No insults in Taoist/Personal Practice Discussion

[sean]

Ok, it's late and I'm tired but I just want to spit out a first draft of a new guideline. Feel free to discuss.

 

No more personal insults in Taoist Discussion or Personal Practice Discussion.

 

Completely disagreeing with a person and their lifestyle choices is fine. Finding someone's opinion, technique, politics, approach, etc. absurd, evil, stupid, ridiculous is fine.

 

But no insulting (or links to attacks) of individuals, nationalities, genders, political preferences, or lifestyle choices.

 

Here is an update of our insult policy, please read it and abide by it:

 

 

Tao bums is a moderated, privately owned, web site; all who agree with our guiding principals are welcome to join our discussions:

 

Treat other members with respect. No personal attacks.

Moderators are present to enforce this, please abide by their decisions.

 

 

 

This may seem restrictive but I think it'll force us to grow up a bit and think about how to present our perspectives intelligently without just flinging unproductive rudeness at each other. No one, including the originating poster, gains anything from statements like "So and so is a complete moron" or "XYZ sexual preference is abominable". If you have an opinion and you believe it's relevant to a topic at hand, post it as constructively as possible so we can learn from you, debate with you, ignore you, whatever.

 

If you can't abide by this simple constructive guideline, create a rant in "The Pit", a new little Off Topic subforum for the more primitive breed of taoist war.

 

 

Sean.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Mal
updated

[spyrelx]

I just checked the Pit and there are 4 posts in it. All by Ron! Hilarious.

 

About your rules. I agree with the general concept but would hope that you're not rigid in enforcement.

 

Basically, I trust you're judgment Sean, so if you think something crosses the line and want to drop it in the Pit, I'm OK with that. I just want to say that as a contributor here I'm comfortable when people flame once in a while, so long as it's not excessive.

 

I mean, vigorous debate is good and sometimes people flame. Looking at my own posts, I remember replying "fuck you" to Ron once (he deserved it) and another time calling Dr. Lin a buffoon (and explaining why). I would have hated for those posts to have gone to the Pit.

 

Speaking of Ron, if you strictly adhere to your rules, I'm not sure a single post by Ron is going to get through (maybe not such a bad thing, but something to consider).

 

So bottom line, I support the rule and your judgment, I'd just suggest enforcing with a light touch.

 

Thanks.

[sean]

Thanks for the feedback spyrelx. And thank you for your trust. I will enforce with a light touch, but I also want this to be taken seriously.

 

With "Ron" gone now I think this won't be so much of an issue. He was basically the only one acting out against people. You said "Fuck you" to him in response to repeated harrassment. If this repeated harrassment had not been allowed, your "fuck you" would likely not have been provoked.

 

But I don't want anymore "fuck you". It's just not neccessary. Maybe it's exciting sometimes, it shakes things up. But it degrades the quality of communication here. Muddies the energy.

 

Listen to me like I've taken up samma vaca.

 

"Dr. Lin is a buffoon" is within reason, especially with an intelligent explanation of your viewpoint afterward. Trolling everyone who writes about Dr. Lin with "Dr. Lin is a buffoon" would not be. (obviously) But why not just write "Dr. Lin's material is disorganized quackery"? Just a thought.

 

Anyway, it's the obscene, prejucidical or inflammatory posts that I'm talking about. The posts that create a hostile environment where people are afraid to speak.

 

I always wanted this to be a relatively safe place for people to talk about deeper issues that come up through spiritual work. The sometimes sensitive issues that have you reaching for support. Elusive issues surrounding the many forms of sexual expression. Finespun gender role issues. Issues of emotional trauma and abuse.

 

The context for this type of communication is delicate and requires trust. This type of trust is chiselled away when harrassment is tolerated.

 

I learned some valuable lessons about this with "Ron". I basically ignored "Ron's" antics until they were turned on me. I usually consider myself good at putting myself in other's shoes but was near-sighted in this case for some reason. I think I wanted to be the "nice guy" here so bad I allowed a tyrant in the door with a forced smile and let him stomp all over the place. People were hurt in the process. I want to apologize to you, Lozen, Lezlie, Cam, Peter Falk triple dots (wherever he is) and anyone else here who has been personally insulted by Ron that I tolerated this for so long and only opened my eyes and put my foot down when, selfishly, the fire was turned on me and mine. In my defense I can only say that I think if "Ron" treated anyone here with the degree of contempt he has recently shown Lezlie and I, I believe I would have responded the same way I am now.

 

Moving on ...

Sean.

[Lozen]

I think I've been guilty of breaking these rules too. In the future, I will try to insult Goenka, Buddhism and the disbelief of evil in more appropriate ways.

[peter falk]

maybe we could restrict ourselves to a sort of yosemite sam brand of cussing. to wit:

 

-GREAT HORNY TOADS!

-ya long eared galoot!

-rackmsackmsickcrumkrckm

-i's hates that rabbit

 

and so on. to of course be followed with intelligent refutation.

