Orgasm

[peter falk]

Good for you. I have a friend who's been lurking on these forums for as long as I've been posting, who's been practicing taiji since she was a child, who has a lot to say and offer, who has  not and will not post because of people trying to have it both ways. And she's not a feminist.

6290[/snapback]

 

that's fine. that's her choice to make. there is nothing the tao excludes. i hope that if she has something of value to share with us she will. i also hope she sees the value in things she doesn't currently see it in.

 

in the bible, jesus hung out with the prostitutes and the tax collectors, for which he was reviled by many important religious leaders of his day. he also knew the law better than many of those same leaders, for which they reviled him even more. now i'm not likening us to jesus, or saying that there is anything inherently virtuous in prostitution or robbing people of the fruits of their labor. i'm just saying that there is more to things than we often realize. sometimes the sacred is found in the midst of the profane, and vice versa. sometimes, what we think is profane is really sacred, and again vice versa. i'm not going to claim the infinite wisdom it takes to know the difference. i'm going with it and i'll learn on the way.

 

just think, jesus could've been a guy like ron jeremy. oh no, wait, ron doesn't like tax collectors

[Lozen]

It is really great that you can try to find some kind of esoteric meaning or some kind of hidden sacred clues in something that only you can understand. My point is that the so-called "sacredness" you're referring to is creating a space in a forum that keeps some people silenced. You can call it their choice (very individualist--how Taoist is that) but truth is we are all responsible for this space that we cocreate and the effect it has on other people. And we all experience the repurcussions of it (in this case, by what we're missing out on). And this isn't just about this one person, I am sure there is more than one. Why is it that 95% of the people that post on here are guys? Is that a coincidence? Are there really THAT many more men interested in this subject matter? Where is the oh-so-Taoist balance? I know that I myself have self-censored on this board a LOT in a way that I wouldn't do in a board that is less macho, or "profanely sacred", or whatever you want to call it (if anybody knows less "profanely sacred" forums please let me know!).

 

Jesus may have hung out with prostitutes and tax collecters, but I doubt people felt uncomfortable speaking around him because of how they knew he would react. Jesus also had a very specific mission and reasons for doing what he was doing, that went beyond "it feels good" or "I feel like it" or "it's my own personal brand of medicine"--he actually maybe considered the effects his actions had on other people. So I don't think the belief that there may be more to things than we think about is a very practical excuse, nor does it liken anyone to Jesus (*you* made the comparison, even though you said you didn't intend to in the next breath.)

 

Anyways, I am done wasting my breath with this thread. Some people will never get it.

[Trip]

Lozen,

 

Ron has made me laugh more in the last seven years than anyone I know. Real laughter, big laughter, tan tien laughter. And that, me thinks, is more valuable than all the highly intelligent comments posted on all these boards put together.

 

Please don't tempt us by hinting at the quality of your thought which we're missing because you self censor. Personally, I enjoy what you write, but your self censorship is just that, YOUR self censorship. Ron doesn't have that problem and you might wonder why you do.

 

I would also respectfully suggest you could seize this opportunity and learn how to ignore without resorting to "Ignore." Then you would have got something from RJ too.

 

Trip

[RON JEREMY]

Lozen,

 

Ron has made me laugh more in the last seven years than anyone I know. Real laughter, big laughter, tan tien laughter. And that, me thinks, is more valuable than all the highly intelligent comments posted on all these boards put together.

 

Please don't tempt us by hinting at the quality of your thought which we're missing because you self censor. Personally, I enjoy what you write, but your self censorship is just that, YOUR self censorship. Ron doesn't have that problem and you might wonder why you do.

 

I would also respectfully suggest you could seize this opportunity and learn how to ignore without resorting to "Ignore." Then you would have got something from RJ too.

 

Trip

6299[/snapback]

 

 

GET BACK TO DA *CHES GAME* MUTHAFUKA OR IT'LL EX-PIRRRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RON JEREMY]

Why is it that 95% of the people that post on here are guys?

 

Anyways, I am done wasting my breath with this thread. Some people will never get it.

6298[/snapback]

 

N YA CALL FAGS LIKE SPYRROLEX OR/N SHIEKKY, *GUYS*???

