meditation help

[Franky]

I try to meditate, usually for about 15 min at a time. All I really get is long trains of thought that go from one subject to another. It's like the onslaught of thoughts racing through my head are coming from an endless supply. I never lose track of time or get that sense of timelessness that supposedly accompanies correct meditatin. I think I might have ADD, as this same onslaught of random thoughts affects my ability to pay attention in school, work ect.

 

So, I was wondering, what works for you guys to clear your thoughts and get that sense of timelessness ?

[Starjumper]

If anything can quiet a noisy mind it is tai chi. However, what you are describing is common for beginning meditators.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Starjumper7

[mouse]

I try to meditate, usually for about 15 min at a time. All I really get is long trains of thought that go from one subject to another. It's like the onslaught of thoughts racing through my head are coming from an endless supply. I never lose track of time or get that sense of timelessness that supposedly accompanies correct meditatin. I think I might have ADD, as this same onslaught of random thoughts affects my ability to pay attention in school, work ect.

 

So, I was wondering, what works for you guys to clear your thoughts and get that sense of timelessness ?

 

Franky,

 

welcome to meditation! It is a great journey of discovery.

 

For a start, I would suggest using an object of meditation as an anchor to still the mind. It can be the in and out breath or the light of a candle or the other 40plus methods the buddha taught.

 

Hold on to that object. Everytime your attention drifts bring it back. You probably don't have ADD.... everyone who starts meditating will notice how wild the mind is. (Others here would blame flouride...)

 

Don't give up. Practice patient endurance. Watch how the mind works. It has even more channels than cable TV.

 

With sufficient practice you will develop calm. Just don't make the habit of stopping meditation when the sitting stops. Carry your meditation throughout your waking and sleeping moment. Use right effort.

 

Wish you all the best on your journey and enjoy your practice.

 

mouse

 

PS: It is not Taiji that calms the mind. It is the mind that calms the mind... imho....

[Starjumper]

PS: It is not Taiji that calms the mind. It is the mind that calms the mind... imho....

 

Focusing on the movement of the body is a most effective way to still the mind, and tai chi has so much depth that there will be an endless supply of things relating to movement to focus on. Chi kung doesn't have this kind of focus so it is more difficult. Focusing on your Buddhist methods while sitting is more difficult than that, and most difficult of all is focusing on nothing, but that's the goal because focusing on anything will cause some tension.

 

If you can sit for two hours with no focus, no thoughts, and no tension then you are really starting to get somewhere.

[Guest sykkelpump]

I try to meditate, usually for about 15 min at a time. All I really get is long trains of thought that go from one subject to another. It's like the onslaught of thoughts racing through my head are coming from an endless supply. I never lose track of time or get that sense of timelessness that supposedly accompanies correct meditatin. I think I might have ADD, as this same onslaught of random thoughts affects my ability to pay attention in school, work ect.

 

So, I was wondering, what works for you guys to clear your thoughts and get that sense of timelessness ?

 

 

It is normal to have this problem in the beginning.there are many methods to calm the mind.I found this one the esaiest.because you dont try to stop the mind in any way.you just watch the thougts without stopping them or adding any energy to them.then after a while they start slow down and there will be some gap between them.that gap will increase with practice and you will have a true empty mind.which is your ultimate goal.

 

http://meditationexpert.com/ebok/howtomeditate.pdf

[Gerard]

Attaining a normal meditative practice where one already starts with a totally still mind while living in society is IMPOSSIBLE. One needs to live in seclusion away from society. Then that goal can be achieved easily by everyone. Another thing is reaching Nirvana, and we all know how difficult this task is.

 

For those like us living in society here are free tools that help you stilling a mind for a large portion of your meditation after several years of daily practice:

 

http://www.buddhanet.net/meditation.htm

 

And more here:

 

http://www.buddhanet.net/ebooks_m.htm

 

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

[Ya Mu]

I try to meditate, usually for about 15 min at a time. All I really get is long trains of thought that go from one subject to another. It's like the onslaught of thoughts racing through my head are coming from an endless supply. I never lose track of time or get that sense of timelessness that supposedly accompanies correct meditatin. I think I might have ADD, as this same onslaught of random thoughts affects my ability to pay attention in school, work ect.

 

So, I was wondering, what works for you guys to clear your thoughts and get that sense of timelessness ?

 

Burn a little quality sandlewood to help raise the vibrations in your space. Try to clean the energy around your head with the smoke.

