Shaktipat

[Vajrasattva]

Yes with their consent. But V just said he gets bitch slapped by shakti whether he wants to or not. No consent. That means by definition oppression. And that means you are a slave to it by definition.

 

 

She/He/GODGODDESS/TAO/SOURCE OF ALL

 

can slap me any time it wishes.

 

It can do what it wants with me I am happy either way.

[Tao99]

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Edited July 31, 2010 by Tao99

[Starjumper]

So you are saying if I don't believe in a "bitch slapping" shakti that forces me to learn whether I want to or not, the very definition of oppression and slavery, not a metaphor, then that must mean that I don't want to develop spiritually? Is your way the ONLY way to develop spiritually?

 

What if I wanted to use a non-god way such as Taoist alchemy to develop spiritually. You are saying it can't be done. Your shakti way is the only way? Like the buddhist (some) believe theirs is the only way?

You have to go through hell to get to heaven, that's the Taoist way.

 

Tao is not god.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Sahaj Nath]

Yes with their consent. But V just said he gets bitch slapped by shakti whether he wants to or not. No consent. That means by definition oppression. And that means you are a slave to it by definition.

 

 

okay, this will be my final attempt to get through to you, because i think there are probably others here who don't get the distinction, either.

 

LIFE will bitch-slap you whether you want it to or not. it's that simple. ever get injured? ever lose a job? ever lose someone you love?

 

students submit to Rinzai methods and other practices of "cruelty" so that they can get over themselves AS PREPARATION FOR THE VERY UNFOLDING SANTI IS TALKING ABOUT.

 

those students are agreeing to accept punishment AS TRAINING, even when they don't necessarily want it. they don't get to say "okay, that's enough today." they are training themselves to have equanimity in all things, neither running towards nor running away from whatever arises. Santi made the same agreement when he decided to pursue his path in earnest. as did i. as did shaktimama. what you're arguing about is extremely superficial.

 

life does not wait for your consent. neither will death. it's not your call. and the extent to which you try to hold on to control is the extent to which you will suffer when reality surfaces.

 

i'm happy to make clarifications, but i'm done with the back-n-forth arguing.

[Vajrasattva]

And that's my point. Then what you are seeing is not the Tao the impersonal force that orders Nature w/o shakti/god interaction. Completely different. Not the Tao. Call it shakti or god or allah you submit to under threat of bitch slaps whether you want to or not, meaning as an oppressed slave, by definition.

 

But do not call that the Tao. Nothing in common and in fact polar opposite phenomenon. Couln't be more different.

 

 

haha it doesnt threaten me at all on the contrary I am always loved and cared for.

 

I submit out of love. I am nothing I am zero.

 

It is everything including you and me. It is also your TAO & MY SHAKTI AND EVEN BEYOND THIS.

[Tao99]

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Edited July 31, 2010 by Tao99

[Vajrasattva]

You have to go through hell to get to heaven, that's the Taoist way.

 

Tao is not god.

 

 

man follows earth earth follows tao

[Tao99]

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Edited July 31, 2010 by Tao99

[ShaktiMama]

all those instance you mention wasn't the shakti divine intelligence consciously doing it. It was simply a cause-effect event without any shakti/god interaction: the natural flow of impersonal nature.

 

and that makes us wrong and you right or at least worth fighting about because you have it all figured out for us.

 

gee...how oppressive is that?

 

no one's wrong and no one's right here. It's all a matter or perception of how we choose to live with that undefinable That which Is.

 

I choose my way. You choose your way. Someone will choose something else. Why argue about it? We all chose the perception we think we live in. To argue about this attachment to our perceptions is silly.

 

Use what works, what takes this vehicle from birth to death. Next time choose something else.

 

s

One man's trash is another man's treasure. I will defend your right to hold on to your treasure but dont try to make my treasure look like trash.

Edited July 28, 2010 by ShaktiMama

[Tao99]

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Edited July 31, 2010 by Tao99

[Sahaj Nath]

My problem is simply mixing Tao in with your shakti which I've shown don't mix, completely different and contradict each other, thus making Tao polar opposite of shakti. Then you mash Tao into that where it dont belong.

