Shaktipat

[Vajrahridaya]

You need to understand that "right view" is only a Buddhist view and is only relative to a Buddhist. To project this view onto the entire cosmos is incorrect. Further, you use reverse logic to substantiate a position that is at best untenable. Buddhism is not above any other belief system. It is just another belief system.

 

 

ralis

 

Actually, it's the closest explanation to how the cosmos works on so many dimensions that quantum physicists are still trying to prove through closed environment studies in a dualistic sense. You don't seem to have experiential understanding of this as of yet though. Buddhist cosmology is not a belief system, but an explanation of how things work that vastly outweighs the incomplete cosmologies of other systems of spiritual tradition.

 

Of course, you will disagree with me, following me around for as long as I am here in order to throw insubstantial punches in the air.

[Vajrahridaya]

As shown below many translators agree on Lao Tzu's Chapter 4 as follows:

 

Tao Teh Ching by Lao Tzu

Chapter 04 Sentence 5

Beck I do not know its source. It seems to have existed before the Lord.

 

Blackney Whose offspring it may be I do not know: It is like a preface to God.

 

Chan I do not know whose son it is. It seems to have existed before the Lord.

 

LaFargue I don't know of anything whose offspring it might be - it appears to precede God.

 

Legge I do not know whose son it is. It might appear to have been before God.

 

LinYutan I do not know whose Son it it, An image of what existed before God.

 

Mitchell I don't know who gave birth to it. It is older than God.

 

Muller It is the child of I-don't-know-who. And prior to the primeval Lord-on-high.

 

Walker But I do not know whose child it is - It came even before God.

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

From this I must conclude that Lao Tzu did not throw out the old belief in God, I think it was Shangdi. Here he is stating that the Tao - the Great Natural Way - flows through God itself, who also finds it as it's progenitor. Thus, I must conclude that Taoism is closer to Eternalism then to Buddhism, and that Taoism and Buddhism will always be two different sides of the coin, two polar opposites. Oh well. What ya gonna do. To each their own.

 

This is exactly what Hindus say about Brahman, that it is an essential nature that self exists' which the gods; Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva among others channel through their beings as first borns in this universe. But really it's just the potentiality left over from the previous universe before the Pralaya of the last universe (internet explanation of Pralaya). Basically it's the karmas left over from the previous universe that seems to come after them, thus they consider the universe their emination and even sometimes argue about who the true god is as depicted in the Puranas (internet explanation of the Puranas). Really, this is why these gods are not omnipotent and cannot control our destiny, because our individual karmas extend endlessly, thus our so called "free will" does not come from them, and they do not inherently control us. They can relatively if we give ourselves to them, and they are blissful and seemingly complete, but are not, so our will becomes a gods will originating dependent upon our focus on these deeply powerful but highly deluded beings. This also explains Shaktipat a bit if you can understand this. This is why we do not owe our existence to anyone in particular, even the gods, or a GOD like Brahman, because really this is just a formless reservoir of karmic potentiality left over from universe after universe ad infinitum. Thus what they call Brahman or Tao is really just endless individuals' residual karmic traces in a formless dimension (as noted in the Buddhas explanation of the formless jhanas and the explanation of the Alaya-Vijnana), and because it seems to be without form in meditative experience, it's experienced as incredible bliss. But this too is not a Self of all, or a true nature of all. The true nature is merely interdependency and emptiness which is nothing graspable at all, as in there is no inherent foothold to base enlightenment on.

 

Enlightenment in Buddhism is an insight, not a yoking with an inherent essence of all. Thus the awakening experience in Buddhist tradition called Shaktipat in Hindu Tantra is not so wild like it is in other traditions because it's not based upon the same powers.

[ralis]

Actually, it's the closest explanation to how the cosmos works on so many dimensions that quantum physicists are still trying to prove through closed environment studies in a dualistic sense. You don't seem to have experiential understanding of this as of yet though. Buddhist cosmology is not a belief system, but an explanation of how things work that vastly outweighs the incomplete cosmologies of other systems of spiritual tradition.

 

Of course, you will disagree with me, following me around for as long as I am here in order to throw insubstantial punches in the air.

 

I am not interested in your put down of me.

 

 

Buddhist cosmology is only a theory and has yet to be absolutely proven. Why? If it were not, all who follow the Buddha would be on the same level and have all the powers associated with. The Buddha is given way too much credit!