[Gerard]

[Mal]

1. Deleting two of my recent posts, which were neither offensive nor inappropriate.

 

I can't recall doing that, did you have any further info? (if you are still around)

[Stigweard]

Tao Bums has turned into a social event, hence this time I will leave for good as I don't want to waste my time and energy with people who don't deserve it; however I will continue writing on my webpage whenever time allows.

LOL

 

It would be nice if the moderating team would fine tune their skills a bit more because in my opinion they are doing a rather poor job. Some examples:

 

1. Deleting two of my recent posts, which were neither offensive nor inappropriate.

 

2. Allowing subtle insults and trolling from certain members, who probably in real life are mere social misfits, sympathisers of James Randi or simply put forum trolls. They also pretend to be spiritual but are far from being that. It would be interesting to know who these people truly are are because as far as I know they haven't produced any literature or run a webpage or publicly known for their work regarding spiritual matters and actively helping humanity.

 

All the best to those who are true spiritual seekers.

 

Goodbye,

 

Gerard.

Serious accusations there -- we have a very strict no-delete policy that we adhere to. I am confident that if we checked the logs then your accusations would be proven unfounded.

 

As to the insult thing -- it's pretty much a fuzzy curvy line. We can't be there watching every single post and we rely alot on people making reports. As such alot of the borderline insults pass by our notice until something becomes really blatant.

 

I think it is quite ironic that, in your parting comments, your words drip with implied insults to the whole board. Perhaps you should reflect more on your own thoughts and attitudes then those of others.

 

Warm Regards

 

Stig

 

[Apech]

Just a word in support of the mod team. I think you've got it just about right. The people who get suspended seem to want this happen e.g. ~JK~.

 

TTBs seems to go through cycles where it gets very tetchy for a time and then goes back to normal. Some people seem to come her expecting it to be something it isn't - that is a bland calm place for elevated discussion. For me I like the arguments - if you follow the better ones then they really make you think hard about the subject. If this makes it a 'social event' or whatever well then so be it.

[Gerard]

LOL

 

Serious accusations there -- we have a very strict no-delete policy that we adhere to. I am confident that if we checked the logs then your accusations would be proven unfounded....

 

Stig,

 

What exactly do you want me to state with this regard? Giving more specific details of blatant trolling and the two posts of mine that I have been deleted. If they were deleted and a PM sent to me saying: listen, X post has been deleted for this reason. Then in this case I would understand and that's it...who cares...it's the lack of manners that bothers me.

 

Details:

 

1. I am pretty sure it was TaoMeow who deleted my post in the recent thread about cats.

 

2. No idea about who deleted my post in the IBS syndrome where I recommended the OP looking into liver qi stagnation, liver fire invading the spleen with resulting qi stagnation, damp-heat in large intestine, excess cold in spleen and spleen and kidney yang defiency. I told OP that the cause would be most likely overactive liver (typical of our current age and modern society) which brings a myriads of problems.

 

3. Trolling. I'd rather not give details of the forum trolls, but are all well-known in here.

 

I am not attacking the whole board.

 

Regards,

 

Gerard.

 

 

Edited: typo.

Edited September 22, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[三江源]

Hi there, just want to point out that when we post in someone's personal practice forum, they are able to delete our posts if they so choose. We all have a post-deletion button for all posts, in our pp forums.

[Marblehead]

Hi there, just want to point out that when we post in someone's personal practice forum, they are able to delete our posts if they so choose. We all have a post-deletion button for all posts, in our pp forums.

 

Yep. I found out about that the hard way.

 

Peace & Love!

[mjjbecker]

 

If you can't abide by this simple constructive guideline, create a rant in "The Pit", a new little Off Topic subforum for the more primitive breed of taoist war.

 

Sean.

 

I just went to the pit, and it says "You cannot start a topic". Why? Is the pit now purely a place to move 'inappropriate' threads?

 

I would actually like to discuss an issue and I would like it to be on a thread and in a place where a certain moderator won't delete it or interfere with it-simply because the certain moderator doesn't like what what is being said. Nothing slanderous or insulting, but:

 

"Why do you delete posts that you disagree with?"

 

When I did moderator and admin work on forums in the past, I never deleted posts just because I didn't like what someone wrote. Slander, insults and inappropriate language yes. Differences of opinion, no.

 

Personal practice section or not, censoring others simply because you don't like their opinion seems contrary to the whole purpose of being on a forum. If you can't handle a response, why not just stick to blogging and turn off the comments?

[Aetherous]

Yep. I found out about that the hard way.

 

If you're referring to my section, it was nothing personal. I deleted some of my own posts in there too. I like to clean up, so that it better represents quotes or ideas that I like.

 

Peace.

_/\_

[Marblehead]

If you're referring to my section, it was nothing personal. I deleted some of my own posts in there too. I like to clean up, so that it better represents quotes or ideas that I like.

 

Peace.

_/\_

 

Hehehe. You know, I can look back at that now and laugh at myself. Not only did I take it personally but I held a total misunderstanding of what was going on at the time.

