Best way to enlightenment

[RongzomFan]

Actually absolutely yes.

Edited January 3, 2010 by alwayson

[Pero]

I wish it were true, but unfortunatelly it's not. And it's not clear to me why you jumped from talking about 1st bhumi to dzogchen?

[Smile]

I haven't realized there are so many enlightened beings on this forum.

All I thought they were a bunch of really nice people.

Bows...

Edited December 16, 2008 by Smile

[RongzomFan]

lol

Edited January 3, 2010 by alwayson

[Pero]

I haven't realized there are so many enlightened beings on this forum.

All I thought they were a bunch really nice people.

Bows...

 

Do you include me in the nice department? I try not to be so nice, but maybe I should try harder.

[Aetherous]

I've only had a glimpse.

 

<- unenlightened.

[Pero]

...

I am not saying that to be mean, but if you deny the fact that our awareness is literally a Buddha, ...

 

Well I don't think it's mean because it's true, on both accounts. But, what you say is still not really true. It's no different than saying everyone is already a Buddha, which in a way is true, but not really.

 

I've only had a glimpse.

 

<- unenlightened.

Hm yes well, it seems to me you started posting some insightful posts in the past few weeks. But maybe you always have and I just don't remember or was too stupid to notice.

 

Actually out of curiousity I was meaning to ask you what you started practicing?

[Wayfarer64]

It would seem that there may be many WAYS to find a state of being that could be discribed as enlightened...and just as many ways to lose one's way even after finding a certain amount of bliss and insight...

 

It seems as if there is alwys a state of being that we have a chance of awakening to - any moment can bring Satory and just as quickly our state of being can lose that insight and allow for callow thoughts and inane activity to regrow...

 

I am pretty sure there is not just one way just as I'm pretty sure that the moon actually moves the oceans of the earth back and forth...

 

We tend to absorb and allow many elements to enter our lives/selves/bodies/

souls/spirits/karmas/ and thinking - manifesting wisdom and an enlightened perspective has many paths for attainment...

 

why make it harder on ourselves with bad vibes and rancor?- because we are human and that is our burden and our joy-

 

to transcend the downward motivations of sorry-ass elements and use the uplifting elements takes training and directed intent for most of us... but the instruments and teachings may vary as to be counter-productive to eachother - so be mindful of the tools you choose -

 

My thing is harmony, it sooths me and tenders peace and happiness, it is simple as a tune being hummed- and mellow as milk & honey being sipped-

 

love to all- Pat

[Unconditioned]

Exactly! Enlightenment is not a destination, it is the process and I don't think it ends... Even after escaping rebirth, there will still be learning and growing to occur in the next dimension. and whatever we avoid here we will take with us and have to work on in the ethers! So, just relax, be real and enjoy.

 

Unconditioned agrees (I like that 3rd person thing ) that the idea of enlightenment is not enlightenment. Growth occurs constantly. It's the dancing Shiva, if you will, of the universe. It's also my impression of why a circle is used in may traditions symbolically of a shape that has no beginning or end.

 

The only thing that I contest is that there is no accumulating or eliminating of knowledge in any dimension (aka no learning or unlearning just being aware of what is there). On a superficial level sure, we are storing images in our memory and accumulating experiences/knowledge but if you look deeply you'll find that we're not adding or taking away anything with our knowledge we're just flowing down the river of time/accumulation. Once we sit on the shore we can watch what all that is - the short version, once you see the whole there is nothing to add or take away.

 

So, this conditioned being thinks that enlightenment is simply realizing what life/reality really is at it's core and being THAT without conflict/division. And the unwalked path to get there only has one traveler, you.

 

I haven't realized there are so many enlightened beings on this forum.

All I thought they were a bunch of really nice people.

Bows...

 

We're all very good at describing what's on the menu but I think I hear a lot of grumbling tummies =)

[三江源]

Love People.

 

Dont go on about 'yourself' and be identified with the stories of your life.

 

Be pure of intention and kind.

 

Laugh and be childlike.

 

Eat a nice lot of peas.

 

Shake yo'self about and meditate.

 

Do chi kung.

[mYTHmAKER]

Love People.

 

Don't forget us animals

[Trash Filter]

This is a difficult one.

 

We must firstly accept the fact that is likely none of us here have attained total enlightenment. Bear that in mind, as we all give opinions.

And what can be really difficult to understand, is the fact that "enlightenment" means different things for different people.

 

Is it a state of mind? Is it living life in virtue? Is it knowing all truth? Is it understanding of the self, to produce Siddha like powers? Is it all these things?

 

And trying to ask what is the best way, is even more difficult. Again this will vary for each individual.

 

Be aware it should be quite difficult, and again, useful information strays from what is fed to us in mainstream source...As frustrating it is.

[RongzomFan]

Well I don't think it's mean because it's true, on both accounts. But, what you say is still not really true. It's no different than saying everyone is already a Buddha, which in a way is true, but not really.

 

 

Of course no one on this forum is a Buddha. Everyone's mindstream (not the monkey mind) is already literally a Buddha though.

 

Subtle difference.

