Daoists usually die

[YMWong]

From another thread, where it did not belong:

 

I am sure people want to know, why people can be an immortal without achieving good health. Did he do alot of evil stuff that generate the bad karma which lead to a liver dicease for him? Or did he do anything that lead to this? Everything is cause and effect, karma, which can be explained.

 

Now that's funny.

If 'doing good' and accumulate 'good karma', to use your words, was enough to become immortal <sic> do you think the likes of Mother Theresa - who died of an heart attack - did not do enough good to be raised in Heaven in broad daylight ?

 

haha

 

YM

[Mak_Tin_Si]

First of all, I am saying that by doing good deed and good karma generated will surely lead you to a peaceful death, not any sort of painful method of death. I dod not say taoist be immortal with just doing good karma and good deeds. Are you skipping my point?

 

Mother Theresa die of heart attack with a reason, which I do not know because I don't know her. But who say she become an immortal???

 

Doing good deeds also including "wise" way to do it.. not just do anything you think it is good.

 

 

 

From another thread, where it did not belong:

Now that's funny.

If 'doing good' and accumulate 'good karma', to use your words, was enough to become immortal <sic> do you think the likes of Mother Theresa - who died of an heart attack - did not do enough good to be raised in Heaven in broad daylight ?

 

haha

 

YM

Edited December 13, 2008 by Mak_Tin_Si

[Mal]

Bad deeds are what generate bad karma and lead you to death with illness and disease or any other painful methods. This is what Taoism teach us too.

 

I find it mean and nasty to make the assertion that people who die from a disease caused it themselves via bad deeds. Even if it is true (and perhaps it is) it is just a hurtful thing to say.

 

What merit is there in walking around a hospital ward and telling everyone "it's your own fault you deserve it" It is different if they come to accept that their suffering is caused by their Kama.

 

I work in a hospital and I see people suffering every day, am I to assume I have "better kama" because I'm not sick? Because many of the people I see deserve health more than I do.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

It is not mean or nasty because an issue have no feelings itself, it is only you are the one who is putting a feelings in the issue. This theory is taught by Maang Ji if you know.

 

So I can say you are lucky and did have good karma for now, so you didn't catch any illness. But if you try to do more bad stuff later, you may get sick too. That is who nature works and why people in Taoism is very healthy, because they train well in ethics and learn to do good karma to help people.

 

That is the BASIC of taoism already, you shall know.

 

That is why Taoist can explain many things in nature because it is all cause and effect.

 

 

 

 

 

I find it mean and nasty to make the assertion that people who die from a disease caused it themselves via bad deeds. Even if it is true (and perhaps it is) it is just a hurtful thing to say.

 

What merit is there in walking around a hospital ward and telling everyone "it's your own fault you deserve it" It is different if they come to accept that their suffering is caused by their Kama.

 

I work in a hospital and I see people suffering every day, am I to assume I have "better kama" because I'm not sick?

[Mal]

Perhaps I was a bit emotional, but I prefer sciences explanation of how viruses and bacteria work over kama.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

That is also explianable but hard to understand in a post or two. It takes years of personal experience to really know it that way. I wish you all the best in your training of Taoism to find the way of how nature works with karma. I am sure you will enjoy the way.

 

I will share some experience with you later about how people get decease from bad karma. They are just so scientific and explainable.

 

 

 

Perhaps I was a bit emotional, but I prefer sciences explanation of how viruses and bacteria work over kama.

[Ryan T.]

 

 

So I can say you are lucky and did have good karma for now, so you didn't catch any illness. But if you try to do more bad stuff later, you may get sick too. That is who nature works and why people in Taoism is very healthy, because they train well in ethics and learn to do good karma to help people.

 

May or Will? It doesn't seem like it would be both ways.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

You will know when you experience in Taoism enough. Wish you all the best.

 

May or Will? It doesn't seem like it would be both ways.

[Ryan T.]

You will know when you experience in Taoism enough. Wish you all the best.

 

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The most full of shit answer I have seen you post yet!

