Secret of the Golden Flower

[Guest allan]

"Circulating the light" …would that be a quote from the Wilhelm version, allan? The correct and precise term is "turn the light around". The adept who coined the phrase lived over two thousand years ago. The light is NOT circulated in any way shape or form. It is immaterial essence of awareness. You do not turn it around either: it is you reversing your orientation relative to the essence of consciousness itself. NOTHING IS CIRCULATED.

 

One is never to employ hope. Period. Ever. Practice is not about hope. I'm afraid you have missed the entire point of this meditation. It may be possible that you are not quite ready to effect the teaching yet. Meditation, per se, has nothing to do with realization, much less taking over creation to embody enlightening being in ordinary situations. Meditation is a temporary expedient to train the errant ego-reflective mentality that it is not the focus or identity of the self— meditation is not a method to attain something.

 

The Golden Flower teaching is one's own living quality partaking of the potential embedded in creation itself to adapt to conditions without cloying involvement in karmic momentum. It is not a matter of being enlightened. Sudden realization is only an indication of one's present harmony with unborn selfless essential aware nature. This is not a method for attaining transcendent experience. This is employing the transcendent itself as one's own presence unbeknownst to anyone.

 

I suggest you actually study my post, dear. Your questions seem redundant and out of place considering what I wrote.

 

Which translator "showed ignorance"?

 

What is misleading, and how did you avoid being misled in this case?

 

Such a kind comment by Rainbowvein and such a clarity is not easily come by, I might add, allan.

 

 

 

 

ed note: change "embodying" to "embody", in the 3rd paragraph

 

 

Many have come onto this forum to claim great achievements from practising what is taught in the Secret of the Golden Flower. You are not the first and certainly will not be the last. It gets tiring to put each of such claims to rest, after awhile.

 

Therefore I will make it as simple and easy as possible for members to understand what is taught or not taught in this Daoist text.

 

People asked, ‘How is the Light circulated?’

 

The Light circulates together with the Qi.

 

‘How is Qi circulated?’

 

The Qi is circulated through meditation.

 

‘Why is the Light not seen during meditation?’

 

There are many reasons for the inability to see the Light:

 

Ancestor Lu DongBin, the author of the Secret of the Golden Flower text, had assumed readers already know how to still their heart (Daoists directly taught by Daoist Celestial Immortals initially practise that). Meditation using the backward flow method is required to empty the mind. Both Laozi and the Buddha had taught that. (Refer to the TTC and the Sutras)

 

Cleary seemed to have claimed that contemplation is the main teaching in the text probably because of his Buddhist training. While contemplation as practised by Confucians and by Chan Buddhists as indicated by Lu DongBin is required to crystallize or ‘fix’ the Light, it is not the main teaching in this Daoist text. Only with the backward flow method and a still heart, the practitioner will be able to see the Light; and if he or she is still unable to, start to contemplate to crystallize the Light.

 

Besides that, just reading and practising what is written in the text is insufficient to take anyone no matter how brilliant or diligent to reach good aptitude in neidan practice. The confirmations of good aptitude are indicated in the text – which are important signposts of the Way.

 

When the neidan practitioner can empty the mind and still the heart, he or she is practising the Return as indicated by Laozi in his Tao Te Ching written for Guan Yinshi – who was the first to mention ‘The Circulation of the Light’.

 

So if you do not know how to really empty the mind and still the heart please refrain from making false claims of good aptitude or great achievements on this forum so that members will not be misled.

 

Regards

 

allan

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

wait what? see the light? Nah, I doubt that's what I saw seems similar though, but I didn't stop my heart

I merely slowed my breathing for about 30 minutes until i was roughly between 2 breaths per minute and 1 BPM.

I then contemplated the idea of pure invisible light and eventually came to shards and beams and waves and fractals of light in a complexity i cannot begin to describe except as being an infinite scale of all forms of geometry in one single piece, yet without form.

As it kind of "flickered" to a vision of my perspective of my room where i sat... except my eyes were closed.

Opening of them was disorienting.

[Cheshire Cat]

Once, I thought to be able to understand this text in his entirety.

But now I admit my ignorance.

 

But I dare to ask:

Since there is an entire chapter on confirmatory experiences both in Cleary's and Willhelm's versions, then who had experiences is the man who practiced the correct method of immortality.

Am I right?

 

Who had these experiences ?

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[Jetsun]

I read the old Jung version many years ago and didn't think that much about it, but the Thomas Cleary version I read yesterday and it feels far more profound, it could be that it is just fitting into my own existing understanding but it fits more into the Buddhist perspective on things which feels more correct to me,. My interpretation of turning the light around is to turn the direction of consciousness around towards the source, and by doing this you don't end up fixated on any centre or any part of the body rather you are looking and listening to find the root of the mind, which is essentially ungraspable. I wouldn't advise using this technique to become fixated on the upper Dan Tien or anywhere else, I have heard this can have negative health affects.

