The True Taoism?

[林愛偉]

Regardless if one sees Daoist teachings as Philosophical or Religious, in the world there are things

that people just don't know about and there are methods to straighten things out, so to say. Its neither Philosophy or Religion.

 

And just to let you all know, this talk of Daoist being a Philosophy or Religion started by people who wanted to be distinguished from the whole. There are just teachings, and methods of cultivation.

 

On the other hand, one at a beginner's level can only understand their level. They can not understand the functions of a higher level. The idea of Daoist philosophy is not superior to the idea of Daoist Religion, vice verse. Even the idea of different groups of Daoists are against the principles of the teachings, but because they are there, and good upholders of the teachings, they will be.

 

There are more things to "Daoism" than just words in a book and a few stances of Qigong. Some people can only do with the words and Qigong, others go further and investigate a mind of no distinction, and understand the actual "science" .

 

Peace,

Lin

[Tao99]

Regardless if one sees Daoist teachings as Philosophical or Religious, in the world there are things

that people just don't know about and there are methods to straighten things out, so to say. Its neither Philosophy or Religion.

 

And just to let you all know, this talk of Daoist being a Philosophy or Religion started by people who wanted to be distinguished from the whole. There are just teachings, and methods of cultivation.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

Philosophy is a system of knowledge about the world, human conduct, etc. Religion is a set of beliefs and practices involving the sacred and/or the supernatural. The Tao has been transmited as both a philosophy and religion. Once again, maybe you are describing Buddhism, but you are not describing the Tao.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Taoism the religion is not just a belief, it is also something that work with the phillosophy. The problem now is that most people just see DaoJia, the phillosophy side as the WHOLE of taoism, but it is really missing out lots of good stuff which combine with it. Without phillosophy, the religion do not make any sense, but without religion, your phillosophy is just a fantasy which is not practical and just get you in a dream or fantasy. They work together. That is TAOISM.

 

Philosophy is a system of knowledge about the world, human conduct, etc. Religion is a set of beliefs and practices involving the sacred and/or the supernatural. The Tao has been transmited as both a philosophy and religion. Once again, maybe you are describing Buddhism, but you are not describing the Tao.

[Cynopterus]

There seems to be some head butting and even a touch of animosity when discussing the "what is real Taoism" subject.......

 

On this forum I see philosophers goading the religious, and the religious scoffing at the philosophers......in some cases it has even degenerated into name calling and mockery. In the process both sides seem to miss out on valuable insights from the other.

 

Seems to me that this debate itself contradicts the behavior and ideology we all claim to aspire to.......

 

Perhaps there is more than enough room for everyone who is making a sincere effort using whatever methods they are attuned to.........don't two sides, in fact, equal a single idea?

 

Just my two cents.....

[Mak_Tin_Si]

I am sorry to let you dissappointed, you have mis-understood here. The Religion side of Taoism HAVE the phillosophy side too, and it have MUCH more than what you can think of. The religion also provide a way to put phillosophy into practise and practical use. But on the other side, phillosophy ONLY people do not know how to put it in real practical use but also missing out lots of good stuff in the TAOISM in a whole. So that is why religion people are saying that phillosophy-only people are missing out lots of stuff here in TAOISM which they never willing to accept that this is what the western taoism world is missing. Now we are willing to share that missing part, but it takes time.

 

There seems to be some head butting and even a touch of animosity when discussing the "what is real Taoism" subject.......

 

On this forum I see philosophers goading the religious, and the religious scoffing at the philosophers......in some cases it has even degenerated into name calling and mockery. In the process both sides seem to miss out on valuable insights from the other.

 

Seems to me that this debate itself contradicts the behavior and ideology we all claim to aspire to.......

 

Perhaps there is more than enough room for everyone who is making a sincere effort using whatever methods they are attuned to.........don't two sides, in fact, equal a single idea?

 

Just my two cents.....

[Tao99]

Taoism the religion is not just a belief, it is also something that work with the phillosophy.

 

Agreed. What concerns me is the common attempt around here to convert the Taoist doctrine/Taoists into the Buddhist doctrine. This can't be done. I practice the philosophy of live and let live, you go your way and I will go mine. I have no interest in telling Buddhists they are wrong for believing differently then me. As long as we both have basic virtue, it makes no interactive difference on this shared planet.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Tao99

[Stigweard]

As long as we both have basic virtue, it makes no interactive difference on this shared planet.