Sit in a comfortable position. Don't try full lotus unless you are already doing that. Instead of trying to suppress your thoughts, be a 3rd party observer to the thoughts and let them pass through. The key is to not indulge in any particular thought. With practice this gets much easier. Eventually, with practice, you'll be able to stop the world.

What you are experiencing is what most of us went through when we began.

[zanshin]

Have you tried getting up to meditate at 5 or 6 am? My mind is naturally much quieter at this time, in the evening I have much more the experience of multiple random thoughts.

[Franky]

Thanks guys. I'll try getting up earlier and trying to focus on one object. I'll also try to just neutrally observe my thoughts.

 

For focusing on one thing, do Sri Yantra's help? I was also wondering if exhausting your brain before meditation with something like hours of mathematics (something I currently do) would help.

[Starjumper]

For focusing on one thing, do Sri Yantra's help? I was also wondering if exhausting your brain before meditation with something like hours of mathematics (something I currently do) would help.

 

I don't think math would help because part of the process of meditation is that the thinking that you end up doing while you are trying not to think is, in essence, a review of your life, and until you review your entire life it will keep coming up.

[exorcist_1699]

Although gaining a still mind is so difficult , still people think that it is important .But why?

 

Why spending thousands of hours to attain a dull , stagnant mind? Just because it gives you peace ? Or, A feeling of timelessness ?

[mouse]

Although gaining a still mind is so difficult , still people think that it is important .But why?

 

Why spending thousands of hours to attain a dull , stagnant mind? Just because it gives you peace ? Or, A feeling of timelessness ?

 

 

Without a still mind, you are a leaf blowing in the wind.

 

Anytime any phenomena happens be it emotional, feelings, memory etc arise, you are either adverse, attracted or deluded about its nature causing you to react to them according to your defilements of mind.

 

No point trying to intellectualise it. Best is to just practice and discover.

 

Enjoy your practice,

mouse

[joeblast]

Focusing on the movement of the body is a most effective way to still the mind,

Indeed, do it with the physical mechanisms of breath when sitting imho easiest way to still the mind when sitting! When you catch your mind rambling, go back to this.

[Guest sykkelpump]

Although gaining a still mind is so difficult , still people think that it is important .But why?

 

Why spending thousands of hours to attain a dull , stagnant mind? Just because it gives you peace ? Or, A feeling of timelessness ?

 

That is the sad thing,many people dont understand what meditation is.Instead they jump around on different qi gong and yoga methods.

You can do forms forever with the purpose of circulating energy and open blokages.But it is difficult to do if you have "nothing or little" to circulate.

When you meditate and the mind starting to slow down,you generate chi,and it usually raises from the feet to the head opening blocks and circulating by itself .you dont need to do nothing other then meditate.

I have read many sincere stories about kundalini awakenings and openings of the micro cosmic orbit and other amazing things happening.And it almost allways comes from serious meditators.

I have had many strong experience myself from meditaion.

My advice is to find a meditation you like ,and understand the principles behind it. and stay with it for years.you want regret.And then you can do other methods beside.But you dont need anything else.

[Apech]

I try to meditate, usually for about 15 min at a time. All I really get is long trains of thought that go from one subject to another. It's like the onslaught of thoughts racing through my head are coming from an endless supply. I never lose track of time or get that sense of timelessness that supposedly accompanies correct meditatin. I think I might have ADD, as this same onslaught of random thoughts affects my ability to pay attention in school, work ect.

 

So, I was wondering, what works for you guys to clear your thoughts and get that sense of timelessness ?

 

 

Don't try to clear your thoughts. Don't try to get a sense of timelessness.

 

Sit a bit longer and watch your mind.

 

That's it.

[thelerner]

You may want to try using music or dharma talks to 'tame' the monkey mind a bit when meditating. This is using training wheels, but if it helps you sit still w/ a quiet mind for long time good. Eventually you can get into the habit of sitting without the aid.

 

 

The music, soothing from new age to classical. Dharma talks..I'm partial to the podcasts at InfiniteSmile.com the Zen inspired talks of Michael McAllistair. He's excellent.

 

Beware, the real secret (he says) is 10,000 hours of sitting .

 

Why sit quietly? Its a reset button for the human psyche. Trouble is it only reboots one layer at a time.

 

 

Michael

[Starjumper]

Although gaining a still mind is so difficult , still people think that it is important .But why?

 

Why spending thousands of hours to attain a dull , stagnant mind? Just because it gives you peace ? Or, A feeling of timelessness ?

