Shaktipat

[Vajrahridaya]

The way of the way is that there is no self yet the inherent self who observes this selfless reality.

 

I never said that. The key is in the details.

 

There is no reality except the inherent reality of our unreality.

 

No that's talking about being and non-being. I didn't say that either.

 

You are over intellectualizing thigns in verbal representations and not simply BEING of the way.

 

It takes a refined intellect to truly understand, even directly. What is BEING and what is the WAY? The key is in the details and truly understanding how it all works will liberate, not taking refuge in a blank mind.

 

See Buddhism is refined, particular and explanatory. It talks the self out of self attachment on all levels from form to formless. Not only does it use all sorts of energy methods, which cannot be discussed here, but it also utilizes the aspect of intellect in order for the right conclusions to be realized. It's not a vague path with ambiguous statements.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Ya Mu]

...

 

Either the Buddha is right or the Buddha is wrong. You can choose for yourself, but the fact remains, the Buddha doesn't agree with your statement. I agree with the Buddha.

Perhaps I don't want to agree with someone with a big belly - is there a skinnier enlightened I can agree with?

 

And in general, speaking of lightening, I see quite a bit of heaviness in this thread. No matter what anyone believes or practices everyone may find that light-heartedness can go a long way. You see, the world is divided up by "heavies" and "lighters". Heavies find it difficult to get in the boat that rows across the river to heaven (would sink the boat, you know?) so its the lighters that get to heaven. The only drawback is when they do they find they have to go back and swim across with 2 heavies each. Very difficult to achieve this stage of enlightenment. A stage of enlightenment even more difficult to achieve is the heavy who realizes that he must walk across the bottom of the river with a heavy on one shoulder and a lighter on another. Very imbalanced, but that is the way.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Hi Ya Mu: The 'heaviness' is a quality that follows the Buddhist invasion of any particular topic.. it seems a certain group on this forum do not feel 'Enlightened' unless they 'Darken' the existences of others.. they need every productive discussion to be about 'their version' of Buddhism.. It would be appropriate for the 'Buddhists' to start their own thread, and if anyone is interested, they are 'free' to visist and chat.. it is a mockery of respectable Buddhism.

 

Be well..

[C T]

Greetings..

 

Hi Ya Mu: The 'heaviness' is a quality that follows the Buddhist invasion of any particular topic.. it seems a certain group on this forum do not feel 'Enlightened' unless they 'Darken' the existences of others.. they need every productive discussion to be about 'their version' of Buddhism.. It would be appropriate for the 'Buddhists' to start their own thread, and if anyone is interested, they are 'free' to visist and chat.. it is a mockery of respectable Buddhism.

 

Be well..

Ha ha ha! You make my belly roll with laughter (sorry Michael, just found it hard to resist saying that )

 

As though your words would achieve the desired effect of harmonizing what you perceive to be discord. Look into your own 'clarity' and nonchalance first before anyone else's will ya?

 

If i did not know better by now, i can offer a rebuttal, but then it would mean a delay in watching exciting tennis on tv.

 

So goooodbye, and enjoy your frustrations, Tzu Jan. Not many will join you i believe, especially those who are not so prone to emotional outbursts.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Greetings..

 

Hi Ya Mu: The 'heaviness' is a quality that follows the Buddhist invasion of any particular topic.. it seems a certain group on this forum do not feel 'Enlightened' unless they 'Darken' the existences of others.. they need every productive discussion to be about 'their version' of Buddhism.. It would be appropriate for the 'Buddhists' to start their own thread, and if anyone is interested, they are 'free' to visist and chat.. it is a mockery of respectable Buddhism.

 

Be well..

Why do you feel that this discussion darkens your existence? The very fact that you view things this way says plenty about the intentions behind the thread. If you feel threatened by such views, just move on.

 

I've had much lengthier debates, and very nasty indeed (most on my part), against the so called Buddhists on this forum. We worked through the issues in discourse, through misunderstandings and interpretations (mostly due to language), but I really don't see an effort on your part to understand.

 

We're figuring this out together, ey?

