Immortality

[dragonfire]

Celibacy equals immortality? How old are you? Get your head out of the clouds and start with simple things first.

 

Firstly, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of physical immortals existing! Nor is there much evidence that being celibate brings long life.

 

There is evidence that having a healthy life gives longer life.

 

Celibacy is good for energy flow, and good chi does bring better quality life.

 

As far as Taoist methods go to making one physically immortal, it sounds like myth. Even some of the greats, still had to die.

 

There is evidence suggesting extension of life at rare advanced practice, as well as immortal consciousness after death.

 

Please delete this post. I did not post this so that I would get negative people responding. It is not my purpose. People can believe what they want.

[Apech]

Please delete this post. I did not post this so that I would get negative people responding. It is not my purpose. People can believe what they want.

 

 

Dragonfire,

 

Discussing immortality is helpful. You are not responsible for negative comments, the people who make them are.

[hyok]

Celibacy equals immortality? How old are you? Get your head out of the clouds and start with simple things first.

 

You probably could've worded that better.

 

Trash Filter, there've been numerous threads on immortality which most members on this forum seem to believe as being very possible. Why? Well, probably because it's discussed so frequently in Taoist texts.

 

Btw, how old are you?

[exorcist_1699]

To: dragonfire:

 

1) I mean even celibate or ascetic way of life not ensure your stopping release of jing , but if people can achieve it for a period of 4-5 months , then I think they find most of the arguments here meaningless ...

 

2) On the other hand, it is said that ,even married life sometime can make people accumulate enough jing for high level achievement as long as what you accumulate is more that what you release.

 

3) Sun SI MIU is generally believed to be an immortal by Taoists. The actual historical record is he aged over 100 years old and then disappeared ..

Edited December 10, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Trash Filter]

You have got be kidding.

 

Semen retention makes you immortal, that is ridiculous.

 

It doesn't take a genius to know it is but a small piece of an extremely complicated puzzle. The internal structures are so complex- you can't achieve much in this regard doing 30 mins a day, getting your micro/macros working.

 

The real methods which have some real quality is either lost, privileged to a few and/or requires more work then most people could possibly handle.

 

Even today, the best younger generations are not coming close to what the older could achieve, yet.

 

I can't tell you my age, but i am neither young nor old.

[exorcist_1699]

" Semen retention makes you immortal, that is ridiculous."

 

 

Why not try retaining it for 4~5 months ( I am not asking a very long time ) before making such criticism.

Edited December 11, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Taoist81]

Who? Give me some legitimate references on the married glowing levitators please! I REALLY NEED TO GET LAID!!!!!! (Thats a joke of course.)

 

One example of a definite non-celibate who supposedly glowed, floated and bilocated (if you believe such things) during trance, meditation or projection was Aleister Crowley, the "sex fiend beast" himself. A more famous example of a married "levitator" (supposedly by divine power) was Muhammad's Night Journey. Later examples are found in various reports of Sufi stories similar to the alleged flying monks and nuns during trance. Stories of Sikh gurus don't tend to be associated with floating, but that should not discount their transcendance.

The thing is, again, people tend to think you have to avoid sex to transcend it. However, if one sees the Divine through sex one can likewise transcend it, albeit in a different way. There are thousands (at least) of meditating monks and nuns, and the stories of floating and or glowing are still rare. If you would like more specific references to the "miracles" (all of which, including the celibates, could have been simple legends) one can search through the massive amounts of mystic traditions throughout the world. Remember also, that celibacy is a relatively new requirement for "spiritual strength".

[hyok]

You have got be kidding.

 

Semen retention makes you immortal, that is ridiculous.

 

It doesn't take a genius to know it is but a small piece of an extremely complicated puzzle. The internal structures are so complex- you can't achieve much in this regard doing 30 mins a day, getting your micro/macros working.

 

The real methods which have some real quality is either lost, privileged to a few and/or requires more work then most people could possibly handle.

 

Even today, the best younger generations are not coming close to what the older could achieve, yet.