 

Stillness of the mind is required for a person to have clarity, and once a person has achieved continuous stillness of the mind during their day to day activities, which comes after the enlightenment experience, which comes after mastering stillness of the mind during meditation, then thought can return to stillness because then it won't distract one out of stillness (peace) into unstillness. This is called stillness within motion of the mind, the second stage of alchemical growth. The third and final stage, and a stage which never ends and in which no one is perfect, not even the immortals, is stillness within motion in ethics, the skillfull movement through life situations while maintaining an inner stillness, which is Te.

 

Just because it gives you peace ?

 

Peace is where it's at.

 

OOps, I went off on a tangent there.

 

still people think that it is important. But why?

 

stillness of the mind is required for a person to have clarity, and clarity lies at the foundation of true knowing. However the importance of knowing is way overblown, although you don't know that till you have clarity, and then it's too late

 

Peace (of mind) is where it's at.

 

That is the sad thing,many people dont understand what meditation is.Instead they jump around on different qi gong and yoga methods.

You can do forms forever with the purpose of circulating energy and open blokages.But it is difficult to do if you have "nothing or little" to circulate.

 

This may be true for some systems but it is backwards compared to my system, which is all about chi power. The way the path of power works for us is that the movements greatly increase your chi power via many different kinds of chi kung methods and then the extra power is used during meditation to make the meditations much more effective, because the meditations are about power too.

 

So, while it is true that the movements can clear blockages there is much more to movement than that. Movement is life, to cultivate life requires movement !!!

 

So, we move first to generate more chi and then we sit to put it to good use.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Starjumper7

[hyok]

That was a very enlightening and engaging post, Starjumper. Thank you for sharing.

[Bum Grasshopper]

I had much success with brainwave entrainment as a beginner. It is a sound with beats or pulses embedded in that guides your brain to produce certain brainwave patterns. Alpha is produced during light meditation is conducive to imagery, theta when you are in a deep state is good for connecting with the subconscious mind.

 

My problem is I would "play" songs I heard that day in my head. Listening to brainwave music helped stop the songs from playing.

[Guest sykkelpump]

Stillness of the mind is required for a person to have clarity, and once a person has achieved continuous stillness of the mind during their day to day activities, which comes after the enlightenment experience, which comes after mastering stillness of the mind during meditation, then thought can return to stillness because then it won't distract one out of stillness (peace) into unstillness. This is called stillness within motion of the mind, the second stage of alchemical growth. The third and final stage, and a stage which never ends and in which no one is perfect, not even the immortals, is stillness within motion in ethics, the skillfull movement through life situations while maintaining an inner stillness, which is Te.

Peace is where it's at.

 

OOps, I went off on a tangent there.

stillness of the mind is required for a person to have clarity, and clarity lies at the foundation of true knowing. However the importance of knowing is way overblown, although you don't know that till you have clarity, and then it's too late

 

Peace (of mind) is where it's at.

This may be true for some systems but it is backwards compared to my system, which is all about chi power. The way the path of power works for us is that the movements greatly increase your chi power via many different kinds of chi kung methods and then the extra power is used during meditation to make the meditations much more effective, because the meditations are about power too.

 

So, while it is true that the movements can clear blockages there is much more to movement than that. Movement is life, to cultivate life requires movement !!!

 

So, we move first to generate more chi and then we sit to put it to good use.

 

You sure you do meditation correct?when I meditate (anapanasati) I generate tremendous amount of chi.my body is just filling and filling with chi.until the pressure get so high it starts to build up in the base chakra and working up the central channel.It can not be compared at all to forms.which basically works because chi is kind of magnetic to chi.So when you for example move your hands down in front of your body.the chi in your hands is kind of magnetic to your chi in the front of the body.so it moves the chi in the front of the body along with your hands.That is if your chi is not to much stagnant.But there is no power behind it.because you havent build up chi pressure.If you do movements alot you might get some chi circulation and that will eventually generate some chi.But the amount of chi generated can not at all be compared with the amount of chi you generate from a short period of quiet mind

Belive me I have done about 10 years of diffrent qi gong,chi kung etc.