 

Anyway,

 

Just as the dogma with religion can cloud views, the dogma against religion/tradition can equally be damaging.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[三江源]

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Edited March 23, 2015 by 三江源

[三江源]

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Edited March 23, 2015 by 三江源

[Aetherous]

they need every productive discussion to be about 'their version' of Buddhism

 

This is true, but oh well. It can be informative for anyone who is interested. Or it can be skipped over and saved for later, when you're more open minded to learning.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Why do you feel that this discussion darkens your existence?

Not what the communication says.. see below:

it seems a certain group on this forum do not feel 'Enlightened' unless they 'Darken' the existences of others.

That is 'my' personal speculation as to the motive for bringing completely unrelated discussions into existing discussions.. a term often used is 'hijacking a thread or topic'.. this sort of activity is disrespectful and incites conflict, does that indicate 'Buddha-nature'?

 

Please understand, it is not within the capacity of Buddhist beliefs or activities to 'Darken' my existence.. that would be giving away the sovereignty of individuality without acknowledging the Completeness of Wholeness..

Just as the dogma with religion can cloud views, the dogma against religion/tradition can equally be damaging

How many times does one touch fire before concluding that touching fire is simply not consistent with a 'clear' understanding of one's relationship with their environment?

 

BE well..

[Ya Mu]

edit: apologies, misread

Edited June 23, 2010 by Ya Mu

[ShaktiMama]

understood. thank you

 

s

 

yeah i am a father so its in my instincts. LOL as for the patronizing goes, yes i am a patron of this site. LOL i dont mean to come across that way even if i do sometimes. i know how it sounds from what i write on occassion. i read it too. LOL but it shouldnt be looked at as such just because i dont have the patience or time to thoroughly go thru and make eloquent posts. i tend to get to the point and sometimes my post get jumbled up because of that or i dont go in and correct the first thought that comes to mind.

 

i liked howdy doody and i wasnt specifically referring to you dear. before my time too. LOL i was referring to some that havent been on here any length of time or just jumped on the thread and decided to make some smart ass comments or nonsensical comments. LOL

 

now i am gonna lay it on the line for ya so there is no misunderstanding.

 

i can tell from your posts that your an extremely intelligent and caring individual as is Vaj. i can also tell that you have something and people like it (him too). its not just charisma. that you are doing a good thing in a lot of ways from different perspectives. the world and people in it need it.

 

i am a traditionalist regardless of its downfalls. i believe what i believe and what i have found from my own inner searchings, which i might add we do not elaborate on since its ours and the journey isnt complete so coming out and saying many of our personal experiences we just dont do as we dont know everything there is to know....yet. so sometimes it can come across as i wont answer a specific question or continue a debate because my realizations are for me until i am at the level where it is entirely truth and then some things still cant be shared. LOL some can. sometimes i dont share because i dont know. LOL

 

i have been around long enough and practiced different things long enough to know that somethings are a waste of time and somethings actually help on your path. I shared my thoughts on Shaktipat and i dont recall ever saying that what KAP does for people is BS or that it cant help them in some ways. its not just KAP itself necessarily its the people that are behind it that help the person. this is what you all do. you are helping people and i commend you for it. my only point coming from the direction i do has been discussed already so i wont go back there. i am only trying to make a point.

 

as for your conversations they arent detrimental at all, in fact i like reading them.

do i agree with them always...well no..but that doesnt mean i think everything you say is complete horse crap. LOL come one. ANYONE can tell you and Vaj know some stuff. sometimes when i post and it may seem directed at you in your mind, in mine i am thinking of someone completely different, not on this board at all that i have came across but i dont like to mention names that often. some i have thought of have been recently spoke about here. i just dont care to name names all the time. sometimes i say its a joke for people to charge what they do, this isnt directed at you personally either. i ask quesitons like why charge that much. why call it that etc. i understand the universe doesnt care if someone gets paid but my God some charges hundreds and i think that is a bit much but its only my opinion. thats all.

 

so as you can see i am not always thinking about what i can say to ruffle your feathers or just disagreeing with you just to do so. i stated my thoughts before. there is no need to continue down that line right now. now hopefully this will ease the tension that leaps out of the computer screen and we can go on with our little discussions.

