An... um interesting site

[Sloppy Zhang]

I mean, I bow to God and connect to the Source. So, they're certainly not opposing camps in my practice...

 

But see that's the thing though, from the conservative Christian point of view, if you really believe in God and accept him then you WOULDN'T continue your practice.

 

The fact that you say you bow to God and continue your practice means that 1) the "God" you bow down to is not really the God of the Bible of *insert your Christian denomination* or 2) you are a liar.

 

That's the point of view you are contending with.

 

Oh, one other thing, a lot of people base their opinions on poorly done research, for example, some think that when you do qigong you summon up the devil, as opposed to learning to use the qi in your body. Anyway, whatever your chosen scenario, if you go up to them and explain what qigong is, they will respond, "no that is not qigong, qigong is devil worship." and you respond with, "no I practice qigong here is what qigong is." They WILL respond with, "no that is NOT qigong you are a liar and are trying to mislead people with your false teachings. Qigong is of satan."

 

(again the above example can be used by replacing qigong with whatever else you want, the point is, if you try and explain what a topic really is, if it contradicts what they believe something to be, YOU are the liar).

 

I'm not trying to bash anyone, but that is how it is.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Sloppy Zhang

[phore]

 

I'm not trying to bash anyone, but that is how it is.

 

I agree. (ok maybe i was bashing a little bit )

 

My above statements were a basic summary of the ideas that were presented to me as i grew to maturity in arkansas (bible belt)

 

It seems illogical. It seemed illogical to me at the time. I followed the examples of others and chose not to think about it. I repressed the thoughts that contradicted the logos as enforced by my parents/church officials/teachers/ superego.

 

Inner thoughts i remember having one day after sunday school

 

Unconditioned thought: If god loves people how can he send people to hell

Conditioned thought: Because that is the way the world is.

Ut: But if hes god why couldnt he create it differently

Ct: He gave people a choice

Ut: but people dont really have a choice they are brought up in a religion and few have the courage to change

Ct: then they deserve to go to hell for not worshiping god and worshiping satan

Ut: If god created everything why create satan and suffering. If god created satan doesnt that mean that god has the potential to be evil as well as good.

Ct: Satan chose his own path when he rebelled against god

Ut: But if god is omnipotent he has to be in control of everything, even satan.

Superego: OMG!!! DOUWANT2GO2H3LL!!! THINK SUMTHING ELZ NOW!!! kthxby.

 

Edited November 25, 2008 by phore

[宁]

You know what's interesting about this?

Jesus himself, and a couple of the saints were accused of the same things: Doing miracles with the help of

Satan. The accused of course couldn't prove otherwise - it'd need to materialize God himself as a testifier.

 

Funny how the story loops around...

 

 

 

 

PS: If Satan didn't exist, he surely would have been invented... You can blame him for ANYTHING.

I've been raised with Protestant BS. Wasted good years of my life. Here's a dedication to them:

 

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_fh6RaafMc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_fh6RaafMc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_fh6RaafMc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Edited November 25, 2008 by Little1

[三江源]

Scott, did you ask Max about the knot in your back and the fact that you believed it was passed onto some people around you?

 

If so, what did he say?

 

Did you ask Vajrasattva? or Yogani?

 

I'd love to know their responses, if you did.

 

Interesting how we can unconsciously influence others.

 

Sorry about the knot in your back. Sounds awful.

[Aetherous]

No I didn't ask anyone.

[SiliconValley]

For myself I'm not necessarily thinking horror flick, but I definitely expected the results of 7 months of spontaneous qigong to be much better. I can't explain why, but I have actually gotten worse health from practicing.

 

 

Scott, if you don't mind, can you share which exact form/school you were referring to here...

[Aetherous]

Kunlun.

[phore]

Kunlun.

 

The inner smile has helped working out the kinks from kunlun. The water chakra meditation did too. Something else i have tried is laying on a tennis bell to massage the effected areas.

[三江源]

No I didn't ask anyone.

 

Fairy nuff.

[Yoda]

Scotty,

 

I have a better picture of where you are coming from now. Sorry Kunlun hasn't worked out but I agree with you that the whole "detoxing/purifying" thing is a bum steer for the most part. A practice should make you feel better with improved health quickly and if it doesn't then ditch it immediately.