 

[Cynopterus]

I am sorry to let you dissappointed, you have mis-understood here. The Religion side of Taoism HAVE the phillosophy side too, and it have MUCH more than what you can think of. The religion also provide a way to put phillosophy into practise and practical use. But on the other side, phillosophy ONLY people do not know how to put it in real practical use but also missing out lots of good stuff in the TAOISM in a whole. So that is why religion people are saying that phillosophy-only people are missing out lots of stuff here in TAOISM which they never willing to accept that this is what the western taoism world is missing. Now we are willing to share that missing part, but it takes time.

 

Not disappointed at all Mak. I find the history and ideas of religious Taoism quite fascinating, and I read your posts with great interest.....

[exorcist_1699]

Of course, Tao is beyond words or any forms of thinking we ever know. Even pure intuition is not what it is for pre-heavenly arena is beyond the experience and thinking of people who live in a post-heavenly world . Just like a creature which lives in 2d world can't understand how a 3d world looks like no matter how hard a description of it has been given .

 

So, no human religion and philosophy can really express Tao , these categories are only adopted under a status of lack of choice .

[林愛偉]

Philosophy is a system of knowledge about the world, human conduct, etc. Religion is a set of beliefs and practices involving the sacred and/or the supernatural. The Tao has been transmited as both a philosophy and religion. Once again, maybe you are describing Buddhism, but you are not describing the Tao.

 

 

Quan Zhen

[seadog]

I wonder if one were to spend three years in a grave as Master Wang did(Quan Zhen)

Would you still be questioning the nature of 'True Taoism'?

[林愛偉]

I wonder if one were to spend three years in a grave as Master Wang did(Quan Zhen)

Would you still be questioning the nature of 'True Taoism'?

 

 

Speaking of which, living in a grave or at a graveyard amongst the tombs, is one of the 12 aesthetic practices in Buddhism. Reason, to remind oneself straight up every day that death can come at anytime, so quickly attain enlightenment, cut off afflictions and end birth and death or one will never be free.

 

 

Peace,

Lin

[Mak_Tin_Si]

That is an off shoot and misleading thing for most taoist. You know that why they did it but you have mis-understood why they came up with this. If you try it now, without the other skills they have, you will be in big big trouble. This is because you have missed out the other factors that you will encounter in the grave.

 

Speaking of which, living in a grave or at a graveyard amongst the tombs, is one of the 12 aesthetic practices in Buddhism. Reason, to remind oneself straight up every day that death can come at anytime, so quickly attain enlightenment, cut off afflictions and end birth and death or one will never be free.

Peace,

Lin

[林愛偉]

That is an off shoot and misleading thing for most taoist. You know that why they did it but you have mis-understood why they came up with this. If you try it now, without the other skills they have, you will be in big big trouble. This is because you have missed out the other factors that you will encounter in the grave.

 

 

Really?

 

I have found there is a habit on this forum of people assuming what others' understandings are.

 

Some just can't have a conversation without claiming others are below them. That's fine.

 

Sorry brother, but you may be ordained as a Tian Shi (Tin Si), yet, there are many who are ordained as such

just because of the tradition of it all.

 

Like I said in another post, if you are, why tell people? If you aren't, why claim to be such?

 

If I have to answer that, many will not like it. Then again, you may be such, true and decided by those in the heavens. Which heavens?

 

Peace,

Lin

 

P.S.- Keep in mind, there is no attack of one's character here, nor degrading. So before people start picking on words that some have written, look for something with more substance to shine the mirror on^_^

[Mak_Tin_Si]

The word Tin Si is just a pose in Taoism, why do you become so sensitive anyway? Just like people calling themselve a Taoist (Dao Shi), will you say the same thing to them then? You only say it because you think it is a high ranking? But I just put my name as Mak Tin Si because that is what people call me in my daily life, and that is why I am used to be named. No hard feelings. Sorry if that brings you any bad feeling. I am a Tin Si and that is not a SHAME for me, so why can't I use the name then?

 

Talking about the tomb and grave thing, yeh, that is a problem for most people. You need to go into a grave to live, what do you think will happen to the person? Energy wise and mental wise. Do you think you need anything or any kind of practise BEFORE going in to prepare yourself?

 

Um, think about fungshui first and then think about 5 elements that affect us in fungshui. Now maybe you got enlighten about this topic more.

 

(the myth will be unlocked soon)

 

 

Really?

 

I have found there is a habit on this forum of people assuming what others' understandings are.

 

Some just can't have a conversation without claiming others are below them. That's fine.