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[joeblast]

interesting. the method I use for fixing the spirit at the seat of awareness is rather opposite - powerful effects on meditation, which downstream there are positive health benefits. although...I've never seen wilhelm's translation and I gave my cleary book to my sis'n'law. so basically the methods I learned from were YMAA material, red phoenix from max, and material like taoist yoga, foundations of int alchemy (wang mu) etc...

[joeblast]

Hm...well, I couldnt call 'holding attention' and 'fixing awareness' congruent concepts. I can liken it to 'withdrawing the senses' in that by fixing the awareness at the midbrain, it is sorta inducing an inhibitory resonance about the 12 cranial nerves. It is part and parcel of sense-attenuation methods, if the senses are in an excitatory phase then this counteracts the inhibitory phenomenon produced by the awareness-fixing. Perhaps it is possible that "since I've already learned this technique" by the rote method of having done much of the breathwork beforehand then it makes it easier for me to sit and attune the focus more readily and without counteracting effects taking place (too much )

 

It is sort of...comparing your awareness to a lamp, and the midbrain location is a pillar upon which you place the light - letting it shine, not shining it at anything in particular. In a sense, you are the lamp. Basically this method combined with the smoothing out of the breath mechanics and letting go of the air passageways, at least for me, directly leads to the "longevity breathing phenomena" that manifest when I get sufficiently deep into meditation - the pervasive quiet, short transitional phase of feeling like a balloon as the nerves begin to drop their firing below the threshold of firing-energy, disassociation from the body, etc. That's partly where the rote-practice becomes indispensable, because through that route you develop superlative muscle memory that allows you to further relegate the breath mechanics into the subconscious - by the rote practice method, you are reprogramming the subconscious to take on the streamlined and harmonious mechanics that are well net energy positive and that helps fuel the meditation.

 

What negative effects have you experienced, and how does the way you practiced it differ?

[joeblast]

joeblast - can you reproduce this (cranial nerve silence) meditation effect in your daily activities/the mundane world?

To a certain extent, yes, to anything close to meditation, no. Its seemingly a different balance-phenomenon, in a manner of speaking. I certainly dont have this cultivated to the point where I can continuously employ it, though - I was still ready to hurl profanities at this block headed moron lady I was on the phone with for 2 hours this morning because she just couldnt grasp simple things like how to spell arthur, or that when I gave her options for support later or support elsewhere when she said she had to go, she just kept expressing frustration that I wasnt able to wave a magic wand and fix her gd computer.

 

oh right, we're cultivating mindful awareness now

 

 

Well, to be honest I don't know if I can directly compare what I was doing with what you do. I simply focused my attention at the point of the udt. This had the effect over a few days of praxis of increasing the pressure in my head, with the feeling of blood pressure rising. It also left my head feeling very "swimmy". The bum I spoke with indicated that what I had been doing, which I understand may not be what was being advised/may have been a misinterpretation on my part, can lead to qigong psychosis, increase in blood pressure, and other symptoms consistent with my experience.

Basically it sounds like you're trying WAY too hard! That was why in some of my recent posts when talking about this, I mentioned that it does not take the tensing of a single muscle to make this happen - in fact, tensing anywhere is not good, especially tension in the head like furrowing your brow or focusing too hard on the third eye or midbrain. You dont want to cause any increased pressure or anything of that sort. I made the analogy to a lantern to try an illustrate this, because light is....'lite' and not hard, dense, forceful. I can increase those pressures in my head at will - so think of what you do for that - and do the opposite, but still with that centering focus.

[adept]

After reading the Cleary version it's quite obvious that the 'method', if it can be called that, has nothing whatsoever to do with breathing tecniques, moving energy around the body, visualizations, sitting cross legged etc etc.

It can be taken up by anyone, anywhere, in any situation. In fact, it's a good 'practice' to do when otherwise occupied, such as at work or out walking in nature, drinking tea etc etc. I have tried this and I can honestly say it works.

There are glaring similarities with Japanese Zen master Bankei and his 'abide in the Unborn' teaching, which also didn't adhere to the usual strict ritualized meditation practices which were prevalent in Japanese temples. Bankei brought his Unborn teaching to the masses. From simple illiterate peasant, through the social classes, up to the most learned Buddhist scholars, from all sects.

[deci belle]

Wenshi's turning the light around.

 

Bankei's Unborn ordinary mind.

 

Master Lu's One Hundred Character Tablet's "There is no thing, whom else do you seek?"

 

The deal with energy work is "its something to do"; whereas with there is no thing …this is a daunting prospect, and, unfortunately, this sets off countless people on a dead-end track.

 

The teachers know that at least the student with be "close" with energy-work (as close as teachers are…) But it is working with what is not the same which will never produce the elixir of immortality. How then can students ever enter the path of complete reality by toiling vainly at energy-work.

