Tao Meditation

[modestman]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm fairly new to Tao, I love the philosophy part of it and the Tao Te Ching really helps me experience a state of peace. I feel my next goal is to begin meditation so that I can become more aware in everyday life.

 

I am wondering if anyone can help me along finding a Tao approach to meditation. I have been self-meditating for months now with no real guide so to speak. I just concentrate on my breathing and the flow of energy. Do any of you fellow taobums have any recommendations or approaches that should help me get on my way or guide me along in my meditations? I am doing basic meditations as relaxing the body but I hear there is more you can do with energy and other aspects of body-mind.

 

I'm thinking about attending a Vispassana retreat and wondering if this would be beneficial or inflict with an original Tao approach of meditation.

 

Cheers

[fiveelementtao]

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Hi everyone,

I'm fairly new to Tao, I love the philosophy part of it and the Tao Te Ching really helps me experience a state of peace. I feel my next goal is to begin meditation so that I can become more aware in everyday life.

I am wondering if anyone can help me along finding a Tao approach to meditation. I have been self-meditating for months now with no real guide so to speak. I just concentrate on my breathing and the flow of energy. Do any of you fellow taobums have any recommendations or approaches that should help me get on my way or guide me along in my meditations? I am doing basic meditations as relaxing the body but I hear there is more you can do with energy and other aspects of body-mind.

I'm thinking about attending a Vispassana retreat and wondering if this would be beneficial or inflict with an original Tao approach of meditation.

Cheers

[Guest sykkelpump]

I think this is the easiest for a beginner.Remember all meditations have the same goal just diffrent ways to get there.a thougtless mind.

 

http://meditationexpert.com/ebok/howtomeditate.pdf

[Creation]

B. K. Frantzis teaches a Taoist meditation method called dissolving. Outer dissolving is the preliminary practice performed while doing standing qigong. When you get the basics down you move to inner dissolving, a sitting practice. The idea is that by refining awareness you can detect physical, energetic, emotional, mental, etc. blockages and then intentionally "dissolve" them into a freely flowing state. When all your blockages are dissolved and your entire being is integrated you become the "Real Man" of the Yi Jing and can truly live in the way described in the Dao De Jing.

 

I can't speak from experience yet because I'm just getting started on this. It seems kind of hard to learn from a book. I read the description of the method and thought, "Yes that sounds nice but how do you actually do it?" Any other Bums have thoughts on this? And Frantizis' seminars are not cheap... Yet of all the methods I have read about it seems the closest to the ideas of Lao Zi et. al.

 

Here are some references (all by B. K. Frantzis):

 

Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body

Chapters 5-8 cover breathing, alignments, and outer dissolving in detail.

 

Relaxing into Your Being

The most inspiring and complete description of the process of meditation from the Taoist perspective I've read. It discusses breath-based meditation in detail, and touches on the standing, basic moving, and outer dissolving practices but it is really not too practical.

 

The Great Stillness

Sequel to Relaxing into your being, it goes into more depth about the theory/process of dissolving and gives a whiz-bang tour of moving, sexual, and alchemical practices. Even less practical than its prequel.

 

I hope this helps, or at least prompts further discussion.

-Tyler

[modestman]

thanks for your contribution

 

to be a little more specific im focused on not necessarily the martial arts aspect of it. I'm more focused on inner meditation. Another thing hopefully someone could clarify for me; I hear all the time about reverse-breathing vs diaphram breathing. Now I know if I do reverse breathing I can picture the flow better rising up my spine on the inhale and going down my body on the exhale, but I feel that if I do diaphram breathing I could possibly take in more air. Anyone know which method is the proper method, or is it only really a matter of preference?

 

Cheers

[Aetherous]

I think the proper method is allowing the breath to do what it needs to while having correct spinal alignment, and a dissolved mind. If the mind isn't dissolved, then be aware of those parts which are manifesting, until they disappear.

 

Any conscious act of controlling the breath directly is dangerous. That's my opinion.

[YMWong]

Now I know if I do reverse breathing I can picture the flow better rising up my spine on the inhale and going down my body on the exhale, but I feel that if I do diaphram breathing I could possibly take in more air.

 

(One of) The goal of reverse breathing is not to 'take in more air'.

On the contrary it is to reach 'internal breathing' where little (or no) air is actually involved

 

YM

[doc benway]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm fairly new to Tao, I love the philosophy part of it and the Tao Te Ching really helps me experience a state of peace. I feel my next goal is to begin meditation so that I can become more aware in everyday life.

 

I am wondering if anyone can help me along finding a Tao approach to meditation. I have been self-meditating for months now with no real guide so to speak. I just concentrate on my breathing and the flow of energy. Do any of you fellow taobums have any recommendations or approaches that should help me get on my way or guide me along in my meditations? I am doing basic meditations as relaxing the body but I hear there is more you can do with energy and other aspects of body-mind.

 

I'm thinking about attending a Vispassana retreat and wondering if this would be beneficial or inflict with an original Tao approach of meditation.

 

Cheers

Here are a few thoughts on the subject.

 

Daoist cultivation involves meditative methods and a curriculum of exercises which are unique and quite a bit different from methods in the Buddhist and Hindu traditions. Until you find a qualified Daoist instructor, any of the legitimate meditative methods are a very good start - Vipassana is beautiful. They all help develop a peaceful being and tranquility centered in awareness. This is a wonderful ground upon which to practice the Daoist exercises. You may find that once practicing Vipassana or any other method, the desire to study specifically a Daoist method is less important.