 

i can say, whether what you do is REAL or not, what you are doing helps people so that should be looked at as a positive thing and i can honor that.

[ShaktiMama]

I glanced at the shaktipat link that Shaktimama posted, which is now lost in the dust, and I see I was incorrect about 'real' shaktipat so I appologize to Shaktimama. There are also various levels of wimpy shaktipat in addition to real shaktipat, and there's also the super duper deathtouch shaktipat, I think the one I got was second from the top, and like whatsisname said, one is enough.

 

 

no problem.

 

i like what you say about death touch shaktipat and wimpy shaktipat. in my experience i have seen a wide variety of demos or have had it.

 

there are a lot of variables which can determine if you have what type.

 

i have seen shaktipat that knocks people to their knees will full on spontaneous kriyas for hours or even days. that has been my experience with Dr. Jensen.

 

But I have seen people get Shaktipat from him that has no effect that I can see but what I now know is that the affect can be accumulative over the years.

 

Another variable is how much prep has the "shaktipatee" gotten before the transmission. Generally, the cleaner the "pipes", energy body, because of some internal cultivation practices like qigong or yoga or even therapy and in the presence of an authentic shaktipater...these people will have profound experiences. So, I would say those are my favorites to work with.

 

I remember once giving Shaktipat to a guy who had a three year qigong practice with Shaolin GrandMaster Jin Fa of Vancouver. When I give shaktipat in person to someone who has a half hour or so appointment with me I spend time removing energetic blocks, looking deep within them, and sharing what I find. When I got to his heart chakra and laid my hands on it he spontanteously erupted into deep bliss and the most beautiful mudras, asanas, and spontaneous qigong that I had ever seen. I never did get to his crown.

 

This activity went on for a few hours and then we took him to where he was staying. I received a phone call the next morning that the process was continuing and he was having a hard time because the boundaries between the real and the REAL were dissolving. He was scared. Seeing all kinds of things so he was a bit in overwhelm.

 

I had them bring him back to my apartment, made a "nest" for him on the floor of my living room with lots of pillows and blankets, and let him stay for the next five days. There I could keep an eye on him and soothe the flow which sometimes just required a touch or a look. My cat Hunter also helped by curling up to him and giving him comfort. Not that it was painful physically but there is some fear when these changes happen.

 

As a side note: Jin Fa wanted to know who zapped him with "bad" energy when my friend went back to Vancouver. I came to learn that bad energy is really an expression of territorialism because you learn with one teacher and one teacher only. Anything else is bad. One reason I know this is because I eventually met Jin Fa and we actually taught a couple of seminars in tandem together. He became quite fond of me. We never told him where that "bad" energy came from.

 

Sometimes people come to me and demand to get Shaktipat with the idea well, if I pay I can get. No one gets it who demands. Never. I don't care how much money you give me. People are paying for my time, expertise, etc. never for the actual Shaktipat.

 

I have turned away my fair share of people seeking shaktipat. Santi does too. Santiago has also given some serious thought to taking all comers. You really only have to be shit on a couple of times or in his case more than a couple of times and realize that might not be such a good thing to offer everything to everybody.

 

People who are responsible Shaktipatters will look after the person's welfare long after the Shaktipat is over.

 

Some people, no matter how much prep work they have done, it is like throwing seed upon rocks. Nothing grows. That's alright because if they got death touch shaktipat they might just feel like they are going to die. The most powerful death touch shaktipat came to me not from a person. Generally, that comes from an appearance by Shiva, Ganesh, Kali or sometimes it is just Consciousness. I once gave shaktipat to an individual because he kept pestering me over and over and over. So when I cleared a block, 5 minutes later it would grow back. I would clear and it would grow back. I tried for several times and Shaktipat did not really take in him.

 

I can also speak to Shaktipat by holding an object that is worn by someone who gives Shaktipat. I just love holding Santi's prayer beads. He has been using them in prayer/chanting for so long it's like sweet bliss Shaktipat to wear them. Some of my students like to put on my shawl because it absorbs the Shakti when I teach and they like to sit and just smile.