 

Here you go again with your hierarchy.

 

ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

I am not interested in your put down of me.

 

 

Buddhist cosmology is only a theory and has yet to be absolutely proven.

 

It can be proven through meditative experience and contemplative insight originating dependent upon experiential understanding of dependent origination.

 

 

Why? If it were not, all who follow the Buddha would be on the same level and have all the powers associated with. The Buddha is given way too much credit!

 

The Buddha is considered a type of Buddha, a wheel turning Buddha who turned the first wheel of Dharmic teachings on planet Earth in this era. But, I have met plenty of beings who have incredible powers of perception and so called magic, like appearing in multiple places at once, beings who can teach you in your dreams and be completely aware of having done this. Beings who can time travel... etc., etc... But, in order to have experience of this from these being there has to be karmic opening and congruency with these beings as every experience originates dependent upon such criteria.

 

 

Here you go again with your hierarchy.

 

ralis

 

Yes, there are beings who are more deeply realized than others. Yes, there are beings who are liberated, and those that are close to liberation, and beings who are somewhat bound by various qualities and others who are really, really bound and experience deep psychological suffering and physical suffering originating dependent upon lack of insight into the nature of things.

 

You seem to be one of them who suffer from my posts dependent upon a lack of experiential insight into the meaning of my word associations. Thus, you follow me around incessantly, throwing spit balls, kind of like an insecure bully.

 

Take this in... contemplate it, find out from where within you are truly bothered and try to untie this knot. Your interpretation of my posts is merely your interpretation and not reality. Come on... it's been two years of you struggling with your view of me. Haven't you even seen a little bit of yourself?

Edited July 3, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[ralis]

It can be proven through meditative experience and contemplative insight originating dependent upon experiential understanding of dependent origination.

 

 

 

 

The Buddha is considered a type of Buddha, a wheel turning Buddha who turned the first wheel of Dharmic teachings on planet Earth in this era. But, I have met plenty of beings who have incredible powers of perception and so called magic, like appearing in multiple places at once, beings who can teach you in your dreams and be completely aware of having done this. Beings who can time travel... etc., etc... But, in order to have experience of this from these being there has to be karmic opening and congruency with these beings as every experience originates dependent upon such criteria.

 

 

 

 

Yes, there are beings who are more deeply realized than others. Yes, there are beings who are liberated, and those that are close to liberation, and beings who are somewhat bound by various qualities and others who are really, really bound and experience deep psychological suffering and physical suffering originating dependent upon lack of insight into the nature of things.

 

You seem to be one of them who suffer from my posts dependent upon a lack of experiential insight into the meaning of my word associations. Thus, you follow me around incessantly, throwing spit balls, kind of like an insecure bully.

 

Take this in... contemplate it, find out from where within you are truly bothered and try to untie this knot. Your interpretation of my posts is merely your interpretation and not reality. Come on... it's been two years of you struggling with your view of me. Haven't you even seen a little bit of yourself?

 

 

2 yrs.? You signed on here last May.

 

ralis

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

Of course, you will disagree with me, following me around for as long as I am here in order to throw insubstantial punches in the air.

 

 

Not to get involved with the ongoing fight between the fixed and the fluid.... but I noticed something interesting a short while ago in another thread.

 

I used to think it was true that Ralis chased you around the forum Vaj...and honestly speaking, sometimes it was...BUT, I have since realized you really like Ralis! I would even go as far to say as need Ralis, Ralis is like your exclamation mark in making points.... although for the most part he is the pursuer and you are the attractor.

 

The reason I say this Vaj is simply that I noticed on the other thread when Ralis was completely leaving you alone you suddenly threw out a comment about Ralis that wasn't even related to the topic... you must have known he would come along! I mean it's Ralis!

 

Personally speaking I think you two are possibly the most determined people going around here....both with very good points I might add(when it doesn't go pear shaped). You're like long lost brothers or something! I wonder if either of you have realized yet you both share some similar characteristics, although the views are fundamentally different. I think you'd get on like a house on fire!

 

Anyway, just thinking outloud...don't fry me please

[Tao99]

Edited July 9, 2010 by Tao99

[Vajrahridaya]

2 yrs.? You signed on here last May.

