Thread about Nothing

[RongzomFan]

lol

Edited January 3, 2010 by alwayson

[Pero]

You said I should not be speaking about "secret practices"

 

First of all the information is already available in a book endorsed by the Dalai Lama and partially written by him (The Dalai Lamas Secret Temple). I found this book at many places in my town, inlcuding libraries and bookstores. So the Dalai Lama has let much of this "secret" information out there. And of course there is "Heart Drops of Dharmakaya" and other texts which I have mentioned in this thread

 

 

Look, if you didn't receive such things from a teacher but only got knowledge from a book and you really get what you're doing you should be a superior practitioner meaning you have something like a recollection of a past life or something. Like you just read a certain sentence and you wake up. But such people are rare, to the extent that they basically don't exist now. If you did receive this from a teacher and go around telling about it, you are breaking your samaya.

The Dalai Lama is considered a great master, so I'll trust his judgement. You however are probably not.

And I'm pretty sure the Dalai Lama didn't put it in the book thinking that people should practice. You can watch brain surgery on TV too, doesn't mean you should actually go and try it yourself without being trained first.

 

So from my POV, three things are possible. One, you're a superior practitioner. Two, you're just confused like the rest of us and are playing games with a practice. And three, you received teachings from a master and are now breaking your samaya. Maybe I'm rude or dogmatic or whatever, but really none of these things are good for you (I mean, unless you're a superior practitioner haha).

If you are really interested in it, you'll find a teacher and follow his instructions as best you can. Here's a list of Tibetan Buddhist teachers, not all of them teach Dzogchen though.

 

Anyway, you're free to do whatever you want, beneficial or harmful. I won't say anything more.

If I hurt your feelings or something, I'm sorry.

[Xienkula1]

And three, you received teachings from a master and are now breaking your samaya. Maybe I'm rude or dogmatic or whatever, but really none of these things are good for you (I mean, unless you're a superior practitioner haha).

 

If he recieved teachings from a teacher, forgive my ignorance, but it's really not clear to me how he is breaking a samaya by referring people to available resources on a topic of interest that if they had the inclination, they could find just as easily. If he were teaching others, giving empowerments, or handing out photocopies of the teachings he received from his teacher then it would be clear. However, it does seem over the top to say, here do this dzogchen practice and you'll experience such and such, given that dzogchen does traditionally require an experienced teacher for obvious reasons.

[Apech]

[rex]

Its "ngakpa" and it means a lay yogi.

Thanks for that. 'Ngakpa' and 'nangpa' sound so similar but its 'nangpa' (I often get the spellings mixed up). There's this reference to Nangpas as 'insiders' on the Rigpa Wiki:

 

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Nangpa

 

Tibetan Buddhism is a 'broad church' and gradualist school.

That it is! It also has it's sudden as opposed to gradualist elements too.

[Apech]

Thanks for that. 'Ngakpa' and 'nangpa' sound so similar but its 'nangpa' (I often get the spellings mixed up). There's this reference to Nangpas as 'insiders' on the Rigpa Wiki:

 

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Nangpa

 

That it is! It also has it's sudden as opposed to gradualist elements too.

 

 

Ok. But nangpa means Buddhist doesn't it?

[rex]

Ok. But nangpa means Buddhist doesn't it?

Nangpa is a Tibetan subtlety - well yes it means Buddhist but its use implies a science of mind validated through direct experience rather than blind acceptance of Sutras and Tantras. That this science of mind accords with the Sutras and Tantras only validates Buddhism even more!

 

It also has another sense of existing within a certain boundary so when it comes to sectarianism it can be used to identify 'outsiders'.

[Apech]

Nangpa is a Tibetan subtlety - well yes it means Buddhist but its use implies a science of mind validated through direct experience rather than blind acceptance of Sutras and Tantras. That this science of mind accords with the Sutras and Tantras only validates Buddhism even more!

 

It also has another sense of existing within a certain boundary so when it comes to sectarianism it can be used to identify 'outsiders'.

 

 

Interesting! Thanks.

[RongzomFan]

lol

Edited January 3, 2010 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

lol

Edited January 3, 2010 by alwayson

[ralis]

I called Snow Lion yesterday and the Yeshe Lama text is available. Comes with a hefty price of 85.00. The text is restricted. One needs to fill out an application to receive it.

 

ralis

[Pero]

What are the restrictions?

[ralis]

One must receive a live transmission from a lineage lama. That date and time is included on the application. This restricted business is still a throwback to Tibetan monastic authoritarianism. Apparently these practices were never taught openly and only to a very few. These practices are ones birthright and do not belong to some hierarchy.

 

ralis

[Pero]

I don't agree with that, but anyway, the transmission of the whole text or of what?

And hey, is this somewhere on their webpage? I couldn't find it.

[ralis]

Which part do you not agree with?

 

ralis

[Pero]

Which part do you not agree with?

 

With this:

 

This restricted business is still a throwback to Tibetan monastic authoritarianism. These practices are ones birthright and do not belong to some hierarchy.

[Pero]

Anyway, I've found it now. Don't know why I didn't just use the search function before.

[RongzomFan]

lol

Edited January 3, 2010 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

lol

Edited January 3, 2010 by alwayson

[Pero]

Edited January 12, 2009 by Pero

[Apech]

Pero,

 

who is Jax???

[Pero]

Its "ngakpa" and it means a lay yogi. In other words someone who practices tantra but is not ordained. They are often married and may work and live 'normal' lives. However they are either Buddhists or Bon and uphold the refuge precepts (not killing, lying, stealing and so on) and will uphold samaya vows (which as I pointed out above are not absolute and can be 'repaired' through confession to a lama or by retaking them.)

 

I don't think this is entirely correct. By that definition, any Tibetan Buddhist that is not a monk would be a ngakpa. Ngakpas have their own vows (very strict if I remember right). Also in general I had the impression that ngakpas are considered more like sorcerers, for controlling weather and stuff.

 

In its early history there was a debate between a famous lama (possibly Sakhya Pandita) and a Ch'an practitioner as to whether to adopt a Zen like approach. It was decided that a broad and gradual approach was more appropriate because it would help more people by offering a range of styles of teachings to suit different types of personality and mentalities.

 

I think it was Kamalshila, who taught gradual sutra, while Hashang taught non-gradual sutra. I've heard that Tibetans in general like things more gradual, so Kamalshila "won".

 

Pero,

 

who is Jax???

 

Oh someone from Yahoo groups. His real name (I guess) is Jackson Peterson or something like that.

[Apech]

I don't think this is entirely correct. By that definition, any Tibetan Buddhist that is not a monk would be a ngakpa. Ngakpas have their own vows (very strict if I remember right). Also in general I had the impression that ngakpas are considered more like sorcerers, for controlling weather and stuff.

 

 

 

You may be right Pero - however I think it is used in the way I suggested - in fact here is an example:

 

http://karmalhundup.org/

 

where ngakpa = 'lay yogin'

 

in fact I used to have a teacher who was called ngakpa by his lama (who was kagyu+sakhya) and was a lay teacher. Not just a Buddhist but a yogin or tantra practioner of course.

[Pero]

Well maybe there are different kinds of ngagpas. I remember reading a thread on E-Sangha where ngagpas were in contrast with yogis and so not the same at all. Like for changing the weather if they have some realization they

both can do it, but go about it in different ways.

[Apech]

Well maybe there are different kinds of ngagpas. I remember reading a thread on E-Sangha where ngagpas were in contrast with yogis and so not the same at all. Like for changing the weather if they have some realization they

both can do it, but go about it in different ways.

 

 

I wish someone would change the weather where I am !