 

There has to be, in my experiences, a quality of longing or desire for whatever Shakti/God/dess/Spirit/Source can bring to the person. The more it is like uniting with a lover, a la Rumi, the deeper the unfolding the more Shakti settles in.

So if that is in place and even if there is no previous prep work the process can be profound. Some traditions substitute teacher/guru/spiritual personage in that place of the Source. So the characteristic of submission to that which you adore is an important ingredient. It is important though that that substitute knows that they are just the vessel and not the Source. Some get confused and begin to believe the adoration of the students is about them and not about the Source. Big trap.

 

I tell my students that I am an initiator, a catlayst. The energy/kundalini/bliss they feel is their own, not mine.

 

When someone has a cultivation practice and a combination of a submissive adoration it can be a recipe for something incredible. I will not attempt to describe the incredible because what is incredible to one is not so to another. Whatever unfolds is only meaningful for that person.

 

The biggest variable is the Unknown. Sometimes Shakti says, "no."

 

hope that helps some,

s

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

I never said that. The key is in the details.

 

no, YOU, did not!

 

 

No that's talking about being and non-being. I didn't say that either.

 

Nope, you're right again. you didnt. you're all or nothing, no balance.

 

It takes a refined intellect to truly understand, even directly. What is BEING and what is the WAY? The key is in the details and truly understanding how it all works will liberate, not taking refuge in a blank mind.

 

To truly refine the intellect, one must both "be" and "not be" at the same time. to most intellects, this is absurd. this is because the intellect divides our reality and creates duality where exists only in the aforementioned individual mind.

 

If you still need pointing toward the Zen of duality, i am more than happy to lend a finger.

 

See Buddhism is refined, particular and explanatory. It talks the self out of self attachment on all levels from form to formless. Not only does it use all sorts of energy methods, which cannot be discussed here, but it also utilizes the aspect of intellect in order for the right conclusions to be realized. It's not a vague path with ambiguous statements.

 

 

Thus it is a vague path with ambiguous statements.

 

 

It is too particular and refined, too biased and assertive toward a focus.

This is greatly beneficial in cultivating civil practices, but inherently distracts from the nature that precedes us.

 

I would like to ask a question and i would like you to keep it simple and direct with minimal references or words of reference (names).

 

 

Why do you insist so strongly upon your chosen path as superior to any other path?

[Starjumper]

Perhaps I don't want to agree with someone with a big belly - is there a skinnier enlightened I can agree with?

 

And in general, speaking of lightening, I see quite a bit of heaviness in this thread. No matter what anyone believes or practices everyone may find that light-heartedness can go a long way. You see, the world is divided up by "heavies" and "lighters". Heavies find it difficult to get in the boat that rows across the river to heaven (would sink the boat, you know?) so its the lighters that get to heaven. The only drawback is when they do they find they have to go back and swim across with 2 heavies each. Very difficult to achieve this stage of enlightenment. A stage of enlightenment even more difficult to achieve is the heavy who realizes that he must walk across the bottom of the river with a heavy on one shoulder and a lighter on another. Very imbalanced, but that is the way.

 

 

Oh man, you mean I have to teach fat people? No way! If someone doesn't have at least enough self respect to be healthy with proper weight they have no business coming to me to 'get healthy'.

 

But actually I'm scared of fat people, their energy usually feels icky, and here's one true story as to why:

 

I had this one student who was sort of chubby and we had been exercising together for a couple months when one time the word FAT started popping into my head. Well I felt mortified, you know, and was embarrassed and guilty. Sometimes the word would pop into my head as fat, sometimes as fat, sometimes P H A T, and sometimes like fat, but narry a word did escape my lips. That type of thing hadn't happened before, I couldn’t stop it and felt guilty and it was quite upsetting to me.

 

So at the end of class he comes up to me and says: “I’m not fat”. And I go whoa ... OK, whatever you say boss, and I probably had a look on my face that was like “Oh really?” and I didn’t say anything.

 

So I never heard from him again - no just kidding, he called and said he was too busy at work and was quiting Chi Kung. A little less than a year later he called back and said he had tried some other Chi Kung classes from some of the local Chinese ‘masters’ and that he had felt more energy when doing my Chi Kung at home and much more energy when doing it with me and he wanted to come back and be my student again.

