Secret of the Golden Flower

[Sunya]

i've read JJ's books, he's a wonderful person with a really interesting story and a good method.

 

with that said, my opinion is that what he awakened with his breathing exercises, as he was trying to become a better jazz saxaphonist it happened spontaneously, were leftover effects stemming from past life accumulations. I do not think that there can be one method for everyone, we each have our own karmas, our own past causes to our present effects For some, awakening this energy really can be as simple as bringing energy up the spine and letting go for the ride. But not for most.

 

I also think, having read Cleary's translation, that its a much deeper technique. Awakening kundalini energy is only on the level of energy, which may be the goal of Wilhelm's translation. Who knows about the original, not me, my chinese sucks, but I feel Cleary is closer.and that his translation is definitely pointing to a deeper realization since it is on the level of mind, and actually goes beyond dualistic mind so its very deep.

 

Turning the light around as per Cleary is about remaining in non-conceptual open and clear awareness, very much like Mahamudra. Cleary explains in the notes exactly where Wilhelm mistranslated certain parts and how that led to a completely different book. Cleary is known as a great translator, and has done many works. not only do I trust his translation more, but I can see intuitively that the methods presented in Cleary's translation are much deeper than Wilhelms and lead to a deeper realization.

 

no offense meant to JJ, his goal seems to be health and balance. and circulating energy is great for that, but for those who have loftier goals, I very much recommend the Cleary translation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, based on this, I think that the Cleary translation makes for a great starting point. I think that it is a meditation to still and pacify the mind, which I think is the first step in Taoist practice, but that it is not a complete guide to Inner Alchemy.

 

 

That's not to say that the Wilhelm is a complete guide either, but it certainly seems more like what I consider Inner Alchemy to be than the Cleary does.

 

By the way, what parts of the method do you think relate to gathering and refining Jing, Qi, and Shen?

 

you seem very attached to what you term Inner Alchemy and view it as necessary, as the only method, to a goal which you've yet to try to conceptualize. It's a good idea to know where you're going. What you say about Cleary's translation as simply a starting point is not true. This practice is not based on the dualistic mind, a practice just to tame thoughts..no.. it goes far beyond that. It goes beyond dualistic mind. It would be helpful to study Buddhism to understand what Clearly's translation is pointing to. It seems far more Buddhist than Taoist to me.

 

You think that refining energies is what needs to be done, what if I told you this refinement is a side-effect of deeper workings and can be avoided? what if I told you that these energies, all of them, are all dependent on Mind? I'm not saying that alchemy isn't good, it is very helpful to speed things up by refining energy, but being active in the process is not necessary. Mind is where it's all at; the beginning and the end. Going beyond dualistic mind is a far deeper practice than refining energies and clearing channels.

Edited August 9, 2009 by mikaelz

[~jK~]

[Magitek]

I read JJ Semples Deciphering the Golden Flower the day I recieved it.

 

Mikelz, what you say is all well, yet have you experienced anything like JJ Semple?

 

Or can you just talk about stillness? Because I can do that all day but its not what I want.

 

Well either way the loftier goals do not appeal to me. Have a think who gave you the loftier goals.... They are probably not yours.

 

JJs book just seems pretty honest and straight-forward to me. A rarity amongst all the cultish bullshit. The books great even if his technique is not repeatable.....

 

There is a part where who goes to see a guru and he talks about his the cracks and pops he had in his head during his kundalini awakening.... The idiot guru says that there are no muscles in the head and everyone laughs at JJ. Obviously that guru is a fraud.

 

I don't care if I would get all the Rolls Royces and groupies in the world, selling out could never satisfy me....

 

People are talking about the technique and saying its about visualising energy going up the back of the spine but he doesn't say that!!!

 

He says first master DEEP abdominal breathing, to the point the abdomen pumps in and out fully and the breath is so silent you cannot hear it..... How many of you are doing that, eh eh? And yet you talk about visualisations!!!!

 

Then apparently when the time comes the breath will be noticed to be going in a direction and when that happens you will be able to change it if you want. No imagining, no visualising, .etc

[hyok]

I was wondering whether anyone has fully delved into Semple's techniques. Any success stories? What do KAP practitioners think.

 

And I came across this bit of information on genital retraction as it is something that is mentioned time to time with MCO practice and/or Kundalini. Taoist Yoga mentions this several times and notes it as one of positive signs. But I highly doubt the penis "shrinks" from lack of use. . That doesn't seem physically possible...