 

 

this only underscores what shaktimama and i both said: you weren't looking to understand; you were looking for a fight.

 

you haven't shown much of anything here, except your own stubborn dogmatism.

 

there's a reason why christian monks and buddhist monks don't argue over doctrine, and it's not just because they are being polite.

 

the territory is not the map.

 

the tao has no opposite.

[ShaktiMama]

Ah the House of Linji. I've been there. Been whacked., all consensual. You are mixing that in with the opposite: non-consensual bitch slapping whether you want it or not by shakti. By definition this is oppressing and enslaving and misery causing. So they are two very different things and my Zen master would be appalle that you compared the House of Linji with that nonconsensual bitch slapping by shakti whether they want to or not, and thus making slaves out of them. Yes, I will retire it with you.

 

 

It is consensual. I don't know why you have that idea about Santi that it wasn't. He has been following Shakti path since he was 16. That's half his life. That's why I said don't make assumptions about his life and practice because this is the internet. He went into this with his eyes wide open. If one opposes the natural order of the cosmos we will break ourselves upon it. Some call that bitch slapping. It has nothing to do with slavery or oppression. It's just words we choose to describe our experiences. All our lives have greater depth and texture that can ever be captured by writing on the internet.

 

 

s

Edited July 28, 2010 by ShaktiMama

[Tao99]

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Edited July 31, 2010 by Tao99

[Tao99]

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Edited July 31, 2010 by Tao99

[ShaktiMama]

its obvious in his post that started this. Maybe the assumptions are yours or you are just looking for a fight because of a bad hair day.

 

 

he says he still gets "bitch slapped" by shakti: V:"I prefer her loving hugs and kisses than her giant bitch slaps.:" So after all that time and training he is still under shakti's thumb, her slave who MUST follow her orders: "V: regardless of whether you want to learn or not learn"

 

In philosophy, That means no free will, and a clear case of forced behavior of a slave.

 

I'd say it is you who has huge inferiority issues with authority and have lost your human spark and become azombie slave doin the bidding "whether you want to or not" so as to avoid gettin bitch slapped by sakti.

 

his post didnt start it. you took offense, yes?, and wanted to talk about slavery and oppression. Were you trying to clarify in your opinion what you thought we were saying? your opinion...we have no free will. your opinion we have inferiority complexes. your opinion we are zombie slaves. You probably have requoted bitchslap more than a few times. Is being in bondage a hot button for you? If he said it was consensual submission to authority would you still argue and insist that it is non consensual based on a few sentences spoken in an internet conversation versus a 16 year traditional practice? Would you like anyone to judge your whole life, character, and practice from a few sentences spoken in an internet forum? Break your whole life on a difference of definition or opinion?

 

I haven't been bitch slapped by shakti since i was a noob. And, I get disciplined by my teacher and my teacher, which ultimately, is Shakti. Call it Goddess/God whatever floats your boat. I am not attached to the definition. To say That is God/dess is to limit what That Is. For communication sake I have used words that anthropomorphize and limit the expression and I know without a doubt that words limit expression and understanding. I accepted limits in what I know to help with understanding of the Which Can't be Known. I like to meet people where they are at and start from there. Most have a hard time knowing or even understanding That Which Cannot Be Known as the Natural Order of the Universe. And if you think I am talking about God...I am not. But talking in terms of Divine opens conversation. It takes us someplace that maybe some day we can talk about...the Unknoweable.

 

It's better, in my personal experience, to follow and allow the natural order of the universe to unfold instead of resisting. IMO, kundalini heals the split between the body/spirit/mind matrix if not resisted. What the result ends to be is a person who dances in natural concert with the Tao. The person is no longer a slave to knee jerk reactions of the immature mind and desires but flows in a spontaneous natural harmony with All That Is. There is no resistance and there is no oppression.

 

s

[Sahaj Nath]

IMO, kundalini heals the split between the body/spirit/mind matrix if not resisted. What the result ends to be is a person who dances in natural concert with the Tao. The person is no longer a slave to knee jerk reactions of the immature mind and desires but flows in a spontaneous natural harmony with All That Is. There is no resistance and there is no oppression.