 

Sorry brother, but you may be ordained as a Tian Shi (Tin Si), yet, there are many who are ordained as such

just because of the tradition of it all.

 

Like I said in another post, if you are, why tell people? If you aren't, why claim to be such?

 

If I have to answer that, many will not like it. Then again, you may be such, true and decided by those in the heavens. Which heavens?

 

Peace,

Lin

 

P.S.- Keep in mind, there is no attack of one's character here, nor degrading. So before people start picking on words that some have written, look for something with more substance to shine the mirror on^_^

Edited December 1, 2008 by Mak_Tin_Si

[林愛偉]

The word Tin Si is just a pose in Taoism, why do you become so sensitive anyway? Just like people calling themselve a Taoist (Dao Shi), will you say the same thing to them then? You only say it because you think it is a high ranking? But I just put my name as Mak Tin Si because that is what people call me in my daily life, and that is why I am used to be named. No hard feelings. Sorry if that brings you any bad feeling. I am a Tin Si and that is not a SHAME for me, so why can't I use the name then?

 

Talking about the tomb and grave thing, yeh, that is a problem for most people. You need to go into a grave to live, what do you think will happen to the person? Energy wise and mental wise. Do you think you need anything or any kind of practise BEFORE going in to prepare yourself?

 

Um, think about fungshui first and then think about 5 elements that affect us in fungshui. Now maybe you got enlighten about this topic more.

 

(the myth will be unlocked soon)

 

 

This is fun indeed.

 

Nope, was never bothered by the title Tianshi(TinSi), just you should really pay more attention to how things are viewed in this world. People may call you Tin Si on a daily basis, but the name insinuates more than what most people can understand, and thus presents confusion for the masses. Daoshi...yes, the same thing applies.

 

I have met many a Daoshi...calling themselves Daoshi after their name, and its just ridiculous. Tian Shi, I have met two, both powerful. And not any of them introduced themselves as Tianshi, just simply their name. As my Hua Shan Pai SHifu says, regardless of who one is, or what they have attained, its best to stay out of the pot light and out of people's expectations. As a Daoist cultivator, one wants to present less confusion to the masses.

 

When people hear, or see "Heavenly Master" do you know what they expect? Do you know what goes through their mind?

 

And for living in a grave, no matter what energy is there, the mind is still the mind. That is what must change, not the energy. Once the mind changes, regardless of the energy, the mind will not be affected, neither will the person's "energy body".

 

The language game is quite amusing. What else of what I write do you want to distort and turn around on me?

 

There's a term for it for the last 30yrs...its called Gaslighting in America. People do it and not realize they do it due to habit.

 

Speech is the most important thing, and it must be clear and non-dominating in order to bring forth proper teachings.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin Ai Wei

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Yeh, i agreed that language is something that brings problem to some places. The word Tin Si is really a position in Taoism only. There are many other who became Tin Si in the old days too, and even now, but just that only people know about the Jeung's family Tin Si, so maybe that is what makes it so special feeling.

 

Naming yourself with the title is a kind of respect for yourself and others. Yet, you can also just put the name of yourself for others to call you, but it doesn't makes a difference anyway. With people calling you like Lin Tao Jeung, (senior taoist) or Lin Ai Wai makes a difference when you do have a pose of Dao Jeung. I mean not for you but for the others. It is also a kind of responsibility for yourself to let people know that you are in such a pose so people do know and will know what to get from you.

 

For example a Dao Jeung came up, you will ask them more about taoism stuff, maybe a Wor Sheung (buddhism monk) came up, you ask them more about buddhism stuff. So a Tin Si came up, you know what you can talk to them about and they will be able to answer your inquries. So it is important to entitle yourself for the public to know what to get and expect from you. As you said, people expect different things when you have the name Tin Si. So that is why I use the name Mak Tin Si instead of my full name.

--

 

Regarding the grave. Yet the mind is important, but the energy dose affect the mind though. A bad fungshui place will affect your mind, action, habbits and living. Even you are a very powerful master, you will still be affected by fungshui, unless you get rid of the world with 5 elements and stay with only yin and yang, which is immortal living.

 

 

 

 

This is fun indeed.

 

Nope, was never bothered by the title Tianshi(TinSi), just you should really pay more attention to how things are viewed in this world. People may call you Tin Si on a daily basis, but the name insinuates more than what most people can understand, and thus presents confusion for the masses. Daoshi...yes, the same thing applies.