 

If it's true, I guess enlightenment doesn't let you eat the cake. .

 

What do the bums think?

 

According to Gopi Krishna, retention is necessary for the beginning stages of Kundalini transformation, which could be a few months, or until the brain stabilizes from the exposure to excess prana. Krishna further states that the sexual energy turned into psychic energy is the only thing that keeps the brain from going insane. Personally, I think he's right about that.

 

I don't know why JJ had to be celibate for so long. It's quite unfortunate.

[Lucky7Strikes]

According to Gopi Krishna, retention is necessary for the beginning stages of Kundalini transformation, which could be a few months, or until the brain stabilizes from the exposure to excess prana. Krishna further states that the sexual energy turned into psychic energy is the only thing that keeps the brain from going insane. Personally, I think he's right about that.

 

I don't know why JJ had to be celibate for so long. It's quite unfortunate.

 

Yes, I agree.

 

Satiago teaches that screwing is good for both the male and the female energies if it's done right.

 

 

 

 

He says first master DEEP abdominal breathing, to the point the abdomen pumps in and out fully and the breath is so silent you cannot hear it..... How many of you are doing that, eh eh? And yet you talk about visualisations!!!!

 

Then apparently when the time comes the breath will be noticed to be going in a direction and when that happens you will be able to change it if you want. No imagining, no visualising, .etc

 

You're talking about visualizing with the intellect. Visualization, energetic intent, and instinct are all webbed together. Just don't use the analytic mind to visualize.

[Vajrahridaya]

"The Secret of the Golden Flower" is about Kundalini Yoga first and then branches out to Astral Projection by using a sitting form of the Savasana (Pure-empty mind meditation) from India's Yoga.

It is a classic from the Dunhuang caves on the silk road diggings that is at least- 600 years old.

 

Kundalini meditation is best understood by reading Christopher Kilham's small (85 page) book The Five Tibetans - which has nothing to do with Tibet... The Kundalini Meditation chapter begins on page 70 but will need the information from the Chakra chapter - page 15...

 

 

Also, "Play of Consciousness" and "Kundalini: The Evolutionary Energy in Man." and also, "The Sacred Power: A Seeker's Guide to Kundalini". "Heart Drops of Dharmakaya" which is a Buddhist Vajrayana approach.

 

The first one is an autobiography of a Yogi who gets his kundalini awakening through initiation from a wandering renunciate yogi and sets him on his journey and it talks about all sorts of spiritual experiences and wisdoms one can have and the scriptures that talk about it. The second one is an autobiography from the perspective of spontaneous activation and how wild it can be, plus it goes through the chakra system. The third is some personal experience from the Swami having it activated by the person who wrote the first book, and how smooth and beautiful it can be. As well as a scholarly approach as how it is revealed in different traditions around the world under different names which is very, very interesting. Buddhists don't have open to the public books about this for the most part except maybe in "Heart Drops of Dharmakaya" which talks about secret stuff publicly. I have books on the Tibetan style stuff but you have to get transmission from a lineage teacher before you can have access. So the above 4 books are very good and found inexpensively on Amazon.com.

 

 

Yeah, mostly I was just being kind of playful in that last sentence, though it's true.

[Magitek]

And I came across this bit of information on genital retraction as it is something that is mentioned time to time with MCO practice and/or Kundalini. Taoist Yoga mentions this several times and notes it as one of positive signs. But I highly doubt the penis "shrinks" from lack of use. blink.gif . That doesn't seem physically possible...

 

I've never heard that said neither in Taoist Yoga by Luk or JJ Semples book. The way it is worded could give the impression though but I saw through to the real meaning. It just means there is no point getting an erection if you are doing retention. The shrinking talked about in Taoist Yoga just refers to what happens when doing the MCO when one has an erection. It goes back to floppy..... It even suggests when one has an erection to do the MCO. So instead of being aroused which is just tension you relax and turn inwards. It also says how older men can arouse themselves and then practice the MCO and see the results by the penis "shrinking" back to normal. I don't see the point in that one but I'm not an older guy....Maybe I am stupid but MCO just seems like a way of breathing to me.

 

Well whatever, I'll stop there.....

 

You're talking about visualizing with the intellect. Visualization, energetic intent, and instinct are all webbed together. Just don't use the analytic mind to visualize.

