Long Term, Self Suficent, Commune for Cultivators?

[mwight]

Has anyone here thought about getting a group of people together for the purpose of purchasing a large amount of rural land in Montana or elsewhere that could be turned into a self sufficient commune for cultivators?

 

Wouldn't that be cool? A community of people off grid just growing their own food maybe working part time once a year to get some cash for necessities outside of the commune.

 

Is there anything like this anywhere besides Buddhist monasteries etc?

[Spectrum]

Have you seen "Amongst White Clouds"?

[mwight]

Have you seen "Amongst White Clouds"?

 

no but it sounds cool

[seekeroftruth]

I guess it's sort of what like Stig was talking about.

 

Maybe you could offer retreats just to offset the cost like a lot of buddhist monasteries...

[mwight]

I guess it's sort of what like Stig was talking about.

 

Maybe you could offer retreats just to offset the cost like a lot of buddhist monasteries...

 

oh I thought he was just talking about like a forum or something.... I didn't really read it I guess I should have.

[Stigweard]

oh I thought he was just talking about like a forum or something.... I didn't really read it I guess I should have.

 

 

All good Great minds obviously think alike. Would love to hear your ideas on what you think would be the way to go.

[dao zhen]

Has anyone here thought about getting a group of people together for the purpose of purchasing a large amount of rural land in Montana or elsewhere that could be turned into a self sufficient commune for cultivators?

 

Wouldn't that be cool? A community of people off grid just growing their own food maybe working part time once a year to get some cash for necessities outside of the commune.

 

Is there anything like this anywhere besides Buddhist monasteries etc?

 

Yes.........

 

I am in the process of seeing this dream come true.....

 

But my idea is to do it in China.....

 

I am raising money through our workshops with - http://www.eternalspringtours.com

 

I currently have 3 locations I have found in Wudangshan.

 

I think if you have conections, China can be easier, as the costs are much cheaper.

 

We have thought to get an old farm house community that is already cultivated, then fix it up a bit, to make it more comfortable with a Western standard.

 

My teacher was going to oversee the project, but currently he has gone off to finish his cultivation, and may come back in 3 years or so.

 

But we do have a good portion of the practice methods in the system documented, so there is a very good system of material for the members to practice.

 

Before my teacher left, he taught me much about retreat life, and we hiked in the mountains, and he taught about how to plant what vegetables, and how to preserve them in winter, practice schedule, rules for community, etc.

 

So I am looking to continue this project and dream.

 

The problem with such a project, is it can not be a large group of people.

 

We think 3 to 5 members is enough.

 

By my teachers guidelines, the retreat training should be at least 3 years, but usually 9 - 12 years.

 

During that time, you should have no contact with the outside world, and just live like a simple farmer, and follow the daily practice methods.

 

If people make proper progress, there is a stage when they will go into a hybernation state, and at that time we should have the underground room.

 

The member goes into the underground room to further the practice, and another member must have the task to care for their safety and wellbeing to protect the body from disturbance, noise, etc.

 

The main concern is money.

 

I am looking now to set up a foundation in addition to our workshop events to further this dream.

 

It is a very serious endevor.

 

Danger and death are a real possibility in serious longterm practice.

 

By looking at the history of these arts, many adepts have died midway in practice.

 

This is due to the attachment and moving of mind-will during practice.

 

So we must in the first stages gain stillness of mind, and tranquility of heart, and no attachment to desires.

 

This is for serious practice.

 

Ideas?

 

I have also recently made good connections with an agent in Beijing, and they can provide longterm residence visa to members.

 

I hope to have a location picked by 2009 - I already have one in Wudang, but need to negotiate the price.

 

I also am looking to perhaps check out Zhongnanshan....

 

The location in Wudang is outside the tourism zone, so it is not under control of the government, and the land is privately owned.

[exorcist_1699]

I think such group should be :

 

1) limited to 3- 4 persons; too big a group is difficult to keep itself , and alsol draw unnecesaary attention .

 

2) Their level of Taoist theory and practices are nearly the same , ie they know the steps and

its potential dangers.They have common goal to accomplish within a time span , not a hippie life .

 

3) Most of them have settled their earthly affairs / responsibility .

 

4) There is a fixed year plan to succeed the goal , if not , dissolved . No group can gather forever .

Edited December 14, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[mwight]

All good Great minds obviously think alike. Would love to hear your ideas on what you think would be the way to go.

 

I think buying 50-100 acres somewhere out in the middle of Montana would be the way to go. It might get weird and tricky if you mix families, kids and religion though, you don't want to be labeled a cult and have imperial storm troopers come kill everyone to protect the safety of the children. LOL

 

I think its best not to have any structured religious element associated like no religious leader or figure or anything like that.

