My impression of the Kunlun Seminar tonight

[talkinghead]

Yes, so I finally got to see with my own eyes what Max Christenson and his followers are like. First I would have to say that the most impressive part was when he transmitted energy to his students. They were blown backwards or went into fits and were dazed for awhile afterward. Max acted like he was playing around, but there was something a little unsettling about the way he engaged the people afterwards. He was being very playful about the whole thing and would gently slap or prod one of the guys on the floor lying dazed; He kept saying that "we play a lot of games in our group," as if their body being overwhelmed by his energy was no big deal.

 

I was impressed by Max's presence. He does make you feel drawn to him and he is VERY charismatic. I came to the lecture for a number of reasons and left feeling very glad that I came, because I felt like I was seeing a cult form before my eyes. I don't expect him to go Charles Manson and start having familes offed, but I think he'll make some good money and get a lot of women. Max IS a FORCE.

 

A number of Max's followers spoke about their experience with the practice. They definitely seemed to look to Max for guidance and approval; seeming much too passive; the kind of people that get taken in. When he was transmitting energy to someone, another student sitting next to me who had been on stage early started to convulse. I felt like he could be competing for the attention, love and approval of Max, who stayed focused on his favorite for a long time after. He replied to his most trepid student who asked if he was going to make her come up front something like; "Yes of course I will not ask you to come up here." Definitely an NLP hypnotic statement designed to confuse and entrance the mind a little.

 

There was one man who spoke that did have very good presence and gave a convincing dialogue saying that "If you are just curious now, the transmission will take you beyond the comfort of curiosity".

 

However, the tone of the dialogue sounded too much like marketing. Max gave anecdotes about how accomplished practioners of other schools or macho bushido japanese men were overwhelmed by his energies. He kept emphasizing informality by saying many times; "you see we're like family". Kind of lulling everyone into trust and acceptance. At the end of the night there just didn't seem much room for doubt. d Perhaps Max has reached an advanced energetic state, but I think his underlying complex could be a cross between Jesus complex and control freak.

 

I did find the description of transmission of energy interesting. Max didn't describe how he did it but rather asked his followers to explain their experience. One student said he was told to resist the flow of energy being given to him, but then his resistance broke down and the energy flowed up his spine. Each time Max, transmitted energy to someone in front he would would say right before: "its okay to resist.." To me it seemed like he was prepping them with the message "Resistance is futile against my powers!"

 

I would really like to go to the seminar tomorrow.. Even if it is just hypnosis, suggestion, and expectation to get a surge of energy through those means would be interesting and fun, but I would feel like to much of a sucker to shell out $300 for this.

Edited December 6, 2008 by talkinghead

[hyok]

A number of Max's followers spoke about their experience with the practice. They definitely seemed to look to Max for guidance and approval; seeming much too passive; the kind of people that get taken in. When he was transmitting energy to someone, another student sitting next to me who had been on stage early started to convulse. I felt like he could be competing for the attention, love and approval of Max, who stayed focused on his favorite for a long time after. He replied to his most trepid student who asked if he was going to make her come up front something like; "Yes of course I will not ask you to come up here." Definitely an NLP hypnotic statement designed to confuse and entrance the mind a little.

 

This is similar to what I saw at another workshop. I couldn't help but think it was really contrived and wondered what their motivation was.

 

Thanks for the VERY honest and insightful post, Talkinghead. It was a pleasure to read.

[bindo]

Gimme a break.

[Starjumper]

I would really like to go to the seminar tomorrow.. Even if it is just hypnosis, suggestion, and expectation to get a surge of energy through those means would be interesting and fun, but I would feel like to much of a sucker to shell out $300 for this.

 

It isn't just hypnosis, suggestion and expectation, those are tricks to get you to accept something more sinister.

 

If you value your soul don't go. Do not accept energy from such a liar, it carries with it a big big problem and then you are stuck with it for life. I suggest reading this thread before you decide:

 

While in the world

 

 

 

I applaud your level headed appreciation of what he does but but beware of what is hidden! Do not go out of curiosity.

