Immortality

[seadog]

I hope someone can see the way, and follow it......

 

In reality, we can show the way and the secret, but most will never have eyes to see or the wisdom to understand...

 

Cultivating both True Nature and Life Force Together

 

True Nature means Congenital Shen, and Life Force means Qi. Originally, Congenital Shen and Primeval Qi are one, in a state of union, without any division. When people come into being, which means to be in an acquired stage, Congenital Shen settles in the heart sphere, giving rise to Congenital Nature. Then the Eighth Cognitive Shen will come to attach to Congenital Nature, surrounding it completely and the Cognitive Shen family will gradually develop to its full state. Primeval Qi takes place in the kidney sphere, giving rise to Jing, which refers to Life Force.

 

To sail against the current of life, pursuers of Tao need to bring Congenital Shen and Primeval Qi back into the former state of union.

Thank you for this.

Perhaps you could answer these questions that I have been wondering about.

By what means do you re introduce the fire to the water?

How much does the heart -kidney axis depend largely on our pre-heaven endowment?

Is a intermediate needed for the successful union of fire and water I.e Earth,wood or metal?

[Trash Filter]

so you don't want to search but if someone else does the work, you want to profit as well huh

 

Mantis don't be so immature. If I really knew such method in entirety, I would share.

 

Realistically however some people need wake up call, if they are really serious about this. Otherwise, of course, it is fun just to talk about. My point, you are not going to find physical immortality method in mainstream literature. Think about it. And you will have no hope in hell becoming physically immortal by circulating miniature droplets of chi and simply not ejaculating. To compound the difficulties further, such advanced chi knowledge cannot be learnt simply from a book.

[minkus]

http://www.meditationexpert.com/meditation...ual_tantra.html

 

Everyone should read this article.

[Taiji Bum]

That is just not true in every case. What about Baal Shem Tov who taught of the Goodness of all Gods creation and its pleasures in their correct place and Opposed Isaac Luria and His Asceticism. He peformed just as many Miricales as Isaac.

The orthodox Jewish law that Besht followed was one where his sexual relations with his wife were severly restricted to one or two weeks only and ALL the miracle working kabbalists were very "orthodox". There is more to Jewish law and sexual relations than just no sex while she is bleeding. There are a host of things such as the Mikvah that had to be observed. Although when she was "clean" it is his duty to do his husbandly duties whenever she wants and especially on the sabbath.

 

The story of the 4 who went to Pardes actually says you HAVE to be a homemaker to have the requisite balance to ascend to Beriah as does the Holy Grail story. But both also suggest long periods of abstinence.

[Ya Mu]

I hope someone can see the way, and follow it......

In reality, we can show the way and the secret, but most will never have eyes to see or the wisdom to understand...

So True and actually frustrating.

 

To compound the difficulties further, such advanced chi knowledge cannot be learnt simply from a book.

I really wonder about those that actually think they can learn advanced qigong without a teacher.

 

A famous Taoist saying is " When fire and water intermixed and have a intercourse , you never get old" (水火交,永不老)

 

Exactly! Although I don't know about the word "never" yet.

[Taiji Bum]

I really wonder about those that actually think they can learn advanced qigong without a teacher.

Thats what all teachers say especially if they have something to sell. I bet your a teacher with something to sell, huh? Nothing wrong with that, just asking.

[mantis]

Mantis don't be so immature. If I really knew such method in entirety, I would share.

 

Realistically however some people need wake up call, if they are really serious about this. Otherwise, of course, it is fun just to talk about. My point, you are not going to find physical immortality method in mainstream literature. Think about it. And you will have no hope in hell becoming physically immortal by circulating miniature droplets of chi and simply not ejaculating. To compound the difficulties further, such advanced chi knowledge cannot be learnt simply from a book.

 

maybe this is why you do not know

 

[Ya Mu]

QUOTE(dao zhen @ Dec 11 2008, 08:22 PM) *

I hope someone can see the way, and follow it......

In reality, we can show the way and the secret, but most will never have eyes to see or the wisdom to understand...

 

 

Thats what all teachers say especially if they have something to sell. I bet your a teacher with something to sell, huh? Nothing wrong with that, just asking.

 

The above quote applies.

One can lead a horse, even a 1000 of them to water but that certainly doesn't mean that they will drink. But it is the 1001st horse that does drink that can make one's heart glad.

When a teacher publishes a book, they hope that it is enough information to see if it resonates with a person's energy body. If it is, then that person can be open to seek the full teachings.