THEY BE FAGS, NOT GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

LOOK LETS BE HONNEST, DA ONLY UNDERSTANDIN BETTWEEN MEN N WOMMEN CAN OCUR IN ONLY ONE BETTWEEN TWO (2) WAYS, VIZ.:

1) EITTHER IN DA RELLATION-SHIP BETTWEEN MUM N SON,

OR (EXCLUSIVE GODDAMNIT ME HOPE!!)

2) IN A SERIOUS FUCK RELLATIONSHIP

 

THATS IT!!!

 

NO UNDERSTANDIN CAN OCUR OTTHERWISE, N I TELL YA MORE, I ADVOCATE 100% APPARTHEID BETTWEEN MEN N WOMMEN!!!

 

ME THINK WOMMEN SHOULD HAVE A SEPPERETE FORRUM FROM MEN!!!

WE DONT WANNA HERE ABOUT HOW GOOD YER PUSY BLOOD TASTE N YA DONT WANNA WATCH MINE COOL PR0N!!! SO LETS HAVE 2 SEPPERETE FORRUMS!!!

 

 

BUT THEN WE CAN GO OUT ON SATTURDAY NITES N BANG DA LIVIN HELL OUTTA EACH OTHER N DO SUM DUAL CULTIVVATION!!!

 

 

CANT YA SEE THAT IN DA PAST WHEN MEN N WOMMEN LIVED SEPPERETE THEY WERE A LOTTA MORE HORNEY N A LOTTA MORE RESPECT-FULL O EACH OTTHER??

N NOW-A-DAYS WHEN THEY JUST PRETTEND TO LIVE LIKE BUDIES N COMRADES, THEY PLAIN HATE EACH OTTHER N WASTE TIME IN STOOPID CUM-PETTITIONS???

 

DA RESSULT O THIS SO-CALED EQUALLITY HAVE BEEN ONLY DA INVASION O FAGGINESS INTO OUR LIVES N DA LOSS O SEXUAL CHI. FUK ALL THAT!!!

SEXUAL APPERTHAID NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

RJ

[Trip]

Yeah I forgot, I also luv kicking Ron's butt around the chessboard and he luv doing the same. So if you're looking for a mate, come to http://www.taobum.com/ronnietsu/webchess/, now featuring a cool shit-for-chat feature that should appeal to the loquacious.

[Lozen]

Oh for crying out loud. I wasn't hinting at the quality of my thought which you're missing. I was pointing out that the effects of quote unquote "sacred" profanity metered out to all people whether they want it or not. I am sure I self-censor a LOT LESS than many people reading this a lot of whom (like my friend) probably don't post at all. I don't really care whether you are laughing because of Ron or think he walks on water. I personally feel differently and luckily there are lists I'm on where people speak freely without having to worry too much about the aftermath. I was just pointing out the effect of it, but obviously some people don't care about the effects of their actions on other people and are more interested in their own personal enjoyment. Good for you. A nice selfish way to live.

 

I belong to a sacred fire community that holds fire circles and we tell a lot of jokes. We also tell a lot of raunchy jokes. We make sure to do this after dark, around people that are comfortable with it and when there are no children present. It wasn't always this way, but the jokes became an issue, and we had to choose between losing valuable members (mostly mothers) and telling jokes. So we came up with a compromise. One thing about the sacred that I think is really important is this thing called TIMING.

 

We were telling obscene goddess stories in my women's group the other night. It was great. We were rolling on the floor with stories about Baubo and Coyote Dick. These are stories, though, that are meant to be discussed in small groups and only among women. In fact I don't think I would tell them around a man unless it was a highly unusual circumstance. I have tried to share these types of stories with men before and they look at me very confused, whereas women will nod their heads and say "i know exactly what you mean!" before bursting into fits of uproarious laughter. The point is that these stories are medicine, and it is best to give medicine to the right person, under the right circumstance, with appropriate timing, etc. etc. instead of slipping it in everyone's drink or posting it as a response to every single post on a board. Which part of this isn't really obvious?