 

I said: “Nah.” or something like that. I still had that guilt, fear, and dislike left from the psychic name calling I had done earlier, and I didn’t want to take a chance on the possibility that we would be practicing and have the word fat start popping up in my head all the time.

 

So that’s why I said that, honest.

_______________

 

Anyway, if you want to make fun of armchair Buddhist wannabees I have a lot of experience, I'm your guy, somebody stop me! Actually i can no longer bear to read their stuff so there's no comment.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Vajrahridaya]

Perhaps I don't want to agree with someone with a big belly - is there a skinnier enlightened I can agree with?

 

Indeed! You are talking about Bodhidharma's representation in the chinese culture? I know you are joking... don't worry.

But, I will take this instance to share because I'm just darn inspired to do so maaaaaaan!!

 

The Buddha unless doing intense prana retention or kumbaka, would have been quite skinny due to the face that he only ate one meal a day.

 

And in general, speaking of lightening, I see quite a bit of heaviness in this thread. No matter what anyone believes or practices everyone may find that light-heartedness can go a long way. You see, the world is divided up by "heavies" and "lighters". Heavies find it difficult to get in the boat that rows across the river to heaven (would sink the boat, you know?) so its the lighters that get to heaven. The only drawback is when they do they find they have to go back and swim across with 2 heavies each. Very difficult to achieve this stage of enlightenment. A stage of enlightenment even more difficult to achieve is the heavy who realizes that he must walk across the bottom of the river with a heavy on one shoulder and a lighter on another. Very imbalanced, but that is the way.

:lol:

 

Or those that are light in mind but heavy in karma but enlighten that heavy karma and end up dragging tons of crocodiles, alligators, crabs and lobsters with him/her to heaven by walking deep in the valley... like the Buddha did.

[Vajrahridaya]

Why do you insist so strongly upon your chosen path as superior to any other path?

 

Because the philosophy is superior, the insight into cosmology is superior, the methodology for subtlifying (excuse my poetic license) inner experience is superior, the teachers are superior, and the result is superior.

 

[CarsonZi]

Hi Vajrahridaya and All

 

Because the philosophy is superior, the insight into cosmology is superior, the methodology for subtlifying (excuse my poetic license) inner experience is superior, the teachers are superior, and the result is superior.

 

You can't KNOW this. You would have to know ALL possible paths in order to truly Know this. What works for one does not always work for another. There is no one path that works for everyone.

 

Love!

[Starjumper]

Now there's one that's short enough to read.

 

Because the philosophy is superior, the insight into cosmology is superior, the methodology for subtlifying (excuse my poetic license) inner experience is superior, the teachers are superior, and the result is superior.

 

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

 

Bunch of verbose escapists, phhht.

[Vajrahridaya]

Hi Vajrahridaya and All

 

 

 

You can't KNOW this. You would have to know ALL possible paths in order to truly Know this. What works for one does not always work for another. There is no one path that works for everyone.

 

Love!

 

As far as a path on Earth goes. It is.

 

Now there may be secret transmission that lead to the same results hidden deep in the mountains of China, or whatever, called whatever on whatever planet. But if it has the 4 marks... it's Buddhism by another name.

 

If it identifies with a source of existence that is homogenous with the all, and a background to all things that self exists from it's own light, or is the will of the all or the Self of the all. Or is an Alpha and Omega or identifies it as the one that is the all. The result of that path will not be the same as Buddhadharma as there are inherent knowledge afflictions in the methodology that lead to subtle obscurations or are reflective of subtle obscurations, even if it seems blissful and light at the time.

[CarsonZi]

As far as a path on Earth goes. It is.

 

You can't know this. You BELIEVE this. And this belief is holding you back from liberation. It creates seperation. And ALL seperation is an illusion created in the mind.

 

Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

Now there's one that's short enough to read.

 

 

 

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

 

Bunch of verbose escapists, phhht.

 

I'll catch your spit. Thanks for burning some of my karma.

[Vajrahridaya]

You can't know this. You BELIEVE this. And this belief is holding you back from liberation. It creates seperation. And ALL seperation is an illusion created in the mind.