 

I think that was the problem with the guy in the story... he ignored the beginnings of problems with his cultivation practice until they really got out of hand. I'm glad he found a system that worked for him in time.

 

It's cool that you are still interested in spontaneous motion practices, I'll be interested in how that pans out. (I can't get past the thought that any one spontaneous motion system is essentially like any other using the downward flow energy, but I've only tried one so I could well be wrong.)

 

Also, I wonder if you had learned Kunlun from Jenny instead of Max if you'd be doing better with the practice as you'd have different mental associations with it?

 

In any case, I'm glad you are catching this issue early on and taking action.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[gendao]

Scotty,

 

I have a better picture of where you are coming from now. Sorry Kunlun hasn't worked out but I agree with you that the whole "detoxing/purifying" thing is a bum steer for the most part. A practice should make you feel better with improved health quickly and if it doesn't then ditch it immediately.

What happened? Scotty got a knot and is not doing Kunlun now? Sorry, that kinda rhymed and I had to say it..

 

Anyhow, I agree that there's always the question of if your body is really detoxing or has simply worsened? There is a lot of mystery to life and our bodies...

 

 

However, Bill Bodri does say that detoxing is a normal and necessary step on the path:

in the earliest stages of spiritual cultivation, all your kundalini and spiritual energies are nearly 100% hijacked into having to clean out this filthy physical body of ours. That's why people often experience all sorts of skin reactions, shaking and other detoxification phenomena with meditation. It's actually healing them and cleaning them out from the insides. Meditation is a superior form of physical cleanse.

 

Detoxification and meditation progress happen hand-in-hand.

 

even the Zen masters of old underwent tremendous detoxification ordeals -- such as the swelling of limbs and ejection poisons out of their skin

Also, Wang Liping did a purification technique where his skin got really dark as he expelled toxins...before becoming very clean afterwards.

 

That said, it's crucial to know the exact cause of your problem. And even if detoxing is part of it, you still want to do what you can to fully support that process - otherwise your body could still get overloaded and real problems arise from that.

 

 

BTW, this part of that guy's story concerned me, and I wonder if it may have been the real problem:

But if someone had displeased me and I felt this person to be a bad person, I would curse him and attack him by imaginative meditation. The result would usually be his getting sick or having some unlucky things happened to him the next day. And the sickness might be with him for a long time. In the practice of qigong, there is a saying which means, "If in three days I had not punished any people, I would be in such low spirit that I could not even walk vigorously." I often enjoyed the delight and satisfaction of punishing people.

It really makes me wonder about a hi-level qigong guy stooping to such low ethical levels...WTF? Cursing people? I think that's a major no-no in most any tradition.

 

Anyhow, sound familiar? He curses others with bad luck...and then he ended up getting lots of bad luck himself? So, perhaps his real problem here was fair KARMA, not QIGONG?

Edited November 25, 2008 by vortex

[Aetherous]

About the differences between spontaneous practices: I think it was sitting in a chair doing it that wasn't so good for me. It feels better standing up, and I started walking around and moving more leg to leg.

 

I also think that keeping the arms in the posture, once the spontaneous motion sets in, isn't a good idea. And for the first few months that's what I did.

 

I know it's encouraged to let go and let whatever happens, but it seems that either I wasn't able to let go and get out of the chair, or that the energy wasn't having me get out of the chair.

 

Placing restrictions on what to do during the practice isn't good...and that's what was done in kunlun. Standing up was said to be risky because you could get too much energy for what you could handle...but if you're spontaneously standing up like most people have been, then what do you do? For myself, I tried to listen to the advice of the teachers and I thought staying in the chair was the best choice. Maybe that wasn't the case.

 

We'll see if my health problems diminish, and then at least for myself I'll have proof that doing it standing is better. If they don't diminish (I will give it a good amount of time) then I will probably move on.

 

About "mental associations" with Kunlun: I don't have any. I got over the weirdness of Max and whatever pretty quick and was really into it, but my symptoms can't be ignored. I've had really tired eyes, intestinal problems (like gurgling constantly), deep zits, and the knot that radiates and actually started spreading down my right arm. And other practitioners have had negative symptoms with it as well...so I think it's something to be addressed.

 

I still think Kunlun is a good path. I'm still a kunluner. But I just think that the spontaneous part isn't so great. I still consider RP to be amazing. I'm taking a break though to get my health back in order.