 

The costs of building and setting up such a community would be astronomical, so I'm not really sure how to handle that.

 

maybe all the participants could sell donuts for a "charity" on the weekends, you know at traffic lights in their home town. I see a lot of those going on, and they make a lot of money for their cause. If it was for a sustainable community I am sure that sounds charitable enough.

Edited December 14, 2008 by mwight

[dao zhen]

I think such group should be :

 

1) limited to 3- 4 persons; too big a group is difficult to keep itself , and alsol draw unnecesaary attention .

 

2) Their level of Taoist theory and practices are nearly the same , ie they know the steps and

its potential dangers.They have common goal to accomplish within a time span , not a hippie life .

 

3) Most of them have settled their earthly affairs / responsibility .

 

4) There is a fixed year plan to succeed the goal , if not , dissolved . No group can gather forever .

 

Yes, I agree.

 

We are thinking that it is perhaps best with just 3 members.

 

Too many people and it makes trouble with the local government.

 

My teacher would most likely also visit at times; but now he is in a cave in the remote mountains.

 

It was taught that men and women shopuld be seperate, due to the nature of attraction, etc.

 

I think the time frame can differ depending on ones Heavenly Attributes they are born with;

generally we think 9 - 12 years is a good time.

 

I think if a member does want to leave in the middle of the course of practice, it is their freedom, but they can not rejoin later.

 

Yes, all members have to be serious in their goal to practice Alchemy Meditation.

 

We are seeking to gain our liberation, and uncover our True Nature from practice.

 

Yet in the first stages, we need companions, and can support each others practice.

 

There will be a very strict time schedule, and rules to create the proper environment for serious practice.

 

We must have some rules, to make sure it is a quiet environment.

 

In addition to the meditation practice, there must be some farming activity for the first year or perhaps two.

 

From my teachers experience and method, it is said that after perhaps 3 - 6 months of following the practice in retreat - doing the practice 9 or more hours per day - very little food is needed - but we must also be practical, and prepare stores of food, and have a good farm area for vegetables.

 

I am very serious to pursue this goal, as from my experience the problem is environment.

 

You must have a remote and quiet place in nature to take part in the serious long term practice.

 

We feel we will have enough money to support all costs for the project;

though members are welcome to donate funds if they join to show their sincere feeling in support of this effort we are making.

 

Would you be interested in joining this goal and shared dream?

[ZenStatic]

Have you seen "Amongst White Clouds"?

 

I would very much love to see this movie, but I find it hard to justify $30 for it if I don't even know how it will be. I tend to only buy DVD's that I know have a replay value for me.

[exorcist_1699]

The success of Taoist cultivation is said to be dependent on 4 factors:

 

1)Whether you know the method and ways well (法) : for example, whether you know the stop of releasing jing will come earlier or later than stop of ordinary breathing ;what phenomena will arise when pre-heavenly qi come to you...etc.

 

2) Fortune or wealth (財) : There are two explanations:

 

a) It refers to whether you have enough money to support a living of 3-4 years jobless but concentrating

on Taoist cultivation .

b)Another explanation seems to refer to how old/how much jing you get when coming across the Tao. Old guys with little jing and spiritual power will find them difficult to believe and culminate energy to have some big leaps forwards .

 

3) Partner (侶) : It is divided into internal and external partners. External partners are Taoist friends who safeguard each other during this period of cultivation.

 

4)Place(地) : This is the topic , together with partners, we talk here.

 

Factor 1) is said to be the most important, then follows factor 2)...

 

You can also find that these factors are related to personal karma. For example, I am entangled by an old member of my family that within 2- 3 years of time , I can't retreat and leave the city (Hong Kong) although I know most of the steps...

Edited December 14, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Trunk]

Tons of info about this sort of thing at the Intentional Communities Website (ic.org).

[Franklin]

dao zhen

 

that sounds interesting

what is the goal of your cultivation system?

i ask since your teacher went to finish his cultivation and will come back in a couple years

 

is it dragon gate or wudang?

 

your website says you will be documenting dao cultivation practices in china

will you release some resources to the english speaking world?

 

if i would have known about your cultivation retreats several years ago while i was living in taiwan

i would have probably made it to one...

