How DoTaoist view The pig

[The Genuine Article]

As a muslim it is haraam(forbidden) to eat the pig. Because it says in the bible that the dead was cast into the pig

 

parts of the bible that give clear rejection to the pig:

romans 12:1

john 2

genesis 7:2, 3, 1:29

leviticus 11:7-8

ezekiel 33:11, 22:26

Luke 4:2,3

revelations 22:11, 12

deut 14:8

corinthians 6:20, 3:17, 10:31, 6;17

Mark 5:11-16

 

 

and the quran

 

surah 2:168,173

surah 5:3

surah 6:122, 146, 147

surah 16:115

 

 

my question is how do taoist view the pig who contain a vein that produces pus and also contain a harmful worm called the trichinae worm(worser than the heartworm)

[Taomeow]

As a muslim it is haraam(forbidden) to eat the pig. Because it says in the bible that the dead was cast into the pig

 

parts of the bible that give clear rejection to the pig:

romans 12:1

john 2

genesis 7:2, 3, 1:29

leviticus 11:7-8

ezekiel 33:11, 22:26

Luke 4:2,3

revelations 22:11, 12

deut 14:8

corinthians 6:20, 3:17, 10:31, 6;17

Mark 5:11-16

and the quran

 

surah 2:168,173

surah 5:3

surah 6:122, 146, 147

surah 16:115

my question is how do taoist view the pig who contain a vein that produces pus and also contain a harmful worm called the trichinae worm(worser than the heartworm)

 

A few Buddhism-taoism blends take the Buddhist view, but most taoists (and the overwhelming majority of Chinese) count pork among the Five Sacred Meats of Taoism as taught to the Yellow Emperor by the goddess who transmitted to him what is now known as TCM. The caveats do apply to farm raised animals, all of them, not just pig, except for dog (one of the Five Sacred) which is deemed good to eat whether wild or tame. Taoists are advised to favor game meats with good rationale behind the advice, but no, discrimination against pigs is not part of "all" taoism, only "some" taoism. All vegetarian traits in taoism are borrowings from Buddhism that were never there originally.

 

There's no vein that specializes in producing pus in any animal. Pus is formed in any animal suffering from infections -- this is common in inadequately raised and improperly fed farm animals, all of them, not just the pig.

 

Trichinae parasite is the reason pork should never be cooked "rare" or "medium rare," only "well done" -- high temperatures destroy it completely and safely. Flesh-infesting parasites are most common in fish, to an extent far exceeding that in pigs. They seldom present a problem if safe handling, processing, and consumption are observed. E.g., sushi is highly likely to carry a few of these, but wasabi which is the absolutely necessary part of the meal kills them as you go.

 

TCM has a wide range of uses for pork (produces fluids in dryness disorders, is warming and useful in cold disorders, facilitates healthy growth in sickly children, aids reproductive health, to name a few.)

 

The real metabolic reason pork is taboo in some religious dietary laws might have been discovered only recently by a science known as lectinology. If interested, I'll tell you more.

Edited November 23, 2008 by Taomeow

[VCraigP]

Lectinology?

 

Well at least some links...perhaps

 

Craig

Edited November 23, 2008 by VCraigP

[yiannis]

parts of the bible that give clear rejection to the pig:

romans 12:1

john 2

genesis 7:2, 3, 1:29

leviticus 11:7-8

ezekiel 33:11, 22:26

Luke 4:2,3

revelations 22:11, 12

deut 14:8

corinthians 6:20, 3:17, 10:31, 6;17

Mark 5:11-16

 

Christians are allowed to eat any kind of meat they desire in moderation. In the bible (new testament) there is no restriction whatsoever about eating pig or any other animal. The above passages they have nothing to do with pigs or eating for that matter. I don't know where you find or who gave you these information.

[Taomeow]

Lectinology?

 

Well at least some links...perhaps

 

Craig

 

Lectinology, a study of lectins, is a relatively young, highly specialized branch of biochemistry/biophysics whose discoveries are currently mostly being abused by GM applications (in fact, GM manipulations are only possible because there's lectins) and the bogus Eat Right diet; however, it holds the key to something in the human, animal, and plant nature as fundamental as the Laws of Attraction -- or perhaps the very bees knees of Attachment... on the cellular level.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectins

Edited November 23, 2008 by Taomeow

[YMWong]

Meat in Daoist Rituals

 

 

 

YM

[The Genuine Article]

[yiannis]

i think you need to read those passages. IT has a lot to do with the pig

 

you could start with the book of leviticus

 

 

My friend,

 

the old testament is not consider a book of rules by the christian tradition as it is practiced today. There are NO restrictions imposed to eating pig or any other meat.

