intellectual transmission of theory, as opposed to true EXPERIENCE, which is the most important palce to come from when teaching or even discussing such things.

 

Just as with seminal retention the eventual goal should be to move beyond physical manipulation of the body to the actual extraction and transmutation of essence out of the physical/jing level into chi....etc.

 

With the womens practice the idea of ovarian breathing is to first make a connection with this vital energy. The goal is to extract the vital essence from the eggs to transmute into energy which is recycled back into the body on the chi level to eventually fuel the shen level.

 

It has been expressed that some (Lozen I think) feel that this process of intentionally slaying the Red Dragon is artificial and incorrect practice.

 

I would suggest that one look at both ends of the spectrum.

one end is leaving things as they are and having "Normal" menstruation.

The other end of the spectrum would be the employment of various practices with the express purpose of stopping menstruation.

 

It would seem that whether one is opposed to altogether stopping menstruation or not, that the value of recycling ones energy should be recognized. The theory is that through the practice of ovarian breathing one should be able to activate the connection to the eggs and to extract the essence, in part, to recirculate in the energy body as more chi. AS a corrollary to this effect of chi circulation is that since energy is being moved from that system one of the effects should be the balancing of the menstrual cycle if there are imbalances. Also along the spectrum of fully stopping the cycle is the effect of reducing the duration and amount of menstrual flow, which is an indication of success with energy recycling. Also less blood loss should, I think be a desireable result. Of course the point that the flow results in detoxification of impurities is well expressed and certainly valid, to a point.

 

Eventually detoxification could occur more effectively through alchemical practices.

 

So the point I am trying to make here is that rejection of the concept of female sexual energy practice in toto may be missing the benefits which may be derived while not going to the extreme of complete cessation of menstruation.

 

I believe Ken Cohens warnings on the subject are somewhat accurate for the lay practitioner. Erring on the side of caution on this subject. However in the perspective of achieving fuel for the alchemical process I feel he is avoiding this subject. It is a cautious and responsible position to take.

Remember, as Michael Winn often points out, there is a big difference between pursuing chikung and Taoist practice for health and longevity and pursuing the same for the purpose of Alchemy. It is a different level of committment.

 

Again, the same point needs to be reiterated for men. Complete cessation of ejaculation is an extreme position and one should understand what it implies and what the ramifications of this approach are. along the spectrum towards cessation is the very healthy idea of reduction of ejaculation, and the recycling of energy before during and after coitus.

 

Recycling of the energy is the first part, which in my opinion is a very good idea. How far along that spectrum you go is up to you, and understanding what to do when you get further along is very important.

 

All for now. Happy sexual play to you all whether single, dual or multiple combinations.

 

Craig

[Lozen]

Honestly, stopping a very natural and beautiful cycle that keeps me in tune with the rhythmns of the earth and my own rhythmns is way down at the bottom of my things to consider list.

 

Is this really about living longer? If women want to live longer they can take antioxidants, excercise more, quit smoking, eat organic, maximize bone density throguh load bearing excercises and calcium-rich food and herbs, spend time outdoors, learn how to fight, etc. etc.

 

If you can find someone who knows how to stop menstruation in a safe manner, it can add years to your life.

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[Lozen]

Can't you recycle your energy without trying to stop menstruation? Since it is WASTE MATERIAL, why not try to stop shitting or pissing so you can recycle that energy? That makes just as little sense to me.

 

If women are interested in having better cycles, there is a lot they can do, many excercises for liver, not wearing tampons is a good idea, lots of herbs and foods are helpful.

 

I wasn't rejecting the concept of female sexual energy practice--I just wonder if stopping menstruation is really the practice or if guys just think that because they think blood is gross or (consciously or not) are intimidated by women's cycles and women's power. Why is it that so many NA tribes will not let women who are menstruating into mixed ceremonies? It isn't because they are dirty or impure.

 

Also I was hoping someone could please explain to me what does menstruation have to do with sex? In fact, many Taoists, Native American tribes and orthodox Jews *refrain* from sex during menstruation. See http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm#Niddah

[RON JEREMY]

Can't you recycle your energy without trying to stop menstruation? Since it is WASTE MATERIAL, why not try to stop shitting or pissing so you can recycle that energy? That makes just as little sense to me.