 

ralis

 

Ok. I've moved around a lot since then so it seems longer... relative to my experience. Ah! Relativity.

[Vajrahridaya]

There is a big difference. Lao Tzu is referring to the "Supreme God" being the One God, whatever name you want to give it. There is only one of these. Let's call it GOD, as opposed to gods. So no need here to think in terms of that.

 

This is exactly what the most powerful gods think they are, the one true GOD of all. They teach this and convince through a show of powers, bliss and seeming control to those that are won over by one or the other so called, GOD of all.

 

Of course not. They are gods, not GOD. But they are a different story. Here we are simply talking about the One God that is the Supreme God, as Creator of all that followed it, on some level. So this has nothing to do with Hindu gods, and you need to therefore not compare it to that. It doesn't apply.

 

Hindu god, Christian god, Islamic god... whatever. They all suffer from the same delusion as elaborated upon in my answer to the first paragraph.

 

 

See above.

 

See within... LOL!... kidding.

 

No, you are right, we do not owe our existence to gods. But they are not what we are talking about here. Pls see the Tao outside your Hindu lens. See above.

 

You didn't read my first sentence correctly. I was saying that Brahman is considered the "one" essential nature of all, even of the gods. So, it's equivalent to Tao. But still considered a mis-cognition according to Buddhas. As in a mis-interpretation of meditative experience, reified and considered the absolute truth of all things. So, this also applies to Tao and is not only a Hindu mis-understanding, it's quite a universal mis-understanding.

 

Taoism does not require any yoking to an inherent essence of God, and that is not even discussed It is about the Tao, the Great Natural Way (which is different then Brahman, so you need to realize that, and see outside your Hindu lens). It's awakening is found through literally, specifically observing Nature. A thought (belief/view) is in no way involved with it's ultimate awareness and resultant Quietude, and none are needed.

 

This is how it's considered in Hinduism to realize Brahman. Through observing nature. I'm not merely seeing through a Hindu lens here, I'm merely making a comparison. In Taoism, I have read many times that one is to become one with the Tao of things. To merge ones awareness with this ultimate state of being. This would still not hold up in the court of Buddhahood. I'm just saying, just as you have said, that Buddhist insight is not equivalent with Taoist interpretation of Cosmos. Buddhism has a different cosmology basing movement upon infinite regress instead of a primal single, self existing origin.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

All this makes me realize that internet fora are largely a HUGE waste of time and many of us deceive ourselves that we're accomplishing something 'important' by posting here ad infinitum.

[JustARandomPanda]

In Taoism, I have read many times that one is to become one with the Tao of things. To merge ones awareness with this ultimate state of being. This would still not hold up in the court of Buddhahood. I'm just saying, just as you have said, that Buddhist insight is not equivalent with Taoist interpretation of Cosmos. Buddhism has a different cosmology basing movement upon infinite regress instead of a primal single, self existing origin.

 

Or to put it more simply - There is no Mystery (yo), only the Manifest (wu).

[JustARandomPanda]

All this makes me realize that internet fora are largely a HUGE waste of time and many of us deceive ourselves that we're accomplishing something 'important' by posting here ad infinitum.

 

It's a time waster alright but it's quite fun and sometimes informative. If it weren't none of us would be here. Gripe all we want about the silliness of it yet still we come back for one more hit like junkies.

[ShaktiMama]

Hi Susan, would you say more on healing others' core channels?

 

 

Whether my client is laying on a table, standing, or sitting, or it is long distance I "look" into the channel. If you are new to it just stand at the client's head and look down thru the crown of the head into the body. Dr. Johnson teaches how to do this in his first level medical qigong class if you are interested in formal training or you can buy his first volume on medical qigong. Your intent to "see" into the core channel will help you develop that skill.

 

We are working with the area around the Baihu or Du Mai 20 and Sahasrara (crown) chakra if you are just learning for a reference point. Baihui means "one hundred meetings" and is the highest point of the Upper Dan Tian. "This refers to the ancient understanding that an individual can access and receive divine messages and spiritual intuitions through this point. The esoteric Daoists understand that the Baihui is one of the areas that directs the Heavenly Qi into the chamber of the Mysterious Elixir, located within the third ventricle of the Brain. The Baihi is sometimes known as the the upper gate of the Taiji Pole (central core), or the upper gate of the Seventh Chakra. ...." Johnson Vol 1 pg 229 Energetic Anatomy and Physiology.

