Secret of the Golden Flower

[AugustLeo]

.

[AugustLeo]

.

[Fire Dragon]

Hello All

 

I have had time today and read the whole thread on the golden flower. Wery interesting indeed. I also read walter Piccas tranlation from 1964 and schimed through the wang Lipings students version of it.

 

Wery interesting reading on the thread and in the translations.

 

 

My own sparse relations to the book in my life!

 

For about 20 years ago I come across Riccard Wilhems translation of it during intensive studies of Jungian litterature of all kind. I didn't grasp much of it during that time. It took me awhile after starting with the universal tao system before I realised that the text and my new interest was about the same subject, taoist yoga.

 

During my early practise in the universal tao system I had a vision telling me that I would come into contact with the ligth. That ligth would tell me the meaning of my life. It was a certanity that I would come into contact with it if I continued my practise dilligently. That vision have been the the inner most meaning of my practise. It means that my life have a meaning and that I am able to see what it is, amasing! The vision had more content to it and When I reread the introduction by Jung to Richard Wilhems version of the TSOTGF I was amased of hes descripion of the ligth. It was exactly the same that I had my vision about.

 

During my practise in the white tigress system I was meditating daily on the original cavity or the ancestrall hall that it also is called. A point betwean the eyes a bit above and a bit behind the eyes. During that practise I saw flaschings of ligths in the ancestors hall. I did also dream about my ancestors and how they lived what problems they had and how they where related to the society as a whole. The experience with the ancestors hall was one of a few things that did motivate me to go and take courses with Hsi Lai.

 

My feeling is that this practise the secret of the golden flower will be a part of my future investigations into the taoist yoga system.

 

Without jet reading the books, I will just thank JJ Semple for hes sharing and concreatisising, from own experience, the methods in the text. I think such work is realy beneficial to us all that are intereted in this kind of spiritual path. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

F D

[AugustLeo]

.

[gendao]

[Guest winpro07]

What is a Ligth?

 

""During my early practise in the universal tao system I had a vision telling me that I would come into contact with the ligth.''

[Fire Dragon]

What is a Ligth?

 

""During my early practise in the universal tao system I had a vision telling me that I would come into contact with the ligth.''

 

 

Hello. I do not know. But the ligth is described as the golden flower in the texts or comments to the secret of the golden flower. The ligt is to be circulated and fixed in the same time, if I understund the practise rigth.

 

For me the light is:

 

A part of shen, connected to the heaveanly realms. The spirit that shows you the meaning of your life and connects you with the heaven. So that you are able to live a life with a higher purpose.

 

In the forword to the secret of the golden flower, R Wilhems version, by Jung. He also describes it in relation to the saints and theire visions. For instace the light seen by Hildegard av Bingen all here life.

 

This is as far I get with my small understunding of it. I need alot more taoist theory to grasp it.

 

 

By the way. I dissagree with Jung in that sence that he says that the east can't be grasped with a western mind. It might have been the case at hes time of living though. He takes away the methaphysical meanings from the texts and translate them to hes own symbolism from analytical psychology. He also warns against trying to practise this. The texts had a major implement on hes own theory and was the most important source for hem to connect hes ideas to something earlier written in the human history. So though it influenced hem alot he doesn't seemed to have grasped it. Perhaps beacase he never practised the taoist yoga methods hemself.

 

 

 

F D

[april]

Edited April 8, 2009 by april

[Guest winpro07]

it seemed so

[Long Yun]

After glancing at the Cleary version, I've come to the conclusion that it's not quite the same thing as Inner Alchemy. The only things it has to say regarding energetics really are "...[O]nce you turn the light around, the energies throughout the body all rise. Just turn the light around; this is the unexcelled sublime truth." And the chapter "The Intercourse of Water and Fire" says that the true intercourse is sitting in "profound silence." Since the Wilhelm is incomplete, I have nothing to compare this chapter to. And I think the Microcosmic Orbit goes totally unmentioned... I'll be reading it again in depth next.

 

Anyway, the Cleary version discusses Inner Alchemy as a strictly mental process, with no mention of gathering and purifying the three energies traditionally associated with Alchemy. Essentially it says, "Be still and quiet of mind and you've done Inner Alchemy because all the energies do their own thing when you just sit in emptiness." I don't know if I agree with that. While I admit that Inner Alchemy will require mental stillness as one aspect of practice, I think that there's a level beyond that. Right? Maybe I'm wrong. I'm going to try it soon I think. Just sitting in stillness shouldn't affect my ability to procreate...

