Mr. Mak lineage

[YMWong]

I have been told you are a student of this fellow or belonged to the group

 

http://hk.geocities.com/loktooyatsin/myhistory.htm

 

Is that right ?

 

YM

[Mak_Tin_Si]

No. Sorry, you are wrong. I wonder why you expect me to be a luk yum student.

I just made myself clear enough that I am NOT a luk yum student and I learn from a sifu in China who is an immortal in the mountain, plus I learn from the grandmasters immortals. If you want to know more you can go to my website and look at the lineage of my branch.

 

Are you a student of his branch? Or do you know this guy on the url you posted?

 

 

 

I have been told you are a student of this fellow or belonged to the group

 

http://hk.geocities.com/loktooyatsin/myhistory.htm

 

Is that right ?

 

YM

Edited December 8, 2008 by Mak_Tin_Si

[YMWong]

No. Sorry, you are wrong.

 

Well, they even say that your 'lineage name' (FA) comes from there.

Is that also not true ?

 

And if so where does it come from apart your (newly invented) lineage poem of your (newly invented) sect ?

 

YM

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Huh?

 

The lineage name of FA is very common in Taoism, how come it is a Luk Yam registered or tradmark name?

what is luk yam's lineage poem ?

 

 

Well, they even say that your 'lineage name' (FA) comes from there.

Is that also not true ?

 

And if so where does it come from apart your (newly invented) lineage poem of your (newly invented) sect ?

 

YM

[YMWong]

The lineage name of FA is very common in Taoism, how come it is a Luk Yam registered or tradmark name?

what is luk yam's lineage poem ?

 

As usual, you never respond to precise questions that may endanger your commercial endevour here.

You seem to enjoy talking but refrain from discussing.

 

Of course 'fa' is common but my question was:

 

Well, they even say that your 'lineage name' (FA) comes from there.

Is that also not true ?

 

And if so where does it come from apart your (newly invented) lineage poem of your (newly invented) sect ?

Thanks

 

YM

Edited December 8, 2008 by YMWong

[Mak_Tin_Si]

I am sorry maybe you have mistaken or they have mistaken from someone else. I am not from that lineage.

 

1. My name start with FA is not from that branch. So replying your first question, yes, it is not true.

 

2. The name FA came from my sifu in China who accept me in his branch. He is the one who taught me before I am learning from the ascended masters. I was also learning under Maau Shan Sheung Ching Sect before but never learned luk yam in my life. I told you that already right? My sifu in China is from Dragon Tiger Mountain, Tin Si Fu sect, but not Zhen Zi Mung Wai sect in Dragon-Tiger Mountain. So it is not the kind that this fat guy have in the web you post. There are many sect in Dragon-Tiger Mountain, not only Zhen Zi. My sifu branch is a sect that have relationship with Maau Shaan Sheung Ching.

 

Luk Yam Sin Si is also in our worhsipping plate too, but we are not Fuk Ying Goon. Luk yam Sin Si, Dai Hing Wai Ling Sin Si are also in Tin Si Fu's plate.

 

 

Precise enough?

 

 

 

As usual, you never respond to precise questions that may endanger your commercial endevour here.

You seem to enjoy talking but refrain from discussing.

 

Of course 'fa' is common but my question was:

 

Well, they even say that your 'lineage name' (FA) comes from there.

Is that also not true ?

 

And if so where does it come from apart your (newly invented) lineage poem of your (newly invented) sect ?

Thanks

 

YM

[YMWong]

I am sorry maybe you have mistaken or they have mistaken from someone else. I am not from that lineage.

 

Then I guess they might confuse you with somebody else, I'll ask again.

Were you in Kowloon or Hong Kong side ?

 

And thanks for the replies !

 

YM

[Mak_Tin_Si]

I am in Canada, not kowloon or hongkong, haha!

 

If you come to Canada, welcome to our temple and you can see our altar, that then will make everything clear for you maybe. No words are better than thousand of paragraphs.

 

 

 

Then I guess they might confuse you with somebody else, I'll ask again.

