KAP London Workshop

[goldisheavy]

Pak's strength is not from "conditioning" as we think. It comes from cimande "breathing" (tenaga Dalam) and doing his Jurus, also from receiving the blessings from his teachers. This is done by "zikr" recitation as the bones in arms hands legs & feet are beaten by a master that has true inner power and then rubbed with Balur Oil with "Zikr" and healing massage. I went through this "initiation" in the UK. It is very PAINFUL! I can tell you that after words the bones are "different" as are the muscles and tendons. It is 100% from transmission. Not from "training". Sure you can train and get "stronger" but the initiation & transmission is key. with out that it takes much longer to achieve.

 

I understand. I don't see what is the point of remembering God and getting beaten at the same time though. If you remember God, you don't need to also get slapped.

 

There are different ways to transfer the symbol's power to oneself. Training is one such way. When we train, we try to convince ourselves that we can assume a new identity. Another way is through an initiation ritual. Another way is through magic. But basically it's all the same in the sense that the body is a construct of mind, and it can be made to have whatever quality you want.

 

Do you ever wonder why do some people get big muscles from lifting weights and others do not? It has nothing to do with the weights and the regiment, but it has to do with the intent and the envisioning of one's own new body. This is also why some people stop growing muscles after some time, or stop gaining strength, it's because they have beliefs that block further manifestation.

 

Interesting people you hang with. Have you had any success stepping outside the recipes yet?

 

believe me he knows where he stands. You are not him nor have his ability nor his humility nor his level. Its not a false humility. He has true "ILMU GURU SEJATI" (True Inner Self power). It is the highest form of Ilmu Kebatinan and development. But even with such things he recognizes that it is coming 100% from the true source within & with out. ALLAH is much more than what we can "comprehend"....

 

Sounds mysterious! You have piqued my interest.

 

Let me ask you something "gold is heavy"..can you create planets yet? Can you create life out of nothing?

 

I can.

 

How about more mundane things???

 

Can you cure cancers? Aids? Can you cure people of their ailments with out effort? Can you treat 30 people or more a day and not sleep and not get tired and not be affected by the energies, karmas etc you take on?

 

Of course! Don't you know anything?

 

What Pak does is almost "saint" like in my book.

 

You respect him deeply and that is fine. But keep this in mind, the mind has LIMITLESS ability to manifest anything. You can emanate a Guru that is 10000 billion times more impressive, and that Guru will also be an illusion.

 

Even in true Bon po the highest tantric lama offers his abilities and all his attributes to the highest "non" conceptual mind both within & with out. There is nothing higher than complete self surrender to the ultimate DIVINE nature.

 

There is something higher. It's called a recognition of not having anything to surrender. But you can't fake it though. If you don't have an authentic recognition, you really should surrender, but don't be stupid. Keep your mind open and critical as you surrender. What are you surrendering to? Who is doing the surrendering? Can power divest of itself?

 

The Sufi calls it ALLAH. Islam is that "surrendering" the real Jihad is killing ones ego & negative nature.

 

ALLAH is much more than just what we comprehend as a "God" or the "true self".

 

I am positive you do not know yet what ALLAH knows. I make no such claims either.

 

Peace & God Bless

Santiago

 

You are positive? What are you Allah? You just make conjecture. I know what Allah knows, don't doubt it. But keep in mind my intention too.

[Aetherous]

Goldisheavy,

 

Vajrasattva was right when he asked:

 

L

et me ask you something "gold is heavy"..can you create planets yet? Can you create life out of nothing?

 

If you can't do these things and don't have that knowledge then of course you're not God. You're a human being thinking "I am God" probably because you've read some Vedanta.

 

Someone who was truly God wouldn't feel the need to come to TTB and discuss whether or not they are God.

[Vajrasattva]

I understand. I don't see what is the point of remembering God and getting beaten at the same time though. If you remember God, you don't need to also get slapped.

 

You can not comment on transmissions you do not know of or have never recieved. That is part of a tradition that goes all the way back to the Prophets. It is very "sacred" in Cimande & in Pencak Silat. If you really knew its purpose a tear of complete Humility & Gratitude would come to your eyes.

 

Again one has to have "gone" through it to know what its about and to have authority to speak about it. All you are doing my friend is speculating on things you really have no clue about.

