Moving on

[Sloppy Zhang]

So I've been doing sitting and silent meditation for a while, pretty much since I was introduced to it through karate some four or five years ago. Through tai chi I've done some of the standing postures and a sitting meditation... but I don't have a teacher, and there's only so much tai chi media resources tell you.

 

But as far as internal cultivation and more serious building up exercises for self cultivation and stuff... what would be the "next level" for someone who's working on silent meditation but would like to add a little something? Nothing too advanced... really just something basic that I can build on. I've heard a lot about the microscopic orbit meditation, but not really familiar with what that is/what system it falls under/what exactly it tries to do (everything I've found on it describes it differently than every other source...) Then you hear about this or that meditation or this or that qigong being dangerous and.... yeah it gets confusing.

 

So could you help me out guys?

Edited November 20, 2008 by Sloppy Zhang

[orb]

So I've been doing sitting and silent meditation for a while, pretty much since I was introduced to it through karate some four or five years ago. Through tai chi I've done some of the standing postures and a sitting meditation... but I don't have a teacher, and there's only so much tai chi media resources tell you.

 

But as far as internal cultivation and more serious building up exercises for self cultivation and stuff... what would be the "next level" for someone who's working on silent meditation but would like to add a little something? Nothing too advanced... really just something basic that I can build on. I've heard a lot about the microscopic orbit meditation, but not really familiar with what that is/what system it falls under/what exactly it tries to do (everything I've found on it describes it differently than every other source...) Then you hear about this or that meditation or this or that qigong being dangerous and.... yeah it gets confusing.

 

So could you help me out guys?

 

 

I really like the Zen meditation - it's simple and clear and there are a lot of Zen centers where you can go and ask for a little bit of guidance.

[Pranaman]

for some reason I thought of this Huna meditation. It might interest you. It is the same as many other meditations.

 

Ancient Huna

 

It is a meditation on the light.

[Unconditioned]

Here is a link to numerous meditiation techniques explained in detail (the technique, how it works on you, etc.). There are so many different techniques because there are so many different kinds of people. If you find one that really 'feels right' then stick with it. If you try something for a week or so and it's not showing much results, then my suggestion is to move on.

 

Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=C382D1CE98AEFF4C

 

These are yoga meditations created mostly from the "Yoga Sutras" which I believe are the sutras written by Patangali.

 

Good luck!

-Nate

[Sloppy Zhang]

Thanks for the links pranaman and unconditional.

 

orb, I like the zen meditation too, and it's not like I want to stop but... I dunno, I feel like I'm sounding like one of the "the grass is greener over there, really!" type of people, but I'd like to try and incorporate more energy/qi work.

 

The exercises in the links look really good, and I'm definitely going to give them a try, but I'd also like to find something with a bit more Taoist lean to it, as it would fit in a little bit more with what I'm already doing, so I can build off of that.

 

Does anyone know any beginner level taoist exercises? The microcosmic orbit is taoist, isn't it? Would that be okay to start with, or is there like, a pre-microcosmic orbit meditation?

 

(sorry for the lame questions )

Edited November 22, 2008 by Sloppy Zhang

[Tao99]

Here's a good, useful, elementary description of the Taoist practice:

 

TAOIST MEDITATION: MICROCOSMIC ORBIT MEDITATION

 

http://1stholistic.com/Meditation/hol_medi...n_tao_orbit.htm

 

But please to always remember:

 

The Tao is not apart from virtue (Teh)

and virtue is not apart from the Tao.

 

Those who would practice the Tao,

must first bring about virtue.

 

Liu I-Ming, Awakening to the Tao

[idquest]

what would be the "next level" for someone who's working on silent meditation but would like to add a little something? Nothing too advanced...

 

Try thinking not of a single meditation but of a system. After you have absorbed one technic you will want next one. So a system could be better.

 

I personally try to do Mantak Chia system. As for stillness meditations you have there Inner Smile - MCO - Fusion - Kan & Li. I understand that other systems have about the same sequence (could be wrong here).

 

What is good with system: if you feel that next level doesn't resonate with you - go back to the previous one (this is what happens with me )

[Sloppy Zhang]

Here's a good, useful, elementary description of the Taoist practice:

 

TAOIST MEDITATION: MICROCOSMIC ORBIT MEDITATION

 

http://1stholistic.com/Meditation/hol_medi...n_tao_orbit.htm

 

But please to always remember:

 

The Tao is not apart from virtue (Teh)

and virtue is not apart from the Tao.

 

Those who would practice the Tao,

must first bring about virtue.