Were you in Kowloon or Hong Kong side ?

 

And thanks for the replies !

 

YM

[YMWong]

I am in Canada, not kowloon or hongkong, haha!

 

If you come to Canada, welcome to our temple and you can see our altar, that then will make everything clear for you maybe. No words are better than thousand of paragraphs.

 

I said 'were' i.e. before moving to Canada.

 

No problem in any case and good luck for your business there

 

YM

[Taomeow]

My sifu branch is a sect that have relationship with Maau Shaan Sheung Ching.

 

I knew it! although your Cantonese-Pinyin rendition of names I only know in Mandarin-Pinyin baffled me on many an occasion.

 

Well, you have to forgive the less-than-warm welcome you get here from some of the proponents of the most influential sect of Tao of the Mouth. They don't like to encounter pragmatic taoism, they think taoism is what you believe in, or don't believe in, and they practice taoism by thinking or talking about it. Doing things the taoist way is not taoism for them. Uh-uh. You have to read researchers and scriptures to be a Tao of the Mouth taoist in good standing. The new and improved Tao of the Mouth taoism has rid itself of Hetu, Luoshu, I Ching, bagua, Wuxing, internal and external alchemy, astrology, numerology, divination, talismanic sorcery, herbology, ancestor worship, offerings to the gods, spirit invocations, direct transmissions, and the rest of this "barbaric nonsense." Tao of the Mouth taoists do just fine "believing" in Laozi, and whatever is not covered by the Tao Te Ching plus maybe a scripture or two they favor is to be found in the works of "researchers" (outsiders) of taoism. As soon as you start practicing taoism you're already suspect no matter what you practice. See, their researchers don't practice anything, they only research, and then "believe" or "don't believe" in this and that. So you are supposed to be like them too, and if you're not... Be forewarned!

[YMWong]

[Mak_Tin_Si]

So what sect and branch are you in and what is your lineage name? You know about me, so now it is your turn to introduce yourself to me though. I have all my info in the website, now can I know more about you?

 

Are you a Zhen Yi student that do Da Jai for people? (funeral stuff) or those that learn taoism magic like those FU and mantras in Dragon-Tiger-Mountain?

 

Also, what do you practise mainly in your branch ? For how long?

 

 

I said 'were' i.e. before moving to Canada.

 

No problem in any case and good luck for your business there

 

YM

[YMWong]

I am just an amateur and have been on Daoist Studies for about 30 years now.

I think I already told u my link to Zhengyi in another post, I am also a disciple in another two lines (Benshan Pai and Xi Pai) and have studied with various others lineages, but not as disciple, in China and Taiwan.

Daoism is not my profession i.e. I don't make money or live on it.

 

YM 倒涵散人

Edited December 9, 2008 by YMWong

[Mak_Tin_Si]

What is BenShan Pai and Xi Pai in Chinese? I cannot make out the names...???

 

So what do you learn from your Zheng Yi branch? I heard people in HK also learn NAM MOR with Zhen Yi in HK, like funeral stuff, do you do funerals for people? What is your full lineage name in Zhen Yi?

 

Oh, I am sure no one can make money with Taoism. Even me. I do not make money with Taoism too because if you do.. haha, BIG BIG PROBLEM!!! EVIL TAOIST are those that make money with Taoism. Who dare to make money with Taoism is really BAAAAAAD!!

 

 

 

I am just an amateur and have been on Daoist Studies for about 30 years now.

I think I already told u my link to Zhengyi in another post, I am also a disciple in another two lines (Benshan Pai and Xi Pai) and have studied with various others lineages, but not as disciple, in China and Taiwan.

Daoism is not my profession i.e. I don't make money or live on it.

 

YM 倒涵散人

[YMWong]

What is BenShan Pai and Xi Pai in Chinese? I cannot make out the names...???

 

本山派

西派

 

So what do you learn from your Zheng Yi branch? I heard people in HK also learn NAM MOR with Zhen Yi in HK, like funeral stuff, do you do funerals for people? What is your full lineage name in Zhen Yi?