Edited December 16, 2008 by alwayson

[Pero]

Mindstream means something like what continues from life to life, so not really. You are mixing stuff. Tolle is not a Buddhist.

[Trash Filter]

It is no surprise that our present modern society and its world power structure is having a great effect upon our spiritual development as people and practitioners. Perhaps more so then the olden times.

The emphasis on logical thought has also removed the focus of the average human, providing more fuel for the fire. This, in turn, has produced a noise that effects us all on many levels, hence stunting our energetic growth like never before. After some thought, I recognize that this thorn must be removed.

 

Loving thy neighbor, sharing the truth, becoming aware/self educating, taking personal responsibility and to be fearless of the bearers of false gifts and broken promises- are some ways in which we can work to something lasting. Even small steps towards these goals, is producing benefit.

 

Know that if you are part of the system, know it for what it is and use it laterally to the world's advantage, hence whatever your real enlightenment it will be an achievable goal.

[RongzomFan]

Mindstream means something like what continues from life to life, so not really. You are mixing stuff. Tolle is not a Buddhist.

 

 

You said it yourself, the mindstream survives life after life. That is exactly what I am talking about.

 

How do you think phowa or liberation in the bardo work?

Edited December 17, 2008 by alwayson

[Pero]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

[RongzomFan]

In the Bardo, you do not have a physical body. You have a dream body.

 

It is just your mindstream, and the dream environment which it creates.

 

If you become lucid, and realize the bardo environment is just your mindstream, you gain the body of a Buddha, and thus attain Buddhahood.

 

In phowa, you eject your mindstream directly into a Buddafield and thus also become liberated.

 

The mindstream is already literally Buddha.

Edited December 17, 2008 by alwayson

[exorcist_1699]

Although attaining certain level of enlightenment is troublesome,even boring , its achievement is proportional to what quality of qi you can get , so the job is inescapable .

 

Taoist masters always describe it as a job of drilling into the nothingness/ emptiness ;It sound likes emptiness having many layers or endless layers, similar to your exploring into an atom, the deeper you enter , the closer you approach the nuclei, the harder effort you have to make yet the greater power or immense power you will get .

 

Or, it is like a mind stripping off its own shackles: first the social and cultural , then the physical body's , then categories of time , space, cause and effect ...( the Zen Buddhist way )

Edited December 18, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Pero]

In the Bardo, you do not have a physical body. You have a dream body.

 

It is just your mindstream, and the dream environment which it creates.

 

If you become lucid, and realize the bardo environment is just your mindstream, you gain the body of a Buddha, and thus attain Buddhahood.

 

In phowa, you eject your mindstream directly into a Buddafield and thus also become liberated.

 

The mindstream is already literally Buddha.

 

I don't think this is correct, but maybe it's just your choice of words.

[RongzomFan]

what is your understanding of liberation in the bardo or phowa?

[Seth Ananda]

In the Tantric View (kashmir Shavite) there are several levels of Enlightenment. But the further levels are just an increase in power and awareness and are not really that important as they are inevitible anyway to someone who has acheived Moksha.

 

The first level is the permanent end of subject object duality. this means that you see the Self in everything you look at and there is only Self seeing Self in joyfull Blissfull awareness. Everything appears as a divine play of the Self including the most horendous experiences. Also Consciousness is clearly visable to itself in everything physical and in its own domain.

The Yogi is free to enjoy all the products of consciousness from Void to Form and neither experience shakes his establishment in the Self that creates Void to Form.

 

In develouping on the way the Yogi will have many experiences of the Self/non dual consciousness and these are mini Enlightenments that erode at the taints carried in the yogi till eventually all Impurity or falsity is burnt from Him or Her.

 

The Further levels are the slow gaining of Omnipotence, Omniscience...

 

May Grace Allow it!

 

The argument that we are already Enlightened in Tantra is complex. From the view of Reality it is true as Consciousness is in us and everything, and is aware of itself always, but is playing at being dual and powerless in us. But from our stand point even our consciousness is only half present and weak and we need Sadhana to regain its nondual - in and as everything status. part of the way we do this though, is by meditating on our Identical qualities with the Supreme which are still present and are found through Intrspection.

 

If you call me Shiva to remind me of my Sadanha, Thanks, but If you call me Shiva and it Feeds my seperate sence of self, just call me Seth please and why are you calling me that anyway, do you need a pat on the back? Oh well, Here you go, " Your pretty cool too dude"

 

Seth.

[Pero]

what is your understanding of liberation in the bardo or phowa?

 

With phowa it's usually meant transference of consciousness (at death) into a pure realm. But there you still have to practice to attain Buddhahood, which I think is not a guarantee either. It's just that in a pure realm the conditions for practice are supposed to be very good.

[h.uriahr]

Stick a fork in an electrical outlet...fastest way to enlightenment.

 

On a serious note, I highly doubt that a TRUELY ENLIGHTENED individual would use a computer. Enlightenment, IMO is physical, emotional, spiritual and mental. Realization is not enlightenment

[Seth Ananda]

Stick a fork in an electrical outlet...fastest way to enlightenment.

Or at least to cure cancer, Like Vajrasatva's teacher. It sounds so crazy I bet it worked. I wish I had seen that.

Seth.