Secret of the Golden Flower

[mYTHmAKER]

GAWD! Why was I such a jerk in that above post? I did catch a nymph btw!

 

 

Believe it or not she caught you

[april]

[Creation]

Thanks for the contribution, April. And thank you for helping Mr. Semple bring his message to the world.

 

I often contemplate how, when I post on this forum, I'll never know who might read it and what effect it might have. The internet is an amazing communication tool, for good or ill. While I had entertained the idea that Mr. Semple would somehow or another come across my query, I certainly did not expect it. And yet, a reply came. How 'bout them apples? As Mr. Semple so kindly offered to answer questions about his work, please pass this along to him.

 

 

Mr. Semple,

 

My apologies about the reversing the light confusion. In my ignorance, I assumed that was the same as the, "reversing the flow", which you say is the key element of your technique, correct? I understand the linguistic difficulties inherent in such dialogue, especially in an internet forum such as this one where people of widely varying backgrounds and ability levels attempt to communicate with each other about esoteric topics. In fact, this difficulty causes no end of trouble here on thetaobums.com.

 

My primary question to you is this: You say your method is "voluntary, safe, permanent, repeatable". Regarding repeatability, have you guided anyone other than yourself through this process? Regarding safety, did they have the same hellish experience that you did for the period that the Kundalini was traveling up the spine? Do you have methods for reducing the difficulty and pain of the experience?

 

I also have some other questions, but answering them will no doubt bring up the aforementioned communication difficulties. Answer them as you see fit, or not at all. First, what do you find is the relationship between Kundalini and sexual energy? After all, there are Taoist methods of sublimation that do not necessarily involve a snake in the sacrum uncoiling up the spine, or anything even close. Some speak of two stages of Kundalini. First, one of "awakening", where sexual energy is sublimated from the genitals/perineum/tailbone to the crown, perhaps intentionally, perhaps spontaneously. Second, "full arousal" where the snake uncoils from the sacrum up the spine, which happens spontaneously, though there are methods of reducing the time it takes to begin and progress. Does your method have these stages? Or are the sublimating and the Kundalini arousal completely intertwined? Last, how do you consider Kundalini to be related to ordinary prana/chi, which is always flowing? These are questions that continually come up around here, where Taoist cultivators don't have anything like Kundalini on their path, or at least it is hidden under some other name and with other baggage, and the Taoists here are either not advanced enough or unwilling to pick it out. So I ask for the benefit of all the curious Taoists here who are too deep into their own practices to seek Kundalini specific practices. A good idea of target audience could be those who have some experience with chi, opening the energy channels, and sublimation of sexual vitality into energy, but not Kundalini arousal as described by the Yogis. If you decide that experience is essential and these questions cannot be answered properly in the present context I would completely understand. I know that practical experience is necessary for true understanding, and I am presently learning and practicing a method of Kundalini awakening, though of course I am very curious how you would reply.

 

Thank you for your time and consideration. Your memoir is enthralling and informative, and I am very grateful for your efforts to share your knowledge with the world.

 

With best regards,

Tyler Jones

[bukejian]

Here's where some of the confusion comes in on my part, The Golden Flower method is supposedly taoist in origin, I assume: as it was supposedly invented by Lu Dong Bin, one of the Eight Drunken Immortals. Then why are people using Yoga terms to describe this technique? am I to assume kundulini and chi are the same thing? I don't get this. someone please help me out here.

[Sunya]

April ,

 

i read some of Deciphering on google books, very interesting.. contemplating buying it and the new book. i really like reading personal experiences and a safe powerfully effective method for K awakening is intriguing.

 

what does Mr. Semple say about Cleary vs Wilhelm translations? I believe I have the Cleary translation somewhere..

 

I believe this question was repeated by Creation but i'd second asking about anyone gone through full K awakening through the Golden Flower method?

 

about the Kundalini process, I would appreciate hearing Mr Semple talk about whether there is a 'goal' or if its an ongoing process.. in other words, the health of the body seems to only be a secondary goal compared to the primary goal of deepening awareness and sinking into primal consciousness. from Mr Semple's experience and possible speculation beyond that, is there ever a point where the process is finished? while in the physical body? or perhaps at the moment of death?