 

i wish you luck in your endeavor

 

 

 

more general-

it seems like if a piece of land was bought

it could be set up so that various levels of cultivation could take place

a public offering of retreats

residents who take care of the day to day stuff

farming, building, running retreats, etc and cultivating

and allowing space and resources for small number of people to undertake serious cultivation efforts

 

it could also be many different practices together within the larger community

i remember reading one of Alexandra David-Neal's books where she described the

working of the Tibetan monasteries as a sort of melting pot

where people were not required to practice any certain thing

but were free to study with any teacher that would take them as a student

 

this idea sort of reminds me of eselen

but with more resident programs

and maybe a toned down offering of public seminars and retreats

(eselen has multiple retreats running all year round - like 2 or 3 at the same time)

 

the other option would be what dao zhen mentions as 3-5 people dedicate resources

and do it themselves

but this way it seems there will be little or no interaction with the rest of the world...

 

china seems like a nice place to start something like this but one draw back might be change

as in changing laws and policies and local areas

it would be a shame to be 6 years into some serious cultivation and have to move

for one reason or another...

 

 

anyways

just some thoughts

Franklin

[dao zhen]

The success of Taoist cultivation is said to be dependent on 4 factors:

 

1)Whether you know the method and ways well (法) : for example, whether you know the stop of releasing jing will come earlier or later than stop of ordinary breathing ;what phenomena will arise when pre-heavenly qi come to you...etc.

 

2) Fortune or wealth (財) : There are two explanations:

 

a) It refers to whether you have enough money to support a living of 3-4 years jobless but concentrating

on Taoist cultivation .

b)Another explanation seems to refer to how old/how much jing you get when coming across the Tao. Old guys with little jing and spiritual power will find them difficult to believe and culminate energy to have some big leaps forwards .

 

3) Partner (侶) : It is divided into internal and external partners. External partners are Taoist friends who safeguard each other during this period of cultivation.

 

4)Place(地) : This is the topic , together with partners, we talk here.

 

Factor 1) is said to be the most important, then follows factor 2)...

 

You can also find that these factors are related to personal karma. For example, I am entangled by an old member of my family that within 2- 3 years of time , I can't retreat and leave the city (Hong Kong) although I know most of the steps...

 

Yes, I agree with you.

 

My teacher said the same thing to me in his teachings - only he used slightly different words -

 

1. A set of secrets---a decisive factor for success in your pursuit of Tao -

Without the method of practice, you can have no chance of success.

 

2.Money - you need some food and clothes and residence when you begin your silent exercise, because in reality your corporeality hasn't been thoroughly purged of.

 

3. Partners - The process of disciplining your heart, for the practitioners, is the monotonous practice at beginning, still more for the common people. From now and then to be encouraged and get more morale will consolidate your resolution and strengthen you more confidences. On other side, during the process there will be many crises waiting for you to go through, and so the assistance from the comrade is necessary or even indispensable.

 

4. An Appropriate Site -

The house you reside in should hold aloof from war, fighting or upheaval, and should be away from the intersections. For the easy availability of provision being somewhat near the town or city is ideal. The more silent and isolated the better. A cave carved half way down the cliff is the best place for some saints. Yet at first you should not be obliged to meet these conditions because to let your heart remain free from all rambling thoughts and continue to be still is the most important thing. Generally speaking, the house in the depth of a forest while the necessities are adequate and no other matters to harass your heart is ideal.

 

I hope to have things ready in 1.5 to 2 years - regarding the house, and the funds for the long term practice.

 

A difficult factor is to find proper practice partners.

 

They should be honest, trustworthy, sincere and pure.

 

People with a very strong will-power, to face such a task, and continue through to the end.

[松永道]

 

I also am looking to perhaps check out Zhongnanshan....

 

 

Pick Zhongnanshan! It's beautiful and right near me. I would really like to help set the place up, farm, and that sort of stuff - though I'm not interested in cutting myself off from civilization yet, I could help be your bridge between worlds.

[Pero]

I would very much love to see this movie, but I find it hard to justify $30 for it if I don't even know how it will be. I tend to only buy DVD's that I know have a replay value for me.

 

Maybe you can try finding and watching it online first. There are now many sites which use streaming video, more or less anyway hehe. For example watch-movies.net.

[Pietro]

Has anyone here thought about getting a group of people together for the purpose of purchasing a large amount of rural land in Montana or elsewhere that could be turned into a self sufficient commune for cultivators?

 

Wouldn't that be cool? A community of people off grid just growing their own food maybe working part time once a year to get some cash for necessities outside of the commune.

 

Is there anything like this anywhere besides Buddhist monasteries etc?

 

 

I am on my way to Portugal.

I am just starting a 5 years post doc at Coimbra university.

The land over there is very cheap respect to European standards, and in some places can be both secluded and practical if you are still working in the world.