 

In my experience and personal practice the core channel connects the practitioner between heaven and earth so I see it as connected to the heavens and the center of the earth. The practitioner is a the nexus point between heaven and earth, a vessel of alchemy, as energies move from higher frequencies to lower frequencies, from less dense to more dense, from material to immaterial and back again. So it is important that the core be clear for these purposes.

 

Looking into the core I have been privileged to see many things from past lives, to major archetypes and so on depending on what is shown to me. I don't go looking for specific things. I just depend on what the client tells me and what the core shows me.

 

Inside the core can be anything from infinite silence to chaos depending on the person. I have found all kinds of astral critters to beautiful temples. It can be cluttered or empty. It can be radiant or dark. There is a huge variety.

 

My role as a healer is to facilitate the restoration of balance and harmony. I dont try to change anything. I just rely on my refined sense of intuition and connection to tell me where to go and assist the body spirit mind complex to heal itself.

 

hope that helps some.

s

[ShaktiMama]

Anything like the pic attached?

 

 

 

Interesting - What were the sensory experiences accompanying this downwards flow? What kind of time-frame?... what happened with the 'tail bone experiences'?... did the energy rise back up when it reached the tail bone?

 

PS - anyone that feels this is out of scope of this thread, please speak up.

 

 

more like this color

 

i dont hear much about spontaneous downward flow although I hear of crown awakenings first. Then it the next people really talk about is the heart opening. Sometimes this happens before the crown opens.

 

I have heard some tell me that the down ward flow down the front feels cold.

 

I dont know how that is related to apana flow...one of the pranas of the body.

s

 

the pic seems to come and go see here is the url

http://bogard.110mb.com/electric%20blue.jpg

Edited July 3, 2010 by ShaktiMama

[ShaktiMama]

Thank you.

 

My practice involves this downward flow. It's rare to hear of it, so I'm always interested. The 'walking space' and light but penetrating bliss state is familiar (although rare for me at this point) sensation. And of course the lights in the head... Spontaneous kriyas are also a big part of my practice.

 

What else does Muktananda say about this? what's 'Sahasarara'? did you experience any changes in temperature? any songs/tunes/melodies ever spontaneously arise? any physical or sensory changes in the head? This happened to you spontaneously?

 

 

Sorry for all the questions - but for me it's so unusual of someone outside of my 'school' to speak of this particular path. So all you have to say on the subject is greatly appreciated.

 

when my crown chakra was opening I was shown it opening. yes many golden petals but...of such beauty. I have never seen a pic that does it justice.

 

Very organic and it moves. Think of a sea anenome's movement in very gentle ocean current. I could see expansion and contraction of each individual petal. It was white gold and for some reason the image of it brought to mind the phrase "electron orbital".

 

Kinda if you combine these pics qualities you might get an idea.

 

 

s

 

here are just the links

http://www.chemistrydaily.com/chemistry/upload/7/70/HAtomOrbitals2.png

 

http://www.organicchemistry.22web.net/basic/1ssmall.png

Edited July 3, 2010 by ShaktiMama

[Vajrahridaya]

Or to put it more simply - There is no Mystery (yo), only the Manifest (wu).

 

Well, just that the experience of mystery originates dependent upon ignorance.

[Vajrahridaya]

It's a time waster alright but it's quite fun and sometimes informative. If it weren't none of us would be here. Gripe all we want about the silliness of it yet still we come back for one more hit like junkies.

 

I find that my view has become refined over the years due to these debates. I wouldn't even be a Buddhist right now if it wasn't for internet forums.

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Anyway, just thinking outloud...don't fry me please

 

I think ralis might actually be a nice guy in person. I get a hint of that from time to time.

[ShaktiMama]

Whether my client is laying on a table, standing, or sitting, or it is long distance I "look" into the channel. If you are new to it just stand at the client's head and look down thru the crown of the head into the body. Dr. Johnson teaches how to do this in his first level medical qigong class if you are interested in formal training or you can buy his first volume on medical qigong. Your intent to "see" into the core channel will help you develop that skill.