 

thank you,

 

Mikael

[bukejian]

I still have serious reservations about the saftey of this method. Just because some one says its completley safe or writes it in a book don't mean it is. In my humble opinion there are more things that can go wrong, than right with this method. This is especially so, with out a qualified teacher to guide you. I would advise any one practicing this technique on thier own, to take it easy, and be very careful. It make no sense to harm yourself in the interest of what ever attainment you're seeking.

 

Bu

Edited January 27, 2009 by bukejian

[april]

Edited January 28, 2009 by april

[Creation]

Here's where some of the confusion comes in on my part, The Golden Flower method is supposedly taoist in origin, I assume: as it was supposedly invented by Lu Dong Bin, one of the Eight Drunken Immortals. Then why are people using Yoga terms to describe this technique? am I to assume kundulini and chi are the same thing? I don't get this. someone please help me out here.

 

The only reason this is occurring is because Mr. Semple had a full Kundalini awakening by practicing the method he extracted from SofGF. He met Gopi Krishna, who confirmed this. But your questions are indeed the ones that beg to be answered.

 

Also, I second all of mikaelz's questions.

 

My reply to our esteemed guest is on it's way, but that will take time to formulate. I am rather ecstatic that we are actually getting to chat with JJ Semple on here.

[Long Yun]

I am rather ecstatic that we are actually getting to chat with JJ Semple on here.

As am I. It's rare to come into contact with someone who has actually succeeded in practicing a method that you are particularly interested in. At least for me anyway

[Adam West]

Hello April and JJ!

 

Thank you for your continuing effort to dialogue with Taobums, a community of sincere seekers and practitioners of humanity's traditional self-(realization)actualization methods.

 

JJ, I wonder if you would comment on how you came to the conclusion of the specific breath ratio that is made use of in the backwards-flow method (BFM)?

 

As I understand it, the (BFM) is reverse abdominal breathing, which is known to be a very powerful kundalini-Chi-Alchemal practice and sublimation-transformational method found in traditional Taoism, Indian Yoga and Tibetan Tantra etc. However, the method does come with minor variations across schools and traditions i.e. such as no gap or pause in the breath cycle (often known as connected or circular breathing - no pause between either the inhalation or the exhalation); or inclusive of a said pause at either end of the breath cycle and so on. May I ask what is your thinking on the 4 count breath (in and out, and the pause at both ends of exhalation and inhalation)? Is this the optimal variation, if so why?

 

Would you speculate as to what would be the physical correlate following a change in breath ratio, say no pause at either end of the exhalation or inhalation? Do you think such a change would weaken or strengthen the process of neurological stimulation/activation and kundalini arousal? It is these kinds of technical details that have been debated for generations amongst adepts and schools.

 

Thanks so much for you insight!!

 

In kind regards,

 

Adam.

 

* Edited for spelling.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Adam West

[Sunya]

 

 

JJ, I wonder if you would comment on how you came to the conclusion of the specific breath ratio that is made use of in the backwards-flow method (BFM)?

 

As I understand it, the (BFM) is reverse abdominal breathing, which is known to be a very powerful kundalini-Chi-Alchemal practice and sublimation-transformational method found in traditional Taoism, Indian Yoga and Tibetan Tantra etc. However, the method does come with minor variations across schools and traditions i.e. such as no gap or pause in the breath cycle (often known as connected or circular breathing - no pause between either the inhalation or the exhalation); or inclusive of a said pause at either end of the breath cycle and so on. May I ask what is your thinking on the 4 count breath (in and out, and the pause at both ends of exhalation and inhalation)? Is this the optimal variation, if so why?

 

Would you speculate as to what would be the physical correlate following a change in breath ratio, say no pause at either end of the exhalation or inhalation? Do you think such a change would weaken or strengthen the process of neurological stimulation/activation and kundalini arousal? It is these kinds of technical details that have been debated for generations amongst adepts and schools.

 

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the 4/4 breath count is used in the beginning just to still the mind. I think that these technical details you mention are just variations in style, some breathing practices are more forceful than others, JJs style seems pretty natural.

 

you can read about the method here:

http://www.goldenflowermeditation.com/the_method.html

[宁]

it's supposed to be a secret, i don't think you'll find it on the web

 

that guy in the link is putting his own thoughts as the practice, you don't need to be an expert to know that

[lino]

Hello April and JJ!

 

Thank you for your continuing effort to dialogue with Taobums, a community of sincere seekers and practitioners of humanity's traditional self-(realization)actualization methods.

