Question about spirituality and scientific testing

[Stigweard]

Re: Healers/ Physicians

You are oh-so-correct. There is an intense shortage of quality qigong teachers and healers. More need to step up to the plate. More physicians need to look at this MUCH closer; but if YOU were a physician and read all the non-sense (as well as the truths) posted in this thread would you have the slightest interest in qigong? Honestly? Or would you come away with the feeling that qigong healing was not nearly as important as some idiot being able to start a fire to dazzle his friends and SHOW what he can do? Honestly? OK, pretend you have never heard of qigong or qigong healing, you are a trained in western medicine physician and re-read the thread and tell me what you honestly think.

I also invite anyone else here to re-read the thread with that in mind and post your thoughts.

Now, is it any wonder that medical qigong has been so slow to get established with western physicians?

 

Re: Placebo

In the example you give of course it could be placebo IF THE PATIENT BELIEVED it would heal. The only way this could be ruled out would be a double blind, placebo controlled, crossover study.

 

You and I are definately going fishing together!

[h.uriahr]

Re: Healers/ Physicians

You are oh-so-correct. There is an intense shortage of quality qigong teachers and healers. More need to step up to the plate. More physicians need to look at this MUCH closer; but if YOU were a physician and read all the non-sense (as well as the truths) posted in this thread would you have the slightest interest in qigong? Honestly? Or would you come away with the feeling that qigong healing was not nearly as important as some idiot being able to start a fire to dazzle his friends and SHOW what he can do? Honestly? OK, pretend you have never heard of qigong or qigong healing, you are a trained in western medicine physician and re-read the thread and tell me what you honestly think.

I also invite anyone else here to re-read the thread with that in mind and post your thoughts.

Now, is it any wonder that medical qigong has been so slow to get established with western physicians?

 

Re: Placebo

In the example you give of course it could be placebo IF THE PATIENT BELIEVED it would heal. The only way this could be ruled out would be a double blind, placebo controlled, crossover study.

(apologies to our Chinese friends for the following spelling and/or improper usage)

 

One day in Hubei province in China Chen Ling looked up at his young girlfriend and said, "Nee Hun Piao Liang".

Then Jim Sanderford of Bonjour Texas mumbles something whole dozing on the porch. His wife of 60 years said, "What did you say? That sounded like a foreign language."

Jim replied, "I said you are very pretty".

 

The last place I would go if I had a mere interest is a forum. What you seem to keep missing is the fact that by using pyrogenesis you are doing something internally to make that happen and unless you personally can do pyrogenesis then you have no idea whatsoever as to whether the practitioner has any gain from performing it. You call it showing off but is it not good practice, or is it not healthy physically for the person? You can spit out your little analogies all day long and make it appear as though you can or cant do something but you slipped up and spilled the beans. If you dont know what's going on internally all you can do is speculate and call it SHOW. What video were you speaking about earlier when you said you could project qi like in the video??????

[Ya Mu]

The last place I would go if I had a mere interest is a forum. What you seem to keep missing is the fact that by using pyrogenesis you are doing something internally to make that happen and unless you personally can do pyrogenesis then you have no idea whatsoever as to whether the practitioner has any gain from performing it. You call it showing off but is it not good practice, or is it not healthy physically for the person? You can spit out your little analogies all day long and make it appear as though you can or cant do something but you slipped up and spilled the beans. If you dont know what's going on internally all you can do is speculate and call it SHOW. What video were you speaking about earlier when you said you could project qi like in the video??????

 

Re: ALL the nonsense and illogical conclusions

Yang Wei, a young man, was leaving home and his father asked where he was going.

Jon Buch, a 70 year old Jamaican, was walking down the road, and all of a sudden uttered, "I jus be goin down de road, mon."

 

Re: Video

I was referring to a project I am currently working on for medical qigong education. It is a work in progress and has not been released.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Ya Mu

[h.uriahr]

Ok ok ok ok ok....look how about this....how about IF someone goes around OPENLY shouting or displaying an ability like an ass ( which is what Stig basically said) then arent they basically obligated? I think so. If I could do the things like John Chang can then I would say I'm obligated to be tested. I do think John had good intentions with his video but others I think are doing it falsely in hopes for monatary gain. If I were to be an extremely humbled master like Buddha, Christ or even on a lesser level like John then I certainly wouldnt be parading around throwing fire at everything and skipping on water, etc. I do think that maybe for those without faith, testing should be allowed because as I recall (JUST AN EXAMPLE PEOPLE) Christ allowed someone to touch his wounds after his resurrection.

 

 

However, if someone is mending mortal wounds with thoughts or touch then testing is an insult and they would hopefully teach openly. When I say mending, I mean blatently obvious healing that's an impossible act ( Under normal day to day western world circumstances).