 

I have been on other forums where the moderators would delete posts and not only would they not give a reason for the deletion but they would not even notify the member that they had deleted the post. I am no longer a member of any of those forums that are operated in such an unprofessional manner.

 

So anyhow, Scotty, what you are referring to caused me to think that this was happening on this forum as well. I didn't know you had delete option for your thread. I thought you had complained to a moderator and the moderator had deleted it. And that is why I became inactive for a few days when it happened.

 

I was trying to decide if I wanted to remain on a forum that did things like that. But then I had this uneasy feeling that my thoughts were no right so I PMed one of the moderators. I won't mention names but the mod will know who I am talking about.

 

He was very attentive, and grilled me for information so that he could make a response. Thanks to his patience and understanding he identified the probable cause and immediately as soon as I read his reply I felt so ashamed of myself. And this is one of the dangers of holding on to past experiences - it distorts our reality.

 

So I will say right up front here that I now understand what really happened and I am at peace with this now. Like I said, I even laughed when I read your post.

 

And I will also say that I think the mods are doing a wonderful job, especially at preventing the threads from becoming a means of personal attacks against other members.

 

Peace & Love!

[Stigweard]

The suggestion that Moderator's are deleting posts in the open forum is a serious issue. Please note that our Moderation Guidelines - The Tao Bums clearly states:

 

NOTE: Under no circumstance will a moderator completely delete a post. Members have the primary ability and right "to post." If the full contents of a post requires editing then full explanation why will be noted in the relevant post, but the post will remain. The only exception to this rule is for housekeeping purposes of deleting multiple posts and double threads. Otherwise deleting member's posts and threads is strictly prohibited.

 

Proof of this happening should be reported immediately.

 

Please try and keep in mind thought that, just like cat said, owners of their own personal practice forum have the power to make moderator's actions (deletions, editing, etc.) within their forum. So, and as we see above this has happened, you maybe falsely accusing Moderators for deletions.

[Gerard]

Proof of this happening should be reported immediately.

 

Please try and keep in mind thought that, just like cat said, owners of their own personal practice forum have the power to make moderator's actions (deletions, editing, etc.) within their forum. So, and as we see above this has happened, you maybe falsely accusing Moderators for deletions.

 

Yes, my comments were not posted in any of the personal practice forum. However, I am not loooking for retaliation or payback of any kind. Hence I won't really report my deleted posts. And please do not think I am making this up. I am not, OK?

 

I want to give an opportunity to the mod who acted this way, and I know exactly who this person is. I expect at least a PM sent to me saying sorry (nothing to do with the ego, it is to avoid bad karma on that mod).

 

All the best,

 

Gerard.

[Mal]

[Birch]

Oh hey Mal!

 

Do you mean:

 

- "New York City appartment-space porn", or

- "Spare-time-porn", or

- "Unbelievable-friendship-porn", or

- "Somewhat-aspirational-yet-not, career-porn"

 

As exemplified by

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKXInbR9giM

[Taomeow]

Yes, my comments were not posted in any of the personal practice forum. However, I am not loooking for retaliation or payback of any kind. Hence I won't really report my deleted posts. And please do not think I am making this up. I am not, OK?

 

I want to give an opportunity to the mod who acted this way, and I know exactly who this person is. I expect at least a PM sent to me saying sorry (nothing to do with the ego, it is to avoid bad karma on that mod).

 

All the best,

 

Gerard.

 

Wazzup with the red herring? I am very much intrigued.

 

I hereby solemnly declare that I have never deleted your posts, or anyone else's, from the main forum, with the exception of my own and "double post" clean-ups. Of course I delete with extreme prejudice whatever I choose to at Taomeow's Personal Practice forum, as Taomeow the moderator of Taomeow's Personal Practice forum. In my TTB mod capacity, I don't delete stuff. Moreover, I'm the one who's been consistently pushing for openness of mod actions, choosing public announcements of warnings or suspensions over PMs, basically opening myself to attacks in this manner but doing this out of a deep-seated aversion to secrecy in any power/control application for whatever purposes without the receiving end knowing who applies this power and why. This excludes me as the offender and leaves me and everyone else in a state of suspense. Whodidit?

[Gerard]

Wazzup with the red herring? I am very much intrigued.

 

I hereby solemnly declare that I have never deleted your posts...

 

I really appreciate your comment.

 

Karma shall run its course then. It's a pity really, I was expecting more guts and humility.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gerard.

[Mal]

Edited September 30, 2010 by Mal

[Marblehead]

It's a pity really, I was expecting more guts and humility.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gerard.

 

Okay. I confess. I did it. It was a mistake and I was too ashamed to admit it.

 

Now stop bitching and start posting again because you do have a lot of valuable thoughts to share with us.

 

(Note: I can't delete any posts, not even my own. I am a nobody. But it really saddens me to see a member leave a forum in anger.)

[mjjbecker]

[Mal]

Thanks m8t, no worries