[Mak_Tin_Si]

This is what I was talking about before, bad mouth create bad luck and bad karma for people. This is an example I was takling about just now. Sorry to dissappoint you, but I do not curse people to get sick.

 

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The most full of shit answer I have seen you post yet!

[Ryan T.]

This is what I was talking about before, bad mouth create bad luck and bad karma for people. This is an example I was takling about just now. Sorry to dissappoint you, but I do not curse people to get sick.

 

No curse was given towards you. I just said you were full of shit with a response like the one you gave above. And were and still are! You can't defend some of things that spill from your IP and so you try to minimize the person asking the question. I said it to you before and I will type it again...Real gold does not fear the fire!

[Mak_Tin_Si]

You have just mistaken my phrase. I said that I do not curse people for sickness.

 

If you tell me to use WILL or MAY, I will use MAY because if I say WILL that means I am cursing him to get sick. Do you understand?

 

Mo Leung Tin Juen

 

No curse was given towards you. I just said you were full of shit with a response like the one you gave above. And were and still are! You can't defend some of things that spill from your IP and so you try to minimize the person asking the question. I said it to you before and I will type it again...Real gold does not fear the fire!

[Ryan T.]

You have just mistaken my phrase. I said that I do not curse people for sickness.

 

If you tell me to use WILL or MAY, I will use MAY because if I say WILL that means I am cursing him to get sick. Do you understand?

 

Mo Leung Tin Juen

 

I mistook nothing. I asked a question. May or Will? You have the opportunity to rephrase as I think you understood what my question was.

[Birch]

This is a very sensitive topic (no kidding sherlock!) so I will try to be careful.

 

I think that 'bad' in the sense of 'morality' very often coincides with actions that will have bad effects (often) on the health of the person, but that it often coincides doesn't make it a cause.

 

Nor does it hold, other than coincidentally (which you can argue on the basis of dependent arising is the same deal, but anyway, I`m not good enough at dogma to beat anyone on that), that 'good' in the sense of morality will have good implications for the person concerned.

 

The counter-example is, I guess, you could beat me to death for holding a dogmatic view that I consider 'good' and that you consider 'bad' but these things are created and acted upon by us people and fully within our control to cease.

 

In the case of Mother Teresa, I wonder if her heart wasn't broken. http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2007/08/moth...al_crisi_1.html (I didn't find some of the commentary on there to be particularly compassionate but I just wanted to find a quick link to it).

 

When I see the TTB discussions about immortality, I sometimes wonder why anyone would want to consciously persist under such conditions. On the other hand, if you change the conditions, then it is absolutely worth pursuing. Well, so far, that's what I've got to believing.

 

Kate

[mwight]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Ching-Yun

 

he still died but lived to an age of 256 years (supposedly)

 

 

I don't believe anything close to physical immortality is possible until we reach a technological singularity.

[Taiji Bum]

Daoists usually die? I'm still alive......

[mwight]

I wonder how many people really think about their own death on a daily basis. Like really sit themselves down and look in the mirror and think, hey I'm just a rotting hunk of meat, and the maggots and vultures are salivating at the thought of my death. Realizing after their death they will be reborn into another world similar to this one after having their memories erased, to repeat the cycle of death and rebirth into infinity until they can find a way out....... maybe thats just me..... sorry for being so morbid...

[Stigweard]

I wonder how many people really think about their own death on a daily basis. Like really sit themselves down and look in the mirror and think, hey I'm just a rotting hunk of meat, and the maggots and vultures are salivating at the thought of my death. Realizing after their death they will be reborn into another world similar to this one after having their memories erased, to repeat the cycle of death and rebirth into infinity until they can find a way out....... maybe thats just me..... sorry for being so morbid...

 

Funnily enough I did just today ... even obsessed over who I should invite to my funeral but then realised that it kinda would be out of my hands

[Mal]

I wonder how many people really think about their own death on a daily basis.

And it can come at any time. I ride a motorbike and vehicle accidents are a huge killer. Every time I take a deep breath and focus. Most people just jump in their cars without a second though...