 

Liu I-Ming, Awakening to the Tao

 

Hey, thanks for that link

 

One question though, in the section where it talks about doing the microcosmic orbit in one breath, it says to let let the energy flow up on the exhale and down on the inhale... I thought that you brought the energy up on the inhale and let it go down on the exhale... but I might be mistaken

 

Try thinking not of a single meditation but of a system. After you have absorbed one technic you will want next one. So a system could be better.

 

I personally try to do Mantak Chia system. As for stillness meditations you have there Inner Smile - MCO - Fusion - Kan & Li. I understand that other systems have about the same sequence (could be wrong here).

 

What is good with system: if you feel that next level doesn't resonate with you - go back to the previous one (this is what happens with me )

 

Yeah, I'm not discarding the exercises I'm already doing, I'm just looking to add another dimension on top of the stuff I am already working on.

[Tao99]

You're right the "natural breathing method" is to breathe in to move the Chi up the back channel, and exhale to move it down the front channel. Some also teach the reverse breathing method for certain training, purposes. I use the natural method exclusively, for alchemical purposes.

 

http://www.kheper.net/topics/Taoism/circul...n_of_light.html has good pics of the channels.

Edited November 24, 2008 by Tao99

[Sloppy Zhang]

You're right the "natural breathing method" is to breathe in to move the Chi up the back channel, and exhale to move it down the front channel. Some also teach the reverse breathing method for certain training, purposes. I use the natural method exclusively, for alchemical purposes.

 

http://www.kheper.net/topics/Taoism/circul...n_of_light.html has good pics of the channels.

 

I see, thanks

 

Now, when breathing, does one use normal breathing (inhale, stomach goes out, exhale, stomach goes in) or the reverse abdominal breathing? (inhale stomach in, exhale stomach out)

 

I don't want to seem too nit picky... but I'd like to try and get it right while I'm just starting out

[Tao99]

Diaphragmatic breathing is usually advised for chi refinement. Reverse breathing is mostly used for martial art purposes I think.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaphragmatic_breathing

[SiliconValley]

Diaphragmatic breathing is usually advised for chi refinement. Reverse breathing is mostly used for martial art purposes I think.

 

 

Master Chunyi Lin teaches reverse breathing during all his Qigong exercises and also during the Microcosmic Orbit. He said that over a period of time, that should become the natural way of breathing without any effort.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Diaphragmatic breathing is usually advised for chi refinement. Reverse breathing is mostly used for martial art purposes I think.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaphragmatic_breathing

 

Master Chunyi Lin teaches reverse breathing during all his Qigong exercises and also during the Microcosmic Orbit. He said that over a period of time, that should become the natural way of breathing without any effort.

 

Hmm, interesting. Normally when I meditate and my posture gets better (sitting up) I find myself moving from diaphragmatic breathing to reverse breathing, but then if I ease my shoulders down a bit or if I am sitting in a chair or going throughout my normal day, I go back to "normal" everyday breathiing...

 

Okay, last question (thanks for being patient here guys):

 

I heard that touching the tongue to the roof of your mouth connects the two channels at the top, what do you have to do to connect the channels at the bottom? I've heard a few people say somewhere that you should squeeze the muscles in the lower area to connect the channels as you exhale, so that the downward flowing energy doesn't flow out of the lower chakra, I've heard others say you should squeeze the muscles to get the energy going up, I've heard you should squeeze as it is going down and as it is going up, and all kinds of variations and stuff....

 

So what's the deal on connecting the channels at the bottom?

 

And with the tongue, I've heard that the further back on your palette the better, is that true as well?

Edited November 25, 2008 by Sloppy Zhang

[Tao99]

No problem, I like discussing it. As I learned Taoist inner alchemy (meditation) the tongue touches (the middle of) the pallet and I've never heard of squeezing the muscles to drive the chi in the channels. I have heard of squeezing (tightening) and releasing the muscles before you begin, to bring on deep muscle relaxation. Maybe others have other methods.

 

It's a good idea to remember your purpose for extending your practice. If you are looking to learn to transform chi into jing (inner power), maybe like the martial artists do it, to drive it into the muscles and release it as physical force (li) then chi kung maybe what you are looking for.

 

In Taoist meditation (the chi cultivation part), the mind is quieted, the body is relaxed, the breathing is diaphrammatic, and the spirit attention is detached from the external, and concentrated on the flow of chi in the channels, to naturally produce a state of pure tranquil chi.

 

Taoists believe that this purified chi is good for health and longevity, and preventing and even curing ailments. Now you might say how could that be possible? But modern scientific research has shown that the mind can negatively impact the body causing sickness. In science this harmful mental state is called the stress response, which some believe is the Western equivalent of the Taoist's polluted chi. And it's opposite curative state is called the relaxation response, which is just the Western scientific term for purified chi.

