Reason for Ethics and not FREEDOM DESIRED

[Mak_Tin_Si]

As requested from the moderator of TaoBum, I have moved to this forum : http://www.daoismworld.com right now.

 

So if you want to talk to me or ask me anything about Taoism, please feel free to go over to this forum and enjoy the new forum. New members for discussion are also welcomed.

 

http://www.daoismworld.com

 

Mak Tin Si

Edited January 8, 2009 by Mak_Tin_Si

[YMWong]

In Taoism, it is the same. When you do not learn from a master you do not know what Tao really is. [...]

 

KTS,

 

since you keep talking about the importance of a Master and a traditional lineage would you mind share with us your lineage i.e. name of at least 3-4 teacher, grandteacher etc. above you.

Also, as your actual line 道派 seems to be a new one (am I correct to read you are the first in this line ?) can you tell us what original Daoist lines where your teachers from and a few more related informations ?

 

Thanks

 

YM

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Our lineage is a new one, and the teacher I learned from is one from Dragon-Tiger Mountain but not the one in China that is on newspaper right now. This is a master in the mountain who get out of Dragon-Tiger mountain because they are going to go immortal soon. That is the reason why I cannot tell you their names and their branch because it will ruin their training.

 

We have also been passed the taoism knowledge from master YUEN CHI DAI GWAN 元始帝君 and he is the one who granted us the branch of 悟然道派 Chi in Nature. He and Jeung Dai Ling 張道陵 is the one who grant us the pose of 天師 Tin Si. You can find the information on my temple's website.

 

Long story.

 

www.taoismcanada.com

 

 

KTS,

 

since you keep talking about the importance of a Master and a traditional lineage would you mind share with us your lineage i.e. name of at least 3-4 teacher, grandteacher etc. above you.

Also, as your actual line 道派 seems to be a new one (am I correct to read you are the first in this line ?) can you tell us what original Daoist lines where your teachers from and a few more related informations ?

 

Thanks

 

YM

[YMWong]

Our lineage is a new one, and the teacher I learned from is one from Dragon-Tiger Mountain but not the one in China that is on newspaper right now. This is a master in the mountain who get out of Dragon-Tiger mountain because they are going to go immortal soon. That is the reason why I cannot tell you their names and their branch because it will ruin their training.

 

We have also been passed the taoism knowledge from master YUEN CHI DAI GWAN 元始帝君 and he is the one who granted us the branch of 悟然道派 Chi in Nature. He and Jeung Dai Ling 張道陵 is the one who grant us the pose of 天師 Tin Si. You can find the information on my temple's website.

 

Long story.

 

I see.

So one is a secret one that we cannot know because us knowing might ruin his training.

The other(s) are immortals/divinities descended from Heaven to teach you.

 

Great

 

YM

[Mak_Tin_Si]

That's right. Just like how Jeung Dao Ling have got his knowledge passed from LaoZi the immortal in the past and formed this branch.

 

 

 

I see.

So one is a secret one that we cannot know because us knowing might ruin his training.

The other(s) are immortals/divinities descended from Heaven to teach you.

 

Great

 

YM

[YMWong]

That's right. Just like how Jeung Dao Ling have got his knowledge passed from LaoZi the immortal in the past and formed this branch.

 

It's nice of you to put yourself at the same level of Zhang Daoling, the founder of Daoism 2000 years ago.

 

Very Daoist, especially in a thread you titled 'Daoist' *Ethics* ... LOL

 

YM

Edited November 26, 2008 by YMWong

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Of course I am not as powerful as Zhang DaoLing, but of course I am on the same route because I am training under his supervision also.

 

 

 

It's nice of you to put yourself at the same level of Zhang Daoling, the founder of Daoism 2000 years ago.

 

Very Daoist, especially in a thread you titled 'Daoist' *Ethics* ... LOL

 

YM

[YMWong]

So if you studied with a Dragon-Tiger (Zhengyi) Master you should have received registers 受錄 right ?

 

YM

[Mak_Tin_Si]

I told you that Dragon-Tiger mountain now is a messed up place already, you can look at their news recently, and these registers are made for money in the past only. They are approved by the government and the mountain but not heaven. Good Luck to those fame lovers.

 

You can give one to yourself too. But Heaven do not accept it.

 

You can see now the news are saying 64th gen TinSi's stamp is fake, so who ever got these registers are fake anyways. Waste of money and time.

 

That is also why my master's branch have get rid of the mountain long time ago. They do not want to get involved in these politics which will ruin their trianing to immortality.

 

 

 

 

 

So if you studied with a Dragon-Tiger (Zhengyi) Master you should have received registers 受錄 right ?

 

YM

[fiveelementtao]

Mak Tin Si,

Thank for this thread on the importance of Taoist Ethics,

Can you please explain the importance of Humility, Compassion, Tolerance and Love in Taoism? When does a master teach these ethics to his student?