 

s

 

THIS!

 

[Vajrasattva]

his post didnt start it. you took offense, yes?, and wanted to talk about slavery and oppression. Were you trying to clarify in your opinion what you thought we were saying? your opinion...we have no free will. your opinion we have inferiority complexes. your opinion we are zombie slaves. You probably have requoted bitchslap more than a few times. Is being in bondage a hot button for you? If he said it was consensual submission to authority would you still argue and insist that it is non consensual based on a few sentences spoken in an internet conversation versus a 16 year traditional practice? Would you like anyone to judge your whole life, character, and practice from a few sentences spoken in an internet forum? Break your whole life on a difference of definition or opinion?

 

I haven't been bitch slapped by shakti since i was a noob. And, I get disciplined by my teacher and my teacher, which ultimately, is Shakti. Call it Goddess/God whatever floats your boat. I am not attached to the definition. To say That is God/dess is to limit what That Is. For communication sake I have used words that anthropomorphize and limit the expression and I know without a doubt that words limit expression and understanding. I accepted limits in what I know to help with understanding of the Which Can't be Known. I like to meet people where they are at and start from there. Most have a hard time knowing or even understanding That Which Cannot Be Known as the Natural Order of the Universe. And if you think I am talking about God...I am not. But talking in terms of Divine opens conversation. It takes us someplace that maybe some day we can talk about...the Unknoweable.

 

It's better, in my personal experience, to follow and allow the natural order of the universe to unfold instead of resisting. IMO, kundalini heals the split between the body/spirit/mind matrix if not resisted. What the result ends to be is a person who dances in natural concert with the Tao. The person is no longer a slave to knee jerk reactions of the immature mind and desires but flows in a spontaneous natural harmony with All That Is. There is no resistance and there is no oppression.

 

s

 

i haven't been bitched slapped either since a noob aswell. Its normal. I am not oppressed I am not a slave. I am a servent by choice of that which I know as my Divine Source which is also me and is also all and is with in and beyond all.

[Birch]

friends, I's been slapped up inside da head several times. I suggest it's a wake-up call. I'd rather dance with whatever than be lead through the Gnose (pun intended )

[bindo]

oops upside your head

[3bob]

no i wasn't looking for a fight. I was tring to show that the Tao is not shakti as you often see implied here. Thats the simple point I wanted to make and did make: Tao is an impersonal force that order the universe without any god interactions. None. It's the Way of Nature, so does not belong in a shakti/god/souce/goddess list which is where it was. That was it. Thats called classification not looking for a fight. Usually the one who goes to fight language is the one who has it on his mind (you).

 

"...Tao is an impersonal force that order the universe without any god interactions. None...." by Tao99

 

Tao99, I'll barge in for a moment here because I believe there are some great Sages of Taoism that may not quite put it that way. See below:

 

"Yuan-shih T'ien-tsun -- The First Principal

He has no beginning and no end. He existed "before the void and the silence, before primordial chaos." He is self-existing, changeless, limitless, invisible, contains all virtues, is present in all places and is the source of all truth".

 

A most excellent and fully enlightened insight (imo) from whoever first composed it!!!

 

Om

[Tao99]

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Edited July 31, 2010 by Tao99

[Vajrasattva]

tao is not a "he". tao was never meant to be god. quite the opposite actually as it's simply the "Impersonal Way of Nature". sorry

 

 

haha so what was its name before the Tao ? the "name" Tao in Taoism is not that old in the grandscheme of things....

[Tao99]

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Edited August 6, 2010 by Tao99

[Tao99]

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Edited July 31, 2010 by Tao99

[3bob]

tao is not a "he". tao was never meant to be god. quite the opposite actually as it's simply the "Impersonal Way of Nature". sorry

 

The conventional type use of words (including pronouns) to try and allude to what can't really be circumscribed by words shouldn't really be a problemo for us, that is unless we prefer an inflexible, dogmatic, approach and response.

 

A very simple example: the word "darkness" means evil to some, in Taoism it often means unknown or of mystery.

 

Btw, the saying I quoted is from a form Taoism, sorry.

Edited July 29, 2010 by 3bob