 

I can't tell you my age, but i am neither young nor old.

 

I apologize for confronting your superior knowledge on the subject of immortality. My main reason was to let Dragonfire know that he/she is not alone in their observations in reading comprehension.

[exorcist_1699]

At first look ,retaining jing seems simple , but it is in fact a very troublesome issue. It is careless to refute its importance arbitrarily .

 

We know that very old guys do not produce jing ; it is also said that guys who are situated in extreme situation ( e.g , Jews detained in Nazi's camp ) did stop releasing jing for a long time . But under normal situation , you can't stop releasing it once or twice a month.

 

In fact, what makes we live and reproduce also makes we die . This is the yin/yang structure ( or dialectic ) of life . Death's seed is hidden when we were born . On the other hand, life , or the possibility of everlasting life ,is

also hidden in death . Of course, there are some missing , crucial blocks of this puzzle untold , or can't be told . But the general principles are already mentioned by some people on this forum .

Edited December 11, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Trash Filter]

Sorry to upset you.

I am experienced in celibacy. It does help the quality of life and give you a handful of years, but it alone will not make you live forever.

 

You take me the wrong way. If you are really serious about physical immortality, you will not find it in mainstream literture. It is a mystery to us all.

 

I am just trying to point you in the right direction.

 

You need to find a way to discover the hidden teachings. This probably involves some very remote places and people. If you do find a way, please share with the world...

[seadog]

That which is born will die.Simple.

If you want to understand immortality.

Look for that which has never been born.

[exorcist_1699]

Besides knowing the jing-qi-shen framework ,the yin/yang theory and I Ching are also important . Two trigrams : Li ( symbolize fire /spirit, where yin embedded in yang) and Kan (water/jing, where yang embedded in yin) :

 

____

__ __

_____ (Li)

 

and

 

__ __

_____

__ __ (Kan)

 

provide some of the missing blocks .

 

The post-heavenly status of humans is symbolized by a hexagram in which Li trigram on top , Kan at bottom .

So, we are half yin , half yang ; Returning / reversing to the pre-heavenly status means trying to become 100% pure yang ( initiate the so-called small cosmic circulation) .

Edited December 11, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Seth Ananda]

Lets not forget the Married Kabbalist Rabbi's, who take the union between Husband and Wife as a most serious deep religious sacrement. They peformed so many Miracles including levitating, walking on water, walking through walls, raising the dead, healing, existing without sustenance for long periods. Many of which was done in front of large groups of people.

And as someone also mentioned, the Sufi's, early Christian Gnostics (the ones following the Gospel of Philip not the celibate ones), Tantric Yogi's, Well probably nearly all Yogi's if you believe the stories... , and hosts more.

 

Im getting a bit sick of this opinion that only celibate Taoists are able to Attain anything, and that only celibate Taoists have a 'scientific' way of attaining what only they can attain, and that if you are a celibate Taoist, that some how you are Garunteed becoming a bullet proof levitating Immortal. It reeks of religious bigotry and simply, Shit aint like that!

 

By the way I glow after sex, and my mind is clear and stable, perfect for Deep One pointed concentration and Samadhi. (and it last for days if it had been a good session) Tell that to Bodhri

 

If being celibate really works for you then great! I too like periods of it as well.

 

 

Seth Ananda

[Taiji Bum]

A quote from Seth Ananda

Lets not forget the Married Kabbalist Rabbi's, who take the union between Husband and Wife as a most serious deep religious sacrement. They peformed so many Miracles including levitating, walking on water, walking through walls, raising the dead, healing, existing without sustenance for long periods. Many of which was done in front of large groups of people.

 

And as someone also mentioned, the Sufi's, early Christian Gnostics (the ones following the Gospel of Philip not the celibate ones), Tantric Yogi's, Well probably nearly all Yogi's if you believe the stories... , and hosts more.

 

These Rabbis also had sex only about two weeks out of the month and the miracle working ones either seperated from their wives for long periods of time like the Holy Lion or started to levitate and glow only AFTER their wives had died like the Maggid. I think this points to abstinence being necessary but not virginity.