 

If someone is uncomfortable speaking or is walking out of your sacred ceremony because you told a joke that offended them, then you BOTH fucked up. Them for letting that ruin the experience for them, and you for having inappropriate timing. Honestly one would think that people who are interested in Taoism and spirituality would understand this very basic concept that it's not a dichotomy, you don't have to choose between a) well it was that person's fault for walking out and it was their fault for not creating an environment that was welcoming. Obviously it's not one or the other, there is a dance or interplay going on and ideally it would be a balanced, harmonious one instead of a pre-adolescent blame game. "No, it's HER fault for walking out/self-censoring/whatever." "No, it's THEIR fault for being inappropriate" etc. etc. etc.

 

I honestly don't know why I'm wasting any more time than I already have on this thread. If you don't understand what I'm saying then you probably never will.

 

I can also honestly say that on ignore or off ignore, I've never gotten anything productive from what RJ has said. I find it distracting, obnoxious and frankly, boring. I will say that I try not to let obnoxious, distracting, boring and obscene jokes ruin my participation in something otherwise enjoyable, but to pretend it doesn't have an effect on anybody is silly.

 

Moving onwards.

 

Lozen,

 

Ron has made me laugh more in the last seven years than anyone I know. Real laughter, big laughter, tan tien laughter. And that, me thinks, is more valuable than all the highly intelligent comments posted on all these boards put together.

 

Please don't tempt us by hinting at the quality of your thought which we're missing because you self censor. Personally, I enjoy what you write, but your self censorship is just that, YOUR self censorship. Ron doesn't have that problem and you might wonder why you do.

 

I would also respectfully suggest you could seize this opportunity and learn how to ignore without resorting to "Ignore." Then you would have got something from RJ too.

 

Trip

6299[/snapback]

[Trip]

Hey, now I'm really curious. Tell us one of your obscene goddess stories about Baubo or Coyote Dick, please.

[Lozen]

Hahahaha!! That would be the only thing you'd care about from my entire post. I knew that was going to happen so I only mentioned names of 2 stories from a book I'm constantly raving about which you should be able to easily find if you;ve been paying attention. But the other variations we've heard from lectures from the author herself and other similar stories, are, like I said, to be discussed in small groups of women only, and you won't find them on the web.

[sean]

The point is that these stories are medicine, and it is best to give medicine to the right person, under the right circumstance, with appropriate timing, etc. etc. instead of slipping it in everyone's drink or posting it as a response to every single post on a board. Which part of this isn't really obvious?

I love this stories as medicine concept. Really cool. Native American idea, no?

 

The major difference as I see between the situation you describe and an online forum is that an online forum is relatively public and it's a lot harder to create this sort of context without creating a lot of rules and then many subsequent judgement calls based on these rules which then requires full-time moderation which then requires a lot of full-time moderators, etc. It's really important to me that this forum feel safe for anyone, no matter what their race, age, gender, sexual preferences, religion, political leanings, etc. And at the same time I think that once you start heavily moderating a person's perspective because you find it offensive or annoying you run the risk of sanitizing an environment for the worse.

 

I really do try to strike a balance between these two values here. It's difficult.

 

Also, I personally think something good can come out of being angered, disgusted or bored by another person's words or behavior. Something good can even come out of heated conflict. (Isn't this the belief behind your interest in learning to fight?) Real life, as we all know, isn't always pretty. Why should we even be interested in creating a little private "pretend place" on the internet and decide upon an arbitrary set of rules as to who is crazy and who isn't, who is annoying and who isn't, who is "offensive" and who isn't and moderate and ban ourselves into a "safe space" where no one says anything that might upset anyone?

 

One of the things that turns me off to many "spiritual scenes" is this very lack of realism and an insistence on creating wimpy, stale environments. Many of us here, yourself included, are a little more rough around the edges than your average "happy clouds" new ager. Look at the name of the site. Tao Bums. So really that is the context here. And like every context, it won't be supportive to every single thing. There will be things that just won't be that well received here. People too sensitive to cope with humor you'd find in your local dive bar are probably going to get offended and not really dig it. And every online forum I've ever been too, hell any group of people I've ever been around is like this. Try going over to Bullshido and use the word "Chi" once in a post and you will get made fun of by like 10 guys, any one of which could probably beat you up. But things also change. Maybe if a dozen PhD'd grapplers who also did Taoist meditation began posting extremely intelligent articles on Bullshido about what Chi is and how it can help anyone's practice that forum's culture would change.