 

But it is not the fault of teachers. Self-refinement is the student's responsibility.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add "with energy-work", in the penultimate paragraph

Edited December 12, 2012 by deci belle

[Guest allan]

Alas, another lost generation in the West misled by translators and/or ‘masters’ with no integrity.

 

But what does it matter? Since Bodhidharma had indicated that probably only one in a million can self-teach the Return.

[gendao]

To set intention without grasping is a cultivation practice in itself. (At least, that's what I've found.)

The secret to this is...

 

If you are grasping...then you must believe you lack it within yourself.

And if you haven't found it (or more precisely, what "it" psychologically represents to you) within yourself first, then you will not find it outside yourself.

As inside...so outside.

Only once you discover it inside, will its reflection then effortlessly appear on all other levels outside back at you.

So, do not attempt to pull the horse with the cart by grasping (outside).

If you want to change the movie, you must change the film in the can - not out on the screen.

[Cheshire Cat]

Alas, another lost generation in the West misled by translators and/or ‘masters’ with no integrity.

 

But what does it matter? Since Bodhidharma had indicated that probably only one in a million can self-teach the Return.

 

I agree.

 

Please, can you quote this Bodhidarma's saying?

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[adept]

misled by translators and/or ‘masters’ with no integrity.

 

Thomas Cleary has produced some wonderful translations of Taoist and Buddhist texts.

He has a fantastic reputation.

The thing is, he's not just a translator/author. He's a practitioner also and has spent decades cultivating.

So, I wouldn't say he has no integrity, nor is he misleading anyone. In fact it is the Wilhelm text that is way off the mark, and Jung's commentary is even more so.

[deci belle]

I suppose it would be impossible to reconcile the differences between the two volumes.

 

Cleary isn't shooting in the dark, allan. He is actually a "voice" for those who would keep the knowledge alive. Jung actually was several thousand years late in the "deep psychology" game and never knew it.

 

Drop your bullshit non-issue soon, hmmmmmm?

 

Actually, I experienced the the opening of the Golden Flower more than a few years before reading the Cleary volume, allan.

 

Seen from the perspective of realization, I don't see any discrepancies in the text of the teaching I read.

 

You must accept the fact that the two translations are from two different documents, the one you prefer was brought out by complete outsiders ignorant of even the rudiments of the Chinese literal contexts in which the teaching is embedded.

 

It is you yourself who have been muddling about for so long clinging to the words of sectarianism.

 

Don't shoot the piano player— shoot yourself and drop the skinbag.

 

 

 

ed note: add second sentence

Edited December 12, 2012 by deci belle

[deci belle]

Someone said "there are always higher levels". I completely agree.

 

No level is the highest level.❤

 

Since Bodhidharma had indicated that probably only one in a million can self-teach the Return.

 

I know, and I didn't have a problem with it. One in a million doean't mean a thing to me.

 

The quote appears in the Bloodstream Sermon and refers to the necessity of finding a teacher:

 

If you don't find a teacher soon, you'll live this life in vain. It's true, you have the buddha-nature. But without the help of a teacher you'll never know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher's help.

 

If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone understands what the buddha meant, that person doesn't need a teacher. Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything tought. But unless you're so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you'll understand.

 

 

 

ed note… add chris' and Bodhidharma's quotes; insert "a" in the penultimate sentence; italicize "No level"

Edited December 13, 2012 by deci belle

[Harmonious Emptiness]

For people following the course of Secret of the Golden Flower, I strongly recommend Cleary's anthology Taoist Meditation.

 

One chapter is entitled "saying of Master Danyang" referring to Ma Danyang, one of Wang Chonyang's students known as the "Seven Immortals."

 

One of these sayings is as follows:

 

Self - Enlightenment

Learning the Way is a matter of self-enlightenment. Failure to realize enlightenment is caused by ignorance.

If you want to break through ignorance, first clean your mind.

This is a matter of purifying and calming it until it is perfectly clear.

When you succeed at this you attain fulfillment. You do not necessarily need to ask another for instruction.

 

People love to over complicate, and also to over-simplify. It's best to listen to the original masters first, imo, so that we do not get halted or mislead on the path. This is sort of like looking at the map first to find the best place to go, rather than just showing up downtown and asking everybody and anybody where to go.. imho.

[deci belle]

Ooooooh!!! new Cleary book!!❤❤ Eeeeeeee!!! i suuuuucha groupie!! hahahhahaha!!

 

 

 

 

ed note: add Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

Edited December 13, 2012 by deci belle

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[joeblast]

Hey, the way I see it, one in a million's pretty good odds. There's well over 6 billion on the planet, right? That would mean six thousand buddhas. If only we were so lucky, heh!

[Aetherous]

Over 7 Billion right meow.

[deci belle]

Turning the light around from a Pragmatic Dharma perspective without too many esoteric words

 

http://www.buddhistg...light-around-2/

 

chris… turning the light around doesn't use so many words. Let's not intellectualize something that isn't words~ which would be the point of turning the light around in the first place, ie, seeing your nature.

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d