 

I have observed that there are two type of retreats. The first type is where everybody is practicing the same thing. Like Dao Zhen plan, for example. TO do this you need to have enough people to be interested, all sharing the same path, and the same teacher.

 

What I want to build is different. More akin to an open house for taoists practitioners. I like the saying, if you come you will not be turned away, if you leave, we will not ask you to remain.

 

I am right now in the process of discussing about an old house next to a village. The house has about half an hectar of land. Some of it is the side of a hill. It has a well, and a stream.

 

It is an old house, in the sense that it is perfect... if you are ok in living as they would live 200 years ago. FOr now, there is no hot water. A fire place in the kitchen. And that's all. I expect to renovate it, and make it a bit less spartane. For example I am thinking about not even having Internet!

 

Once I have bought it I will look for people who want to come and share the dream, the space, the practice and the work. I am an instructor both according to Mantak Chia and to Bruce Frantzis, so if anyone who lives there wants me to share some of the practices I will be happy to do so (and viceversa). But I am NOT looking to build yet another community who survives out of workshops.

 

I will keep my daily job in town. At least for the next 5 years.

But whoever wants to come and share will be welcome.

[hyok]

If in the U.S., it's going to be all about money. 100 acres in Montana will run from half a mil. to a couple million depending on location. I don't know any practitioners with that kinda money, and ideally it should be run by 2 or 3 people with one being the money source so final decisions can be made.

 

I like Pietro's idea of it being an open-house of sorts, but If i won the lottery tomorrow, I would create a sanctuary that functions on multiple levels. Not just purely for Taoist practitioners, but a place for traveling minds, wanderers(not transients) and lost souls where one can gain isolation, friendship if need be and definitely education. Just thinking about a top-notch library makes me want to jing my pants.

Edited December 14, 2008 by hyok

[Stigweard]

Good call Trunk

 

Tons of info about this sort of thing at the Intentional Communities Website (ic.org).

[exorcist_1699]

Regarding the dangers in cultivation , one always happens is that your mind is too absorbed ,too deep in mindlessness (samādhi ) that you yourself can't come out of it after weeks even when external dangers arise : a bear comes close , landslide ...etc. If there is no partner , it may be dangerous .

 

You may need your partner to hit a drum beside your ears to call you back .Or, by self-help :

 

The taoist method of self-help is by clasping your finger on certain segment of your other hand's finger so that when qi circulate to that point , you are automatically waked up at the scheduled time. Such kind of thing , in fact, if not being told , people can hardly know .This is the reason why a good teacher is needed .

 

This is the reason why in-depth knowledge of TCM is needed. Like many TCM and acupuncture doctors , we should know the time-table of qi circulating in our body well .

Edited December 15, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[tumoessence]

Isn't there a community of Taoists in Moscow Idaho? They advertise in the back of EMpty Vessel Magazine in the classified as offering retreat facilities. Anybody have experience with them?

Bill

[Pietro]

I like Pietro's idea of it being an open-house of sorts, but If i won the lottery tomorrow, I would create a sanctuary that functions on multiple levels. Not just purely for Taoist practitioners, but a place for traveling minds, wanderers(not transients) and lost souls where one can gain isolation, friendship if need be and definitely education. Just thinking about a top-notch library makes me want to jing my pants.

 

And I like very much yours. Can you describe it better, so maybe I can start playing with it, and maybe realise it?

I was also thinking about advertising on the couch surfing network.

I also like the idea to have a house that is so essential that I don't fear anyone will steal anything.

A bit of a problem with the computer. But I need a computer as long as I have a daily job, and I have an office as long as I have a day job too.

 

Also, although it is going to be an open house, and I don't want to charge any rent or similar, I do expect people to contribute. Either by helping in the house or helping with the house, or however they themselves will suggest.

 

I think the question: "How do you expect to contribute?" can be made quite directly. People are generally quite honest in wanting to contribute, and we all have a sense when we are being taken advantage of, when we are taking advantage of, and when it is fair.

 

I want to make it fun, and relaxed, and open. And also a place were true cultivation is possible, as well as it is possible to enjoy the silence.

[mewtwo]

I will edit this post if there is any way that this info can be used against my friend. But my friend owns some land out in South Dakota iin size it is about a square mile. I will talk to him about this. Now if there is any way this info can be used in a bad way against my friend please tell me. I dont want anything to happen to him.

 

 

 

 

My only other thing about this is if we do do this I would like to work in some zen things like retreats into this.

[mewtwo]

Sorry to double post but I was wondering what would a person need to do something like this? Also i have kind of changed my mind if we do do this i would also like to have a taoist priest along with the zen priest around.