Thank you for your knowledge...

[YMWong]

I told you that Dragon-Tiger mountain now is a messed up place already, you can look at their news recently, and these registers are made for money in the past only. They are approved by the government and the mountain but not heaven. Good Luck to those fame lovers.

 

You can give one to yourself too. But Heaven do not accept it.

 

You can see now the news are saying 64th gen TinSi's stamp is fake, so who ever got these registers are fake anyways. Waste of money and time.

 

That is also why my master's branch have get rid of the mountain long time ago. They do not want to get involved in these politics which will ruin their trianing to immortality.

 

I did not ask about the situation in China, I asked if YOU received a register

 

YM

[Mak_Tin_Si]

My pose is Tin-Si, so I do give out registers. Of course I have them. I have a whole set from master and a whole set from heaven immortals. What does that have to do with you anyway? I cannot see why you want to know that and what does that have to do with you???

 

If I am granted the pose of Tin-Si, of course I have what a Tin-Si is suppose to have.

 

 

I did not ask about the situation in China, I asked if YOU received a register

 

YM

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Thank you for replying the post.

 

Humility, compassion, tolerance and love in Taoism are all learned from Taoism trianing experience. Here maybe I can give an example of learning "tolerance" in Taoism training when you are learning under one lineage that teach you FU stuff.

 

When you learn how to do ghost busting, most people go too aggressive, they think that ghost or bad spirits are there for you to go and bust out. Then most people will just go ahead and use all the FU they can to kick out the ghost for others. During the mean while, they will have lots of failures becaues they will find out that these ghosts may not just leave.. they are there for a reason.. on the other side, the Taoist broke the rules of nature becaues they harmed innocent ghost. On the pay back effect, the ghost will be able to harm the taoist indeed. The taoist then will learn how to be patient, listen to their clients, check the whole case, make sure everything first, and then do things careful. On the other side, if you do have tolerance, you can let the ghost harm YOU first and then you will have enough evidence to bust the ghost out. (becaues you are the innocent one) That is just an example of how people learn in FU lineage.

 

The others are also learned by experience too. There is no such TEXT on the topic because you must learn it by experience with the training in TAOISM. Also, one do not tolerate people because their "fire" is too violent. Like bad temper. So the best way is to do more scriptures on "CHING JING SUM GING" and decrease the amount of fire in the person. Or you can go through the trianing and know WHY you have all these bad temper. Maybe because of the bad energy you have accumulated through out years. So you cna cleanse them out with your skills.

 

The others are like that too. You have to find out WHY you do not do well in such virtue. Then you can know HOW you can solve it. It is not about UNDERSTANDING or REALIZSING. It is about knowing the cause and effect in nature that brings you the bad character you have realized. Then you can solve it by going backward and solving the initial cause of the problem.

 

IE: Some people cannot go along nicely with their parents all the time. They just always argue and fight. So a Taoist have to go through lots of trianing. Then they might find out, oh, it is because in my past life, I have such and such matters with my parents, so now they are paying-back on me. Then you learn to be good and tolerance to them so they can pay back everything. Then after all the stuff are paid back, they won't argue with you anymore. The other way is the son/daugther have to learn how to be even BETTER to the parents to pay the debt. Then soon, the relationship will get much better.

 

 

 

Mak Tin Si,

Thank for this thread on the importance of Taoist Ethics,

Can you please explain the importance of Humility, Compassion, Tolerance and Love in Taoism? When does a master teach these ethics to his student?

Thank you for your knowledge...

[Ryan T.]

My pose is Tin-Si, so I do give out registers. Of course I have them. I have a whole set from master and a whole set from heaven immortals. What does that have to do with you anyway? I cannot see why you want to know that and what does that have to do with you???

 

I imagine they are asking because you write about the value of master-student relationship and writing as if you are giving instruction to your students as a master. You value lineage but seem unwilling to produce one. It may not be convenient to expose your masters' backgrounds but hardly seems of value to talk about lineage then. I have my martial arts teachers, not Taoist masters(but they might be). If I speak about their skills or teachings I certainly can back it up with the lineage that I am associated with. Your responses come off as the ubiquitous "the master's teachings came to me in a dream".

 

Remember, real gold does not fear the fire!

[benny]

Secrecy is done.

 

It is time for the practice to be front page news.

 

This is not a joke.

 

THE TIME IS NOW!!!!!!

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Of course real gold does not fear the fire. Martial arts kungfu is different from Taoism stuff. Kungfu is something on earth, Taoism knowledge is something in the universe, and there is something call TIN GEI, the universal secret.天機.

 

If you break the rules of universe, you break your own linkage too. If you do not understand this, that is because you haven't get into the taoism religion yet. There is no way I can explain that with kungfu. Because kungfu dose not have these kind of things. Unless you are in WuDang branch.