 

So in this vein I say have your values. But allow them to be tested. "Only the truth shall remain" anyway, right?. I think it's great how you stick up for yourself here and don't take any shit. Keep at it. Be the "better person" and show us what she looks like. Argue your points if need be. Get your punches in when needed. Ignore whomever you feel like as neccessary. Hell, invite women here that have issues with men that will pick on and harrass us guys here. Seriously. That'd make things really interesting.

 

 

Sean.

[Lozen]

For the record, I am not advocating rules, censorship or heavy moderation. I was trying to point out the irony in dissing feminism but being okay with the type of behavior that encourages feminism. Does that make sense? I do the same thing when I meet women who are like, "Gosh, I wish I could find a nice guy who isn't an asshole" and then will bite the head off of any guy that tries to open a door for them, cos they can do it themselves...

 

If we are going to diss modern values re: feminism, etc. we need to remember that back before feminism, there was a great respect for women and their modesty. I remember watcing an old 1966 movie Walk, Don't Run, in whih one of the characters caught boarders just *speculating* about her as a sexual prospect, and when they got caught they were terribly ashamed and basically plied her with presents and apologies for the rest of the movie. Feminism has a lot to do with deciding old school demonstrations, rules and codes of conduct were sexist, and so they got rid of them.

 

The point I was trying to make is that I don't think you can have it both ways--the abolishment of male courtesy and the rise of feminism go hand in hand. So if Peter Falk wants to tell dirty jokes at rituals and play butt-touching games in mixed company, he is in some ways (consciously or not) playing into the pattern which includes the opposite extreme of those darned feminists he hates so much.

 

I can't make men treat me or others with courtesy or respect whether in person on online. They are the ones who are responsible for that. I think the two extremes are radical egalitarians who will tell men who are respectful that they are being overprotective, whi equate male gentleness/protectiveness with subordination and between conservatives who encourage boorishness because "boys will be boys" and equate male gentleness/protectiveness as effeminate. Both are wrong. Men should be respectful of women. That's part of what it means to be a man. So women are refusing to be women and men are refusing to be men, has this made things any better?

 

So I guess this is where I am at... I think that feminism has issues in that it blames all unhappiness on patriarchy and they need to really look at other causes... But I really like Wendy Shalit's writing and in it she encourages conservatives to take the claims of feminist seriously--ALL of them--from date rape figures to anorexia to the number of women who say they feel objectified, to stop saying that they are exaggerating or the charge is false or they are too sensitive or they need to just get over it... It doesn't matter if one study is flawed, the same vague yet unmistakable problem she says is still with us--women are unhappy with their bodies, with sexual encounters, with the way men treat them, etc. I think people should really listen to these claims instead of saying "well screw your feminist friends" and "that's their choice if they feel that way" etc. etc. etc. I think that these problems are a product or an expression of a society that has lost respect for female modesty...

 

I could go on and on and on about this for longer than anyone would care to read, but to sum it up I will say that the idea that male courtesy is oppressive is so embedded into our culture that girls are taught to be polite and boys aren't. Then when boys sodomize girls on playgrounds, everyone is shocked and wonders why can't boys be more civilized. Then come the feminists to fight oppression in ways that are often stifling and overly serious. Then guys get pissed off and say feminists are too uptight and women were never oppressed in the old days and go on to treat women in ways that are very different from how women were treated in the old days... Then women get pissed and on and and on and on. I'm just trying to point out this cycle. Not censor anybody.

[GrandTrinity]

Keep it nc 17, remember?

[Trip]

Really, Lozen, you do go on!

 

Must I have been "paying attention" to post to you? (Sorry, I haven't.)

 

When I ask about the one thing you wrote I found of interest, you stick your tongue out and laugh. But a great deal of what you say isn't as "really obvious" as you'd like.

 

For example, in your first paragraph you write you "don't really care" whether or not I enjoy Ron's posts. You PERSONALLY feel different and are pointing out "THE effect" Ron has in this forum. It seems I am being selfish.

 

You also write that "luckily there are lists [you're] on where people speak freely without having to worry too much about the aftermath," and miss entirely the irony that you would remove this forum from that category, at least from Ron's point of view.

