interesting analysis of Zhuangzi

[goldisheavy]

http://www.iep.utm.edu/z/zhuangzi.htm

 

Check this out! I liked it and I was thinking some of you might also like it. I think it's a very well done, very careful analysis.

[picnic]

this seems like a good place to add this wonderful Chuang Tzu story (in the hope that the leaders of the world will happen across the page and learn - and that normal people can read it and nod knowingly..)....

 

Cracking the Safe

 

For security against robbers who snatch purses, rifle luggage, and crack safes,

One must fasten all property with ropes, lock it up with locks, bolt it with bolts.

This (for property owners) is elementary good sense.

But when a strong thief comes along he picks up the whole lot,

Puts it on his back, and goes on his way with only one fear:

That ropes, locks, and bolts may give way.

Thus what the world calls good business is only a way

To gather up the loot, pack it, make it secure

In one convenient load for the more enterprising thieves.

Who is there, among those called smart,

Who does not spend his time amassing loot

For a bigger robber than himself?

 

In the land of Khi, from village to village,

You could hear cocks crowing, dogs barking.

Fishermen cast their nets,

Ploughmen ploughed the wide fields,

Everything was neatly marked out

By boundary lines. For five hundred square miles

There were temples for ancestors, alters

For field-gods and corn-spirits.

Every canton, county, and district

Was run according to the laws and statutes-

Until one morning the Attorney General, Tien Khang Tzu,

Did away with the King and took over the whole state.

 

Was he content to steal the land? No,

He also took over the laws and statutes at the same time,

And all the lawyers with them, not to mention the police.

They all formed part of the same package.

 

Of course, people called Khang Tzu a robber,

But they left him alone

To live as happy as the Patriarchs.

No small state would say a word against him,

No large state would make a move in his direction,

So for twelve generations the state of Khi

Belonged to his family. No one interfered

With his inalienable rights.

 

The invention

Of weights and measures

Makes robbery easier.

Signing contracts, settings seals,

Makes robbery more sure.

Teaching love and duty

Provides a fitting language

With which to prove that robbery

Is really for the general good.

A poor man must swing

For stealing a belt buckle

But if a rich man steals a whole state

He is acclaimed

As statesman of the year.

 

Hence if you want to hear the very best speeches

On love, duty, justice, etc.,

Listen to statesmen.

 

But when the creek dries up

Nothing grows in the valley.

When the mound is leveled

The hollow next to it is filled.

And when the statesmen and lawyers

And preachers of duty disappear

There are no more robberies either

And the world is at peace.

 

Moral: the more you pile up ethical principles

And duties and obligations

To bring everyone in line

The more you gather loot

For a thief like Khang

By ethical argument

And moral principle

The greatest crimes are eventually shown

To have been necessary, and, in fact,

A signal benefit

To mankind.

 

-The Way of Chuang Tzu - Thomas Merton

[Mal]

http://www.iep.utm.edu/z/zhuangzi.htm

Thank you for the link, I enjoy Chuang Tzu.

 

It's funny, just reading

This creates a problem for the interpreter, and especially for the translator. How do we deal with the contradictions?

Before I came online I was reading Osho's "The Buddha said." Osho was relating how the sayings of Buddha, Jesus, Lao Tzu can contradict something else they have said because they are reflections of their listeners questions. Like a mirror showing what is in front of it.

 

Where as philosophers like Kant or Confucius are not contradictory because they are not reflective. Philosophers have something to say, a point to get across. They are like a photograph, remaining the same. Not at all like a mirror.

 

So contradictions from people like Lao Tzu should not be over analyzed. It's like criticizing a mirror for showing different faces depending on who is looking

[goldisheavy]

So contradictions from people like Lao Tzu should not be over analyzed. It's like criticizing a mirror for showing different faces depending on who is looking

I think analysis gets a bad reputation because most people assume, wrongly, that the outcome of analysis is a conclusion, or in other words, some kind of mental fixation.

 

My view of analysis is entirely different from that. To me, holding conclusions is a result of not having an analytical quality of mind in the first place. Analysis is what dissolves conclusions when that analysis is sincere, questioning, probing. Analysis is not a process of rationalization. It's a process of investigation of the conceptual territory of mind, which surprisingly covers all the territory that ever appears.

 

When a person repeatedly analyzes something that's fundamentally mystical, the result is not a false conclusion, but rather, the person gains confidence that there is no conclusion to be had, there is no fixation possible, and the more you analyze it, the more you see that's the case.

 

From this point of view there is no such thing as over-analysis anymore as there is over-kindness or over-compassion. The culmination of analysis is wisdom and there is no over-wisdom. A person who enjoys genuine analysis is called a contemplative. It's a noble and virtuous quality.

 

Analysis is naturally self-moderating. When you give attention to a difficult topic, such as the identity boundaries, and you realize there are no obvious boundaries, the mind naturally slows down and enters into a meditation. That's how real analysis works. It's not just blah blah blah... It's not a mundane thought stream. It's not thinking about which shoes are better or which hair style to get. It's giving your mind to the weightiest questions of your life. It's deeply meaningful. It's vastly more transformative than energy work because it changes what you believe reality is, and energy work doesn't change your beliefs about reality a great deal, if at all. Someone who pursues wisdom gains all the other benefits, even the same benefits as those gained from energy work as a side-effect. But if you only pursue energy work you don't gain wisdom as a side-effect because wisdom is a super-set of all abilities. It's the GRAND VIEW, and all else is just a small part of it. So the GRAND WAY is to practice the GRAND VIEW and to let all else fall into place as it may. To have a vast mind, to think vast thoughts, to have freedom of thought -- it is not easy. If the mind is conditioned by a constricting mindset, even mere presence of certain thoughts, just considering certain topics, is terrifying to the point of wobbly knees and loss of appetite. Never mind actually meditating on these aspects and never mind actualizing them into life.

Edited December 2, 2008 by goldisheavy

[Mal]

When a person repeatedly analyzes something that's fundamentally mystical, the result is not a false conclusion, but rather, the person gains confidence that there is no conclusion to be had, there is no fixation possible, and the more you analyze it, the more you see that's the case.

 

Well put. "Normal" people really don't like that wobbly knee feeling do they Heck even I find a lot of these things rather terrifying.

 

Fear...... you just got to smile