[SiliconValley]

Gimme a break.

 

 

Well talking head stated his opinion .... Fair, isn't it?

 

I don't smell a cult here, or do I?

Edited December 6, 2008 by SiliconValley

[ddilulo_06]

I'll post what I think of Max & company next week... I'll be going to the San Diego Seminar. I haven't payed the $300 yet, as I want to see Max in person and ask him some questions.

[三江源]

 

It isn't just hypnosis, suggestion and expectation, those are tricks to get you to accept something more sinister.

 

If you value your soul don't go. Do not accept energy from such a liar, it carries with it a big big problem and then you are stuck with it for life.

 

 

Stuck with it for life.

 

Can that really be so? How would that work, exactly.. precisely how could it be something one couldnt erase?

[wudangquan]

Because nobody who can is going to clean up the mess that is being made.

[Yoda]

Talkinghead,

 

While I had a totally different experience, some do have that experience and that's why Max provides a free talk first.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[三江源]

Because nobody who can is going to clean up the mess that is being made.

 

1.why not?

 

2. And if it is indeed a mess... can we not clean it up ourselves?

[Long Yun]

I'll admit that I was pretty excited watching the video on kunlunbliss.com when I first heard about Kunlun. But when I saw the photos on the book page, I lost any hope that I had in the man... I think he probably has some pretty cool abilities, as everyone on this forum who has tried Kunlun seems to love it. But overall, I think he's let those abilities get to his head. Maybe I'm wrong (I haven't tried Kunlun) but I think I'd rather stick with less commercial practices. By the way, I mean no offense to those who've tried and like Kunlun. These are just my thoughts on the matter. Peace.

[Aetherous]

It isn't just hypnosis, suggestion and expectation, those are tricks to get you to accept something more sinister.

 

If you value your soul don't go. Do not accept energy from such a liar, it carries with it a big big problem and then you are stuck with it for life. I suggest reading this thread before you decide:

 

While in the world

 

I applaud your level headed appreciation of what he does but but beware of what is hidden! Do not go out of curiosity.

 

I agree with the last two statements. I too applaud your sensibility, talkinghead. I will also suggest that you don't just go out of curiosity or whatever. If it feels too cultish and odd for you, just leave it alone. I don't believe it's worth it.

 

Okay so that being said, I disagree with the rest of what Starjumper said...

 

I don't practice kunlun anymore, but I can't agree with these ideas that Starjumper proposes. Unless a decent argument was given as to why these fear based claims are being made, no one should listen to it. For instance:

 

1) What is the something that is more sinister?

2) What does it do to your soul?

3) What has Max lied about?

4) What is the big big problem?

5) How do you know you're stuck with it for life?

 

These ideas are coming from someone who has no experience with the practice or the teacher. So the 6th question should be: "how do you know this is true?" Then when everything is answered, it's a good idea to see if it sounds rational. And to also see if it resonates with you, and if you can intuitively feel its truth.

 

Listen...I didn't get good results from kunlun practices. I did it for 6 months after a seminar and started developing health problems. But I don't believe I was poisoned or anything. My soul was not harmed. There is no big big problem as far as I can tell.

 

I think all sorts of spiritual practices can cause negative effects...all it means is that it isn't for the practitioner's constitution at the time. For myself, I've started showing symptoms of Damp-Heat invading the Spleen (based on a self diagnosis in TCM). Why? Well...

 

It could be that kunlun brought out this underlying condition in me (maybe it was passed down from my parents, which is very possible because my sister has the same symptoms). It could be due to my diet and lifestyle (which hasn't been so good). It could be due to practicing kunlun in the wrong way in the beginning (getting dizzy and pushing it in practice). It could also be due to the way that the spontaneous portion is practiced (sitting in a chair, hands in a certain position).

 

But whatever the reason, I am not going to easily believe that my soul has been damaged by the transmission and that it was evil.

 

The spiritual results I got from the practice, which started to manifest after like 5 months, were great. You could get the same results from other good qigong practices...