 

So, based on this, I think that the Cleary translation makes for a great starting point. I think that it is a meditation to still and pacify the mind, which I think is the first step in Taoist practice, but that it is not a complete guide to Inner Alchemy.

 

That's not to say that the Wilhelm is a complete guide either, but it certainly seems more like what I consider Inner Alchemy to be than the Cleary does.

 

So, I'll read the Cleary, learn the meditation and with a positive and open frame of mind, learn to not think. Then, I may consider doing other Alchemical practices. But I don't think I'm ready to practice any real energetic transformation yet. I'll work on stillness and perhaps clearing my channels of blockages, but nothing beyond that for a while.

 

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, with a special thanks to JJ Semple and to everyone else who contributed their experiences. Peace.

 

By the way, what parts of the method do you think relate to gathering and refining Jing, Qi, and Shen?

[Kronos]

The spirit that shows you the meaning of your life ... So that you are able to live a life with a higher purpose.

 

absolutely :-)

[forestofsouls]

[Taiji Bum]

According to Wilhelm's translation in the SotGF, I noticed this comment:

It seems like there are two backward flowing methods, or at least two levels of the BFM.

Eyes directed back is the how its done and the generative fluids going back and up is the what is done. Theres just one backward flowing method.

[Mal]

[forestofsouls]

Darin,

 

I invite you to look closely at the Buddhist portions of the SotGF. Turning the light around, seeing human nature's original face, the finger pointing at the moon--- these all draw from Buddhist sources.

 

Of course, you are free to interpret them however you like!

 

Eyes directed back is the how its done and the generative fluids going back and up is the what is done. Theres just one backward flowing method.

[Taiji Bum]

Darin,

 

I invite you to look closely at the Buddhist portions of the SotGF. Turning the light around, seeing human nature's original face, the finger pointing at the moon--- these all draw from Buddhist sources.

 

Of course, you are free to interpret them however you like!

I'm not interpreting. I did it.

[april]

[rain]

This breathing seems identic to the deep automous embryonic breathing.

I have reached it through sitting and forgetting spontaneous qigong practise.

And assume it is achieveable for everyone.

 

I think the remark about karma is highly suspicious.

[april]

[april]

This breathing seems identic to the deep automous embryonic breathing.

I have reached it through sitting and forgetting spontaneous qigong practise.

And assume it is achieveable for everyone.

 

I think the remark about karma is highly suspicious.

 

 

[From the Bhagavad Gita]

Among thousands of men, one perchance strives for perfection; even among those successful strivers, only one perchance knows Me in essence.

Edited June 12, 2009 by april

[Lucky7Strikes]

[findley]

I do not think you are correct in your interpretation of the Secret of the Golden Flower.

 

The breath, for example... is at most only a means of quieting the mind, for a beginner in meditation. That you have developed any emphasis and technique on the breath, I think contradicts the teachings in the book.

 

-Am I wrong?

[Lucky7Strikes]

I do not think you are correct in your interpretation of the Secret of the Golden Flower.

 

The breath, for example... is at most only a means of quieting the mind, for a beginner in meditation. That you have developed any emphasis and technique on the breath, I think contradicts the teachings in the book.

 

-Am I wrong?

 

I think his breath technique is nothing more than using your intentions to lead the energy up the spine. It's supposed become automatic once your body rewires that way.

 

Not sure what's so different there. .

 

KAP teaches it to run it both ways. For men, it's apparently more invigorating to run it the other way.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[Vajrahridaya]

I think his breath technique is nothing more than using your intentions to lead the energy up the spine. It's supposed become automatic once your body rewires that way.

 

Not sure what's so different there. .

 

KAP teaches it to run it both ways. For men, it's apparently more invigorating to run it the other way.

 

At first you run it up, because generally we are catching it on the bottom three then moving down from that limited level awareness of personhood, sexual and desire, with the upper four knotted, so we bring it up to make aware the subtler elements of one's consciousness, then when opened, from the top down to ground it and center it in the heart where it balances up and down polarities, which is really not as linear as it sounds on paper or diagram. It's really a multi-dimensional thing, or inter-dimensional.

 

For men, it's apparently more invigorating to run it the other way.

 

If you have gotten the upper dimensions opened and you swing it down, it makes it good for attracting ladies because your animal becomes powerful in a positive sense. Also guys like you because you seem Alpha.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Sunya]

Edited August 9, 2009 by mikaelz