Yes, It is my experience is that anyone who believes they can learn advanced qigong from a book has never found a real teacher - yet. Until one can experience Higher Vibrational energetics they don't know what they are. Real easy to say all sorts of things about what one reads, but it is the self-evident things that are real. So all of us could talk about this for 1000 years and read a 1000 books and be no better for it in terms of energy cultivation. It is meeting a teacher who can project these energies and open us to them that makes the big difference; then our follow up with dedicated practice.

[Aetherous]

I don't think teachers are needed...just a good emptiness meditation (which can be found in many books).

[dao zhen]

Thank you for this.

Perhaps you could answer these questions that I have been wondering about.

By what means do you re introduce the fire to the water?

How much does the heart -kidney axis depend largely on our pre-heaven endowment?

Is a intermediate needed for the successful union of fire and water I.e Earth,wood or metal?

 

Four Emblematic Symbols

 

Also called the Four Symbols. In the I Ching they are referred to as the elements of wood, fire, metal, and water. In the Yin-Yang theory system they are refered to as Blue Dragon, White Tiger, Red Bird, and Black Tortoise, which symbolize the liver, lung, heart and kidney; or east, west, south, and north; or blue, white, red, and black; or eyes, nose, tongue, and ears respectively.

 

In Internal Alchemy Practice, practitioners should gaze inwardly, breath evenly and smoothly through their nose, keep the mouth closed with their tongue naturally raised against the upper palate, and concentrate their hearing inside themselves rather than outside. Following this course, people can reach the phase where the one True Heart can see, can breath, can hear, and so on in an undifferentiated whole, free of any difference and artificiality.

 

In general, the first steps to take are to begin the process of - Inward Gazing -

 

Then begin the process of - Inward Listening -

 

We may understand that in our life, the eyes and ears play a very important role, and in the course of practice these "powers" also play a very important role.

 

Next you may begin to "combine" with the breathing.....

 

First it is the Acquired breath or the breath that is from the action of the lungs and nose........

 

Later the Congenital Breath will come on the scene......

 

It is all a natural course......

 

You take action in the first stages, but later must let nature take its own development course.......

 

Really, without a teacher, it is almost impossible to make real progress.....

 

There is a system of hand postures and mudras you can use with special "deployment" of mind-will that very quickly open the channels, and develop the Qi in a specific course.....

 

Begin on your own to still the mind, and lessen desires........

 

Become quiet, and clean....

 

Pure.....

 

This is a good starting place.......

 

Sit at the time between 23:00 - 1:00 -

begin in the first stages to face south

 

Sit in the morning at the times of 5:00 - 7:00

 

Later let it become natural, and you will wake up naturally in the night, then sit up and practice naturally.....

 

Please find one basic practice here that can help....

 

~ Combine Heart Mind and Breathing ~

 

Feel free to email me a personal message, and we can share our experience, or talk in more detail........

[Ya Mu]

I don't think teachers are needed...just a good emptiness meditation (which can be found in many books).

 

I have to disagree here. Emptiness meditation needs no books and no teacher. All one has to do is sit quietly.

Advanced qigong is far from this type of meditation. Japanese doctors have research where they measure the brain waves of these type of meditation versus the meditative qigong practitioners. They found that both type stilled the brain waves into calmness but the qigong-style did this while also activating the creative centers of the brain.

Again, with all due respect to what you personally have gained from books, until a person experiences true High Level qigong they can't possibly personally know the difference. It is not about ANYTHING a teacher says but what a teacher can help you experience and know for yourself.

[Aetherous]

Ya Mu,

 

I have to disagree here. Emptiness meditation needs no books and no teacher. All one has to do is sit quietly.

Advanced qigong is far from this type of meditation.

 

I think emptiness meditation (not just sitting quietly, but true emptiness) is advanced qigong. Higher level vibrations happen as a result of the person penetrating the depths of the light of emptiness. True qigong.

 

This is my experience...although I'm not experienced enough and haven't dedicated enough time to it.

 

Japanese doctors have research where they measure the brain waves of these type of meditation versus the meditative qigong practitioners. They found that both type stilled the brain waves into calmness but the qigong-style did this while also activating the creative centers of the brain.

 

I've found that I activate more, and create more energy with my style of meditation (awareness watching awareness) than with any qigong I've tried so far. I think I have the highest technique. It's not just about relaxation and stillness of mind.

 

Again, with all due respect to what you personally have gained from books, until a person experiences true High Level qigong they can't possibly personally know the difference. It is not about ANYTHING a teacher says but what a teacher can help you experience and know for yourself.