 

I agree that the way Max presents himself is odd. If you don't like it, then leave it alone. Seriously: don't go. Why spend so much money on something that you don't see as worth it?

 

If it looks like a cult, and the followers look like they aren't independent, then guess what: that's what it is. It doesn't matter how hard Max will try to not make it be a cult...it will be a cult if the followers can't stand on their own two feet. Perhaps that is the case. If you see that happening, leave.

[froggie]

max is an educated person with various kinds of (real, helpful, good, tangible, subtle, strong, controlled, etc) abilities in my humble opinion.

and he likes to take it easy, i think too.

he's just doing what he can and tries to make it work and make it nice in my opinion.

he's quite nice i would say. someone you wouldn't mind as a teacher or a friend.

n.b. there are far worse people 'out there', but that's hardly worth mentioning. all in all i would say there is very little reason to complain, but on the other hand it's okay to ask things for the better in my opinion. ofcourse it does depend on how you bring it/ask it. and on your own patience and virtue (etc). that goes without saying almost also.

my 2 cents in there. hope it helps =)

 

 

3) What has Max lied about?

 

 

Lying is a word too harsh for adressing an 'issue' of complex materials easily misunderstood because they are easily thought of as out of context (one needs various frames of reference in order to comprehend some of the (not always that important but spoken about casually) information.

 

That's what this really is about in my opinion.

 

I wouldn't have used the word 'lying' at all, because it seems to speak of something else than what is really going on, nevermind even the intent.

 

If anything is out of context, it is using such a word as 'lying'. in this case.

 

 

sincerely.

Edited December 6, 2008 by froggie

[Starjumper]

1.why not?

 

2. And if it is indeed a mess... can we not clean it up ourselves?

 

My dear, I certainly hope that it can be cleaned up but it would require a very advanced person to help you I think. Possibly it doesn't affect everyone in the same way but I think it's because some people aren't sensitive enough. I just heard from someone who had a demon attach to themselves just from reading the book and practicing it. It prevented them from practicing their good practice, among o ther things.They were sensitive enough to feel the detrimental effect but didn't know where it was coming from until they met an advanced yogi. Keep in mind that this came just from the book and the practice, they hadn't even met Max or received his poisonous transmission.

 

I hope and pray that you can clean it up yourself, but I would suggest finding a really good exorcist.

 

Stuck with it for life.

 

Can that really be so? How would that work, exactly.. precisely how could it be something one couldnt erase?

 

Well this person I just heard from was able to erase it, with some very advanced help, so perhaps there is hope. I just assume that getting the transmission in person would make it more difficult. I'll tell you one thing, if Max tried to touch me he would be leaving the room feet first on a stretcher.

 

-----------

 

Perhaps I'm being too pessimistic to say stuck with it for life. I'm referring mainly to those that accept it and don't feel damaged. Maybe some people in fact aren't damaged by it, maybe their karma blends perfectly with it.

 

The thing to keep in mind is this that my teachers have told me: everything can be countered, which means there is a counterattack or counter move for any attack.

 

So maybe there is hope.

 

Maybe i should share the emails I got?

Edited December 6, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Sloppy Zhang]

I can't speak about Kunlun as I haven't tried it either, but I will second the notion that if you get a bad feeling about it don't go through it.

 

Sure it sounds kind of Star Wars-ish by saying "trust your feelings" and all that, but if it really gives you a bad vibe then it gives you a bad vibe. Even if kunlun is 100% authentic and whatever, if you got a bad vibe getting in the way it won't help you anyway, IMHO. Go somewhere and do the things that give you a good vibe and where you really DO feel like you're in a family atmosphere.

[froggie]

What's good for one may not be good for everyone.

I think that's a conclusion we shouldn't be shy to draw.

Edited December 6, 2008 by froggie

[三江源]

Steve, what exactly happened to the person who had a demon attach to them from reading the book and practising it? ie How did they perceive it, what were the symptoms, what was the nature of the demon, how was it exorcised?

 

 

Can you share that? It would be helpful in clarifying exactly what you are speaking of.