 

The "beating" and the "Slapping" is essential to the purification of the "murid".

 

There are different ways to transfer the symbol's power to oneself. Training is one such way. When we train, we try to convince ourselves that we can assume a new identity. Another way is through an initiation ritual. Another way is through magic. But basically it's all the same in the sense that the body is a construct of mind, and it can be made to have whatever quality you want.

 

Yes to an extent you are correct but you are speaking from "theory" and no actual experience. You my friend are at no such level.

 

 

Interesting people you hang with. Have you had any success stepping outside the recipes yet?

 

I have said before I have done many things on my own. But At the end of the day I am lead by my true Self to where I need to be. And that has been in the position of emptying my cup to embrace more along the way. There are many Masters, Teachers, etc one can learn from. I know what I can do but at the end of the day I know that everything I have comes from the Creator.

 

You Can stop and say , " I AM" the " I AM" or "I am god" and you are not "wrong" but do you own such power yet? Again can you create Planets? People out of nothing, Manifest reality in a split second?

 

On a more mundane level can You remove peoples suffering and cure disease with out effort?

 

Do this.....Take away your Chi, Kundalini, food, Water, Sun light, Breath work, any Meditation skills, Mantras, prayers, Muscles & Physical Movements and then see if you can do ANYTHING on your own.............Truth is you CAN NOT. In order to do you need components that are bestowed upon you and given to you as Divine Grace.

 

All you have is a gift and Blessing from ALLAH/ TAO/ ALIMGHTY/SHIVA/SHAKTI (i do not care what you call it.

But that is the truth.

 

Instead you theorize that YOU can do but there is no "proof" in your Pudding. Truth is YOU do nothing that is your Ego talking.

 

 

 

Sounds mysterious! You have piqued my interest.

I can.

Of course! Don't you know anything?

You respect him deeply and that is fine. But keep this in mind, the mind has LIMITLESS ability to manifest anything. You can emanate a Guru that is 10000 billion times more impressive, and that Guru will also be an illusion.

There is something higher. It's called a recognition of not having anything to surrender. But you can't fake it though. If you don't have an authentic recognition, you really should surrender, but don't be stupid. Keep your mind open and critical as you surrender. What are you surrendering to? Who is doing the surrendering? Can power divest of itself?

 

You have a correct Idea but its not coming form your heart and with FULL truth nor real manifestation from you "Goldisheavy".

 

What you are conveying is only a theory you have mentally masterbated to your self that you "Are".

 

Yes a Guru can be manifested etc Many things can be manifested and it would still be "Illusion"..... But who are we to manifest one better than the ones the Universe actually provides for you? The guru is just a manifestation of Guru Sejati (Allah). Its a blessing to receive light from a real Guru who is not interested in anything else but helping you get further along the road of "self discovery". But even the real Gurus will not claim any power as their "own" but from the true GURU SEJATI or PARAMA GURU.

 

 

You are positive?

 

100% with out a single doubt.

 

What are you Allah?

 

I am what Allah wants me to be.

 

I know what Allah knows, don't doubt it.

 

You do not know what ALLAH knows. Stop Bullshitting yourself and deluding yourself my friend.

 

not even the most close to ALLAH make such claims.

 

That is the ego and the "Shaitan" bullshitting you.

 

You the person writing on this forum in the HERE AND NOW still CAN NOT make planets at will, Create Life out of nothing with out CHI, BREATH, SEXUAL FLUIDS, etc, MANIFEST anything in to reality in a split second, Manifest a physical body 12,000 places or more in one given instant, Know the Heart of all men in one single heart beat. Cure people of all ailments.

 

These are some attributes of the "WALI" the saints and not even they claim or dare to say they know what ALLAH knows. You are far from this in this here and now. Cause if you could do this you would say that what I am saying is "HAQQ" (Truth).

 

So please do not be so full of it. The wrong "it".

 

Peace to you and May ALLAH (Whatever you view it to be) Bless you

The truth is in the HEART.

 

 

Everything is from the blessings of the ultimate Guru Sejati or Parama Guru.