 

FROM http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/69938.php ---

 

The consequences of chronic stress can be serious. An extensive body of research suggests that long-term stress, with its flood of stress hormones, can increase risk for many physical disorders, including stroke, gastrointestinal problems, high levels of "bad" LDL cholesterol, sleep disturbance, immune suppression, impotence, asthma, and premature aging. Chronic stress, especially in people with high hostility levels, can lead to higher risk for insulin resistance, a precursor to type 2 diabetes, according to a study published in the October 2006 issue of the journal Psychosomatic Medicine.

 

Long-term stress can cause cognitive and mood problems as well: confusion, poor concentration, poor memory, depression, anxiety, anger and irritability are often linked to chronic stress. But research has shown that certain stress reduction techniques can effectively eliminate these problems, according to Herbert Benson, MD, Director Emeritus of the Benson-Henry Institute (BHI) for Mind Body Medicine of Massachusetts General Hospital.

 

"The harmful effects of stress can be mitigated," says Dr. Benson. "You can do this on your own, simply by harnessing protective mechanisms that are part of the relaxation response the physiological opposite of the stress response.

 

"The relaxation response is a physical state of deep rest that changes your physical and emotional responses to stress. It decreases your metabolism, rate of breathing, heart rate, and blood pressure, and relaxes your muscles. There are a number of ways to achieve the relaxation response. A generic technique we teach at the BHI has two essential aspects the repetition of a word, phrase, prayer, or sound; and the disregarding of thoughts that come to mind, with a return to repetition."

 

"These techniques are very effective in reducing stress," says Dr. Benson, "and they work especially well when coupled with efforts to adjust your attitudes and reactions to challenges in a way that promotes resiliency. For example, working to eliminate negative attitudes and focus on positive outcomes seeing the glass as half full rather than half empty can help you strengthen your ability to cope with stress and rebound from it.

 

So it turns out the Taoists were onto to something real and important for health with their chi refinement and circulation, as well as their mental attitudes towards daily living as Lui I-Ming so clearly described.

 

Liu I-Ming describes this part of Taoist meditation poetically like this:

 

Use a quiet mind as the place you rest your spirit. Tuning breath, breath and mind merge, spirit and energy unite, and refined chi flows.

 

 

Here's one recent study:

 

Yoga And Meditation Change Gene Response To Stress

02 Jul 2008

Research from the US suggests that mind body techniques like yoga and meditation that put the body in a state of deep rest known as the relaxation response, are capable of changing how genes behave in response to stress ... http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/113735.php

Edited November 25, 2008 by Tao99

[Baguakid]

I've tried both breathing techniques and alignment techniques and I prefer alignment techniques over breathing.

 

Look up "Warriors of Stillness" by Jan Diepersloot if you can get it. I think it's currently out of print but you may find it used.

 

It details the standing practice as taught by Cai SongFang who I also studied with and know. I think it's great material.

 

 

wow, just noticed the price for this book is over 60 bucks.

 

But, look at the reviews:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Warriors-Stillness-V...e/dp/0964997606

Edited November 25, 2008 by Baguakid

[Sloppy Zhang]

No problem, I like discussing it. As I learned Taoist inner alchemy (meditation) the tongue touches (the middle of) the pallet and I've never heard of squeezing the muscles to drive the chi in the channels. I have heard of squeezing (tightening) and releasing the muscles before you begin, to bring on deep muscle relaxation. Maybe others have other methods.

 

It's a good idea to remember your purpose for extending your practice. If you are looking to learn to transform chi into jing (inner power), maybe like the martial artists do it, to drive it into the muscles and release it as physical force (li) then chi kung maybe what you are looking for.

 

In Taoist meditation (the chi cultivation part), the mind is quieted, the body is relaxed, the breathing is diaphrammatic, and the spirit attention is detached from the external, and concentrated on the flow of chi in the channels, to naturally produce a state of pure tranquil chi.

 

Taoists believe that this purified chi is good for health and longevity, and preventing and even curing ailments. Now you might say how could that be possible? But modern scientific research has shown that the mind can negatively impact the body causing sickness. In science this harmful mental state is called the stress response, which some believe is the Western equivalent of the Taoist's polluted chi. And it's opposite curative state is called the relaxation response, which is just the Western scientific term for purified chi.

 

Yeah, I'm definitely looking for the more calmer aspect. The qigong stuff for harder martial arts is cool but... it's not really my thing. I went down that road with karate, but the taoist stuff is definitely what I'm looking to learn now.