 

If women are interested in having better cycles, there is a lot they can do, many excercises for liver, not wearing tampons is a good idea, lots of herbs and foods are helpful.

 

I wasn't rejecting the concept of female sexual energy practice--I just wonder if stopping menstruation is really the practice or if guys just think that because they think blood is gross or (consciously or not) are intimidated by women's cycles and women's power. Why is it that so many NA tribes will not let women who are menstruating into mixed ceremonies? It isn't because they are dirty or impure.

 

Also I was hoping someone could please explain to me what does menstruation have to do with sex? In fact, many Taoists, Native American tribes and orthodox Jews *refrain* from sex during menstruation. See http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm#Niddah

6188[/snapback]

 

LOOK ME ALREADY WENT OVER THIS IN DA PAST, VIZ.,

SHIT VS. PISS:

SHIT BE *OUTSIDE* METTER THAT GO THRU DA DIGESTIVE SYSTEM N GET DEPPRIVED O USEFUL METTERIAL N GET DISCARDED, VS.

PISS BE *ONES OWN BLOOD* THAT GET DISCARDED TO ACCHIEVE SUM TEMPORRARY BLOOD BALLENCE.

SO SHIT BE USELESS OR POISONOUS (MOSTLY, EXCEPT *MINE*), WHILE PISS HAVE A LOTTA USEFUL BLOOD CUM-PONNENTS N ANTIBODIES, ENXYMMES, HORMONES ETC. INFACT ME DRINK MINE OWN PISS BIG TIME, WANNA A SIP?

 

IN DA LIKE MENNER, MENSYTRUAL BLOOD BE A BIG WASTE. BUT ALSO BECCAUSE DA EGG BE ACTUUALY DA METTERIAL PART O A HUMMAN BEIN, WHAT YA HAVE THERE BE A PSYCHIC RESSIDUE WHICH BE LIKE A PSYCCHIC CADDAVER. THAT BE DA REASON WHY TRADDITIONA CULTURES STAY AWWAY FROM WOMEN DURIN THOSE TIMES CUZ ONE CAN CATCH A PSYCHCIS INFECTION, ESPECIALLY MEN WHO PRACTICE ASCETISM N WHO ARE MORE SENSIBLE TO THOSE THANGS.

 

AS FAS AS BEIN INTIMMIDITED BY WOMMENS POWER THAT BE INCORECT, IT BE LIKE SAYIN ONE STAY AWAY FROM A WOMAN WITH DA FLU BECAUSE ONE BE AFFRAID O WOMMENS POWER, THAT BE STOOPID TO SAY THAT.

 

ONCE A GUY PRACTICE SEMMEN RETTENTION, ONE WONT BE VULNERABLE TO JAKSHIT SEXUALLY SO ONE NEED NOT BE AFFRAID O WOMMEN. BUT IF SUMTHANG BE HARMFUL PSYCHYLLY SUCH AS PUSY BLOOD, ONE ACCORDIN TO TRUTH SHOULD SPEAK SO.

 

ALSO WOMEN BE REALY NOT THAT MUCH INTO ASCETISM CUZ THEY IN DA LAST ANNALYSIS HAVE AN INVINCIBLE INSTINCT TOWARD REPRUDDUCTION N BEARIN BABIES SO IT BE UNDERSTANDIBLE THAT DA CUM-CEPT O EGG RETTENTION DONT AGGREE WITH A CHICK'S BRAIN.

 

BUT THAT DONT MEAN IT BE WRONG TO DO IT.

 

RJ KONG YU MING

[VCraigP]

Yes you can recycle your energy without trying to stop menstruation. In fact exercises such as ovarian breathing do just that. It takes a great deal of will and specific intention/practice to stop menstruation.

 

I think you are staying too physically focused here. The basic concept of sperm retention/sexual energy cultivation for males is to recycle energy from the sperm, not the sperm or prostatic fluid itself. Likewise the taoist theory is that men lose most energy from ejaculation and women lose most energy through menstruation.

Both of these sources can be tapped for energy recycling without stopping the natural process.