[shontonga]

i think you need to read those passages. IT has a lot to do with the pig

 

 

For anyone interested this is a great site to look stuff up(passages).

Found it here on the Bum's, pretty good.

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...amp;version=31;

 

Enjoy!

 

As a child went to a catholic school, I liked it, I wasn't catholic ?

It was strange, especially the part about reincarnation??? Still gets me?

Granted alot confused me, but don't recall any teachings steering folks away

from eating any kind of meat, only at certain times?

 

And what was expected years ago has changed.

There were prescribed periods of fasting for everyone,

but then over time the Pope had given "permission" for the ill, elderly, or young children.

There was certain times that meat was not eaten (Was it in Lent??? Wednesdays/Fridays???)

but fish was allowed? I really don't recall as much as I wish I did!

 

There has been many changes, I guess, seems it gets updated every few years???

 

Should be some interesting replies, Thanks for you information Taomeow!

Knew there was some CM reasons for eating it but couldn't think of hat they would be! Very cool, am going to have to go look that up!

 

 

Stay well,

Shon

 

Oo? And YMWong, very cool, sorry I had missed those?

Thanks!

Edited November 23, 2008 by shontonga

[Aetherous]

the old testament is not consider a book of rules by the christian tradition as it is practiced today. There are NO restrictions imposed to eating pig or any other meat.

 

This isn't a Christian forum or topic, but I disagree. The old laws weren't abolished when Jesus came. You might want to reread what Jesus actually said regarding this:

 

Matthew 5:17-19

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[Taomeow]

i find it amusing that a person who eats pork(a sick creature) must use heat to "cure its sickness....the nature of the animal is sick whether it has be cured OR not.

 

Um... in the taoist tradition, cold/raw foods that were never exposed to heat are offered to the spirits of the dead, as more suitable for them than for the living. I put uncooked rice on my altar, but I do use heat for making pilaf. I think you need to make up your mind about what it is exactly you're preaching. I've shared the dinner table with quite a few Moslems in my day and age, and my own secret pilaf recipe comes from a proud Moslem family. (Never shared with a woman before! A male pilaf lineage! ) Lamb pilaf with saffron... and forty-three other spices... mmmm! Wish I could serve you some... anyone would convert to anything if that was the condition I'd impose on anyone getting the seconds!

Edited November 23, 2008 by Taomeow

[yiannis]

This isn't a Christian forum or topic, but I disagree. The old laws weren't abolished when Jesus came. You might want to reread what Jesus actually said regarding this:

 

Matthew 5:17-19

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

Scotty,

I didn't say that the laws were abolished, but they were "perfected" and "revised". For example the Moses' law of "an eye for an eye" became, "turn the other cheek when being hit", etc.

 

This is not as you said a christian forum and this kind of discusion will take forever.

 

As far as eating pig is conserned, there is absolutely no restriction in the religion as it is practiced today.

[Aetherous]

Yiannis,

 

I didn't say that the laws were abolished, but they were "perfected" and "revised". For example the Moses' law of "an eye for an eye" became, "turn the other cheek when being hit", etc.

 

Yep I agree...but I disagree that we should say:

 

As far as eating pig is conserned, there is absolutely no restriction in the religion as it is practiced today.

 

I eat pork, because I don't think it's a big deal. There are more important things to concern ourselves with...but I'm not going to speak about what the religion is supposed to be. People who do that mislead others. Do you want to be one of them?

 

Think about this: does it say anywhere in the New Testament, "you can now eat pork"? Nope. Where did this change come from, then? Not from Jesus.

 

It's not a perfection of the law, but a loosening of it. When Jesus spoke of changes in the law, he always tended to make them more strict.

 

So, who told you that it's true? Where did they get their info from?

[YMWong]

in the taoist tradition, cold/raw foods that were never exposed to heat are offered to the spirits of the dead, as more suitable for them than for the living. I put uncooked rice on my altar

 

Not necessarily so and actually not usually so.

 

For meat offering on Daoist rituals check out my post above with scans of "Meat in Daoist Ritual".

For specific offering to the death many other sources are available. Usually offering to the ancestors (death) are consumed by the living after the death have absorbed their 'essence' so normally it is COOKED food that is offered.

 

See Bokenkamp for instance here:

 

 

YM

[shontonga]

YMWong?

Is the name of the book you posted "Offerings in Daoist ritual"

Is the Author "Asano Haruji"

 

Looks very good, like to see more of it myself !

 

Sorry, The Genuine Article, You know have 15 posts and two who Actually replied

with Taoist "answers" that could be looked up! One on medicine and one on ritual?

... Have enjoyed them all

but so swiftly the current takes hold ...

 

2 out of 15's not bad!

 

Good luck!