 

大涵

I did not study Zhengyi in HK, if you saw the talisman pic I posted in your other thread you might (should) have recognized my line

 

Oh, I am sure no one can make money with Taoism. Even me. I do not make money with Taoism too because if you do.. haha, BIG BIG PROBLEM!!! EVIL TAOIST are those that make money with Taoism. Who dare to make money with Taoism is really BAAAAAAD!!

 

Indeed, there is a curse for this sort of things

But, you know, "making money" means different things to different people: what for you is may be "just making a living" others may consider "living in luxury" ...

 

 

YM

[Xienkula1]

本山派

西派

大涵

I did not study Zhengyi in HK, if you saw the talisman pic I posted in your other thread you might (should) have recognized my line

Indeed, there is a curse for this sort of things

But, you know, "making money" means different things to different people: what for you is may be "just making a living" others may consider "living in luxury" ...

 

 

YM

 

Interesting. In a Hindu tradition I am aware of there is a curse placed in the scripture, which is, if you make this your meal ticket or livelihood rather than the expression of your purest devotion, there is a curse placed upon you and that is whenever you need this tool to work for you the most, it will become totally useless. This made me think about charging money for the teachings I learned(i had been instructed by my teacher that it was wrong not to charge money and that you should charge a lot, but she had a lot of problems), and I wondered if what I was doing was wrong so I charged a lot less than she suggested. I asked the Swami, and he said he could not make a judgment about what others were doing in that regard, and that this applies to this scripture in particular. It still made me wonder if other systems have this principle and it seems YM you have pointed to this. Please share what else you may know about this.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Xienkula1

[Mak_Tin_Si]

These curse are there and set by grandmasters in the old days. Just like how I said the 3 rules in taoism which is actualy can be viewed as a curse also. Easy to set but you need alot of stuff to ba able to set it in the religion of course.

 

In Taoism, we cannot use this to earn any money, so that is why all money earned are donate back to the temple, that is why temple always talk about donations and not fees. donations are only for the temple to run, the people who work for it do not get any.

 

Interesting. In a Hindu tradition I am aware of there is a curse placed in the scripture, which is, if you make this your meal ticket or livelihood rather than the expression of your purest devotion, there is a curse placed upon you and that is whenever you need this tool to work for you the most, it will become totally useless. This made me think about charging money for the teachings I learned(i had been instructed by my teacher that it was wrong not to charge money and that you should charge a lot, but she had a lot of problems), and I wondered if what I was doing was wrong so I charged a lot less than she suggested. I asked the Swami, and he said he could not make a judgment about what others were doing in that regard, and that this applies to this scripture in particular. It still made me wonder if other systems have this principle and it seems YM you have pointed to this. Please share what else you may know about this.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Good, I thought that pic was posted from elsewhere on the web, cuz I saw it before too in some website.

 

For anyone hosting a temple, no earning money with taoism means really NOTHING can be yours. all the money recieved in temple must go back to the temple for the temple to run only. The people who work in there get nothing. So we cannot even make a living with it. Sorry to let you dissappointed. haha! That is why most poeple that work full tiem for the time must go CHUT GA, so they sacrify their whole life in there. Otherwise, a host like me have to host the temple and also support myself with another job. (I do videography for people as living) The temple is just a place for me to train and also help others. Which is why I say I do not make a living or even earn any money from the temple.

 

So no earning money with taoism really means 0, NOTHING, NONE. No matter you make a living or luxury, it is still against the rule.

 

People who charge money for their taoism stuff usually have to donate them all out to elsewhere and not keep the money because it just ruin your whole trianing. It is also a way to sacrify yourself to the public to help the others in that way.

 

 

But, you know, "making money" means different things to different people: what for you is may be "just making a living" others may consider "living in luxury" ...