 

Meanwhile, you belong to a "sacred fire community that holds fire circles" (oh my!). And you tell "a lot of raunchy jokes" (oh no!). But you do this in an appropriate way (okay!) because you have learned THIS REALLY IMPORTANT THING about the SACRED called "timing."

 

Please. The sacred supports the points you're making the same way God supports the fundamentalists (west or east).

 

As I said, I enjoy reading what you write (as I come across it, no more homework please) but that's because you're an obviously intelligent person working through their issues, spiritual and (mostly) profane. Actually, I think you're a lot like Ron. And I'll repeat my request that you share with us some of those stories that we can't find in books or on the Internet. I'd be very surprised if anything you could write would shock us.

 

Enjoy, enjoy.

 

Trip

[Lozen]

Heh heh, that is funny. I don't think RJ cares about aftermath, he's not the only person reading though. Like I said I wasn't advocating censorship, just that maybe people might think about the effects of their words on other people. Since this is a spiritually-based community... oh forget it. If this isn't obvious no amount of pontificating I could make would help at all. THAT much is obvious.

 

As for the story, hopefully you have by now picked up the ability to use a search engine and find the public stories for yourself. The other ones, and our personal versions and rewrites and interpretations and changes, LIKE I SAID, are meant to be discussed in small groups and I'm not going to write about them. It is not that I am worried about shock value. I just do not care to share something deeply personal with the whole world. And like I said honestly guys wouldn't get the jokes anyway. Believe me I have tried.

[Trip]

Your pontificating and condescension are exactly what make you an attractive target for anyone who enjoys puncturing illusions (and that's not me). Please don't try and go one-up on us, and good luck in your practice.

 

Trip

[lezlie]

After spending some time reading over the majority of this thread, I have a few things to contribute. I'm not going to quote who or what prompted me to these things, because I don't remember...

 

About this 'slaying the red dragon' practice - as a women, it seems interesting to me, and I do plan to find out more about it. Sean has encouraged me on many occasions to learn and use it, since he strongly feels it could possibly help me through the (sometimes) horrific cramps I have. However, this is always forgotten about because on the 3rd day of my period I am overwhelmed by a powerful surge of energy and feeling of being renewed that puts me back into perspective. Perspective that the pain is only temporary and worth the natural cycle my body goes through every month. Perspective that during this time I become accurately aware of my entire body, and I learn things about my body, my emotional boundaries that I would never be able to explore otherwise. I am made aware that limitations I am normally under the influence of, are actually very small and insignificant in the grand scope of things.

 

To give the blokes a little insight to what it's like (for me on average) here is a little breakdown:

 

day one - fatigue, body aches, pain, train of thought fuzzy

day two - residual affects begin to fade

day three - energy levels higher before period started

day four - energy plateaus

 

I always feel stronger every month. I am not attached (consciously) to my menstrual cycle because I want to have children, rather I am attached to it (consciously) because it renews me. I have a friend that lost all of her reproductive organs when she was 21 due to serious injury. She told me on one occasion that she felt like something significant was missing in her life since she didn't go through the monthly cycle anymore. She's had a very hard time, since then, stabilizing her life, her goals, everything. There's a lot more going on with her, that I won't go into, but it is something that she's said about it.

 

The experience is not the same for me every month. Sometimes it's not that painful, somethings it feels awful, but small things can aide in relief, such as avoiding sugar, caffeine, alcohol, and anything that could cause high stress. Certainly, being hungover or having your wisdom teeth pulled can raise the chances for a bad spell or whatever, but the outcome stays constant. I always feel stronger after the initial phase passes.

 

What I am trying to say is - involving your body in a practice that ceases menstruation may very well recycle energy (and be wonderful!), but the sensation is probably not much different from allowing your female body to go through the natural recycling of energy. If a woman is not experiencing the natural sensations then she should examine diet, exercise, and all of the supplements she is ingesting.

 

As far as sex during menstruation is concerned, for me it does not deplete me of energy at all. It sometimes alleviates cramps. If you have anal sex, you will still get blood all over your penis, so don't think going into a different orifice is going to save you from that. If you are disgusted with menstrual blood, then please do not have sex with a female when she is menstruating. Likely your reactions to things will only cause a negative experience for her. If your opinion of menstruation is that it is a time when the female is not "pure" - you may want to keep that to yourself, or learn a way to express this without sounding like an ass. This statement is not directed at anyone, I'm stating this to possibly avoid some unlucky girl out there have someone make her feel bad about her body.