 

We are working with the area around the Baihu or Du Mai 20 and Sahasrara (crown) chakra if you are just learning for a reference point. Baihui means "one hundred meetings" and is the highest point of the Upper Dan Tian. "This refers to the ancient understanding that an individual can access and receive divine messages and spiritual intuitions through this point. The esoteric Daoists understand that the Baihui is one of the areas that directs the Heavenly Qi into the chamber of the Mysterious Elixir, located within the third ventricle of the Brain. The Baihi is sometimes known as the the upper gate of the Taiji Pole (central core), or the upper gate of the Seventh Chakra. ...." Johnson Vol 1 pg 229 Energetic Anatomy and Physiology.

 

In my experience and personal practice the core channel connects the practitioner between heaven and earth so I see it as connected to the heavens and the center of the earth. The practitioner is a the nexus point between heaven and earth, a vessel of alchemy, as energies move from higher frequencies to lower frequencies, from less dense to more dense, from material to immaterial and back again. So it is important that the core be clear for these purposes.

 

Looking into the core I have been privileged to see many things from past lives, to major archetypes and so on depending on what is shown to me. I don't go looking for specific things. I just depend on what the client tells me and what the core shows me.

 

Inside the core can be anything from infinite silence to chaos depending on the person. I have found all kinds of astral critters to beautiful temples. It can be cluttered or empty. It can be radiant or dark. There is a huge variety.

 

My role as a healer is to facilitate the restoration of balance and harmony. I dont try to change anything. I just rely on my refined sense of intuition and connection to tell me where to go and assist the body spirit mind complex to heal itself.

 

hope that helps some.

s

 

 

I received a response to this post but the person felt the thread was hijacked and wrote me personally. I would like to comment a little bit about what they wrote to further the conversation about shaktipat. I hope they don't mind.

 

They wrote:

"I also pray, which is new to me, since I am not religious, and haven't been that spiritual in my life. And with my increasing spirituality, I find it challenging to describe what's going on with others, i.e. friends and family. To use the word 'divine' is so new to me.

 

The energy so far seems to be spiraling in through my head. I have already had some welcome releases: jaw, eyes, shoulder. When twisting around the spine, I could tell that it could even help my hip to release. Fascinating stuff, when you trust this energy. One day the energy was trying to bust out of my scalp, even felt a flickering sensation in my crown. Makes me curious and excited about the path ahead of me. And I see your point about keeping microtension in the body so you don't bounce all over the place. Even sitting at my desk at work, not meditating, I feel movements beginning.

 

My reply:

 

It is a bit hard not to notice spiritual type feelings and words start to come up as this energy develops in the body. I really think that the purpose of kundalini...to speak in western terms...is to heal the body mind spirit matrix. When that is healed we begin to live in concert or harmony with All That Is, The Divine, The Dao, God, etc. Only the name is important to the practitioner. When we live in harmonious relationship with Nature life becomes one of pro-activity rather than a reactive knee jerk response to a situation. We no longer will be pulled around by our desires and the demands of a subconscious that never really advanced beyond the two year old developmental stage which focuses on survival and behaving defiantly as it establishes it's place in the world.

 

The fact you can feel and sense the movement is great. One of the hardest things people have to do on this path is to develop sensitivity to energy flow. Then, as you said, we surrender to the flow and let the energy lead. This is definately not a path of the mind as primary instrument. Although not reviled as some do reviling the body and it's senses, it does takes it's place as one of the tools available to us as we develop energetically.

 

Good work,

s

 

I suppose we could start a shaktipat 2 thread and leave this one to the debate.

Edited July 3, 2010 by ShaktiMama

[Birch]

Thanks Susan!

 

I guess we could start another one. Right after I mention this:

 

"In my experience and personal practice the core channel connects the practitioner between heaven and earth so I see it as connected to the heavens and the center of the earth. The practitioner is a the nexus point between heaven and earth, a vessel of alchemy, as energies move from higher frequencies to lower frequencies, from less dense to more dense, from material to immaterial and back again. So it is important that the core be clear for these purposes."

 

Because IMO and IME a person is just that. Kind of a "converter" for the expression/manifestation of whatever the whatever is (I'll leave the definitions to everyone else)

 

IMO it's "better" that a person does not suffer in their experience of being such a conduit. The "reasons" people suffer are wholly debatable but I keep asking right now, "Why would such suffering be part of the manifestation in the first place"?

