Immortality

[dragonfire]

I know its possible to obtain it via the celibate route, but the question still remains for me, is it possible

to obtain it with a partner (wife)? Can anyone confirm this is possible with a partner? In the celibate

route, you're obviously not losing semen, but with a wife, you're bound to lose seed at some point. Even if

you practice 1 hundred sessions, you're going to ejaculate at least once.

 

Does anyone know if Sun Ssu Mo achieved immortality?

[Starjumper]

Who wants to be an immortal if you can't have sex? Sheesh. No, you don't need to be celibate unless you are over 200. Or at least you should be mostly celibate by 200, no absolutes.

[Anabhogya-Carya]

I know its possible to obtain it via the celibate route,

 

How do you know that? How many celibate immortals have you met?

[Ryan T.]

I know its possible to obtain it via the celibate route, but the question still remains for me, is it possible

to obtain it with a partner (wife)?

 

Why would you think that just because you have a wife that you won't be celibate?

 

You're obviously not married!

[Starjumper]

LOL, I know the feeling

[dragonfire]

StarJumper,

 

Immortality is not about wanting sex, its about wanting to escape rebirth. So I would

like to know if there were people that achieved it with a partner. Taoism

started with two branches, the south and north branches. One practiced celibacy

and the results were good and seen worldwide. I'm still not sure about the branch that practiced

with a partner.

 

Mantak Chia, Chunyi Li, and many of the modern western Taoists I see all have a wife

and kids. Does this mean they are living immortals or are these Taoists still just practitioners in the TAO and still trying to reach immortality.

 

Achieving enlightenment is one thing where you are illuminated with knowledge, but

to achieve multiple spirit bodies is another story. I've heard of many who achieve

illumination, but this is not immortality I think.

[exorcist_1699]

Neither celibate nor ascetic way of life can give you immortality , if they are , then we will have quite a lot of immortals in this world . It is said that only after your having completed the process of transforming jing ( sperm ) into qi , do you begin to live forever ... But to make it safer , you better transform your qi further into shen ( Spirit) ...

 

Because in that case you start to share the privileges of being gods/God, and grasp the utmost secret of life in the cosmos ,who dares to talk about it plainly on the internet ?

Edited December 9, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[dragonfire]

Neither celibate nor ascetic way gives you immortality , if they are , then we will have quite a lot of immortals in this world . It is said that only after your having completed the process of transforming jing ( sperm ) into qi , do you begin to live forever ... But to make it safer , you better transform qi further into shen ( Spirit) ...

 

Celibacy means abstaining from sex with another partner. It does not mean no self cultivation. Self

cultivation can mean many things as well.

 

Please delete this post. I realize this post was a bad idea.

[exorcist_1699]

 

Please delete this post. I realize this post was a bad idea.

 

 

Why deleting the post? Immortality is always a crucial and interesting topic

 

Besides, who really knows the secret of it ?

Edited December 9, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[ZenStatic]

How do you know that? How many celibate immortals have you met?

 

Listen, if you don't believe in things, fine. But stop mocking those that do. Your petty bullshit sprinkled throughout so man threads really starts to get old.

[Taiji Bum]

Celebacy seems the way to go as the high incidence of levitating and light radiating Catholic monks show. They seemed to have accidentally achieved the light-body soley with emptiness meditation, fasting and abstinence (no sex). I hear a lot of modern people say you can me married or just have sex and still be immortal but I have never heard of an instance of this.

 

I think you can get married AFTER you become immortal though and there are stories of immortals who achieved it after having a family by going into hermitage. It seems only during cultivation that you need to conserve essence.

[Ya Mu]

Why would you think that just because you have a wife that you won't be celibate?

 

You're obviously not married!

 

ROTFL - almost lost my morning tea...

[thelerner]

How do you know that? How many celibate immortals have you met?

 

edited away attempt at humour

 

I was taking the conversation frivolously. But like so many things spiritual. Where are the immortals? Its hard to aim when you don't have a target you can see.

 

 

 

What I'm getting at is discussions of immortals is problematic and always theoretical. Just defining what an immortal is, is controversial. So take it with a grain of salt.

 

 

Michael

[dao zhen]

[Taoist81]

Celebacy seems the way to go as the high incidence of levitating and light radiating Catholic monks show. They seemed to have accidentally achieved the light-body soley with emptiness meditation, fasting and abstinence (no sex). I hear a lot of modern people say you can me married or just have sex and still be immortal but I have never heard of an instance of this.

 

I think you can get married AFTER you become immortal though and there are stories of immortals who achieved it after having a family by going into hermitage. It seems only during cultivation that you need to conserve essence.

 

This is a statement that neglects the mystics of Sufi, Sikh and the myriad Protestant and occult traditions that have had reports of the same types of phenomenon while living the "householder lifestyle" with wife or wives and children. Mysticism and related elements have evolved around the world in diverse ways because each person while being an element of unity is also unique. For some avoiding sex and sexuality is natural for others it is abbhorant. The reducing of the infinite to one then none is what the path must be, the details vary.

[Anabhogya-Carya]

Listen, if you don't believe in things, fine. But stop mocking those that do. Your petty bullshit sprinkled throughout so man threads really starts to get old.

 

Are you saying what I asked is not valid? I was trying to get him to look at what he thinks he KNOWS. Believing and reading about it is not knowing. I did not think my comment was mocking. And listen (your logic at work here) if you don't like what I say stop responding to it. You only will facilitate further discussion.

 

He comes out saying that he knows one can be immortal, I would like to know how he knows. Maybe I will word it better next time so I don't annoy your sensitive self.