 

No I wasn't. Never mind I don't care to debate or be misinterpeted. Maybe some people can read.

 

Anyway lets leave it to April to speak. I want to hear.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Magitek

[Vajrahridaya]

I've never heard that said neither in Taoist Yoga by Luk or JJ Semples book. The way it is worded could give the impression though but I saw through to the real meaning. It just means there is no point getting an erection if you are doing retention. The shrinking talked about in Taoist Yoga just refers to what happens when doing the MCO when one has an erection. It goes back to floppy..... It even suggests when one has an erection to do the MCO. So instead of being aroused which is just tension you relax and turn inwards.

 

My genitals definitely started hugging my lower region after some kundalini work and experiencing and they still do that mostly. They don't fall or drop like in most men. One of my girlfriends was like, "why are your balls like babies balls?" She was into Kundalini yoga so I could tell her that my energy is running up my spine instead of down like in most men. I also get carded a lot when I buy beer. People comment all the time on how young I look for my age, etc. I get comments pretty much every time I go out. I know it's just the fact that my energy mostly runs up instead of down now.

[Magitek]

LOL its a good job you had some kundalini stuff going on, imagine if she asked you that and you weren't!!!!!!!

 

Do you mean that the balls are firm and close to your body in the same way that happens when ballooning (see Dr. Lin, actionlove .etc) ?

 

What about the penis (shaft .etc) does that stay normal for you?

 

I can see why the balls would go up, by surely blood isn't drawn away from the penis? what is the point in that?

 

Either way I want to activate.

 

Cheers.

[Vajrahridaya]

LOL its a good job you had some kundalini stuff going on, imagine if she asked you that and you weren't!!!!!!!

 

Do you mean that the balls are firm and close to your body in the same way that happens when ballooning (see Dr. Lin, actionlove .etc) ?

 

What about the penis (shaft .etc) does that stay normal for you?

 

I can see why the balls would go up, by surely blood isn't drawn away from the penis? what is the point in that?

 

Either way I want to activate.

 

Cheers.

 

Actually, I found that when I started really practicing Kundalini Sex, that holding the power and union with seed retention makes my penis HUGE!! LOL!! Very rigid and hum like a tuning fork. But, one feels the energy through the entire spine and it's integrated with a deep sense of peace and bliss, your body feels translucent. If she's sensitive, so does she and she may even lick blue light from your third eye while sitting in the karmamudra posture. None of this is recommended by me though. This just happened naturally through contemplation during the act.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Lucky7Strikes]

Yeah, mostly I was just being kind of playful in that last sentence, though it's true.

 

Glenn was good enough to just give orgasms through intent. .

 

And Drew apparently just sits in the library and gives everyone orgasms through the third eye. .

 

Dangerous siddhis .

 

About the penis, it's the ballooning effect like Magitek said. Your entire system just completely fills up with energy and doesn't necessarily have to do with Kundalini.

 

The effects of continuously running the MCO is that your natural Yang energy will copulate with the Yin circulation and thereby complete the alchemical union.

 

Vortex's original post was hilarious.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[Sunya]

Well either way the loftier goals do not appeal to me. Have a think who gave you the loftier goals.... They are probably not yours.

 

Magitek,

 

Every goal you are given is not yours since we are all interdependent. There is no such thing as creativity or originality because there is no way to actually create something that was not influenced by others. Interconnection.

 

the loftier goals I speak of are the goals of pre-alchemical Taoism. read Laozi and Chuanzi and then read Cleary's translation of Golden Flower, it's very much in line with original Taoism before people started worrying about converting energies.

 

If you just want to be healthy and live a good life, then yes JJ's writings are great for you. But some people gain a deeper awareness of how the mind works, and see that being healthy and living life just isn't enough, why? because you would still be stuck in dualism and will suffer. If you don't think you suffer, or don't yearn for deeper realization of the subtle truths of life and don't want to experience something beyond this wretched material existence, then yes these loftier goals are not for you.

[Magitek]

Edited August 10, 2009 by Magitek

[~jK~]

Edited August 10, 2009 by ~jK~

[~jK~]

Magitek,

 

Every goal you are given is not yours since we are all interdependent. There is no such thing as creativity or originality because there is no way to actually create something that was not influenced by others. Interconnection.

 

the loftier goals I speak of are the goals of pre-alchemical Taoism. read Laozi and Chuanzi and then read Cleary's translation of Golden Flower, it's very much in line with original Taoism before people started worrying about converting energies.