 

I also like looking up the recent medical findings, it's always funny when a "modern" finding comes out and it proves... well it proves stuff that people have been doing for thousands of years

 

I guess muscle tensing was the wrong word, more like muscle "squeezing"?

 

But basically the tongue to the roof of the mouth connects the ru mai and the du mai (those are the right names I think?) channels at the top. Do you have to do anything to connect the channels in the bottom?

 

I've also heard people say you need to apply a "root lock" when doing the microcosmic orbit meditation, is this true?

Edited November 28, 2008 by Sloppy Zhang

[Tao99]

You might be referring to the "pinching" of the spine or certain "pressing" techniques. In Taoism there are 100's of techniques, some primary, some auxialliary, and some on an if needed basis. For what you are looking for it's probably best to formulate just the basic primary Taoist (chi) meditation for purifying and circulating the chi as outlined earlier, and from this alone you will get the result you are looking for. Some of those other techniques can be harmful id done wrong and require a teacher. However the basic Taoist chi meditation is safe, non-religious (can be practiced by anyone of any religion) and good for health, tranquility, and living in harmony with the natural environment.

Edited November 29, 2008 by Tao99

[Sloppy Zhang]

You might be referring to the "pinching" of the spine or certain "pressing" techniques. In Taoism there are 100's of techniques, some primary, some auxialliary, and some on an if needed basis. For what you are looking for it's probably best to formulate just the basic primary Taoist (chi) meditation for purifying and circulating the chi as outlined earlier, and from this alone you will get the result you are looking for. Some of those other techniques can be harmful id done wrong and require a teacher. However the basic Taoist chi meditation is safe, non-religious (can be practiced by anyone of any religion) and good for health, tranquility, and living in harmony with the natural environment.

 

Ah, okay I see.

 

Thanks very much for all your help

[Creation]

The perineum (between anus and genitals) connects the two channels. So the muscular contractions in that area are to stimulate that point. But that's just to get the energy flowing more powerfully, and is not necessary. Unlike at the top, one doesn't have to do anything to connect the channels. As a matter of fact, I've heard these squeezing methods can be dangerous, because you can get more energy flowing than you can handle.

 

Everybody has energy flowing in these two channels. The question is, how freely and how powerfully does the chi flow? And what is the quality of the chi flowing through? There are different types of chi. Yin, yang, yuan, pre-birth, post-birth, etc. I'm no expert on all of this. And I also get the impression that the flow goes in both directions, but one is just more aware of a certain one for whatever reason (e.g. you are concentrating on one in your meditation). So you can concentrate on a particular direction in a particular channel on the inhale, and then the other direction in the other channel on the exhale, and you can use different types of breathing, leading to many ways to meditate practice the orbit. And all of these focus on pushing the energy according to your intention, which can get you into trouble if you have blockages or don't do it quite right. This is why I don't mess with MCO meditations, at least not until a teacher recommends it and can guide me through.

 

But having higher quality chi to move more freely and powerfully through all your channels and energy gates is certainly a good thing. Personally, I do standing and longevity/internal breathing (taught by B. K. Frantzis) to generate and ground/store the energy, and am starting on Bodhri's White Skeleton visualization and Frantizs' dissolving to get the energy moving freely and powerfully. Also, Trunk recommends self-acupressure on the points of the MCO to help it open up. See http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/MsgIntro.htm It has had some beneficial effects on my relaxation and energy levels. But I can't yet report MCO results. So maybe I'm just full of it .

 

Best of luck,

-Tyler

Edited November 29, 2008 by Creation

[markern]

Simple stuff that i find very effective for all round healing, cleansing and psychological development is the six healing sounds and inner smile. It is not the stuff that realy amps up your regular meditation a lot although it will have a lot of benefits there also, it will however give loads of all round benefits. I think these excercises are especialy good to do for people starting out as they take care of a lot of basic work.

 

Another thing you could try is wu ji qigong. I learnt it a few weeks a go and find it to be an amazing practice. It is also very simple to learn and could be learnt well from video and books. Not all people find it to be such a great practice it seems to be about half who absoultely love it and half who doesn`t like it that much. Michael winn has cds and books about it and you can read about it here:

 

http://www.chionline.com/qigong/wuji.htm

 

Another option is pranayama. It seems your path is going to be toist so it is probably best not to mix traditions too much and anyway most pranayama is best learnt by an experienced teacher. However some easy pranyama can be learnt on your own. A practice like laternate nostril breathing is excellent for preparing for meditation and has numerous benefits. It is also a pranayama I don`t think conflicts with taoist practices. You can find some simple version of alternate nostril breathing (without retention of breath) and slowly and carefully try it out.