 

Furthermore, he said he knows not that he believes.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Anabhogya-Carya

[Squatting Monkey]

[Taiji Bum]

This is a statement that neglects the mystics of Sufi, Sikh and the myriad Protestant and occult traditions that have had reports of the same types of phenomenon while living the "householder lifestyle" with wife or wives and children. Mysticism and related elements have evolved around the world in diverse ways because each person while being an element of unity is also unique. For some avoiding sex and sexuality is natural for others it is abbhorant. The reducing of the infinite to one then none is what the path must be, the details vary.

Who? Give me some legitimate references on the married glowing levitators please! I REALLY NEED TO GET LAID!!!!!! (Thats a joke of course.)

Edited December 9, 2008 by DarinHamel

[Ya Mu]

I know its possible to obtain it via the celibate route, but the question still remains for me, is it possible

to obtain it with a partner (wife)? Can anyone confirm this is possible with a partner? In the celibate

route, you're obviously not losing semen, but with a wife, you're bound to lose seed at some point. Even if

you practice 1 hundred sessions, you're going to ejaculate at least once.

 

Does anyone know if Sun Ssu Mo achieved immortality?

 

First off your question is every bit as valid as all the other stuff posted or asked here.

 

I am going to go against the mainstream and say this:

 

Learn an internal qigong system

Practice said system diligently

Realize that it is not you and me and them but I and I and I

Be a good and moral person

Stay calm

Practice true love which includes physical love. If you wish a cultivation method that encourages loving sex I list one in my book.

 

Oh, and one more thing. You already are an immortal and just haven't realized it yet.

[Long Yun]

Oh, and one more thing. You already are an immortal and just haven't realized it yet.

I love this post! I think it's becoming increasingly hard for us to define immortality in a modern setting. And I've actually thought before that maybe all the enlightened ones and immortals didn't really know for sure that they were. I guess this comes to the fact that we don't know as much as we think we do, and that we never stop learning and evolving. Anyway, profound post.

[benny]

My cousin went to study with a Daoist monk at an undisclosed mountain range in China. He said there was one daoist monk a male and another who was female. They did not live in the same abode but lived in proximity to one another and they were THE ONLY ONES really out there.

 

Pretty cool. She's the herbalist he's the bagua master.

 

works well.

[dragonfire]

I've heard it all... Some say we are already immortal. I agree we are immortal (that is we were never born or died per our spirit body), however, we will die as a human being. You will go to the dirt where you came from. After you die, you will be reborn. If you are good, you'll be reborn as a human to relearn the way. If you are evil in your deeds, you will reborn as an animal after successive human rebirths since you didn't learn.

 

What is immortality or spirit immortality, you ask? It is escaping rebirth. Do you want to be reborn into this human life where you are up and down. Happy and sad, Pain and suffering, constantly? Just think about it,

you are never really happy. Even all the money you have will not make you happy. Even the beautiful wife you have will someday make you sad, because her beauty won't last. All the super rich at some point become depressed. Why? Because they don't know the way. This is all desire. There are 10,000 things to attract and lure you in.

 

How do I know that spirit immortality exists and people have achieved it? Well, its really simple. Deductive reasoning. If a master says do this and this and this will happen, it most likely will. Perform step one correctly,

and you might just open your eyes to a new world. If step 2 is done and results are achieved, do you not think

step 3 is at least possible? If the TAO was not true in its teaching, it won't be around for 10,000 years.

 

Again, I wish this post to be deleted, because the TAO was hidden for a reason. Its not meant for all. This

question is obviously for a master to answer. I do not think I am so lucky to have a master post here.

[exorcist_1699]

It seems only Taoism raises the issue of physical immortality in this world and has concrete steps to implement it ,ie , the way of jing-qi-shen , which also puts it under practical tests.

 

To other religions/ philosophies, you die or become a martyr ,then you become immortal in heaven forever, no need to pass any proof ...Nor do they bother to raise any...

 

But does it imply that it is just a technical issue in Taoism? in fact not; it is more a moral issue or both . Unable to solve the moral issues of it definitely will undermine your technical achievement .

Edited December 10, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Trash Filter]

Celibacy equals immortality? How old are you? Get your head out of the clouds and start with simple things first.

 

Firstly, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of physical immortals existing! Nor is there much evidence that being celibate brings long life.

 

There is evidence that having a healthy life gives longer life.

 

Celibacy is good for energy flow, and good chi does bring better quality life.

 

As far as Taoist methods go to making one physically immortal, it sounds like myth. Even some of the greats, still had to die.

 

There is evidence suggesting extension of life at rare advanced practice, as well as immortal consciousness after death.

[Apech]

Immortality as the goal. (?)

 

How do people understand this? For me immortality is principally the light-body. So by forming the light body - if you manage to achieve this you are beyond the cycle of birth and death - or rather you may consciously choose whether to incarnate or not. Beyond this is the transformation of the physical body. Whereby you go beyond even the need for repeated incarnations.

 

The first stage of the diamond light body is achievable in one life time, the second is a very rare event.

 

Both depend on realizing one's own nature. To do this is difficult and may involve celibacy to generate sufficient energy at key times - but there is no formula like celibacy = cultivation = immortality. It is about becoming aware of your true nature i.e. seeing it, then allowing it (i.e. the light) to suffuse and transform you. Beyond this are the transformation stages. For some, celibacy is appropriate but there are many instances of lay masters who are married and have children (e.g. in Tibetan Buddhism, Marpa the Translator, Milarepa's guru).