[shontonga]

I wonder how many people really think about their own death on a daily basis. Like really sit themselves down and look in the mirror and think, hey I'm just a rotting hunk of meat, and the maggots and vultures are salivating at the thought of my death.

 

You, my friend are obviously Not a psychopomp?

Every meditation. Be it emptiness or laying in shavasana.

Every breath, the rest between an inhale or ex,

Is an action of practicing death.

The stillness within the movement

and the movement within the stillness.

Watch the way the water feels

as the currents change with the tide.

Life and Death are only ever practiced together.

No other way.

anyway....

 

"Realizing after their death they will be reborn into another world similar to this one after having their memories erased, to repeat the cycle of death and rebirth into infinity until they can find a way out....... maybe thats just me..... sorry for being so morbid..."

 

This? Yeah, this is just you!

 

Any of you ever have to spend a night or two in a covered pit?

LOL, Give it a try! ...if you don't mind bugs , yuck.

Another great way of practicing such.

[gossamer]

You know the whole thing about Daoists and Immortality.......have you guys ever seen the movie 'Highlander'??

 

I mean everyone that you know and love would die, and there you would be living on and on..........NOPE, not for me, thank you!

 

I've lived a pretty hard life and I'm only 57, the thought of living forever would be a CURSE, if you ask me.

 

I mean, if that's your deal, welcome to it, but have you ever really THOUGHT THIS IMMORTALITY THING OUT?

 

Maybe you should!

 

Peace, gossamer

[宁]

From another thread, where it did not belong:

Now that's funny.

If 'doing good' and accumulate 'good karma', to use your words, was enough to become immortal <sic> do you think the likes of Mother Theresa - who died of an heart attack - did not do enough good to be raised in Heaven in broad daylight ?

 

haha

 

YM

 

I don't know if "my good deed" is another one's "good deed". The moral laws are different in different places.

First we have to find out what good deeds really are.

That definition of immortality... i think it reffers to the fact that the name of the person remains longer in the memory of humanity. For example great kings and rulers... One of the definitions of immortality, that does not necesarelly belong to daoism, most surely not, is that as long as you are remembered by your human fellows, your awareness is still alive, on the other side.

[mat black]

I don't know if "my good deed" is another one's "good deed". The moral laws are different in different places.

First we have to find out what good deeds really are.

Generally, at the moment, we lack the essential wisdom required to define good and bad deeds. That's one of the best reasons why we need to attain wisdom. At the same time, it is also the reason why we usually need a moral/ethical framework from enlightened sages/masters/Buddhas to guide us. The Buddha Dharama is amazingly wonderful in this regard. Those who feel more affinity with daoist teachings can read the Scripture in 49 chapters http://home.comcast.net/~taoistresource/0018.html

 

In the world, most of us are probably at different levels of sensitivity and conviction as to what is a good act and what constitutes a bad act. The worst part about this is that due to ignorance we may be prone to causing harm to ourselves and others, without realising it and without any sense of the implications. Then, in this situation........."the more we fall, the more we tend to fall".

So, at the least, it's best to start from where one is by applying a general standard which avoids causing any deliberate harm or offense to any sentient being.

From there, we can, for our sake and the peace of all the world, gradually improve our standard of conduct to higher and higher levels.

Edited December 13, 2008 by mat black

[YMWong]

Daoists usually die? I'm still alive......

 

See ?

This shows once again you are not a daoist hehe

 

 

YM

[mwight]

You know the whole thing about Daoists and Immortality.......have you guys ever seen the movie 'Highlander'??

 

I mean everyone that you know and love would die, and there you would be living on and on..........NOPE, not for me, thank you!

 

I've lived a pretty hard life and I'm only 57, the thought of living forever would be a CURSE, if you ask me.

 

I mean, if that's your deal, welcome to it, but have you ever really THOUGHT THIS IMMORTALITY THING OUT?

 

Maybe you should!

 

Peace, gossamer

 

some of don't seek physical immortality. I would be ok with eternal nothingness, void or emptiness, as long as I was never reborn again.

 

iMUiwTubYu0

Edited December 13, 2008 by mwight