Here is a quote from the wikipage of Isaac Luria:

 

About the age of twenty-two years old, he became engrossed in the study of the Zohar, a major work of the Kabbalah that had recently been printed for the first time, and adopted the life of a recluse. He retreated to the banks of the Nile, and for seven years secluded himself in an isolated cottage, giving himself up entirely to meditation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Luria

 

Im getting a bit sick of this opinion that only celibate Taoists are able to Attain anything, and that only celibate Taoists have a 'scientific' way of attaining what only they can attain, and that if you are a celibate Taoist, that some how you are Garunteed becoming a bullet proof levitating Immortal. It reeks of religious bigotry and simply, Shit aint like that!

 

By the way I glow after sex, and my mind is clear and stable, perfect for Deep One pointed concentration and Samadhi. (and it last for days if it had been a good session) Tell that to Bodhri

 

If being celibate really works for you then great! I too like periods of it as well.

Seth Ananda

 

I think were all just trying to figure things out as best we can with the tools we have.

[minkus]

Im getting to old for all this immortality stuff

[dragonfire]

For the non-believers, you guys can believe what you want. For those that have faith,

believe me, nothing is impossible.

[gendao]

NOTE: They left out - "I will not eat chocolate, and surf Tao Bums late at night..."

I can survive ok without sex for extended periods...but no internet for a few days? NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[Ya Mu]

 

Im getting a bit sick of this opinion that only celibate Taoists are able to Attain anything, and that only celibate Taoists have a 'scientific' way of attaining what only they can attain, and that if you are a celibate Taoist, that some how you are Garunteed becoming a bullet proof levitating Immortal. It reeks of religious bigotry and simply, Shit aint like that!

 

By the way I glow after sex, and my mind is clear and stable, perfect for Deep One pointed concentration and Samadhi. (and it last for days if it had been a good session) Tell that to Bodhri

 

If being celibate really works for you then great! I too like periods of it as well.

Seth Ananda

 

I have to agree with Seth.

The sexual alchemy (which IS Taoist, by the way) method that I teach and practice is, for me, as powerful at least as any ten 3 hr meditative, internal qigong practice(s). By "working" the energies, using the male RELEASED orgasm and the female orgasm, the energies ar so powerful that the veil is lifted and you and your partner are lifted into an entirely new vibratory state. At this point it is simple to re-capture any lost energies and also add-to previous state of being. Incredibly powerful. I do, however, say that both partners should be qigong practitioners.

[exorcist_1699]

Our post-heavenly status is a status where fire/ spirit and water/jing separated , which makes us forever incapable of detaining jing as we want .

 

Our spirit ,on top of our body , dispersed and lost in daily life reasoning , entertainment and all other seductions in this modern world ; Our jing , at the bottom of our body, lost in daily sex activities and nocturnal release .

 

The solution is to make them come together .

 

A famous Taoist saying is " When fire and water intermixed and have a intercourse , you never get old" (水火交,永不老)

[dao zhen]

Besides knowing the jing-qi-shen framework ,the yin/yang theory and I Ching are also important . Two trigrams : Li ( symbolize fire /spirit, where yin embedded in yang) and Kan (water/jing, where yang embedded in yin) :

 

____

__ __

_____ (Li)

 

and

 

__ __

_____

__ __ (Kan)

 

provide some of the missing blocks .

 

The post-heavenly status of humans is symbolized by a hexagram in which Li trigram on top , Kan at bottom .

So, we are half yin , half yang ; Returning / reversing to the pre-heavenly status means trying to become 100% pure yang ( initiate the so-called small cosmic circulation) .

 

_____

__ __

_____ (Li)

 

)

O Take the Yang from Kan and the Yin from Li.......

(

__ __

_____

__ __ (Kan)

 

 

Creating..........