Some forms is better than others of course but the basic behind they are the same.and the chi you generate is limited,The best ones I came across was spring forest.Because It repeatedly did the same movements over and over and most of the based on dan tien and the micro cosmic orbit

[Spectrum]

put a tack in the wall. sit a comfortable distance and gaze at the tack until the wall blacks out. You're mind is required to still as your optic nerve settles into rhythm. this came to me from a gypsy joker turned job counseler who crossed paths with some gung guys in the early 70's. He said he still tunneled out to that day while driving on the freeway. His girlfriend thought he was spacing but he insisted he was pefectly centered in the zone. Last I heard of him he had retired and was sailing around different parts of the world. Cool cat to cross paths with in highschool.

[Franky]

put a tack in the wall. sit a comfortable distance and gaze at the tack until the wall blacks out. You're mind is required to still as your optic nerve settles into rhythm. this came to me from a gypsy joker turned job counseler who crossed paths with some gung guys in the early 70's. He said he still tunneled out to that day while driving on the freeway. His girlfriend thought he was spacing but he insisted he was pefectly centered in the zone. Last I heard of him he had retired and was sailing around different parts of the world. Cool cat to cross paths with in highschool.

 

Would meditating to a yantra produce a similar effect?

[ron7786]

...

Edited December 8, 2008 by ron7786

[exorcist_1699]

In meditation , in fact, our mind can focus on somewhere/ something exterior of our body or

interior of our body.

 

Focus on something/somewhere , or focus on nothing/nowhere at all .

 

Or, first focus on something/somewhere , then focus on nothing/nowhere ;

 

Focus on nothing /nowhere right from the beginning sounds fantastic, the problem is how to start?

Only talented guys know .

Edited December 6, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Starjumper]

You sure you do meditation correct?when I meditate (anapanasati) I generate tremendous amount of chi.my body is just filling and filling with chi.until the pressure get so high it starts to build up in the base chakra and working up the central channel.It can not be compared at all to forms.which basically works because chi is kind of magnetic to chi.So when you for example move your hands down in front of your body.the chi in your hands is kind of magnetic to your chi in the front of the body.so it moves the chi in the front of the body along with your hands.That is if your chi is not to much stagnant.But there is no power behind it.because you havent build up chi pressure.If you do movements alot you might get some chi circulation and that will eventually generate some chi.But the amount of chi generated can not at all be compared with the amount of chi you generate from a short period of quiet mind

Belive me I have done about 10 years of diffrent qi gong,chi kung etc.

Some forms is better than others of course but the basic behind they are the same.and the chi you generate is limited,The best ones I came across was spring forest.Because It repeatedly did the same movements over and over and most of the based on dan tien and the micro cosmic orbit

 

Well if the best one you came across only does that then I would like to put forth the proposition that you haven't experienced powerful chi kung, nor have you experienced a lot of chi. There is much more that can be done in chi kung than what you describe for Spring forest. Some of the things that can increase chi more than Spring Forest is Zhan Zuang, shaking (hundreds of types), gathering chi from nature (hundreds of types), and chi packing (hundreds of types). It appears that Spring Forest has none of those and so it is what I call wimpy chi kung. A good nei kung system includes all of those techniques and more, in addition to the types of movement you describe. In addition the power types of chi kung cultivate a lot of hand power and so your hands are much better tools. I can do the microcosmic orbit by using my hands and it is much much stronger than can be done by simply sitting, and there are hundreds of variations of it, and most of them look somewhat like a beautiful exotic dance. However, in the final analysis, even done my way, the MCO does not increase chi power.

 

Done 'properly', which consists partly of doing it much more slowly than most people do chi kung, makes it more like a strenuous moving zhan zuang. Done properly chi kung IS already meditation! It gets much more chi moving than can be done with sitting alone, and THEN we sit to put all that extra chi to work.

 

You mention having it build up a tremendous amount of chi so that it works up the central channel but that doesn't sound like a tremendous amount, as the goal of a good nei kung system is to get chi pulsing very powerfully in your entire body, so much so that it feels like you have ants crawling all over your body, and inside too (ref: Tai Chi classics), and it generates a strong feeling of physical bliss. The chi feels very strong in your head and very large amounts of chi shine out from your entire body, and much more from your head, and even more than that goes out the crown point.

 

That's the way I know, and I only know my way not others so I'm not an expert on cpomparative chi kung, I'm sure there are other ways. For example John Chang has stated (I guess) that he cultivates his power simply by sitting and it appears he has good power. I'm just trying to point out that your ideas are not complete.

 

Focus on nothing /nowhere right from the beginning sounds fantastic, the problem is how to start?

 

I guess my teacher was talented then because he got us started like this; "No thinking!" ... and focusing is a type of thinking.

 

... except for focusing on holding proper posture, which isn't thinking.