 

Feel free to open another thread :-)

[ShaktiMama]

Thanks Susan!

 

I guess we could start another one. Right after I mention this:

 

"In my experience and personal practice the core channel connects the practitioner between heaven and earth so I see it as connected to the heavens and the center of the earth. The practitioner is a the nexus point between heaven and earth, a vessel of alchemy, as energies move from higher frequencies to lower frequencies, from less dense to more dense, from material to immaterial and back again. So it is important that the core be clear for these purposes."

 

Because IMO and IME a person is just that. Kind of a "converter" for the expression/manifestation of whatever the whatever is (I'll leave the definitions to everyone else)

 

IMO it's "better" that a person does not suffer in their experience of being such a conduit. The "reasons" people suffer are wholly debatable but I keep asking right now, "Why would such suffering be part of the manifestation in the first place"?

 

Feel free to open another thread :-)

 

Personally, I think suffering is related to attachment. I know that is addressed in other traditions and people can bring quotes and debates on this out the yin yang but I am just speaking of what I learned based on my own personal experiences without the benefit of those traditions.

 

Fighting against What Is is a surefire way to ensure that drama and suffering are ever present in our daily life. What is the antidote or the answer? Yes, that will bring out the theorist from the other traditions but I will share what works from my own experiences in trying to hash it out myself.

 

Relax, breathe, and let it go.

 

Speaking in the context of having kundalini running through my body...not if I don't: This means relax into the flow of energy, whether that is kundalini or the flow between heaven and earth. For many using the mind works to accomplish this., For many of us using the body to stop fighting against What Is works. The blend of both, IMO, is the superior approach.

 

When we relax into the flow pains and obstacles are revealed. When I work with my hypnosis clients the deeper or more relaxed they get the more pains will show up. This is because the body splints areas of injuries and discomfort and when those splinting muscles start relaxing the pains come to the forefront again. The same thing is true with the emotional, mental, and spiritual bodies. The more relaxed those structures become that support an injured area the injured area starts being noticed again. Then we can get to original or source issues and letting them go.

 

No,*I* won't start another thread about kundalini and shaktipat.

 

love,

s

[Trunk]

The central channel ... Energy goes in there, stays there, dissolves~refines and Turns Into Nothing.

Would appreciate an expansion on this. This may put some questions in people's minds i think.

Well, with most channels you're working with "something": clearing obstruction, circulating, nourishing. That's good and facilitates a healthy body.

 

The central channel has special connection with Space and Light, the Non-Stuff that transcends the subject/object split of mundane consciousness. When making the transition from inside/outside based identity to identity based on Space and Light a lot "goes away" so there is a sense of "nothingness".

 

Energetically it works out that subtle energies "enter, abide, and dissolve" (phrase from the Six Yogas of Naropa) in the central channel... That is, they refine into Space and Light which 'feels' like "nothing". As contrasted w/ regular channels where you're nourishing w/ "something" (substances and subtle substances).

 

Hope that helps.

 

Trunk, "it is not only a matter of running energy through sushumna but concentrating and refining it at the special locations where sushumna intersects the centers"

 

I have a problem with this - in fact its based on something you mention later - "The central channel has special dynamics that has to do with it's special connection to Big Non-Stuff." When I'm at the 'depth' of the central channel - 'doing' anything (wanting a particular outcome) becomes meaningless... things do 'happen', but in no way am I able to direct them... .. the normal 'rules' don't apply there...

Agreed that normal rules don't apply there, Everything changes.

 

How I find myself relating to your post is via my own process, so I'll talk about that a little and if we're both lucky it will be somewhat relevant.

 

I studied with a series of several teachers who could fill a room with refined energy, and I was somewhat sensitive, so I got access to stillness pretty quickly. Thoughts stopped and I plunged into more and more powerfully refined inner spaces (that were at least partly made available by my teachers and connected lineage). Those refined spaces, coupled with still sitting, tend to gradually dissolve the human form. There is a lot of profound letting go. Some of that's good (opening, refinement, purification, etc).

 

The problem is that the Deeper Spaces get progressively more powerful, especially if you sit with Accomplished Teachers. The dissolving gets more powerful. You need something to hold yourself together. As I say in my overview page:

It is individual integration with forces larger than the individual,

in a way that both transcends and supports the individual,

that lends cultivation effectiveness, stability, and grace.