 

Shon

 

 

*edited to change the # of posts,

Edited November 23, 2008 by shontonga

[YMWong]

Offerings in Daoist Ritual

Asano Haruji

 

in

 

Daoist Identity, History, Lineage and Ritual

Ed. by Livia Kohn and Harld D. Roth

2002, University of Hawai'i Press

 

The last scan is from

 

Ancestors and Anxiety

Daoism and the Birth of Rebirth in China

Stephen R. Bokenkamp

2007. University of California Press

[shontonga]

Offerings in Daoist Ritual

Asano Haruji

 

in

 

Daoist Identity, History, Lineage and Ritual

Ed. by Livia Kohn and Harld D. Roth

2002, University of Hawai'i Press

 

The last scan is from

 

Ancestors and Anxiety

Daoism and the Birth of Rebirth in China

Stephen R. Bokenkamp

2007. University of California Press

 

 

Thank you!

 

Have heard with other "beliefs" no offerings were to be left also.

The reasons given are many but the 2 that I can recall are

 

for one, It "holds" the "spirits" here.

For two, often there was not enough food for the living let alone those who have passed.

Both = leaving an offering to be Extremely disrespectful!

Both To the Living and the "Spirits".

 

But when things are plentiful, and folks are thankful, some milk or rice is shared.

But when times are tough and finding a way to go on is hard, what little is had, is shared.

 

Rules get set in place but folks alway go back to the old ways it seems?

What ever it is they need to do to keep connected to life.

 

Thank you again!

 

I'll stop posting now and let the thread get back on track

 

Peace,

Shonton Ga

Edited November 23, 2008 by shontonga

[Taomeow]

Not necessarily so and actually not usually so.

 

For meat offering on Daoist rituals check out my post above with scans of "Meat in Daoist Ritual".

For specific offering to the death many other sources are available. Usually offering to the ancestors (death) are consumed by the living after the death have absorbed their 'essence' so normally it is COOKED food that is offered.

 

See Bokenkamp for instance here:

 

 

YM

I didn't make a peep about meat in taoist rituals, you may notice. I am familiar with the Border Sacrifice which predates most other taoist rituals and was practiced till 1911 if my sources don't lie. Shang Ti asked for a whole bull!

 

Nor about my practice as the "only one." But the way I was taught, I have to use raw/uncooked foods for the gods and spirits, cooked ones for my ancestors. Ancestors don't mind meat. Gods and spirits I invoke don't want even me to eat it the day of the ritual, and won't accept it for an offering. I respect that.

 

YM, what I'm really eagerly awaiting from you is a post on the peculiarities of the concept of Face as used in Chinese culture, and your reasons for shredding Face rather than giving it, as is more customary. Do you feel Faceless?.. My sympathy if you do. Is that why you're going after other's Face all the time -- to gain some for yourself? But isn't it considered a sure way to lose rather than gain Face, traditionally?.. I don't know, I'm just a lowly guilo, but still... Perplexed.

[YMWong]

Perplexed.

 

so am I at reading your post

 

be well

 

YM

[yiannis]

...but I'm not going to speak about what the religion is supposed to be.

 

Good, neither am I.

 

I can definetely say to you, that eating pork is NOT prohibited in ANY way, in the orthodox or catholic tradition.

 

It's not a perfection of the law, but a loosening of it. When Jesus spoke of changes in the law, he always tended to make them more strict.

 

That is your interpretation (I don't agree) and it is fine by me.

[Taomeow]

so am I at reading your post

 

be well

 

YM

 

Coy or really surprised I noticed?

 

Be well too.

[Gerard]

If you involved in heavy meditation practice the consumption of food is not required. You become a bigu.

 

Now, for the rest:

 

1. Avoid eating meat as it is too Yang and carried impurities.

 

2. Your year of birth will determine any meat requirements. A fire horse like myself living in the southern hemisphere of the world (yang) has no need for meat.

 

3. Pigs are generally fed with everything including rubbish; hence their meat ed this wayoo toxic.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article656359.ece (extreme example)

 

And they think pigs fed this way is the best for them:

 

http://www.ukagriculture.com/livestock/pig_feeding.cfm (poor pigs, be compassionate towards them for their immense suffering)

 

4. The karma, huge stress and fear of the animal before and during its execution releases more toxins into the meat.

 

 

High level Taoists don't eat meat, I can tell you that. For instance, a man for whom the highest level of neigong that is deeply rooted in Ba Gua has purified him to the greatest level:

 

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr5vQm_i09I

 

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/7-9-9/59524.html

 

 

He is a vegetarian, staying away from meat and fish. His favorite food is tomatoes.

 

 

 

Namaste.

 

 

Edited: forgot a word.

Edited November 23, 2008 by durkhrod chogori