 

_____

_____

_____ (Chien - the creative)

 

 

O

 

_____

_____

_____ (Kun - the receptive)

[exorcist_1699]

To : Dao Zhen

 

(O Take the Yang from Kan and the Yin from Li.......)

 

You just release what I am hesitant to speak ... You are really kind to your western fellows...

Edited December 12, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[mantis]

Sorry to upset you.

I am experienced in celibacy. It does help the quality of life and give you a handful of years, but it alone will not make you live forever.

 

You take me the wrong way. If you are really serious about physical immortality, you will not find it in mainstream literture. It is a mystery to us all.

 

I am just trying to point you in the right direction.

 

You need to find a way to discover the hidden teachings. This probably involves some very remote places and people. If you do find a way, please share with the world...

 

so you don't want to search but if someone else does the work, you want to profit as well huh

 

Lets not forget the Married Kabbalist Rabbi's, who take the union between Husband and Wife as a most serious deep religious sacrement. They peformed so many Miracles including levitating, walking on water, walking through walls, raising the dead, healing, existing without sustenance for long periods. Many of which was done in front of large groups of people.

And as someone also mentioned, the Sufi's, early Christian Gnostics (the ones following the Gospel of Philip not the celibate ones), Tantric Yogi's, Well probably nearly all Yogi's if you believe the stories... , and hosts more.

 

Im getting a bit sick of this opinion that only celibate Taoists are able to Attain anything, and that only celibate Taoists have a 'scientific' way of attaining what only they can attain, and that if you are a celibate Taoist, that some how you are Garunteed becoming a bullet proof levitating Immortal. It reeks of religious bigotry and simply, Shit aint like that!

 

By the way I glow after sex, and my mind is clear and stable, perfect for Deep One pointed concentration and Samadhi. (and it last for days if it had been a good session) Tell that to Bodhri

 

If being celibate really works for you then great! I too like periods of it as well.

Seth Ananda

 

according to bodri's sexual tantra article that is how you are supposed to feel after a good session (in which you don't ejaculate). if you just feel "calm" and "relaxed" that is because you have lost the built up sexual tension.

[dao zhen]

To : Dao Zhen

 

(O Take the Yang from Kan and the Yin from Li.......)

 

You just release what I am hesitant to speak ... You are really kind to your western fellows...

 

I hope someone can see the way, and follow it......

 

In reality, we can show the way and the secret, but most will never have eyes to see or the wisdom to understand...

 

Cultivating both True Nature and Life Force Together

 

True Nature means Congenital Shen, and Life Force means Qi. Originally, Congenital Shen and Primeval Qi are one, in a state of union, without any division. When people come into being, which means to be in an acquired stage, Congenital Shen settles in the heart sphere, giving rise to Congenital Nature. Then the Eighth Cognitive Shen will come to attach to Congenital Nature, surrounding it completely and the Cognitive Shen family will gradually develop to its full state. Primeval Qi takes place in the kidney sphere, giving rise to Jing, which refers to Life Force.

 

To sail against the current of life, pursuers of Tao need to bring Congenital Shen and Primeval Qi back into the former state of union.

[Seth Ananda]

 

 

These Rabbis also had sex only about two weeks out of the month and the miracle working ones either seperated from their wives for long periods of time like the Holy Lion or started to levitate and glow only AFTER their wives had died like the Maggid. I think this points to abstinence being necessary but not virginity.

Here is a quote from the wikipage of Isaac Luria:

 

That is just not true in every case. What about Baal Shem Tov who taught of the Goodness of all Gods creation and its pleasures in their correct place and Opposed Isaac Luria and His Asceticism. He peformed just as many Miricales as Isaac.

 

Seth

 

 

according to bodri's sexual tantra article that is how you are supposed to feel after a good session (in which you don't ejaculate). if you just feel "calm" and "relaxed" that is because you have lost the built up sexual tension.

Really? I havent read that one. although its been a while since I went to his site. Got a link?

I have only ever read him ragging on Dual cultivators and saying that they never even reach the first Levels of Samadhi.

Thanks. Seth

[mantis]