 

The down side to testing is that a person who can do all of the above things, once tested by some off the wall scientist, and it catches media attention, if they happen to be in a country with a corrupt government then the government will obviously want more info and maybe even kidnap and restrain the person because you know aswell as I do that some would want the power and try and use it militarily. I know this is going way off but if you CAN mend bones and you CAN start fire and you CAN walk on water, etc etc, then it could certainly be possible for someone to become bulletproof or to even be able to project qi with the lethality of a firearm, etc.

[Seth Ananda]

Prove it? Ok:

 

CHUCK NORRIS!

[Moonbar]

HEY HEY HEY!!

 

Now i know we are discussing the topic of PROOF here but c'mon... SHOW SOME RESPECT!!

 

Chuck Norris is in a totally different league - The Chuckster does not have to prove anything

 

Anyway he would destroy any testing equipment just by looking at it......... so there

[de_paradise]

Edited December 19, 2008 by de_paradise

[genmaicha]

If I'm not mistaken there's a video floating around where four qigong doctors place hands on a patient with a tumor and they make it disappear in a matter of seconds. You can view the tumor via ultrasound, as it is happening.

 

Do you have a link to that video?

[Yuen Biao]

Yuen Biao, thankyou for your kind words

 

I say those things to demonstrate to people the complete BS that floats about with regard to these subjects - I could have used more colourful language that would have been a better reflection of how i felt

 

The subject of this thread is "PROVE IT" stop talking & demonstrate it

 

My apologies, I did have my reservations about posting the word 'imbecile'.

Your posts seemed very negative considering you are one who practises!

 

I too know there is a plentiful amount of BS flying around on this subject and that the martial arts world is full of charlatans, equally there are many great practitioners too.

 

But seriously you can cite scientific proof and actual results but others have posted why this is not easy. Personally I think the subject is so intangible that the nature of Qi is so difficult to prove. How difficult is it to find a 'real' Qigong master to 'show' his skills?

 

Furthermore, aren't the articles contained on Qigong Institute enough information, you are obviously well aware of the benefits of internal arts as you said you do follow some form of training.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Yuen Biao

[Moonbar]

No need to apologise Yuen Baio

 

But since we are here - I offer you my apologies too

 

My mouth sometimes runs away on me & i upset good people like yourself

 

Yes there is plenty of good documentation regarding studies into Chi Gung & such & ill continue to trawl through them.

 

Hopefully one day i will cross paths with someone who can show me what i wish to experience first hand - here with me, right in front of me ... & while i write this it does sound selfish-even to me.... but the desire is still there.

 

& as far as my own personal practice goes ... I have spent many years chasing something i briefly experienced as a young man - with the 20yrs ive been seeking... ive only had 3 glimpses

 

I guess this is the source of my frustration

 

Take care & have a good one

[h.uriahr]

Do you have a link to that video?

 

 

similar but not the one I was talkin about.

[Stigweard]

[Ya Mu]

[Seth Ananda]

This is what is taught in medical qigong in the hospitals of China. In High Level medical qigong, We use INTENT, which is the quantum equivalent of intention, to make the healing occur. So, in order to do wei qi liao fa (healing with external energy), we set our INTENT, then project the qi. Most patients feel it when we set the INTENT, not when we "start" the projection.

Interesting. I did Zhineng chigung for a while, I think it called Chi Lel in the states and they had china's largest hospitable dedicated to only using Chi gung and chi healing. the Chinese Government had given them a Milatary base with 8000 beds to use and they hada 96% sucsess rate curing almost impossible conditions.

This was of course before the FalunGong fiasco

The teacher had ultra sound videos of tumors being blasted away and the interview with the old lady who accidently cut off her finger and then put it back on by holding it in place and chi breathing through it till it conected. They didnt believe her so X rayed her hand and saw the knit line but also that she hadnt put it back on straight so were convinced it had happened.

 

No peacefull newage music when they do their healings. they point hands and emit whils shouting "HEAL! HEAL! HEAL!..." Its full on to watch.

 

Seth

[Ya Mu]

...

The teacher had ultra sound videos of tumors being blasted away and the interview with the old lady who accidently cut off her finger and then put it back on by holding it in place and chi breathing through it till it conected. They didnt believe her so X rayed her hand and saw the knit line but also that she hadnt put it back on straight so were convinced it had happened.

 

Seth

 

Good example.

 

I had this to happen once when I got my finger caught in a plotter. It was just about 1/4 attached. I went to my teacher who put me on his table and put my finger in a glass of aloe juice with ice. He then proceeded to project qi Taoist Medicine style through the neurological pathways through the finger for about an hour or a little longer.

The pain subsided immediately and the finger was fine the next day.

 

There are truly amazing techniques.

[genmaicha]

 

similar but not the one I was talkin about.

 

 

Thank you very much.

[h.uriahr]

Thank you very much.

 

You are very welcome