 

I'm open to new things! This is just discussion. Maybe someday I will take your stillness movement course. I do think perhaps you have a lot to offer (especially with the medical qigong), but I will still have to disagree that a teacher is needed. What's needed is the right technique and tons of practice...no transmissions from another person which is just a distraction, only transmissions from the source.

[gendao]

I think a master or at least a great healer is good to have on hand to guide you through any murky waters, though. Our lives and bodies may often go through various odd changes during the "ascension" process, and it's good to have someone to give you an accurate diagnosis and guidance during these times. And make sure you handle them properly and stay healthy and on track.

 

Sure these questions may arise only 10% of the time, but otherwise, who else can you go to? A regular medical doctor or shrink will NOT be able to tell you what's really going on...

[Ya Mu]

Ya Mu,

I think emptiness meditation (not just sitting quietly, but true emptiness) is advanced qigong. Higher level vibrations happen as a result of the person penetrating the depths of the light of emptiness. True qigong.

 

This is my experience...although I'm not experienced enough and haven't dedicated enough time to it.

I've found that I activate more, and create more energy with my style of meditation (awareness watching awareness) than with any qigong I've tried so far. I think I have the highest technique. It's not just about relaxation and stillness of mind.

I'm open to new things! This is just discussion. Maybe someday I will take your stillness movement course. I do think perhaps you have a lot to offer (especially with the medical qigong), but I will still have to disagree that a teacher is needed. What's needed is the right technique and tons of practice...no transmissions from another person which is just a distraction, only transmissions from the source.

 

It is admirable that you have achieved so much. But what you can't understand, until you have experienced it, is that these energetics are not the same. High-Level teachers project information based energetics that one has to experience before it could possibly make sense. For medical/clinical qigong this is extremely important. One can advance much quicker and can manipulate energy more powerfully and with a deeper understanding (in other words actually help people instead of just saying they can). For self-realization, I am sure you are correct. A teacher that projects energy could cut the time for a beginner to reach this state from up to 15-20 years to 1-5 years, though; sometimes even less, as in a few months. But self-realization is only the first part of advanced qigong.

 

A few things:

I think emptiness meditation (not just sitting quietly, but true emptiness) is advanced qigong.

This IS the type of meditation the Japanese researchers were talking about (they had "masters"); this is not advanced qigong.

 

...no transmissions from another person which is just a distraction

Perhaps from some that claim themselves as teacher but can't really project much this is true. But absolutely NOT true from one that has reached this level.

Information based High-Level energy projection is not distraction, but 100% privilege to receive. This helps a person connect to THEIR Higher-Level self and realize who they really are. Only then can they actually truly connect to the "source". But again, until one has experienced it, this can make no sense to them.

Furthermore, there are ALWAYS Higher Levels. A person's energy body can always evolve. The energy projection raises the vibrational frequency of the energy body, giving said energy body access to an expanded awareness of energetics each time this projection is received.

 

I certainly do not mean this as personal about what level you have achieved. I don't know you, but from the posts you have made I do appreciate that you HAVE reached a good level of understanding.

 

What I teach is not for everyone. Only those that feel a resonance with it. But my understanding comes from close to 30 years of manipulating energy on a full-time basis, and with watching the evolution of many students as well as my own personal journey. Perhaps tomorrow my understanding will be different. Remember, there are ALWAYS Higher-Levels.

[mantis]

What I teach is not for everyone. Only those that feel a resonance with it. But my understanding comes from close to 30 years of manipulating energy on a full-time basis, and with watching the evolution of many students as well as my own personal journey. Perhaps tomorrow my understanding will be different. Remember, there are ALWAYS Higher-Levels.

 

where have i heard that before

[benny]

[hyok]

 

 

lol. funny video.

 

Well if appearing younger than one's age is a sign of regeneration or immortality, i must have reached it cuz i'm 35 but i look like i'm 24. Although being Asian, it's really hard to tell how old we are, even amongst ourselves.

[Ya Mu]

where have i heard that before

 

??

[Taiji Bum]

??

He's refering to the last two masters who just came saying basically the same thing you are. People come here all the time when they want new students or are selling stuff and they have even the slightest Taoist angle. The last two at least have been Chinese Taoists and were all about saying their teachings weren't for everyone but only the select few who felt called to it..... which is what you just kinda said.

 

I dont want to discourage you though. You seem to post more than just to get students and sell stuff. You actually seem to like it here.