 

JJ, I wonder if you would comment on how you came to the conclusion of the specific breath ratio that is made use of in the backwards-flow method (BFM)?

 

As I understand it, the (BFM) is reverse abdominal breathing, which is known to be a very powerful kundalini-Chi-Alchemal practice and sublimation-transformational method found in traditional Taoism, Indian Yoga and Tibetan Tantra etc. However, the method does come with minor variations across schools and traditions i.e. such as no gap or pause in the breath cycle (often known as connected or circular breathing - no pause between either the inhalation or the exhalation); or inclusive of a said pause at either end of the breath cycle and so on. May I ask what is your thinking on the 4 count breath (in and out, and the pause at both ends of exhalation and inhalation)? Is this the optimal variation, if so why?

 

Would you speculate as to what would be the physical correlate following a change in breath ratio, say no pause at either end of the exhalation or inhalation? Do you think such a change would weaken or strengthen the process of neurological stimulation/activation and kundalini arousal? It is these kinds of technical details that have been debated for generations amongst adepts and schools.

 

Thanks so much for you insight!!

 

In kind regards,

 

Adam.

 

* Edited for spelling.

 

The way that I understand the backwards flow is like this:

 

Take a deep breath, just deep enough to feel pressure at the base of your skull.

Don't over do it. Pause your breath.

 

Then move your attention to either your heart, perineum, or your Dan Tien.

You'll feel a flow going down your spine.

 

The purpose of this, I suspect, is to clear the central channel, Ida, and Pingala

of obstructions.

 

You can feel the backwards flow without reverse breathing.

You do not have to contract the perineum or do any type of kegel lift.

Edited January 28, 2009 by lino

[sasblamthanb]

[Creation]

[Taiji Bum]

[bukejian]

I come across an interesting passage in the Bible last night. Yes, I am a Chistian first and foremost.

 

Matthew 6:22

"The light of the body is in the eyes; therefore if the eyes be single, thy whole body shall be full of light."

 

That one kinda makes you wonder.

 

Bu

Edited January 29, 2009 by bukejian

[april]

Edited February 3, 2009 by april

[deci belle]

Cleary's is a product of Chan/Northern School of Complete Reality, which deals with "mind only". If that is your emphasis, I recommend it highly.

 

"Turning around the light" is the same as the "taking over creation", in other alchemical works.

 

It is quite an audacious process. It is very much like "Art of War" in terms of actualization of objective awareness and adapting to situations impersonally. There is this aspect of "it's not about me", yet it is also "it's just me" - so you leave the world out of the equation, making it just the variable formula.

 

What is really happenning is that you are making YOURSELF the "other". You let the "formula" deal with "other", while you take the heat impersonally. Like "The Matrix", the world does NOT want you to be doing this at all. You are actually screwing with CREATION.

 

While "The world", becomes the situation with which you adapt, you deal with it on its terms. But, you operate on your own time-table. YOU make the world wait. Do you believe this is easy to describe?

 

Jesus said "Be wise as serpents and innocent as doves." Be utterly true and sincere to this situation, but never forget that "turning around the light" is no joke. Creation is out to kill you anyway. This is a fight for your life.

 

Do you have any doubt what life I refer to? Even if you succeed, the world will never know the difference. Why should it? Neither you nor it exist.

 

In the meantime, all one can do is refine the self and await the time. I have been describing the time where you use the world to refine yourself instead of gratify yourself. The world says "when". You say "how".

[Sunya]

April,

 

a couple questions for JJ Semple

 

does JJ teach that 100 days of celibacy is necessary for his method? i've only skimmed through both books but didn't find an outright statement saying that it was necessary, only that he gave up sex because it was too painful and tiring.

 

, in the book JJ says that he found proof that the ego survives beyond death. what does he mean by ego? and how does he have proof if this if he is still alive?

 

lastly, I am a musician as well so i'm wondering how music helped JJ on the spiritual path? how can music be used as an aid to one searching deeper.. and not getting caught up in it as just an obsession of the mind. also i'm curious about how he views and relates to music now after awakening.

 

 

thank you

 

i've found this communication very helpful

[Sunya]

i've just finished reading the first book, and haven't started the 2nd one yet. but i'm confused. what did JJ Semple actually accomplish? I think that the goal of the Secret of the Golden Flower is more than just physical health and creativity and whatever else he talks about. where is the mystical stuff? I understand if the book is geared more towards an audience that is looking for health, which is much more broad than the kind actually seeking truth through kundalini and meditation.. but that is the real goal here isn't it?