That is: you need both transcendence and cohesion otherwise you'll get dissolved~torn apart by the progressively higher states. And so we come to this, which I state in big bold letters at the top subtitle of my jing-to-Light essay:

The Clear Light has a natural resonance with the bindus.

There is an esoteric process of igniting the the bindus with yi + essence + Clear Light. Really important. It refines the personal energies of the centers in a way that fuels connection to the Primordial and keeps one's energetic body cohesive in the face of ever more powerful states of consciousness.

 

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply.

 

- Trunk

[ShaktiMama]

Well, with most channels you're working with "something": clearing obstruction, circulating, nourishing. That's good and facilitates a healthy body.

 

The central channel has special connection with Space and Light, the Non-Stuff that transcends the subject/object split of mundane consciousness. When making the transition from inside/outside based identity to identity based on Space and Light a lot "goes away" so there is a sense of "nothingness".

 

Energetically it works out that subtle energies "enter, abide, and dissolve" (phrase from the Six Yogas of Naropa) in the central channel... That is, they refine into Space and Light which 'feels' like "nothing". As contrasted w/ regular channels where you're nourishing w/ "something" (substances and subtle substances).

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

Agreed that normal rules don't apply there, Everything changes.

 

How I find myself relating to your post is via my own process, so I'll talk about that a little and if we're both lucky it will be somewhat relevant.

 

I studied with a series of several teachers who could fill a room with refined energy, and I was somewhat sensitive, so I got access to stillness pretty quickly. Thoughts stopped and I plunged into more and more powerfully refined inner spaces (that were at least partly made available by my teachers and connected lineage). Those refined spaces, coupled with still sitting, tend to gradually dissolve the human form. There is a lot of profound letting go. Some of that's good (opening, refinement, purification, etc).

 

The problem is that the Deeper Spaces get progressively more powerful, especially if you sit with Accomplished Teachers. The dissolving gets more powerful. You need something to hold yourself together. As I say in my overview page:

 

That is: you need both transcendence and cohesion otherwise you'll get dissolved~torn apart by the progressively higher states. And so we come to this, which I state in big bold letters at the top subtitle of my jing-to-Light essay:

 

There is an esoteric process of igniting the the bindus with yi + essence + Clear Light. Really important. It refines the personal energies of the centers in a way that fuels connection to the Primordial and keeps one's energetic body cohesive in the face of ever more powerful states of consciousness.

 

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply.

 

- Trunk

 

nicely said.

 

s

[C T]

Well, with most channels you're working with "something": clearing obstruction, circulating, nourishing. That's good and facilitates a healthy body.

 

The central channel has special connection with Space and Light, the Non-Stuff that transcends the subject/object split of mundane consciousness. When making the transition from inside/outside based identity to identity based on Space and Light a lot "goes away" so there is a sense of "nothingness".

 

Energetically it works out that subtle energies "enter, abide, and dissolve" (phrase from the Six Yogas of Naropa) in the central channel... That is, they refine into Space and Light which 'feels' like "nothing". As contrasted w/ regular channels where you're nourishing w/ "something" (substances and subtle substances).

 

Hope that helps.

 

- Trunk

Thanks for the elaboration Trunk. Much appreciated.

 

When you attend to this practice, do you occasionally get any vibrations around the heart centre by any chance? Any associated feeling, as if your heart becomes like a crystal lotus emitting endless rays of hazy white, red and blue light in the four directions? Lately this has been happening when i sit to do formal practices, and was wondering if you have, or had similar absorptions?

 

When this arises, usually i just watch how it does so, and then just consciously let it go, almost like building a paper raft and then gently releasing it by the stream and watching it slowly drift off downstream. Sometimes the visualization directs me to this paper raft as well, usually in red, with thousands of glowing bluish-white Mani mantras lighting it up, carrying the blessings to any being who sees it.

 

Just sharing a visualization experience here.

 

 

 

 

 

_/\_

[Trunk]

.. heart becomes like a crystal lotus emitting endless rays of hazy white, red and blue light in the four directions? Lately this has been happening when i sit to do formal practices, ...

 

Just sharing a visualization experience here.

 

Way cool.

I haven't had that particular experience.