 

Again, I am not a woman, nor am I even acquainted with any who have achieved no menstruation through practice. Though I did have a brief encounter, in a group, with a Taoist nun who gave some advice on this practice.

 

Of course there are many other things women can do to help themselves. That is entirely beside the point.

 

The Taoist's look at every aspect of life and try to analyze what is its nature, what is the energy dynamic. From that perspective they try to maximize the lifeforce and minimize health draining activities.

 

Please refer to my comments again about extreme positions. It is one extreme seek complete cessation of menstruation. However there is a lot of room in between to cultivate sexual energy and recycle energy which is otherwise lost in the blood during the cycle. This won't result in immediate cessation of menstruation but will result if properly done in increased recycling of energy.

 

What does menstruation have to do with sex. I am of the opinion that it is a bad idea to have sex during menses. It definitely goes against the energy the woman is going through at the time. During this time I think it is an excellent time for quiet contemplation and self healing, not sex.

 

Again, don't get stuck onthe physical concept of stopping menstruation as the goal of energy recycling for women. With that said, there are many women in the Tao community who have improved their vitality through these practices.

 

Craig

 

 

Can't you recycle your energy without trying to stop menstruation? Since it is WASTE MATERIAL, why not try to stop shitting or pissing so you can recycle that energy? That makes just as little sense to me.

 

If women are interested in having better cycles, there is a lot they can do, many excercises for liver, not wearing tampons is a good idea, lots of herbs and foods are helpful.

 

I wasn't rejecting the concept of female sexual energy practice--I just wonder if stopping menstruation is really the practice or if guys just think that because they think blood is gross or (consciously or not) are intimidated by women's cycles and women's power. Why is it that so many NA tribes will not let women who are menstruating into mixed ceremonies? It isn't because they are dirty or impure.

 

Also I was hoping someone could please explain to me what does menstruation have to do with sex? In fact, many Taoists, Native American tribes and orthodox Jews *refrain* from sex during menstruation. See http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm#Niddah

6188[/snapback]

[Lozen]

Menstruation is a SPIRITUAL thing. Women in moon time in many NA tribes were not let into mixed ceremonies, not because they were impure, but because they were in their time of power. Several Taoist books I have read say women lose most energy through having too many children, not through menstruating. Tonify and nourish liver, blood and yin.

[RON JEREMY]

What does menstruation have to do with sex.  I am of the opinion that it is a bad idea to have sex during menses.  It definitely goes against the energy the woman is going through at the time.  During this time I think it is an excellent time for quiet contemplation and self healing, not sex.

 

 

 

Craig

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WELL NO, FROM DA BITCHES POINTAVIEW, WHEN THEY BLEED THEY GET HORNEY AS HELL, HOW-EVER, FROM DA MOFOS POINTA VIEW, IT BE DAMN YUKKY TO STICK ONES CLEAN SALAMI INTO THAT SCAREY BLODDY MESS, NOT TO MENTION EATIN DA BITHES PUSY WHEN SHE BLEED, AARRGGHH (EXCEPT THAT FAGS LIKE SHIEKKY N SPYRROLEX LUV TO DO JUST THAT AS WELL AS EATIN SHIT), SO YA MAY ASK WHATS LEFT??

WELL LEMME TELL YA, IT BE CALLED *BUNGA-HOWL SEX*!!

EXACTOMUNDO WATSON!! YA GOT IT RIGHT!!! WHEN THEY BELLD N THEY GET HORNEY LIKE HELL N THEM PUSY ITCH LIKE A PORCUPINE, JUST BANG EM IN DA ARSE-HOWL N LET EM BEAT UP THEM CLIT WHILE YA STAY AWAY FROKM THEM MESS, ET VOILA LES JEUX SONT FAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

AARRGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[peter falk]

WELL NO, FROM DA BITCHES POINTAVIEW, WHEN THEY BLEED THEY GET HORNEY AS HELL,

 

i've never known a chinese chick who wants sex when they're having their period. they all think its evil, or something. and i've only ever been able to talk one of them into it, and she was horny everywhere all the time, even on buses and airplanes. notcher traditional chinese girl........