 

Oh...and the downward flow for Kunlun and Shuichuan I find to be the same energy.

[SiliconValley]

Thank you! I only asked because I know you are taking the new course for which I enrolled as well. Wishing you speedy good health.

 

Yeah, I tried it for a month too without doing anything else at that time and it did not seriously go well probably due to my previous practices or something. There were a few nightmares which sort of disturbed me and I spoke to three people who I value one of who is my Teacher. All the three asked me to stop practicing it. Even before I mentioned I was doing Qigong, my teacher asked if I was practicing Falun Gong based on an energy check and that was kind of discouraging. Another traditional mode of divination instructed me to stop as well.

 

Anyway, there are also Bums who seem have found good things with the practice. But one thing I agree with Max is that Kunlun is not Kundalini.

Edited November 25, 2008 by SiliconValley

[sunshine]

my teacher asked if I was practicing Falun Gong based on an energy check and that was kind of discouraging. Another traditional mode of divination instructed me to stop as well.

 

Are you still practicing Falung Gong?

 

 

Harry

[SiliconValley]

Are you still practicing Falung Gong?

 

 

Harry

 

 

Naaaw ... I never did, even once

[sunshine]

Naaaw ... I never did, even once

 

Umpf... so what did you mean then? Where you dissatisfied that your teacher was wrong

or was he hinting at something similar to Falun Gong...

if so: what did he imply? good? bad? nothing?

 

 

Harry

[SiliconValley]

Umpf... so what did you mean then? Where you dissatisfied that your teacher was wrong

or was he hinting at something similar to Falun Gong...

if so: what did he imply? good? bad? nothing?

 

 

Harry

 

 

I was practicing Kunlun but he felt I was doing Falun. Typically his scan is razor sharp and precise. I tried to explain this was not Falun but he kept insisting it seemed similar. I did not try to further argue for I was not feeling good about the practice either and felt best to discontinue. I was however a little sad for after all the discussion here, I was all set for quick and easy Enlightenment

 

Yeah, my teacher brought me back to my senses...

Edited November 25, 2008 by SiliconValley

[hyok]

lately I've been thinking about the different practices out there, and I'm becoming very weary about systems that offer super-fast results as a selling point. I like results as much as the next person, but having been a businessman for over a decade, i'm beginning to see the selling points overpowering what may be a need for qualitative control as well as safety precautions in some cases.

[sunshine]

Yeah, my teacher brought me back to my senses...

 

Thank you much for sharing What system are you practicing with this teacher?

 

 

Harry

[mgd]

Edited December 4, 2008 by mgd

[SiliconValley]

Thank you much for sharing What system are you practicing with this teacher?

 

 

Harry

 

Hi Harry,

 

Actually he is not associated primarily with Taosim. He is my teacher for Kashmiri Shaivism, Advaita and Mantras. But he has trained in Tai chi, Qigong, Bagua, Arhatic Yoga, Reiki etc. His primary energetic practice though is Kundalini Kriyas.

 

As for Falun, last time I asked about it here was when this discussion happened with my Teacher. That was when you gave me some very clear and helpful answers.

Edited November 26, 2008 by SiliconValley

[Aetherous]

What she teaches feels totally different than Kunlun, and I find the energy to be balanced and have never had to use grounding exercises after it.

 

I haven't tried taking Jenny's seminar...but I wanted to add for the record:

 

After like 6 months of Kunlun, I finally got some good spiritual results. I found the energy to be balanced.

 

But despite having a great downward flow, my health problems stayed. I think "closing down" made things worse, because I'd get very tired after close down. I would literally close down, then go lie on my bed and pass out. Wake up all groggy.

 

Now I haven't been closing down, and I feel fine. Those deep zits have disappeared. My knot is hardly there. My gut is still gurgling a bit. We'll see if things truly improve.

 

But it's the same downward flow of peaceful freeing energy. So that's my experience.

[Yoda]

Great thread! Thanks mgd for adding that!

 

I am just stuck on the belief that spontaneous systems are all pretty much the same shamanistic thing whatever the religion, teacher, philosophy, era etc.

[sunshine]

As for Falun, last time I asked about it here was when this discussion happened with my Teacher. That was when you gave me some very clear and helpful answers.

 

Thankx much for your helpful answers in return

 

Harry

[mgd]

Edited December 4, 2008 by mgd