 

In WuDang branch, they teach you a way to open the 3rd eye. (example) and if you break their rules by telling people about who pass it onto you and how you practise it etc,. Then you loose it instantly. That is something set by the lineage, a rule to prevent people from ruining the lineage energy. Same with taoism.

 

If you want to learn, I am willing to teach, but if you are willing to challenge, I don't want to waste my time with you talking about something that nobody will benefit from. The forum is for people to share and learn. Not for people to judge about others knowledge. If you want to judge, look into my post(s) in the future and you can find real knowledge.

 

 

 

 

I imagine they are asking because you write about the value of master-student relationship and writing as if you are giving instruction to your students as a master. You value lineage but seem unwilling to produce one. It may not be convenient to expose your masters' backgrounds but hardly seems of value to talk about lineage then. I have my martial arts teachers, not Taoist masters(but they might be). If I speak about their skills or teachings I certainly can back it up with the lineage that I am associated with. Your responses come off as the ubiquitous "the master's teachings came to me in a dream".

 

Remember, real gold does not fear the fire!

[Ryan T.]

If you want to learn, I am willing to teach, but if you are willing to challenge, I don't want to waste my time with you talking about something that nobody will benefit from. The forum is for people to share and learn. Not for people to judge about others knowledge. If you want to judge, look into my post(s) in the future and you can find real knowledge.

 

You asked the question so I answered based on what I was reading.

 

You seem to look at Taoism like the elders of the Judaism-Christian schools. "Just have faith in what I say." "I have the true word of [insert belief system here]."

 

You seem to want people to get something out of what you are typing, as in some type of master-student relationship. Yet you are unwilling to answer even the most basic of questions regarding your lineage. Spiritual seekers have questions. Does your tradition discourage questions and challenges?

 

Judging you and your words is not my point.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Haven't I told you my lineage already? Please read.

 

Who know now which master teach Zhang DaoLing or even Saam Mao Jian Gwan?

 

I told you mine is from an immortal in the mountain in China, and also from Zhang DaoLing Directly and that is why we are granted the pose of Tin Si from him. Zhang DaoLing got his lineage from LaoZi, do you question Zhang DaoLing? How come you can accept HIS lineage from LaoZi and not mine from HIM?? Crazy.

 

Challenge? as in what? How you want to challenge me? Just by knowing my lineage will make some more sense to you on this topic about ethics in taoism? Oh mine. You guys are going so much OT here to just get this out. So naive.

 

 

 

 

You asked the question so I answered based on what I was reading.

 

You seem to look at Taoism like the elders of the Judaism-Christian schools. "Just have faith in what I say." "I have the true word of [insert belief system here]."

 

You seem to want people to get something out of what you are typing, as in some type of master-student relationship. Yet you are unwilling to answer even the most basic of questions regarding your lineage. Spiritual seekers have questions. Does your tradition discourage questions and challenges?

 

Judging you and your words is not my point.

[YMWong]

My pose is Tin-Si, so I do give out registers. Of course I have them. I have a whole set from master and a whole set from heaven immortals. What does that have to do with you anyway? I cannot see why you want to know that and what does that have to do with you???

 

If I am granted the pose of Tin-Si, of course I have what a Tin-Si is suppose to have.

 

If you have what you should, as you say, then I guess there is no problem to let us know:

 

- your generation and related character

- the kind of register 錄 you have and what degree 品 you are entitled

- a precise description of the General that governs your birth and the associated mantra

 

I have to add that this information is not a secret in the Zhengyi sect and actually is shared when requested by fellow Daoists to recognize each others.

 

For your information, I am a 'Da' 大 character.

 

YM

Edited November 27, 2008 by YMWong

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Who said I am a Zhen Yi student? Zhen Yi was passed onto me from Zhang DaoLing also, so I do have the knowledge of ZhenYi in my branch of Chi in Nature, but I am not their 'student'.

 

Does Dragon-Tiger mountain ONLY have Zhen Yi??? Please do more research on history. What you are knowing right now is what the government maade and control of in china. not in Taoism.

 

Taoist who are approved in Zhen Yi now are only named from the GOVERNMENT in China. Not Taoism.

 

If you have what you should, as you say, then I guess there is no problem to let us know:

 

- your generation and related character

- the kind of register 錄 you have and what degree 品 you are entitled

- a precise description of the General that governs your birth and the associated mantra

 

I have to add that this information is not a secret in the Zhengyi sect and actually is shared when requested by fellow Daoists to recognize each others.

 

For your information, I am a 'Da' 大 character.

 

YM

 

 

add on point -

 

 

You can even check, the 64th tin si is prooved FAKE now. 'finally'

 

But since long time ago, they already have problems in that ZhenYi branch. I am not rude enough to tell you waht happen but good luck if you are leanring those government controlled sect.