[peter falk]

It's possible to stop menstruation safely, the biggest problem is that there aren't too many people around who know the techniques.

 

It's sort of like a guy trying to go celibate through sheer force of will without any pointers like a lot of monks used to do and ending up with prostatitis or weird fetishes that involve having young girls pee on his face; it's not because celibacy is inherently unhealthy, it's because they're not going about it the right way, sorta like trying to keep water from coming out a garden hose by sticking your finger in the nozzle.

 

If you can find someone who knows how to stop menstruation in a safe manner, it can add years to your life.

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i believe the practice is called "slaying the red dragon." i know a woman in sichuan who has accomplished this. at least she says she has; i'm not spying on her one amonth to find out. the practice developed because wopmen lose a lot of jing at this time. the only time they do i think.

 

maneewan chia may have done something with this. i never read the women's book she wrote on sexology.

[peter falk]

Menstruation is a SPIRITUAL thing. Women in moon time in many NA tribes were not let into mixed ceremonies, not because they were impure, but because they were in their time of power. Several Taoist books I have read say women lose most energy through having too many children, not through menstruating. Tonify and nourish liver, blood and yin.

6191[/snapback]

 

yeah, but in many other tribes it was because they were impure. ya can't just select the stuff you agreewith and that makes you feel good. ya gotta look at all of it.

 

i'm a guy so i dunno what its like to menstruate. i'm just looking att it as scientifically as i can. and when it comes to shit like this, there'sa lot of politics disguised as science (including psychic or spirtiual science) such chauvinism and feminism. if we are inclined toward one or the other, it will cloud our scientific understanding of the issue.

 

my advice is that you explore the subjuect on a deep and practical level by engaging in the practices, journaling them, and reporting back to us your findings. sure it may take years and sure zekeriah sitchens 12th planet my collide with the earth and kill us all bewfore you get to your final conclusions. but we'll all learn a lot in the meantime.

[Lozen]

yeah, but in many other tribes it was because they were impure.  ya can't just select the stuff you agreewith and that makes you feel good.  ya gotta look at all of it.

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Fair enough, but I have never heard of this. Which tribes?

[Lozen]

It DOES help alleviate cramps, though.

 

i've never known a chinese chick who wants sex when they're having their period.  they all think its evil, or something.  and i've only ever been able to talk one of them into it, and she was horny everywhere all the time, even on buses and airplanes.  notcher traditional chinese girl........

6196[/snapback]

[sunshine]

i believe the practice is called "slaying the red dragon."  i know a woman in sichuan who has accomplished this.  at least she says she has; i'm not spying on her one amonth to find out.  the practice developed because wopmen lose a lot of jing at this time. the only time they do i think.

 

maneewan chia may have done something with this.  i never read the women's book she wrote on sexology.

6197[/snapback]

 

According to Michael W Maneewan wasn't really that much into the practices, if I got ir right from his webside. He even said somewhere that it was purely for marketing reasons to put her name on a book.

 

Regarding stopping menstruation:

I thought it was meant to much easier than semen retention, basically circling the breasts and that's it... could never try though...

 

Harry

[RON JEREMY]

It DOES help alleviate cramps, though.

6200[/snapback]

 

 

HERE I AM BABE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sunshine]

I think you are staying too physically focused here.  The basic concept of sperm retention/sexual energy cultivation for males is to recycle energy from the sperm, not the sperm or prostatic fluid itself.  Likewise the taoist theory is that men lose most energy from ejaculation and women lose most energy through menstruation.

Both of these sources can be tapped for energy recycling without stopping the natural process.

Craig

6190[/snapback]

 

Craig. I am not that sure that you are right here. While it is said that the semen energy vibrates and can be circulated through the Orbit or whatever the intention sure is NOT to loose the substance... Stephen T. Chang compares one portion of semen to nutrients gotten from (let me quickly look it up): Here it goes. He says that this is according to scientific evalutation:

one portion of ejaculate is as nutrient dense as

two steaks, 10 eggs, 6 oranges & two citrus

 

the idea behind not ejaculating is that the semen actually gets broken down & its nutrients reabsorbed... at least that is how I understand it...