 

Love!

 

Why are you so sure that I can't know this? I don't think we define the subtleties of liberation similarly. As I have read your belief's, you believe in an all pervasive self existing essence that is one with the all.

 

So... your version of non-duality is substantial based on their truly being an absolute one, and thus not complete pristine clarity of the nature of things arises because of this condition. It's a subtle grasping at a universal Self, even if non-conceptually. You have taken refuge in a formless, non-conceptual phenomena.

 

Buddhahood is not oneness, it's connectivity, but not oneness. It's both not one and not two. It does not take up meditative experience as the path alone, and is not conditioned by such subtle phenomena as samadhi's. It does not take up a transcendent all being as refuge. So, practically speaking it is different, and it does lead to a different result, though it can't be seen on the surface of a person, but if you have a glimpse, you know this... directly.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[CarsonZi]

Hi Vajrahridya and All

 

Why are you so sure that I can't know this?

 

Because you can't. You can't KNOW what another needs to awaken. Everyone has different karma and a different "matrix of obstructions" blocking "the light".

 

I don't think we define the subtleties of liberation similarly.

 

Well, in the "A Question for Vaj the Buddhist" thread you just agreed with me on what liberation is. We both agreed that liberation is the loss of identification in a self, the loss of identification with All concepts, ideas and beliefs. And living in the "Now" 24/7.

 

As I have read your belief's, you believe in an all pervasive self existing essence that is one with the all.

 

You don't know what I believe at all. I don't "believe" in anything (not in the nihilist sort of way but in the "there are no absolutes" sort of way)

 

So... your version of non-duality is substantial based on their truly being an absolute one,

 

Actually I don't believe in any absolutes...as I just said above. Please stop putting words in my mouth (and beliefs in my mind)....that's not very nice, nor is it conducive to a civil conversation.

 

It's a subtle grasping at a universal Self, even if non-conceptually. You have taken refuge in a formless, non-conceptual phenomena.

 

No, actually I haven't. I don't grasp at anything, even a "universal self". We've already agreed that liberation is the loss of identification in a self. This means I don't believe in a "self".

 

Buddhahood is not oneness, it's connectivity, but not oneness.

 

You certainly are incredibly attached to all sorts of definitions and labels aren't you. And you seem to project an awful lot of definitions (and beliefs) on other people too. Attachment IS suffering. Gotta let go of your attachment to Buddhism (or what you are calling Buddhism) if you ever want to be truly liberated man. Let go.

 

It's both not one and not two.

 

Liberation/enlightenment is a letting go...not a holding on. And you are holding on to your beliefs tighter then just about anyone I have ever met. No offence meant.

 

Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

Hi Vajrahridya and All

 

 

 

Because you can't. You can't KNOW what another needs to awaken. Everyone has different karma and a different "matrix of obstructions" blocking "the light".

 

What anyone needs to awaken is right view. As the Buddha taught, it's not just about the light you get in meditation. It's about how you work with it and how you understand how it manifests. Enlightenment is not the attainment of one grandiose light of all in Buddhism. Being a Buddha is something subtler than this.

 

 

Well, in the "A Question for Vaj the Buddhist" thread you just agreed with me on what liberation is. We both agreed that liberation is the loss of identification in a self, the loss of identification with All concepts, ideas and beliefs. And living in the "Now" 24/7.

 

That's a side effect, yes... but if you remain an active Dharmapala at the pralaya. Then... There are plenty that will be blissful and seemingly free for a while, and go to high heavens and do great things. But, it all comes down to having truly burnt the seed of unconscious rebirth. So, there are stages to what you said and there is a deepening as well. There is clear cognition of how things work and how the cosmos cycles. Not just concept-less bliss. There is also clear cognition and understanding of the nature of everything, not just an experience.

 

 

You don't know what I believe at all. I don't "believe" in anything (not in the nihilist sort of way but in the "there are no absolutes" sort of way)

 

Ok, then I've misinterpreted our debates that we had last year. Then you will agree that the light experienced in meditation arises dependently, does not have inherent existence and is not the source of everything?

