Old Taoism Masters' Knowledge

[Mak_Tin_Si]

As requested from the moderator of TaoBum, I have moved to this forum : http://www.daoismworld.com right now.

 

So if you want to talk to me or ask me anything about Taoism, please feel free to go over to this forum and enjoy the new forum. New members for discussion are also welcomed.

 

http://www.daoismworld.com

 

Mak Tin Si

Edited January 8, 2009 by Mak_Tin_Si

[doc benway]

Lao-Zi is only a person who start to name Taoism - "Tao" but before him, Taoism the religion is already formed by many many people.

I think that most scholars of the Daoist canon would agree that "Laozi" was simply a name given for centuries or millenia of wisdom that ultimately was gathered together as Dao De Jing. It's highly unlikely that this work could have been written in one century, let alone by one person.

[Rolf]

Great. Where can one get these scriptures?

[ron7786]

Edited December 8, 2008 by ron7786

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Scriptures are not for you to GET but for you to find.

 

If you are able to read Chinese, you can find it when you have the luck. Find a Master, then you can learn it from the master even though it is in Chinese. I teach my english student all Taoism in chinese, they learn while they learn chinese from me too.

 

 

Great. Where can one get these scriptures?

[Rolf]

Scriptures are not for you to GET but for you to find.

 

If you are able to read Chinese, you can find it when you have the luck. Find a Master, then you can learn it from the master even though it is in Chinese. I teach my english student all Taoism in chinese, they learn while they learn chinese from me too.

 

I am interested in learning Chinese.

[ron7786]

...

Edited December 8, 2008 by ron7786

[Mak_Tin_Si]

No wonder you said something like "Taoism is not a Religion" in your post.

 

Good Luck in learning Chinese, there are much more to learn in Taoism with Chinese background. At least you need to know Chinese to do FU and mantras too. (before you say that they are not real or not taoism)

 

The best way is to get a friend who is Chinese to talk with you or a wife who is Chinese. haha!

 

 

 

 

So am I. I have a book for beginners but I havnt started studying it yet because Ive been too busy studying other books on chinese culture. Eventually I think it would be cool to be fluent in chinese so I could translate or teach. The language doesnt look that hard to learn to speak. But the writing system would be a bitch to learn for me I think.

[Spirit Ape]

Hi Mak,

 

Thankyou that was great stuff i have a question, do you know if Taoism has changed as it reached Lao Tzu or if Lao Tzu changed or somehow influenced it in a different way compared to before Lao Tzu?

 

regards

Spirit Ape

[YMWong]

LOL

 

Daoism cannot possibly be older than Lao Zi, let alone put the daoist hat on Wong Dai (Huang Di - the 'Yellow' Emperor) considering that even the term didn't exist at the time. There is simply NO WAY to know if those emperors of the old time really existed, let alone knowing about what they did.

 

It would be like claiming that Pizza was there 5000 years ago, because we believe they had tomatoes and some way of processing milk already at that time. Its' totally preposterous and simply stupid.

 

Without doubt chinese civilization is a very old one, and much of modern culture has some ancient origins - but that's all we can say.

 

Otherwise, by the same token, we should all believe that we are all the carnal brothers just because 10,000 years ago we might have had some common relatives. That would be a long stretch.

 

YM

Edited December 7, 2008 by YMWong

[Mak_Tin_Si]

No, taoism have not change when reached Lao-Zi much be Lao-Zi just add on a big part of stuff to Taoism. Lao-Zi is said to be the 72 FA-SUN (life) of Tai Sheung Lo Gwan (one of the 3 pure ones). This is true because if you know what is going on in Taoism god system, you shall know, but that is heaven confidential. (Tin Gei)

 

So we can say Lao-zi is the first one makes it famous, but lots of people did a lot of stuff before him too. Later on in the Chinese history, Li-Sai-Man the king also is a relative of Lao-Zi, so he really praise Lao-zi cause he know he is a relative of Lao-Zi. So when the king praise something you know that lao-zi will become famous of course. Everybody love it.

 

 

Hi Mak,

 

Thankyou that was great stuff i have a question, do you know if Taoism has changed as it reached Lao Tzu or if Lao Tzu changed or somehow influenced it in a different way compared to before Lao Tzu?

 

regards

Spirit Ape

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Maybe you haven't learned the Juk Yau Foh yet, or maybe you have not learned any scriptures or fu related to Fu-zi or Sun-nung yet. There is no way one can immitate their names. If you do have enough study in Taoism, you will never say so. Yes, you can say they do not call Taoism, but they are ancestors of Taoism, just that the religion already exsist and the knowledge of Taoism already exsist, we as students under their lineage now shall not forget what they have left for us to learn in the Taoism system.

 

LOL

 

Daoism cannot possibly be older than Lao Zi, let alone put the daoist hat on Wong Dai (Huang Di - the 'Yellow' Emperor) considering that even the term didn't exist at the time. There is simply NO WAY to know if those emperors of the old time really existed, let alone knowing about what they did.

 

It would be like claiming that Pizza was there 5000 years ago, because we believe they had tomatoes and some way of processing milk already at that time. Its' totally preposterous and simply stupid.

 

Without doubt chinese civilization is a very old one, and much of modern culture has some ancient origins - but that's all we can say.

 

Otherwise, by the same token, we should all believe that we are all the carnal brothers just because 10,000 years ago we might have had some common relatives. That would be a long stretch.

 

YM

[YMWong]

Maybe you haven't learned the Juk Yau Foh yet, or maybe you have not learned any scriptures or fu related to Fu-zi or Sun-nung yet. There is no way one can immitate their names. If you do have enough study in Taoism, you will never say so. Yes, you can say they do not call Taoism, but they are ancestors of Taoism, just that the religion already exsist and the knowledge of Taoism already exsist, we as students under their lineage now shall not forget what they have left for us to learn in the Taoism system.

 

I am afraid that if you want to convince people you'd have to bring more than just "that's the way it is because I say so". For a scripture to be ascribed to Fu Xi or Shen Nung it doesn't mean anything, totally anything.

As a matter of fact, the Daoist Canon is full of Scriptures with fake information and claiming authorships that have been proven forged.

 

They are the ancestors of much of chinese culture, but then I am sure that if you go back to neanderthal you'll find one of your own ancestors but how much of what you are, of what you know derives from him ?

Very little, I think, and in any case there is no way for you to know or to prove it.

 

Daoism is an experiential tradition.

In this respect, as a pratictioner you may have (hopefully) esperienced some of what you are talking about. But experience is a very personal thing and if you want to talk about Daoist history here, and want to be listened, I suggest you give (historical) references to your thesis.

If what you propose comes only from your personal experience than simply say so, and people will take that info for what it is instead of (wrongly) believing you are talking history.

 

Best

 

YM