 

I personally do not advocate learning Daoist methods from impersonal sources. There is a quality of interaction between teacher and student as well as subtleties of technique that are very difficult to capture in words. Furthermore, the progression through the curriculum must be tailored to the individual student's progress and the feedback between teacher and student is critical to determine this. There is no way for the student to gauge their level of skill as they have no frame of reference from which to assess where they're at. I study with a teacher and I've read through a fair amount of the written stuff available in books and on the web. IMO, even the most basic stuff is poorly served in writing. Most of the written stuff is very misleading. The philosophical, metaphysical, and intellectual aspects are necessarily emphasized in words whereas the experiential and practical aspect, which is the heart and soul of Daoist practice, is largely lost on the page.

 

Until the universe provides you with a qualified Daoist teacher, Vipassana is a very good way to begin to prepare yourself and it may just end up being exactly what you need - after all, it's there. Much better to begin a worthwhile practice with a qualified instructor than toy around with Daoist methods using a book, video, or the web. Just my $.02.

[modestman]

I totally agree that having an instructor is much better than reading from a book. But I cannot seem to find any Dao centers around my area.

 

I live in Niagara Falls, and we have a Buddhist temple which I might head down to talk to someone. But I find Buddhism meditation is a lot different than Tao meditation. It seems as if the Buddhists focus on the suffering and pain until it no longer bothers them, whereas I take it to believe that Tao meditation is all 'natural' so to speak and the teachings looked into the light of things and that of all being natural. I know they both require concentrate and a peaceful mind, but it seems that Buddhism takes it serious by dwelling on the pain and suffering rather than finding the light. I might be wrong but from my gatherings of information this is the impression I got.

 

Cheers

[doc benway]

... It seems as if the Buddhists focus on the suffering and pain until it no longer bothers them, whereas I take it to believe that Tao meditation is all 'natural' so to speak and the teachings looked into the light of things and that of all being natural. I know they both require concentrate and a peaceful mind, but it seems that Buddhism takes it serious by dwelling on the pain and suffering rather than finding the light. I might be wrong but from my gatherings of information this is the impression I got.

 

Cheers

I'm not a Buddhist but my experience has been that Buddhist meditation practice, for the most part, does not dwell on suffering and pain. The theory is more about that aspect than is the practice. Vipassana, for example, is all about awakening to your true being. It is actually a Hindu method that predates Buddhism and did not develop out of the Buddhist theories associated with the nature of suffering. The Buddhists rightly recognized, however, that it is an effective method for transcending human suffering and therefore adopted it.

 

Certainly there are techniques that appear to be associated with pain and suffering, superficially, such as meditations on death and decay; however, the practical exercise of such a meditation really is not at all morbid or depressing - to the contrary, it is quite liberating.

 

If anything, Vipassana, Chan, Zen and related forms of meditation are actually a more direct method of approaching the issue of the fundamental nature of existence than are Daoist methods. In my experience, Daoist methods have a lot more complexity. Ultimately, they are all pointing at the same reality using different methods flavored with their unique cultural biases.

 

Good luck!

[exorcist_1699]

Tao embodies in this world through qi ,and , by meditation , we get in touch with this qi in our body .

Both Buddhism and Taoism rely on meditation to attain emancipation , but comparing with Taoism ,

Buddhism seldom mentions qi .

 

Some Buddhist masters even say that replying on meditation towards some kind of spiritual emancipation

is like grinding a piece of brick , and , try to make it into a piece of mirror. How sharply they point out the

the trap of unproductive meditation . Mindless thought can be an achievement , but it also can be nothing

significant . It even does not lead you to any healthy life . Sitting there for hours without initiating qi or a

bigger vivid mind ( ie, you get a static, dull mind ) definitely makes you sick.

 

Taoist meditation seems better . Even if you do not get any significant spiritual achievement , you get a

healthier body after years of practice and there is no waste of time . ( There is exception : you follow reverse

breathing or deliberately circulate qi around your body ...#$%^&*?~ ways , you put yourself in danger)

 

However, in order to get greater achievement , reading Buddhist , especially Zen's ,book is definitely

important .

Edited November 29, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[宁]

Taoist meditation seems better . Even if you do not get any significant spiritual achievement , you get a

healthier body after years of practice and there is no waste of time .

 

Exactly. And health is like gold. Once you really have it, and know how to get it, you can't ever get enough.

The more you have, the more you'll want. And it's a great way to start your journey with the Tao - the Tao that doesn't care about gender, race, relligion, or space and time.

[seadog]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm fairly new to Tao, I love the philosophy part of it and the Tao Te Ching really helps me experience a state of peace. I feel my next goal is to begin meditation so that I can become more aware in everyday life.

 

I am wondering if anyone can help me along finding a Tao approach to meditation. I have been self-meditating for months now with no real guide so to speak. I just concentrate on my breathing and the flow of energy. Do any of you fellow taobums have any recommendations or approaches that should help me get on my way or guide me along in my meditations? I am doing basic meditations as relaxing the body but I hear there is more you can do with energy and other aspects of body-mind.

 

I'm thinking about attending a Vispassana retreat and wondering if this would be beneficial or inflict with an original Tao approach of meditation.

 

Cheers

Hi Modest,There is a five elements college for acupuncture and moxibustion on the Canadian side of the Falls.

the web address is www.ongiaracollege.ca

They may be able to point you in the right direction or perhaps something even more

Edited November 29, 2008 by seadog