 

i'm going to read his 2nd book tomorrow, i hope it goes deeper into the more interesting juicy stuff

 

in one part of the first book Semple says something like if your goal with kundalini is enlightenment than you're getting ahead of yourself, and says that physical healing is a better goal to attain. i don't particularly agree :>

but then again, i don't know anything! i just think placing the ultimate goal as your target is the way to go

Edited February 3, 2009 by mikaelz

[limitless sky]

wu- liu. i have twenty years of practice in the golden flower and its related practices if u would like to correspond, i would welcome the info exchange.

[Adam West]

wu- liu. i have twenty years of practice in the golden flower and its related practices if u would like to correspond, i would welcome the info exchange.

 

Hi Limitless Sky!

 

I'm sure many of us would be interested in your knowledge and insights. Why don't you two correspond publicly on the forum? Maybe even start a new thread?

 

I look forward to hearing your views on the golden flower, particularly from a practice stand point.

 

Would you start by stating what is your background training and experience with the Golden Flower and what is your present understanding of its aims and primary practice method?

 

Many thanks!

 

In kind regards,

 

Adam.

[limitless sky]

my background in training began with discovering the books related to the golden flower some of which are already mentioned on this forum. from there i inquired with kung fu teachers , eventually finding one that knew the whole practice. i started with the simple exercises you find in print and had to wait several years to move to the intermediate levels and then to the advanced. only parts of these techniques are found in print, such as bone breathing/ marrow washing.

my experiences span many years and i am hesitant to mention them.

The aim is bliss knowledge existence, the true state of our reality. what you find is an elevation of the spirit as the energy moves to the head, faculties and functions are opened up and you perceive directly the state of the universe and your place and role in it and the unlimited potential you have as your consciousness unfolds. daily practice allows this state to last longer and longer and u desire to remain in this state and so you start really taking it seriously. people have limited experiences because generally they try to force the qi, which does move but it is not the correct way. in the beginning i did not realize that u have to collect a lot of energy in dantian so the experience is greater and lasts longer. then one day the ball in dantian impregnates and you realize it has its own consciousness, an amazing fucking day u will never forget, then it moves by itself and if you can overcome the fear it will circulate. to begin, If you can attach and constantly bring your focus back to the inhaling the qi within the breath and directing it to dantian then eventually the mind is overcome and becomes your slave not your ruler and you discover how to use your will. the most important thing is to make a proclamation ' i will train everyday ' and stick to it at all costs. if you can do this then in a very short time nature herself will open her door to you and you may ask her the things you wish to know and she will show you.

[Long Yun]

my background in training began with discovering the books related to the golden flower some of which are already mentioned on this forum. from there i inquired with kung fu teachers , eventually finding one that knew the whole practice. i started with the simple exercises you find in print and had to wait several years to move to the intermediate levels and then to the advanced. only parts of these techniques are found in print, such as bone breathing/ marrow washing.

my experiences span many years and i am hesitant to mention them.

The aim is bliss knowledge existence, the true state of our reality. what you find is an elevation of the spirit as the energy moves to the head, faculties and functions are opened up and you perceive directly the state of the universe and your place and role in it and the unlimited potential you have as your consciousness unfolds. daily practice allows this state to last longer and longer and u desire to remain in this state and so you start really taking it seriously. people have limited experiences because generally they try to force the qi, which does move but it is not the correct way. in the beginning i did not realize that u have to collect a lot of energy in dantian so the experience is greater and lasts longer. then one day the ball in dantian impregnates and you realize it has its own consciousness, an amazing fucking day u will never forget, then it moves by itself and if you can overcome the fear it will circulate. to begin, If you can attach and constantly bring your focus back to the inhaling the qi within the breath and directing it to dantian then eventually the mind is overcome and becomes your slave not your ruler and you discover how to use your will. the most important thing is to make a proclamation ' i will train everyday ' and stick to it at all costs. if you can do this then in a very short time nature herself will open her door to you and you may ask her the things you wish to know and she will show you.

Sounds wonderful! Based on what JJ Semple has said, would you say that you have had a similar experience? In other words, when you start the practice, you do deep abdominal breathing and heart rate control followed by the backward flowing method. After this is activated, you are more or less along for the ride. Of course there are more intricate parts within this, but does this sound like the general experience you had?