 

I have met many a Daoshi...calling themselves Daoshi after their name, and its just ridiculous. Tian Shi, I have met two, both powerful. And not any of them introduced themselves as Tianshi, just simply their name. As my Hua Shan Pai SHifu says, regardless of who one is, or what they have attained, its best to stay out of the pot light and out of people's expectations. As a Daoist cultivator, one wants to present less confusion to the masses.

 

When people hear, or see "Heavenly Master" do you know what they expect? Do you know what goes through their mind?

 

And for living in a grave, no matter what energy is there, the mind is still the mind. That is what must change, not the energy. Once the mind changes, regardless of the energy, the mind will not be affected, neither will the person's "energy body".

 

The language game is quite amusing. What else of what I write do you want to distort and turn around on me?

 

There's a term for it for the last 30yrs...its called Gaslighting in America. People do it and not realize they do it due to habit.

 

Speech is the most important thing, and it must be clear and non-dominating in order to bring forth proper teachings.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin Ai Wei

Edited December 1, 2008 by Mak_Tin_Si

[gossamer]

Dear Lin Ai Wei,

 

You spoke my mind about words, and how they are used.

 

I had never heard of the term 'gaslighting' before, but it fits well what it describes. lol

 

I feel real power from your words.....alignment with Dao.

 

Thanks a lot for your post.

 

Peace, gossamer

 

 

 

This is fun indeed.

 

Nope, was never bothered by the title Tianshi(TinSi), just you should really pay more attention to how things are viewed in this world. People may call you Tin Si on a daily basis, but the name insinuates more than what most people can understand, and thus presents confusion for the masses. Daoshi...yes, the same thing applies.

 

I have met many a Daoshi...calling themselves Daoshi after their name, and its just ridiculous. Tian Shi, I have met two, both powerful. And not any of them introduced themselves as Tianshi, just simply their name. As my Hua Shan Pai SHifu says, regardless of who one is, or what they have attained, its best to stay out of the pot light and out of people's expectations. As a Daoist cultivator, one wants to present less confusion to the masses.

 

When people hear, or see "Heavenly Master" do you know what they expect? Do you know what goes through their mind?

 

And for living in a grave, no matter what energy is there, the mind is still the mind. That is what must change, not the energy. Once the mind changes, regardless of the energy, the mind will not be affected, neither will the person's "energy body".

 

The language game is quite amusing. What else of what I write do you want to distort and turn around on me?

 

There's a term for it for the last 30yrs...its called Gaslighting in America. People do it and not realize they do it due to habit.

 

Speech is the most important thing, and it must be clear and non-dominating in order to bring forth proper teachings.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin Ai Wei

[林愛偉]

Yeh, i agreed that language is something that brings problem to some places. The word Tin Si is really a position in Taoism only. There are many other who became Tin Si in the old days too, and even now, but just that only people know about the Jeung's family Tin Si, so maybe that is what makes it so special feeling.

 

Naming yourself with the title is a kind of respect for yourself and others. Yet, you can also just put the name of yourself for others to call you, but it doesn't makes a difference anyway. With people calling you like Lin Tao Jeung, (senior taoist) or Lin Ai Wai makes a difference when you do have a pose of Dao Jeung. I mean not for you but for the others. It is also a kind of responsibility for yourself to let people know that you are in such a pose so people do know and will know what to get from you.

 

For example a Dao Jeung came up, you will ask them more about taoism stuff, maybe a Wor Sheung (buddhism monk) came up, you ask them more about buddhism stuff. So a Tin Si came up, you know what you can talk to them about and they will be able to answer your inquries. So it is important to entitle yourself for the public to know what to get and expect from you. As you said, people expect different things when you have the name Tin Si. So that is why I use the name Mak Tin Si instead of my full name.

--

 

Regarding the grave. Yet the mind is important, but the energy dose affect the mind though. A bad fungshui place will affect your mind, action, habbits and living. Even you are a very powerful master, you will still be affected by fungshui, unless you get rid of the world with 5 elements and stay with only yin and yang, which is immortal living.

 

 

Mak Tin Si,

 

My given name is not Lin Ai Wei, but students and close family-friends had begun calling me this name for over 8yrs. Because very few people refered to me by my given name, this name stuck, and that just what I go by. ANyone can be called this name..hehe I have met a few women called Lin Ai Wei :-P

 

But, please I hope you know, personally, I never once felt to try to put down any acheivement you have attained. You are a good person, and indeed have Orthodox Daoist education to offer. Just, when it comes to the west, there may need to be vacabulary changes for some things, until its not needed.

 

May the Jade Emporer bestow lifetimes of blessings upon you.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin Ai Wei