Secret of the Golden Flower

[Creation]

[gendao]

So the rotation is not of the microcosmic orbit but of the dan tien itself? Perhaps that explains the direction difference in direction. To clarify, it the sensation of a forward spinning is independent of whether one is breathing in or out, correct? Actually, what you describe (down the back, up the front) seems more like backward, because a wheel spinning like that would go backwards...

 

I have heard of the sensation of a spinning in the lower abdomen before, I think from Waysun Liao's T'ai Chi Classics. Anyone else have info on this from another perspective/lineage?

Is the current spinning in a vertical loop like a waterwheel, or a horizontal circle like a clockface lying flat on the ground?

[AugustLeo]

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[AugustLeo]

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[AugustLeo]

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[Guest winpro07]

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Edited March 16, 2009 by winpro07

[rain]

..

 

 

 

ahh. I "run" like crazy to reach winpro's comments..but have to bite the dust ...

Edited March 16, 2009 by rain

[april]

Here's another description of the breathing process.

Don't know whether this helps, or is even visible, but here's a crude cross-section drawing of the "breath" sensation. In Figure 1, after much practice, the practitioner perceives (gets the sensation) that the "breath is flowing" in the direction as illustrated. In Figure 2, he executes a mental command to have the breath change directions, and it does. This begins the Kundalini awakening process as described in Deciphering the Golden Flower One Secret at a Time.

 

 

In Figure 2, "the breath" moves in the opposite direction (backward) in relation to Figure 1.

 

Don't know whether this clarifies. I'm a really bad artist. Nevertheless, as I was sitting one morning almost 40-years-ago, I was suddenly able to sense/visualize my breath and it had the "property of direction." That is, it was flowing as in Figure 1. Immediately, that sparked a connection with The SGF. I grabbed the book, found the reference to the backward-flowing method, read it and decided I had found the key to the book. I realized it meant I would have to and would be able to change the direction of the perceived flow merely by mentally commanding the breath to start circulating in the other (reverse) direction. I also realized that it was irreversible.

 

I did and it worked, and it is irreversible.

 

More later...after I find a good artist.

 

JJ Semple

[AugustLeo]

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[AugustLeo]

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[april]

One question - does the flow of breath you show occur only in the abdomen or does it follow the microcosmic orbit (i.e., up the spine, over the head, down the front), and is it only "down the front" on the inhale instead of "up the back" on the inhale?

 

Thanks.

Have you read my account in Deciphering the Golden Flower One Secret at a Time? It describes what happens after you reverse the "breath." That's what you want to do as soon as you detect the condition described in my previous post. The only thing to consider with the rational mind, at this point, is whether you really want to do it. I say this because activating Kundalini is a big step. Not everyone has the leisure time to deal with an active Kundalini.

 

Reversing the breath triggers a series of autonomic events. It's what I call the It does you phase!; you are no longer in charge. So, the question is: Do you want to turn your life over to Kundalini?

 

JJ

[AugustLeo]

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[AugustLeo]

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[Long Yun]

From Cultivating the Energy of Life by Liu Hua-Yang, translated by Eva Wong:

Wow! That's quite a provocative bit of info, Leo. I wish I had my copy with me. Have you compared it with the Hui Ming Ching from the back of the Wilhelm version? You know, the text between the Golden Flower and Jung's commentary. I'm curious to see how they relate. And I wonder exactly how to interpret this section... What were you thinking?

[AugustLeo]

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[Aetherous]

Do not use the 'forward' or 'backward' methods. The 'forward method' refers to techniques of massage and breath control. The 'backward method' refers to techniques of concentrated (insight) meditation. These methods do not cultivate original nature and life simultaneously.

 

What methods are used, according to Eva Wong's translation? Or should I just go buy the book?

[AugustLeo]

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[Long Yun]

I've merely quoted some parts of the book in isolation. It would be best to read the book and draw your own conclusions.

This is still a very interesting observation, Leo. I read Wong's book before I knew anything about the backward flowing method, or really anything about Taoism, so I didn't even remember this passage. I am truly at a loss right now, haha. I'm glad I don't have these books with me actually. I'd probably be up all night re-reading them. Based on Wong's explanation, we'd probably be better off steering clear of the Wilhelm version all together. That's wierd to me, since both JJ Semple and Darin here on taobums have used the Wilhelm version. *Ugh* I'm back to my old arguing with myself thing again...

[AugustLeo]

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[Long Yun]

From my perspective, JJ Semple's results and Darin's results speak for themselves.

A good point. I'm going to look into it more at Easter, since that's the next time I'll be at my house. Still, I'm glad you put that passage up there. Makes me want to delve deeper, which is a good thing, I think.

[Long Yun]

This has been a really good thread! I've learned alot and heard some really inspirational and informative things, both from Mr. Semple and from the rest of you guys and gals. This has sparked some really interesting possibilities and I hope that everyone helps explore them. Awesome.

 

I am curious to see what the Hui Ming Ching says about what the correct method is. From what I remember, it was describing the microcosmic orbit and the joining of kan and li, though it did not give specific exercises. Almost all (in fact I think all) of the information I've come across is either "techniques of massage and breath control" or "techniques of concentrated (insight) meditation." Maybe I'm not seeing something...

 

Do not use the 'forward' or 'backward' methods. The 'forward method' refers to techniques of massage and breath control. The 'backward method' refers to techniques of concentrated (insight) meditation. These methods do not cultivate original nature and life simultaneously.

Could there be an emphasis on the or? Perhaps it is saying that massage and breath control cultivate life, while techniques of meditation cultivate original nature. Maybe saying and instead of or? By using these together in a method like the Golden Flower, we cultivate them simultaneously?

 

Am I grasping for reasons here?

Edited March 24, 2009 by Wu-Liu

[AugustLeo]

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[Trunk]

*grumble*

Well, this thread looks interesting - and I haven't kept up on it at all.

Gonna have to read from beginning.

[AugustLeo]

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[Taiji Bum]

I prefered the Wilhelm translation. Cleary tries to paraphrase things too much seeking a very biased meaning in most cases in the actual practices and results. Jungs commentary was invaluable to me, also.