 

 

YM

[YMWong]

Interesting. In a Hindu tradition I am aware of there is a curse placed in the scripture, which is, if you make this your meal ticket or livelihood rather than the expression of your purest devotion, there is a curse placed upon you and that is whenever you need this tool to work for you the most, it will become totally useless. This made me think about charging money for the teachings I learned(i had been instructed by my teacher that it was wrong not to charge money and that you should charge a lot, but she had a lot of problems), and I wondered if what I was doing was wrong so I charged a lot less than she suggested. I asked the Swami, and he said he could not make a judgment about what others were doing in that regard, and that this applies to this scripture in particular. It still made me wonder if other systems have this principle and it seems YM you have pointed to this. Please share what else you may know about this.

 

Different schools have created different set of rules, but those are really mainly for the beginners who have not understood the rule of Heaven - and for the general population interested in 'daoism' of course.

And the rule of Heaven is actually like the rule of Earth: for every action there is an equal and contrary reaction: in chinese this is called 感應 'ganying'.

If Heaven bless you with a Transmission and you use it to make money, then you 'owe' and you're destined to pay somehow - so expect a reaction. It is ok to make a living out of it, but as I said it is hard to avoid falling into making a 'good living' so most people choose to refrain totally from the risk.

 

YM

[wudangquan]

This reminds me of one of my most vivid out of body experiences with cultivation . . .

 

It was years ago, when I was still in America (haven't been back in 9 years).

 

I was sitting in a chair in my apartment, thinking about charging money for something I had been taught for free, and thinking about exploiting that to make - really a lot of money . . .

 

In an instant I was in another dimension. A sort of void, which was all black, except I could see myself.

 

Far off in the distance I saw another point in the void, and it grew larger and larger.

 

As it got closer and closer to me I could see that it was a small rectangular box. Decorated in Cloissone or covered in silk, maybe.

 

Inside were two snakes. One looked like a cobra, and one looked like a copperhead snake.

 

The box floated up to me at chest level, and the two snakes bit me. One on each side of my chest.

 

I suddenly felt the most intense pain I had ever felt grip my entire body through multiple dimensions (of my body).

 

It was so painful that I couldn't bear it. I've experienced serious trauma and physical pain before but this was the worst and most terrible thing I had ever felt.

 

I fell down and crumpled into a fetal position in that void dimension waiting to die . . . .

 

As I felt the poison rushing through me, and permeating layer after layer of my body I suddenly realized what was going on.

 

I had to eliminate that evil thought.

 

I tried, and it didn't work.

 

I found that changing my mind and just "deciding" not to do it was not enough.

 

I had to purge the evil notion from every horizontal layer and every vertical dimension of my body.

 

As I purged one layer, I felt a corresponding improvement.

 

And on and on - literally for hours. Tens of hours or hundreds of hours or thousands of hours.

 

Until finally I had completely eliminated that evil notion.

 

And then I came back to this reality, and was in the same place, at the same moment as when it all began.

 

. . . . . .

 

It's worth mentioning that I have taken a vow to receive immediate retribution in this life (in order to succeed in cultivation in this life) - but . . . Yeah. You can sell a product. You can sell your time if you think it's ok. You can sell this or that, but you should be very careful about selling "cultivation" - however you understand that to be.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

I think you have got something dirty in you that time instead of breaking any rules of heaven. The snake shows that you might have got some people cursing on you though. If you see it later on again, that means you better get some cleaning done.

 

 

This reminds me of one of my most vivid out of body experiences with cultivation . . .

 

It was years ago, when I was still in America (haven't been back in 9 years).

 

I was sitting in a chair in my apartment, thinking about charging money for something I had been taught for free, and thinking about exploiting that to make - really a lot of money . . .

 

In an instant I was in another dimension. A sort of void, which was all black, except I could see myself.

 

Far off in the distance I saw another point in the void, and it grew larger and larger.

 

As it got closer and closer to me I could see that it was a small rectangular box. Decorated in Cloissone or covered in silk, maybe.

 

Inside were two snakes. One looked like a cobra, and one looked like a copperhead snake.

 

The box floated up to me at chest level, and the two snakes bit me. One on each side of my chest.