 

If you just want to be healthy and live a good life, then yes JJ's writings are great for you. But some people gain a deeper awareness of how the mind works, and see that being healthy and living life just isn't enough, why? because you would still be stuck in dualism and will suffer. If you don't think you suffer, or don't yearn for deeper realization of the subtle truths of life and don't want to experience something beyond this wretched material existence, then yes these loftier goals are not for you.

 

The Buddha said: "Meditate and all else will come to you" ... It seems to have worked for him... But what other secrets?

[~jK~]

 

The Buddha said: "Meditate and all else will come to you" ... It seems to have worked for him... But what other secrets?

 

Cleary, Wilhelm & the rest are all good translators - but they are only translators - largely saying the same.

 

The one sentence: "Meditate and all else will come to you" will give you the understanding you need.

 

Before a farmer plants his field, he emptys it for the new growth to be a little more obvious as well as to give it a chance.

 

What I have discovered is that - all that is - is obvious. IF I can slow down long enough to see it.

 

Here is one of my favorite toys:

 

Archetecture says:

"Form follows Function."

But what does this have to do ~

with the price of big monkey poo in a zoo?

What do most buddhist 'monistaries' have in common?

And another:

To see the truth - you cannot follow all the rest And you must read & understand the above.

 

Why the shroud of hidden secrets?

Actually it is not the Davinci Code.

Although - it is a Lot of fun when,

that Chinese guy jumps out and-

shouts: SUPLIZE !

 

 

But if you prefer the other route:

The Jade Emperor Heart Seal Sutra

The three articles for the elixir, are spirit, prana and essence.

 

(~..~)

Edited August 10, 2009 by ~jK~

[Vajrahridaya]

 

The Buddha said: "Meditate and all else will come to you" ... It seems to have worked for him... But what other secrets?

 

No, he taught that absorption alone does not work. One needs Vipassana which utilizes the teaching of dependent origination which integrates the realization of emptiness with every aspect of one's life. Of course, for the Buddha, every moment of life was beyond meditation and non-meditation. Every moment was meditation on transcendent realization. But, if sitting alone could bring complete realization, than we'd all just sit. This alone is not the path though.

[Sunya]

Mikelz,

 

really I have no conflict with you.

 

I'm going to read more taoist stuff, this is where I am being drawn....

 

i have no interest in vice. This is the only way I can explain myself.

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

my friend you are taking what I say personally, I am only having a discussion with you

[~jK~]

No, he taught that absorption alone does not work. One needs Vipassana which utilizes the teaching of dependent origination which integrates the realization of emptiness with every aspect of one's life. Of course, for the Buddha, every moment of life was beyond meditation and non-meditation. Every moment was meditation on transcendent realization. But, if sitting alone could bring complete realization, than we'd all just sit. This alone is not the path though.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Wow - so many extremes of prescriptions for prescriptions.

Is Definitive Complicated or is Complicated Definitive?

Whatever - do what works for you.

The Buddha meditated 7 years.

 

To be honest, I'm as happy as a fat hog in warm mud on a cold day with what meditation has done for me.

The belief system is good for playing with hypothesis - but science is based on the experiences of reality.

 

Speaking of complicated belief systems...

What is this that you posted:

 

"Guru Rinpoche, Buddha of the three times,

Lord of all siddhis who is the one of great bliss,

Dispeller of all obstacles, wrathful tamer of Mara (delusion),

We supplicate you; please grant your blessings.

Grant your blessings that outer, inner

and secret obstacles be pacified"

And that our intentions be spontaneously accomplished.""

Edited August 10, 2009 by ~jK~

[Vajrahridaya]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Wow - so many extremes of prescriptions for prescriptions.

Is Definitive Complicated or is Complicated Definitive?

Whatever - do what works for you.

The Buddha meditated 7 years.

 

To be honest, I'm as happy as a fat hog in warm mud on a cold day with what meditation has done for me.

The belief system is good for playing with hypothesis - but science is based on the experiences of reality.

 

If happiness alone was the path to liberation from unconscious rebirth, then the gods would all be liberated as they live in bliss 24/7 without insight into the nature of their bliss, it's causes and conditions.

 

All these experiences arise dependent upon a cause, even non-conceptual experiences. The Buddha taught that vipassana was absolutely necessary. Not taking away from your joy of meditation, I experience that joy as well. It's wonderful and decreases bad habit energy because one becomes inwardly satisfied.