Love & Salam & Namaste

Santiago Dobles

Edited December 5, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[mjjbecker]

Edited August 26, 2009 by mjjbecker

[goldisheavy]

Vajrasattva, there is no Allah at all. When you talk about Allah, you talk about a concept. Even if you talk about non-conceptual mind you talk about concept. If you talk about a difference between conceptual and non-conceptual, that's a concept. Non-conceptual is a concept.

 

Finally concepts are not conceptual.

 

You say I know only theory. You're a moron. You can go and fuck yourself. I know what Allah wants me to know, same as you moron. I also know there is no Allah.

 

Anyway, enough of this bullshit wing flapping. I am here to share understanding and not to measure myself against anyone.

 

Oh yea, and Mohammed is a child rapist and many Muslims are violent and intolerant people. You can tell this by how strict and rule oriented they are. There is very little room for much of anything in Islamic culture. Everyone is subdued. You think this practice subdues ego, but in reality, you create bigger and bigger ego, as we can all see this. Your self-image is deluded because you take yourself seriously.

 

Now please go and fuck yourself. Thank you.

 

"These are some attributes of the "WALI" the saints and not even they claim or dare to say they know what ALLAH knows. You are far from this in this here and now. Cause if you could do this you would say that what I am saying is "HAQQ" (Truth)."

 

Blah blah yada yada. That's mental masturbation. ARI the Kabbalist could do that and same stories are told about many, many people. But I know how it all works anyway, why talk about ARI?

Edited December 5, 2008 by goldisheavy

[Ian]

My colleague just made me a lovely cup of tea. And the working week is nearly over.

 

Nice.

[goldisheavy]

Oh maaan! not only is Vajrasattva really helpful and wise and kind and funny.. but now I see he's cute as well!

 

 

We are part of God, and we are not God.

 

true dat.

 

God does not have parts. If you want to work with the God concept, which is not necessary, the correct way to view it is to say that there is only God. Period. End of story. No parts and no other things. No egos. No Shaitan and so on. Just God dreaming whatever the fuck God wants to dream up, forever and ever and beyond time. For fun and for reasons that can't be explained.

Edited December 5, 2008 by goldisheavy

[Guest sykkelpump]

Actually many belive that you can create life out of nothing.As chunyi lin and others high on the spiritual ladders say: everything comes from emptiness and will return to emptiness.

Not sure myself but,emptiness creates enormouas amount of chi in meditation.And it is that chi that eventually will transform to the immortal foetus.

[goldisheavy]

Vajrasattva, one more thing. People like you only respect those who can bash your skull in. You don't understand anything except brute force. You should reflect on this deficiency of yours.

 

Trying to add this as a separate post... Silly board wants to combine posts, and sometimes it's OK and other times I really mean to make a separate post.

[rex]

deleted

Edited December 5, 2008 by rex

[mjjbecker]

Edited August 26, 2009 by mjjbecker

[松永道]

James, thanks for sharing your experience.

 

And Santiago, very good videos, thank you. As you are fond of commenting on good internal martial arts by saying they look like good Silat, I look at this healing as think, wow, this looks like good Chinese medicine. The resemblance is uncanny. I love to watch masters at work. You must have felt like a well grounded cloud afterwards. Good luck with more KAP Workshops, I hope many more.

 

"Gold is heavy, but ego is heavier."

What deficiency should you reflect on?

Edited December 5, 2008 by 松永道

[goldisheavy]

I have a question for Vajrasattva:

 

How can you charge for something that isn't yours? MTS's explanation was "karma balance." What is your excuse?

[SiliconValley]

And the working week is nearly over.

 

Nice.

 

Hurrraaay ....

[Vajrasattva]

I have a question for Vajrasattva:

 

How can you charge for something that isn't yours? MTS's explanation was "karma balance." What is your excuse?

 

 

I charge a very very fare price for my time, It is not for the teachings and not the energy I impart to students. That I give generously with love. Those that train with me know I GO BEYOND THE ALLOTTED TIME GENEROUSLY. Just to edit and upload material to my students can be a full time job. Not to mention the amount of healing I do for students usually for free.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

James, thanks for sharing your experience.

 

And Santiago, very good videos, thank you. As you are fond of commenting on good internal martial arts by saying they look like good Silat, I look at this healing as think, wow, this looks like good Chinese medicine. The resemblance is uncanny. I love to watch masters at work. You must have felt like a well grounded cloud afterwards. Good luck with more KAP Workshops, I hope many more.