 

The vaginal blood does not smell the way it does because it is coming from a vagina. It smells the way it does, because it is blood. Blood starts to have a rancid smell when it is allowed to aerate. If a vageen is ultra smelly during the last days of her period is it quite likely she has an infection of some sort.

 

When I think about the ovarian breathing option it seems like something I will be more into exploring when I'm closer to menopause. This could change, I might decide I want to explore it next month... who knows. What I know right now is that today is day one of this month's cycle for me and I can't wait for Monday.

 

Bleeding,

Lezlie

[sunshine]

Lezlie... because of the cramps on day 1 best to get some energy soothing herbs. contact dragonherbs.com and ask what they suggest... they won't take away your surplus of energy but only help to smoothen things out a bit...

 

Harry on the run

[RON JEREMY]

SO NOW YA DELETE MINE POSTS. BAKSTABIN BE CUM-TAGIOUS HUH??

APPOLIGISE IMMEDIATELY OR ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

THIS ALL PLACE STINK LIKE PUSYBLOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

AARRGGHH!!!

[sean]

SO NOW YA DELETE MINE POSTS. BAKSTABIN BE CUM-TAGIOUS HUH??

APPOLIGISE IMMEDIATELY OR ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

THIS ALL PLACE STINK LIKE PUSYBLOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

AARRGGHH!!!

6336[/snapback]

It's not deleted Ron, it's in The Pit.

 

No more insults in Taoist/Personal Practice Discussion. Please take constructive feedback on this new guideline to that thread.

 

Sean.

[peter falk]

i would like to add to this conversation for th erecord that i have a great deal of respect for the peopel who stick to the issues. lozen never really got into presonal attacks on anyone like some people did. all of us tried to analyze one another's thoughts or feelings, we even jumped to conclusions about them and made assumptions. i think that's ok because it occurred on a civil level without namecalling (with one exception). i don't mind attacks on my personal philosphies and beliefs as long as they are intelligent and don't attack my worth as a human being. it's one reason i participate here.

 

i value these kinds of dicussions that challenge our personal values and beliefs and am grateful for them. even with this kind of disagreement we basically kept the discussion intelligent and civil. some us will change as a result. others of us will live and let live.

 

i "met" lozen just over two years ago and am amazed at the growth and progress i've seen in her work as well as her genuine enthusiasm for it. i hope that seeing this growth is also a reflection of my own, but it's better left to others to see that.

 

there is also the possibility she's grown in ways that i haven't, and these kinds of discussions bring that stuff out. for all of us. if we just stroked each others egos all day like i've seen in some forums, we would never get anywhere.

 

as far as the concierges go, i admit that i am probably the most conservative in that role. not because i find things objectionable or offensive, but because i am concerned about all the participants as well as the legal implications of allowing certain material to appear. in my heart i may be wilder than any of the others. thoug h i don't have to deal with the issues of being short, big-eared and green.

 

anyway, be that as it may, after so many discussions about moderating with the other concierges and the big kahuna, sean, i think it's best to honor the vision the founders of the list had. it works best for me personally, but that's not why i agree to it. i agree to it for exactly the reasons sean states above.

[Lozen]

Trip,

I am not going to self-censor because you or anyone things my words may make me an "attractive target."

 

Peter Falk,

Thanks for the support. I too think you have grown immeasurably since I first "met" you though I always thought you were pretty cool.

 

Lozen

 

And for the record I do enjoy a well-intentioned kick in the ass.

[Trunk]

Trunk,

I am not going to self-censor because you or anyone things my words may make me an "attractive target."

Lozen,

 

??. I haven't suggested such, only posted once - briefly - in this thread early on, and didn't mention anything along those lines. And haven't suggested such to you or others in other threads (unless my memory is on the fritz again). Maybe someone else wrote that to you and you mistakenly thought it was me?

 

Trunk

[Lozen]

Sorry, I meant to say Trip. Forgive my sleep deprivation induced confusion. I corrected my original post.