 

If he thought that alone was the path to realization, then he wouldn't have taught the 8 fold noble path.

 

One needs both meditation and insight which don't necessarily happen at the same time.

 

 

Speaking of complicated belief systems...

What is this that you posted:

 

"Guru Rinpoche, Buddha of the three times,

Lord of all siddhis who is the one of great bliss,

Dispeller of all obstacles, wrathful tamer of Mara (delusion),

We supplicate you; please grant your blessings.

Grant your blessings that outer, inner

and secret obstacles be pacified"

And that our intentions be spontaneously accomplished.""

 

 

If you can't see complexity and simplicity simultaneously. Then you haven't even truly seen simplicity as simplicity is. They are not different... the complex is simple. Simple is the true quality of the complex. There is no omniscience of the true nature of things without that realization. The cosmos is quite complex in all it's way's of flowing.

 

Guru Rinpoche means precious teacher. But in this case is referring to Padmasambhava. Who brought Vajrayana to Tibet in the 900's. Siddhi's are super natural powers, and a Buddha has them all, including the power of liberation. this is called great bliss. His teachings dispel all obstacles, both inner and outer, as in psychological and physical. Mara is a representation of the state of delusion, or attachment and craving. The Buddha vowed to influence beings eternally, so we ask that he influence us and grant us guidance as blessing. Secret obstacles are ones that we are not aware of but are there none-the-less. The Mahayana intention is that one attains enlightenment for the sake of all beings.

 

It's not complicated at all really. It's not for me at least.

 

I don't feel that the Buddha taught that enlightenment was a state of no thought, or a state of bliss. Bliss is a side effect and a quality of liberation, but is not liberation itself. Insight is, or prajna. Thought or no-thought, it's all the same and equally empty of inherent existence. It's all relative.

Edited August 10, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[~jK~]

If happiness alone was the path to liberation from unconscious rebirth, then the gods would all be liberated as they live in bliss 24/7 without insight into the nature of their bliss, it's causes and conditions.

 

All these experiences arise dependent upon a cause, even non-conceptual experiences. The Buddha taught that vipassana was absolutely necessary. Not taking away from your joy of meditation, I experience that joy as well. It's wonderful and decreases bad habit energy because one becomes inwardly satisfied.

 

If he thought that alone was the path to realization, then he wouldn't have taught the 8 fold noble path.

 

One needs both meditation and insight which don't necessarily happen at the same time.

If you can't see complexity and simplicity simultaneously. Then you haven't even truly seen simplicity as simplicity is. They are not different... the complex is simple. The Simple is the true quality of the complex.

 

Guru Rinpoche means precious teacher. But in this case is referring to Padmasambhava. Who brought Vajrayana to Tibet in the 900's. Siddhi's are super natural powers, and a Buddha has them all, including the power of liberation. this is called great bliss. His teachings dispel all obstacles, both inner and outer, as in psychological and physical. Mara is a representation of the state of delusion, or attachment and craving. The Buddha vowed to influence beings eternally, so we ask that he influence us and grant us guidance as blessing. Secret obstacles are ones that we are not aware of but are there none-the-less. The Mahayana intention is that one attains enlightenment for the sake of all beings.

 

It's not complicated at all really. It's not for me at least.

 

I don't feel that the Buddha taught that enlightenment was a state of no thought, or a state of bliss. Bliss is a side effect and a quality of liberation, but is not liberation itself. Insight is, or prajna. Thought or no-thought, it's all the same and equally empty of inherent existence. It's all relative.

 

 

Of course it is not complicated for you. As you define - you create more complications untill it is a forrest unending - which - infinity cannot have a path to escape. To begin understanding - one must rise above the trees.

 

On the point of Enlightenment - in Chinese: Mein Bak: means understanding. Literal translation: I see the sun and moon as white. or I see the sun and moon clearly. Sun & moon are the symbols of Yin & Yang which is the symbol for Tao. Tao in Chinese means path/road/way.

The word god is substituted for nature as in: The God of Gravity - or - The Nature of gravity.

Once loosing the concept of god - seeing nature becomes the Way of the Tao .

[Vajrahridaya]

Once loosing the concept of god - seeing nature becomes the Way of the Tao .

 

That's interesting. I like that.

 

Realization of the nature of the 10,000 things is very simple, but doesn't dismiss the existence of these 10,000,000,0000000000000000000000000000000000 add infinitum things.