 

I suddenly felt the most intense pain I had ever felt grip my entire body through multiple dimensions (of my body).

 

It was so painful that I couldn't bear it. I've experienced serious trauma and physical pain before but this was the worst and most terrible thing I had ever felt.

 

I fell down and crumpled into a fetal position in that void dimension waiting to die . . . .

 

As I felt the poison rushing through me, and permeating layer after layer of my body I suddenly realized what was going on.

 

I had to eliminate that evil thought.

 

I tried, and it didn't work.

 

I found that changing my mind and just "deciding" not to do it was not enough.

 

I had to purge the evil notion from every horizontal layer and every vertical dimension of my body.

 

As I purged one layer, I felt a corresponding improvement.

 

And on and on - literally for hours. Tens of hours or hundreds of hours or thousands of hours.

 

Until finally I had completely eliminated that evil notion.

 

And then I came back to this reality, and was in the same place, at the same moment as when it all began.

 

. . . . . .

 

It's worth mentioning that I have taken a vow to receive immediate retribution in this life (in order to succeed in cultivation in this life) - but . . . Yeah. You can sell a product. You can sell your time if you think it's ok. You can sell this or that, but you should be very careful about selling "cultivation" - however you understand that to be.

[wudangquan]

Mr. Mak,

 

I didn't describe what I was thinking of doing in full detail because it would cause some trouble for people reading, but . . . It was more a case of getting something dirty (filthy) inside of me - quite right.

 

It was more a case of an attachment I had attracting something nasty and that disgusting thing trying to kill my spirit and get into niwan.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Did you get rid of that yet?

 

Snakes are commonly used in evil magic and evil fu. Just like in the system of some lineage, they do practies FU with evil snakes, they are for killing or making you crazy in instant. I do have done some cases on these and they are really threatening when the case get too long. I also know someone who have these people using a snake fu and curse on them and this old person died in 2-3months. With cancer and shingles.

 

 

 

Mr. Mak,

 

I didn't describe what I was thinking of doing in full detail because it would cause some trouble for people reading, but . . . It was more a case of getting something dirty (filthy) inside of me - quite right.

 

It was more a case of an attachment I had attracting something nasty and that disgusting thing trying to kill my spirit and get into niwan.

[松永道]

Well, you have to forgive the less-than-warm welcome you get here from some of the proponents of the most influential sect of Tao of the Mouth. They don't like to encounter pragmatic taoism, they think taoism is what you believe in, or don't believe in, and they practice taoism by thinking or talking about it. Doing things the taoist way is not taoism for them. Uh-uh. You have to read researchers and scriptures to be a Tao of the Mouth taoist in good standing. The new and improved Tao of the Mouth taoism has rid itself of Hetu, Luoshu, I Ching, bagua, Wuxing, internal and external alchemy, astrology, numerology, divination, talismanic sorcery, herbology, ancestor worship, offerings to the gods, spirit invocations, direct transmissions, and the rest of this "barbaric nonsense." Tao of the Mouth taoists do just fine "believing" in Laozi, and whatever is not covered by the Tao Te Ching plus maybe a scripture or two they favor is to be found in the works of "researchers" (outsiders) of taoism. As soon as you start practicing taoism you're already suspect no matter what you practice. See, their researchers don't practice anything, they only research, and then "believe" or "don't believe" in this and that. So you are supposed to be like them too, and if you're not... Be forewarned!

 

Wow, that's a pretty elitist statement.

 

Daoism is to Dao as Christianity is to God.

 

I know another "Tao of the Mouth," you find it in some Daoguans in China. No cultivation. No substance. But many rituals to make money. Honestly. People who have never heard of the Dao live it better than these priests.

 

What I see happening in the west resembles Luther's Protestant Reformation. Vitality over experience. This is the wood phase of a new life cycle. Would you see the doctrines, dogmas, and traditions, like water, extinguish the emerging spark? Too soon. Let it grow. Traditions are valuable once sought, not imposed.

[Ormus]

Does someone undersstand what is actual Maks lineage?

 

Ormus