[Ya Mu]

He's refering to the last two masters who just came saying basically the same thing you are. People come here all the time when they want new students or are selling stuff and they have even the slightest Taoist angle. The last two at least have been Chinese Taoists and were all about saying their teachings weren't for everyone but only the select few who felt called to it..... which is what you just kinda said.

 

I dont want to discourage you though. You seem to post more than just to get students and sell stuff. You actually seem to like it here.

 

I practice qigong, run a clinical qigong clinic, and teach full-time and have been doing so for a very long time. I would be glad to do it all for free if anyone wants to set me up with a trust fund so that I can live without charging a fee (really, I won't be offended). I do always guarantee satisfaction with my classes and in my clinic. I specialize in pain elimination and offer guaranteed pain relief or no fee. The small amount of funds received from classes, books and dvd's do not even begin to offset the costs. I do this simply to help others.

I could really care whether anyone here buys or likes my book. But for those that resonate with it, the book can be a powerful tool of awakening, so I offer it.

 

No teacher worth his salt says his teachings are for everyone. Folks that have inflated ego's, that are self-induced dumb as dirt and not willing to upgrade, that are too smart to believe that the brain is their worst enemy, that already know everything, that are really contrary, that are overly religious, that are new souls, that are too Taoist, that are too Buddhist, too Christian, too Zorastorian, too Athiest, that think qi can only be in the body and not projected, that have already found out who they really are and already developed the ability to part the curtain, that are not good and moral people; these are examples of people who will probably not resonate with what I teach and I believe these folks would be better off doing something else.

 

OMG, did I just eliminate all possible students? No, I sincerely believe that there are many good people that are seeking, many good potential healers that wish to learn advanced methods to help others, and that want to raise their awareness of the energy that is responsible for everything.

 

But all this has gotten off track with the topic of immortality. How many immortals out-of-body or in body has anyone here met? I dare say a few have. Some may have not realized it and some have.

[Taiji Bum]

Ya Mu, dont worry about a thead getting off track. They all do here.

[exorcist_1699]

Regarding the necessity of a teacher , quite strangely the traditional saying is :

 

性由自悟, 命假師傳

 

That is , regarding the spiritual aspect of cultivation , likely you can grasp it by self-understanding or self-perception if you are smart enough . It is the physical aspect , which involves everlasting life issue , that can never be caught by imagination , no matter how smart you are , and must be told ( by a teacher or other sources ; since seldom are such critical hints left in black and white , so likely you have to rely on a teacher ).

 

This is also the reason why many talented Zen monks , after having completed their steps of nourishing " a MIND from nowhere ", still have to live with their teachers for years . In fact, things related to spiritual aspects of our cultivation can be talked about publicly , things related to physical life /eternity can't be talked publicly .

Edited December 13, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Aetherous]

Ya Mu,

 

It is admirable that you have achieved so much. But what you can't understand, until you have experienced it, is that these energetics are not the same. High-Level teachers project information based energetics that one has to experience before it could possibly make sense. For medical/clinical qigong this is extremely important. One can advance much quicker and can manipulate energy more powerfully and with a deeper understanding (in other words actually help people instead of just saying they can). For self-realization, I am sure you are correct. A teacher that projects energy could cut the time for a beginner to reach this state from up to 15-20 years to 1-5 years, though; sometimes even less, as in a few months. But self-realization is only the first part of advanced qigong.

 

Well I've been through Kunlun and am in the process of another similar school, which are both supposed to be that kind of transmission. There have been great moments in my practice of these paths, where very interesting things have occurred energetically.

 

But the greatest moments for me yet have been as a result of my meditation. Not just self realization, but actual miraculous happenings in the physical world.

 

For instance, once when I went quite deep, thousands of birds started circling above me all fighting each other. Literally thousands or more right above my place. Another time, a very powerful storm started when it was a clear day.

 

To me, these are signs of higher levels of energy than anything else I've experienced from any practice which involves qi.

 

Another practice I used to do was teacherless...and I had quite an awakening from it, and a real glimpse of enlightenment. It seems to me at this point like the two go hand in hand: true realization and high level energetics. All systems of working with qi first seem to not be as effective.

 

At least at this point...perhaps I shouldn't draw conclusions so early.

 

Perhaps from some that claim themselves as teacher but can't really project much this is true. But absolutely NOT true from one that has reached this level.

Information based High-Level energy projection is not distraction, but 100% privilege to receive. This helps a person connect to THEIR Higher-Level self and realize who they really are. Only then can they actually truly connect to the "source". But again, until one has experienced it, this can make no sense to them.