 

Integration of the birds eye view with the endless tree's is absolutely necessary. Head in the clouds, feet on the ground.

[Magitek]

my friend you are taking what I say personally, I am only having a discussion with you

 

Fine OK. Talk away.

 

I just do not see how awakening the kundalini is shallow. I cannot see any other "way".

 

April, pipe up!!

Edited August 10, 2009 by Magitek

[Vajrahridaya]

Fine OK. Talk away.

 

I just do not see how awakening the kundalini is shallow. I cannot see any other "way".

 

April, pipe up!!

 

It's only shallow if you think that the barrage of experiences that occur when illumination happens is a kind of divine source, or essential nature of all things that is taking control of you, that you are releasing too. When really it is just the light of your own awareness illuminating one's closet and karmic baggage, both positive and negative. If this has been done through a transmission it is merely the light of someone else penetrating your light and waking yours up.

 

Here's an interesting quote.

 

 

In Buddhism the prana and shakti energy moving through the body are called the winds. Buddhist teachings do not focus on manipulating the kundalini shakti and they are not as focused on the unchanging aspect of the chakras, and their objective content ie. the fixed seed syllables and their corresponding bija mantras and gods and goddesses, which one finds in the Hindu Yoga system. The Buddhist system is more focused on the functions of the energy centers and that which flows through them."ie. , with the transformation of the cosmic or nature-energies into spiritual potentialities." In Buddhism the "seed mantras or primordial sounds" are associated with the continuous flow of energies and their interactions. The Buddha in his great wisdom taught his students to focus on, and work with the "prajna", the wisdom of the heart, because the wisdom of non-dual awareness tempers and brings harmony to the power of the kundalini shakti.

 

I have found that traditional Tibetan Buddhist monks do not have kundalini related problems and yet the energy is actively moving up the central channel. The Buddhist approach works safely and very effectively to purify the latent unconscious forces, associated with the different chakras. When these latent energies, the causes of the blockages and resistance are brought into consciousness and released into the light of awareness, the winds (shakti) will naturally, safely enter the central channel, and rise up the sushumna without the need for willful manipulation. The webs between the chakras dissipate in a natural way and this allows for illumination of the different levels of consciousness associated with the chakras.

 

One of the beginning practices in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition is called shinay or tranquility meditation and it helps us train the mind to become more focused, and calm so we can experience true tranquility and openness of the mind. This makes the mind a more effective tool for the next level of meditation called lhaktong or insight meditation. Insight meditation involves acknowledging and uprooting the neurotic patterns and repressed emotions which cloud our true nature, allowing us to rest in the union of clarity and absolute awareness. There are many other Buddhist practices for purification and the development of greater love, compassion, and wisdom.

 

The traditional Buddhist approach works safely, efficiently and effectively to dispel the neurotic patterns, the illusions, the latent unconscious forces that create resistance to the flow of the kundalini shakti in the sushumna and the prana in the chakras and meridians. One learns very effective practical information and tools for accepting the physical, emotional and mental experiences, our fears and anxieties, as they arise and how to stop reacting to them. This brings detachment and freedom from our "stuff" and interestingly enough the problem with kundalini subsides. When you increase your understanding and awareness of the true cause of suffering, and then take appropriate, skillful action, you will gradually become free of illusion, the causal origin or source of suffering, and also free of your kundalini related symptoms.

 

Buddhism in America is changing, just as it has adapted to every country to which it has spread. American Buddhist practitioners come from many diverse cultural, religious, spiritual and non-spiritual backgrounds. We have psychological and emotional problems unique to our society. When the Dalai Lama first heard about how many people in America suffer from low or no self esteem he was very surprised, apparently this was not a problem in Tibetan culture. A growing number of American practitioners, who have already been involved with Kundalini Yoga Tantric practices or New Age approaches to working with the subtle energies, are moving into the Tibetan Buddhist tradition with kundalini related problems. The highly trained and traditional Tibetan Tantric masters may have little or no personal experience with the many kundalini associated problems, that have manifested for American practitioners. However, I have found that, from my personal kundalini experience and my experience from working with "kundalini sufferers," that the basic teachings of the Buddha are still one of the most effective ways for working with kundalini aggravated suffering. One does not have to be a Buddhist to benefit from the Buddha's teachings.

Edited August 10, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[hyok]

At least this thread was good while it lasted.