 

As to whether or not you share the emails, your own conscience must dictate.

[markern]

Has Max ever done anything wrong other than presenting himself a bit too mysterious and larger than life? It seems pretty clear to me that he is way too much into himself but he also seems to have a very playful attitude about it al and it does not seem like he has ever done any of the terrible guru things that are so common like taking control of peoples lives, making people give him their savings, ruining their self esteem and bedding all the hot young students. At least thats my impression from reading on this forum.

[Yoda]

Has Max ever done anything wrong other than presenting himself a bit too mysterious and larger than life? It seems pretty clear to me that he is way too much into himself but he also seems to have a very playful attitude about it al and it does not seem like he has ever done any of the terrible guru things that are so common like taking control of peoples lives, making people give him their savings, ruining their self esteem and bedding all the hot young students. At least thats my impression from reading on this forum.

 

Markern,

 

Excellent point.

 

I'm pretty amazed by his lack of worldly ambitions in terms of the traditional "wine, women, and gold" when it's dangling right there in front of the guy 24/7.

 

I bet that a higher proportion of downward flow gurus can resist worldly temptations when compared to upward flow gurus.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Ken]

There has to be outside influence in any practice that gives quick effects. One needs to be very careful of what those outside influences are. Suffice to say that the human body is best suited for cultivation and there are others who want a piece of that.

[Starjumper]

Steve, what exactly happened to the person who had a demon attach to them from reading the book and practising it? ie How did they perceive it, what were the symptoms, what was the nature of the demon, how was it exorcised?

Can you share that? It would be helpful in clarifying exactly what you are speaking of.

 

As to whether or not you share the emails, your own conscience must dictate.

 

Unfortunately I can't share the message because it was requested that I don't. It's weird, people send me all this juicy private info that paints an amazing picture, particularly when you add up all the different evidence, but then they ask me to not post it. I wonder why they send me this stuff? Why me? Maybe it's because they know instinctively that I'm a guardian

 

I'll see if I can paraphrase the message that I got in order to shield the identity of the sender. The fact is though that any info will simply scroll down into oblivion and be lost. (I call it being lost to the anus of history rather than the annals of history) But all the enthusiastic suckers and the kunlun website will still be shining brightly and droves of new people will be damaged.

Edited December 7, 2008 by Starjumper7

[三江源]

If I really believed that people were being damaged by a practice, and not only that, but someone I love was being damaged by it, then I would work hard to find out how to reverse damage.

 

Maybe that is the question you have for Mak Ti Sin.

 

If you are the guardian of the anus, you have to learn to wipe up shit.

[SiliconValley]

[Starjumper]

I guess, but putting a cork in it would be easier all around. I can't imagine how to correct such a thing as it's way outside my experience. I'm going to visit my teacher and discuss it with him. I have a different question for Mak Ti Sin, who would probably send me a fu, but the loved one would not accept it. My question for Mak is along the following lines: he said that gods are only good, but Lin said gods could be evil. People say that Lama Blunderturd has no worldly desires, but it looks to me like he is working at becoming a god, which would be an otherworldly desire, and he's using otherworldly powers to achieve it, as I'm aware of the recipe for making a god. I feel that Lin trumps Mak Ti Sin.

 

So hearye hearye, all you folks who want to be touched on the head and have the quick easy path to the 'divine' better step right up and join Kunlun now, while it's still a ground floor opportunity, and procure your favors with the great boddhisatva (barfing emoticon goes here) before he becomes a god. Maybe if you cowtow he'll touch you again, just think, touched by a god. Hurry.

[ddilulo_06]

Starjumper, why do you keep ringing your danger bell in every Kunlun thread? You keep doing it over and over and over and over and over and over.... SHEESH! We get your point already...

 

All the sarcastic comments, and just the sheer amount of energy you're putting into this...

 

To warn everyone of the dangers? I don't think so.

 

Are you sure there aren't any other reason? Yes, that is a pointed question.

Edited December 7, 2008 by ddilulo_06