 

 

Thanks yes its a lot like Chinese medicine. I suspect its from the same "shamanic" root.

 

Its common sense. Vacuum to suck bad chi /Winds out and also to let the bad blood out. No circulation rivers die.

 

Peace

 

Santiago

[goldisheavy]

You are WAY out of line.

 

I prefer to use reason and kindness. When I have a dispute with someone, I never just call them a name. My usual manner is to first express my distaste for what's been said (that's also kindness), and then I never fail to produce good reasons for my distaste. The kindness is in that I never disempower the weak. I only disempower the strong and empower the weak. The reason for that is because the power pyramid is very unbalanced right now with too many weak people groveling in front of fake strong people (basically other weak people who jostled their way into a certain social position that carries some social weight with it). The problem with our current power distribution is that neither people at the top nor at the bottom of the pyramid are progressing in an optimal fashion. The one's at the top make too much of themselves and the ones at the bottom diminish themselves way too much. Further, the ones at the top do not transfer REAL power to the ones at the bottom, but instead they keep consolidating and solidifying their own power and keep building distinctions between themselves and those they consider to be below them. This I will stop.

 

I do not respond well to force (attempts at unreasoned invalidation are force). If anyone wants to tame me and to bend me to your cause, two things work well: kindness and/or reason. But try force, and I will just allow whatever energy is in me to flow.

 

Vajrasattva has provoked me for no good reason. I was making a purely logical comment about how a person cannot surrender to God, since it makes no logical sense. He couldn't handle that and attacked my person. Now if you try to protect him, both you and him will burn, because essentially your intent is hostile and debasing.

 

Now, I respect the forum rules a great deal, but I respect my own commitments far more. I won't wantonly violate the forum rules, but I will violate them without hesitation when certain sacred commitments take precedence over what your forum rules are. And you do what you will with that.

[Vajrasattva]

Vajrasattva, one more thing. People like you only respect those who can bash your skull in. You don't understand anything except brute force. You should reflect on this deficiency of yours.

 

Exactly how do you know me so well?

 

I respect those that try to uplift, serve & heal Humanity. Not Jack Asses that claim they are GOD yet can't even create a damn thing on their own You can't even create the toilet paper you use to wipe your own ass.

 

 

Let me ask you something? Where is the Galaxies you have created? What human have you healed today? What poor man have you given money to today?

 

What have you done today to make your humanity around you better mister " I AM GOD"???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The kindness is in that I never disempower the weak. I only disempower the strong and empower the weak. The reason for that is because the power pyramid is very unbalanced right now with too many weak people groveling in front of fake strong people (basically other weak people who jostled their way into a certain social position that carries some social weight with it). The problem with our current power distribution is that neither people at the top nor at the bottom of the pyramid are progressing in an optimal fashion. The one's at the top make too much of themselves and the ones at the bottom diminish themselves way too much. Further, the ones at the top do not transfer REAL power to the ones at the bottom, but instead they keep consolidating and solidifying their own power and keep building distinctions between themselves and those they consider to be below them. This I will stop.

 

You are completely "off"

 

I give everything to my students. And my teachers have given everything to me. The Creator gives everything generously aswell. there is no POWER PLAY when it comes to truth.

 

It just is what it is. You have a chip on your shoulder. That is not my doing.

 

Peace to you,

Santiago

[Hawk Over Water]

I charge a very very fare price for my time, It is not for the teachings and not the energy I impart to students. That I give generously with love. Those that train with me know I GO BEYOND THE ALLOTTED TIME GENEROUSLY. Just to edit and upload material to my students can be a full time job. Not to mention the amount of healing I do for students usually for free.

Thanks yes its a lot like Chinese medicine. I suspect its from the same "shamanic" root.

 

Its common sense. Vacuum to suck bad chi /Winds out and also to let the bad blood out. No circulation rivers die.

 

Peace

 

Santiago

 

I'm on KAP - nobody made me, I could have saved my money, but I have found KAP has helped me alot. If anything, I would say that the KAP courses are too cheap. I've yet to come across anyone who said "I did KAP and it was a rip off".