 

 

 

Actually I don't believe in any absolutes...as I just said above. Please stop putting words in my mouth (and beliefs in my mind)....that's not very nice, nor is it conducive to a civil conversation.

 

Sorry... I was just going on what we've discussed last year.

 

 

 

No, actually I haven't. I don't grasp at anything, even a "universal self". We've already agreed that liberation is the loss of identification in a self. This means I don't believe in a "self".

 

Ok... that's a mark of Buddhadharma. Buddha did influence all traditions around the world anyway.

 

 

 

You certainly are incredibly attached to all sorts of definitions and labels aren't you. And you seem to project an awful lot of definitions (and beliefs) on other people too. Attachment IS suffering. Gotta let go of your attachment to Buddhism (or what you are calling Buddhism) if you ever want to be truly liberated man. Let go.

 

It's more like the wisdom of Buddhahood. Please let go of your attachment to not understanding the Dharma as presented by Buddhas, not new age one-ists'.

 

The Buddha didn't teach that there are all sorts of paths to Buddhahood. He taught that Buddhadharma is the one universal vehicle and other Buddhas after him agreed because they understood the uniqueness of what he taught. So, either he was wrong or right... you can make the choice based upon your reference of influence. Don't call it free will, it's deeply conditioned.

 

Liberation/enlightenment is a letting go...not a holding on. And you are holding on to your beliefs tighter then just about anyone I have ever met. No offence meant.

 

Love!

 

They are not belief's, they are wisdoms and insights. Are you truly letting go? Buddhadharma is truly about letting go, but even on a formless non-conceptual level. Most paths take refuge in a non-conceptual experience and integrate that with everything calling everything one with "that." This is where this idea of all paths lead to God come from, the idea that all creation comes from one self existing source. Buddhadharma has a different teaching, it's deeply subtle, the meaning of inter-dependent origination as presented by Buddhas, as it's the deceptively profound insight into the cosmos that liberates.

[dwai]

Actually its not really just intellectual 'self' masturbation Dwai. This is too simplistic a stand to take. Even if it is so, should someone be able to glean some 'moisturized' wisdom (as opposed to the dry, wtf kind, which is often rough, crackly and fragile) from this, and arrives at the realization that perhaps it does makes sense to be watchful and take responsibility not only for one's actions but for one's thoughts as well, for they both have consequences regardless of being aware of them or not, then the theory of AV would have served at least one purpose, and cannot then be declared a useless 'self-pleasuring toy'.

 

Maybe this realization would prompt others dazed from lifetimes of conditioned, presupposed, self-centered will to cease 'masturbating', to wake up and be counted. This could then incite them to practice some form of energy-saving 'retention' (like mindfulness meditation, for eg), and perhaps by doing so, could potentially even end up awakening their dormant energy centre. How bad is that? After all, if one can begin to see how habitual responses can be transformed through understanding why this very transformation is so crucial, and then cultivate the skills to bring about beneficial outcomes, it can be extremely empowering and can be a source of immense freedom and energy.

 

This post above on AV is the expression of one writer's personal understanding based upon her own investigations. It is neither right or wrong. A bit of flexibility and encompassing wisdom on your part would have shown that you are indeed set apart from those whom you deem to be fixated, inflexible and uncompromising.

 

 

You are of course free to say there is totally no wisdom in this theory at all, but please, be magnanimous enough to credit it the 'moisturizing' effect it at least contains - then this masturbatory act you declared would not be so devoid of meaning, and can be viewed as not without traces of dignity attached to it.

 

It is absolutely that. It was driven by a desire to disprove the Self (or prove the Non-Self Anatta). What they didn't understand is that the Non-Self is not the Self. Read Shankaracharya's demolition of Alaya vijnana for a more erudite treatment of the subject. There are methods to do what you said without having to bend over backwards to prove a point simply because it was used as an analogy by the Buddha and a tool to help people discover what they really are, by first realizing what they are not (Neti Neti).

 

One will take responsibility for one's thoughts and actions only when they realize that They ARE IT...THEY ARE ONE...THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM AND OTHERS! That is the source of both infinite peace and infinite love.