 

If you have what you should, as you say, then I guess there is no problem to let us know:

 

- your generation and related character

- the kind of register 錄 you have and what degree 品 you are entitled

- a precise description of the General that governs your birth and the associated mantra

 

I have to add that this information is not a secret in the Zhengyi sect and actually is shared when requested by fellow Daoists to recognize each others.

 

For your information, I am a 'Da' 大 character.

 

YM

 

 

add on point -

 

 

You can even check, the 64th tin si is prooved FAKE now. 'finally'

 

But since long time ago, they already have problems in that ZhenYi branch. I am not rude enough to tell you waht happen but good luck if you are leanring those government controlled sect.

 

If you have what you should, as you say, then I guess there is no problem to let us know:

 

- your generation and related character

- the kind of register 錄 you have and what degree 品 you are entitled

- a precise description of the General that governs your birth and the associated mantra

 

I have to add that this information is not a secret in the Zhengyi sect and actually is shared when requested by fellow Daoists to recognize each others.

 

For your information, I am a 'Da' 大 character.

 

YM

[YMWong]

I see and understand where you are coming from, as expected

 

Be well and good luck to those falling for your costumes ...

 

YM

Edited November 27, 2008 by YMWong

[YMWong]

look into my post(s) in the future and you can find real knowledge.

 

LOL

 

YM

[Ryan T.]

So naive.

 

So who's judging who? This must be the ethics you are trying to speak to.

 

I am sorry if you have been put on the defensive. I was just trying to clarify inconsistencies in what I was reading.

[fiveelementtao]

Mak Tin Si,

Thank you for your answer. Will you please explain more about tolerance for other religions. Is Taoism superior to other religions?

 

Thank you for replying the post.

 

Humility, compassion, tolerance and love in Taoism are all learned from Taoism trianing experience. Here maybe I can give an example of learning "tolerance" in Taoism training when you are learning under one lineage that teach you FU stuff.

 

When you learn how to do ghost busting, most people go too aggressive, they think that ghost or bad spirits are there for you to go and bust out. Then most people will just go ahead and use all the FU they can to kick out the ghost for others. During the mean while, they will have lots of failures becaues they will find out that these ghosts may not just leave.. they are there for a reason.. on the other side, the Taoist broke the rules of nature becaues they harmed innocent ghost. On the pay back effect, the ghost will be able to harm the taoist indeed. The taoist then will learn how to be patient, listen to their clients, check the whole case, make sure everything first, and then do things careful. On the other side, if you do have tolerance, you can let the ghost harm YOU first and then you will have enough evidence to bust the ghost out. (becaues you are the innocent one) That is just an example of how people learn in FU lineage.

 

The others are also learned by experience too. There is no such TEXT on the topic because you must learn it by experience with the training in TAOISM. Also, one do not tolerate people because their "fire" is too violent. Like bad temper. So the best way is to do more scriptures on "CHING JING SUM GING" and decrease the amount of fire in the person. Or you can go through the trianing and know WHY you have all these bad temper. Maybe because of the bad energy you have accumulated through out years. So you cna cleanse them out with your skills.

 

The others are like that too. You have to find out WHY you do not do well in such virtue. Then you can know HOW you can solve it. It is not about UNDERSTANDING or REALIZSING. It is about knowing the cause and effect in nature that brings you the bad character you have realized. Then you can solve it by going backward and solving the initial cause of the problem.

 

IE: Some people cannot go along nicely with their parents all the time. They just always argue and fight. So a Taoist have to go through lots of trianing. Then they might find out, oh, it is because in my past life, I have such and such matters with my parents, so now they are paying-back on me. Then you learn to be good and tolerance to them so they can pay back everything. Then after all the stuff are paid back, they won't argue with you anymore. The other way is the son/daugther have to learn how to be even BETTER to the parents to pay the debt. Then soon, the relationship will get much better.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Taoism dose not give any restriction of religion. They don't really care about what religion is out there and what you believe in. Whoever want to go into Taoism they are welcome to go. But if you decide to become a taoist, you must stay in Taoism and not give up just like how buddhist too. Therefore, there are some branches in Taoism that have a special entree stage for the students that is religion-free. So they are learning like a taoist but not a taoist yet, so they get to choose and try out taoism.

 

 

Mak Tin Si,

Thank you for your answer. Will you please explain more about tolerance for other religions. Is Taoism superior to other religions?

 

 

I cannot see what is so funny. What I am doing is posting and sharing stuff just like how I did here on the radio station every week to share taoism info for the public. I do not see how you are benefitcial to the others in the forum, a zhen yi student? How does your master teach and talk to you? Like the tone of how I post stuff? I cannot believe who is speaking here now is laughing at themselve.

 

 

 

LOL

 

YM