Furthermore, there are ALWAYS Higher Levels. A person's energy body can always evolve. The energy projection raises the vibrational frequency of the energy body, giving said energy body access to an expanded awareness of energetics each time this projection is received.

 

That sounds good to me. I'm really not disagreeing with much other than that a teacher is NEEDED. And I still respect you and think I could learn a lot. It's kind of weird for me to debate something with someone who I consider far more advanced than myself and who I think has some answers I've been looking for (I really like how you describe your clinical qigong treatments).

 

But nevertheless...I've only been distracted by teachers on my path. Even if they were super advanced (far more than I am) and shared great things with me...perhaps I would've been better served practicing intensely and listening to my heart.

[Ya Mu]

Ya Mu,

Well I've been through Kunlun and am in the process of another similar school, which are both supposed to be that kind of transmission. There have been great moments in my practice of these paths, where very interesting things have occurred energetically.

 

But the greatest moments for me yet have been as a result of my meditation. Not just self realization, but actual miraculous happenings in the physical world.

 

For instance, once when I went quite deep, thousands of birds started circling above me all fighting each other. Literally thousands or more right above my place. Another time, a very powerful storm started when it was a clear day.

 

To me, these are signs of higher levels of energy than anything else I've experienced from any practice which involves qi.

 

Another practice I used to do was teacherless...and I had quite an awakening from it, and a real glimpse of enlightenment. It seems to me at this point like the two go hand in hand: true realization and high level energetics. All systems of working with qi first seem to not be as effective.

 

At least at this point...perhaps I shouldn't draw conclusions so early.

That sounds good to me. I'm really not disagreeing with much other than that a teacher is NEEDED. And I still respect you and think I could learn a lot. It's kind of weird for me to debate something with someone who I consider far more advanced than myself and who I think has some answers I've been looking for (I really like how you describe your clinical qigong treatments).

 

But nevertheless...I've only been distracted by teachers on my path. Even if they were super advanced (far more than I am) and shared great things with me...perhaps I would've been better served practicing intensely and listening to my heart.

 

I SEE now, before I was only reading what you wrote.

The reason you have felt that teachers held you back was because of who you are. Don't take this the wrong way, because what I mean is who you really are and not the body/mind that we all rent for a short period of time. You are what I call a natural. The naturals that I have seen (I have several as students) already have a deep connection with Spirit for they bring with them a lot of energy when they come to earth.) To put it another way, you can't not do qigong naturally. You probably couldn't define it before you started practicing.

My advice is what you have already realized: Don't let a teacher who has no more energy than you try to sway you to a distracting path (what you said). Embrace what you are and find & fulfill your destiny.

I would be willing to bet you saw spirits and into the other worlds when you were quite young but probably allowed your peers, parents, and others talk you out of this knowing by the time you were 6 or so.

Just because a teacher knows more forms or can say a lot of awesome things or can do phenomena does not mean they have more energy or a better connection than you. Seek the non-linear, you will find the linear newtonian approach very dull.

 

That said, don't let it go to your head. There is a teacher for you that can help you a great deal on your path; you just have to realize it when they appear and take advantage of it. Remember what I said about Listening. Also remember there are always Higher Levels.

 

If you ever decide you would like to try Stillness-Movement, come to one of my workshops. At the end of the workshop decide if you liked it or not, pay the fee only if you like it. My bet is you will find it is like coming home.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Ya Mu

[Shilivan]

I do have a question regarding this. In the Hermetic tradition there appears to be a method by which one stores up the semen. Throughout the process there appears to be a regimen of massage, muscular training, and energetics training. The goal seems to be to hold on to the semen until it completely breaks down, much like compost breaks down into a substance that resembles rich dark earth.

 

If I understand the general idea, one is to store up and compost the semen/sperm mixture until it breaks down into raw genetic material and nutrients which the body can then use to repair damage and disease.

 

The method seems to require such focus and control that there is no room for abuse of the gift. I desire to follow this path but don't understand the dangers or the details of the method.

 

If there are any with the proper understanding who walk the path, please heed the call of your brother. He seeks your aid.

 

Desire comes from sensation. By connecting myself more fully to this body and gaining control over it, I can direct it to produce the sensations that provide comfort and calm. I can route the "emergency" energies of "fight/flight" to the thinking mind rather than the feeling body; so that the emergency can be responded to with reason rather than reacted to with emotion. To do this my mind must be sharp and my body obedient to my will which must itself be subject to the will of the creator.

 

I will need good health and long life to achieve this. Hence my desire to understand the hermetic path. Is there a Daoist path which leads in the same direction?

Edited December 21, 2008 by Shilivan