 

Harry

[hagar]

h

Edited May 25, 2009 by hagar

[Yoda]

You can use a tampon and wipe everything down for clean oral sex during menstration. Iron is good for you!

 

It's interesting that very passionate athletes often stop ejaculating or having menses. They instinctively know that they need to save their energy.

 

I'm sure there are super athletes who ejaculate and have their periods too. I'm thinking of Dragan and Steve Maxwell who have superhuman energy levels in their 50s and they say they have very normal, natural sex lives. Steve's says his secrets are: lots of exercise, lots of Warrior Wellness type drills (he got from Pavel, Sonnon, and Furey) and tons of supplements. Dragan says his secret is 30-45 minutes a day of vigorous daily dumbell work (google the dragan challenge for details). Neither mentioned retention as a key.

 

So don't make too much of this debate.

 

Having said that, retention is vital to enhance any taoist practice.

 

Sure it's superior to make love in the spirit of 100% passion and spontaneity as long as you don't blow your load!

 

Ron's three pillars: alternate, circulate, and hit the brakes practice is the key to safe sex. So be passionate but if you get into any sort of trouble with the practice go right back to the physical basics to find the answer.

 

The three finger technique is not very sexy. If you can use other techniques like breathing, slowing, and simply relaxing definitely do them. But if you find yourself having miscalculated on the old PONR then reach for the hand brakes. That way you'll be right back on that horndogger trail without deficit spending or a 24hour+ refractory period.

 

Bless their hearts, but most women have no idea what's up with this situation and you should splash holy water on them if they want you to blow your brains out in the name of love. As master Ron has said, ejaculation for the purpose other than having kids is an unnatural perversion of the human energy system. As Osho says, ejaculation isn't satisfying it's just a release of pressure that the man believed to be uncomfortable in the first place. That pressure, that horniness, is actually your best friend. That lust will be your light long after you and your lady have parted ways in this life or the next.

 

If the pressure feels shitty that means that you have have neglected your circulation practice and need to exercise more. On retreat, Osho threw his students into the mosh pit 3 hours a day! He says that men rely on orgasm to move through the stagnation they feel due to lack of exercise, but it's a bum steer in the long run.

 

-Yoda

[spyrelx]

First -- Yoda, who is this Osho guy? First I thought you were talking about a famous Haiku poet but now I doubt it. What are you quoting from.

 

Second, -- Harry,

 

Stay away from the three finger method, particularly if you've already messed up your urethra. Instead I'd just gently massage the area from time to time to make sure circulation is good there and to heal your tubes.

 

The 3 finger method is NOT designed to keep your semen in after your prostate is already firing to send it out. It IS designed to stop the build up to ejaculation (if done in time). It doesn't work by blocking tubes so much as by stimulating (or de-stimulating) nerves. The blocking tube method is the "one dollar point". Basically trying to pinch a hose after the water's been turned on. It might keep the liquid in, but it's not doing you much good.

 

If premature ejaculation is the problem, you need to deal more with breath work and backing off from stimulation and also focusing on the spine/head. I'd also throw in physicality. E.g., stand while you're fucking (or solo practicing) and/or move vigorously (not your hand, your hips) and make some noise. This will draw more energy/blood away from your penis (and also root you more).

[peter falk]

Fair enough, but I have never heard of this. Which tribes?

6199[/snapback]

 

i don't have my refereences handy here in china, but i think the ojibwe were one. this came up at a meeting where an ojibwe medicine man was present and several tribes were discussing cultural differences. the ojibwe women were expected to live in moon lodges during menstrual periods to avoid harming the rest of the tribe with negative energy.

 

i'm not sure about the souix, but a lakota woman i know well has been very disillusioned by the extreme chauvinism and patriarchy of the souix that gives medieval christians a good name. i can't remember anything specific about moontime.

[Yoda]

Basically in most traditions, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, you name it, menstration is disrespected as being unclean to keep girl power damped down. Had they kept their sperm, they wouldn't have felt threatened and wouldn't have dissed the sistas.

 

Osho is the Bagwan!

 

If you've had prostate problems, stay away from the 3 finger technique.

 

-Yoda

[Lozen]