 

Besides, goldisheavy, I think you pretty much blew your cover with that last rant. If that's not an ego on the defensive, I don't know what is. Your credibility is nil. Stamping you feet and having a paddy is a bit of a give away!

[Yoda]

Goldisheavy,

 

Arguing and disagreement is fine but please no insults or potty mouth aggression, thanks!

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Vajrasattva]

Vajrasattva, there is no Allah at all. When you talk about Allah, you talk about a concept. Even if you talk about non-conceptual mind you talk about concept. If you talk about a difference between conceptual and non-conceptual, that's a concept. Non-conceptual is a concept.

 

Finally concepts are not conceptual.

 

You say I know only theory. You're a moron. You can go and fuck yourself. I know what Allah wants me to know, same as you moron. I also know there is no Allah.

 

Anyway, enough of this bullshit wing flapping. I am here to share understanding and not to measure myself against anyone.

 

Oh yea, and Mohammed is a child rapist and many Muslims are violent and intolerant people. You can tell this by how strict and rule oriented they are. There is very little room for much of anything in Islamic culture. Everyone is subdued. You think this practice subdues ego, but in reality, you create bigger and bigger ego, as we can all see this. Your self-image is deluded because you take yourself seriously.

 

Now please go and fuck yourself. Thank you.

 

Did you know Muhammad to say he is a child rapist? Also do you know of any muslim personally that you speak with that is violent or intolerable? What you think of muslim is Wahhabism. This is not in my eye real muslim. The real heart of Islam is with in the Sufi way.

 

So again can you honestly say Muhammad was a child rapist? Did you live with him to understand the circumstances? Can you honestly say that muslims are intolerant people?

 

How many muslims do you know and interact with on a daily basis?

 

What exactly did I do to you personally?

Edited December 5, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[Jedi777]

Did you know Muhammad to say he is a child rapist? Also do you know of any muslim personally that you speak with that is violent or intolerable? What you think of muslim is Wahhabism. This is not in my eye real muslim. The real heart of Islam is with in the Sufi way.

 

So again can you honestly say Muhammad was a child rapist? Did you live with him to understand the circumstances? Can you honestly say that muslims are intolerant people?

 

How many muslims do you know and interact with on a daily basis?

 

What exactly did I do to you personally?

Vajrasattva

dont waste your time on this asshat! he is a child among men who likes to hear himself talk-

some children you just cant reach

[orb]

My colleague just made me a lovely cup of tea. And the working week is nearly over.

 

Nice.

 

What kind of tea u got ?

[Hawk Over Water]

What kind of tea u got ?

 

Anyone like mint with honey? My favorite!

[Apech]

God does not have parts. If you want to work with the God concept, which is not necessary, the correct way to view it is to say that there is only God. Period. End of story. No parts and no other things. No egos. No Shaitan and so on. Just God dreaming whatever the fuck God wants to dream up, forever and ever and beyond time. For fun and for reasons that can't be explained.

 

You are being dualistic. God can have parts, while God is the parts, the parts are not God. If for instance you understand God to be an infinite field of vibrational energy or consciousness, then it is possible to understand that zones of function within this field appear as separate entities or objects, while they are nothing but that that same vibrational energy.

 

If we are parts of God, this means that we are God in this place, being this person. Our nature is infinite and is God but our appearance is functionally specific, unique and individual. See, for instance, Advaita Vedanta.

 

 

 

Anyone like mint with honey? My favorite!

 

 

Gunpowder green tea for me please.

[Eric23]

I come from a Christian background (left a long time ago). Pastors in the past have made it very clear that claiming to be God is the highest form of blasphemy. Every person in the bible who made a claim to be God met a horrible end, proving the pastor's case, depending of course on one's view of the bible. These days I don't have a problem with saying "namaste" the divine in me acknowledges the divine in you. From my perspective, claiming that the divine is a part of you and that you are a part of the divine is a completely different animal than claiming to be God, omnipotent creator of the universe. There must be a little bit of dualist thinking deeply embedded in my thought process that sees myself as just a guy wandering on the face of a small planet called Earth that is one orb among hundred of thousands of planets floating in space, who's time is incredibly short in the grand scheme of things. It is amazing though, that I (you too) am a part of the universe, and that all if it is a part of me.

 

Ian, I've had a few cups of tea throughout the day, they were all lovely. Hope yours was too