Mak_Tin_Si Posted December 22, 2008 (edited) As requested from the moderator of TaoBum, I have moved to this forum : http://www.daoismworld.com right now.  So if you want to talk to me or ask me anything about Taoism, please feel free to go over to this forum and enjoy the new forum. New members for discussion are also welcomed.  http://www.daoismworld.com  Mak Tin Si Edited January 8, 2009 by Mak_Tin_Si Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jedi777 Posted December 22, 2008 (edited) Edited December 22, 2008 by Jedi777 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mak_Tin_Si Posted December 22, 2008 (edited) As requested from the moderator of TaoBum, I have moved to this forum : http://www.daoismworld.com right now.  So if you want to talk to me or ask me anything about Taoism, please feel free to go over to this forum and enjoy the new forum. New members for discussion are also welcomed.  http://www.daoismworld.com  Mak Tin Si Edited January 8, 2009 by Mak_Tin_Si Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrasattva Posted December 22, 2008 Jedi...  You know I love you & respect you and consider you a true brother.  Your Teacher's Master Padmashambava also ate Beef.  I am also from his lineage aswell through My Lama & Pema Dudal. from that line of my teachers I was told to eat Red Meat.  I was taught to convert the pranas & to also perform Phowa for the animal's essence & also for that of its bloodline. There are practices & mantras & empowerments that are given to be able to do this + frankly if you have a real Tummo you can do this aswell.  I know for a fact that MCKS ate red meat. And he especially liked dennys & at Mc'ds. I have the outmost respect for MCKS. I agree meat can be BAD for you. So can the veggies you get today at your local super market that are LIfeless.   The ancients ate both meat & Vegetables & leafs & bark & roots & teas etc.  The secret is :  Transmutation/Phowa Moderation Periodic Fasting for example 1 to 3 days a week or 30 days a year or more. Also proper exercises & meditations Proper Herbs & Teas  Maktinsi - You are what we call a "pendejo".  Peace  Santiago Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted December 22, 2008 Ya Mu wrote:  In other words I practice Listening. And I stand by what I have seen in clinic for close to 30 years as an energetic practitioner. Some people need some meat in their diet and some don't due to their individual metabolic chemistry. For a person to say that everyone should not eat meat does not take this fact as a contribution to the argument. But I think that everyone that does need some meat should look to more energetic sanitary versions and sources.  Great post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tao99 Posted December 22, 2008 (edited) The sky is square. The grass is round. the beginningless beginning begins. Edited May 7, 2009 by Tao99 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrasattva Posted December 22, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(Mak_Tin_Si @ Dec 22 2008, 08:26 AM) Really? Nice! I am glad that your face actually revealed with some dirty words. Nice Tao you practised. Dude, you are ego tripping. Is this what your teachers have taught you? Since you are in such a damning mood of others, I will join you. You need to get off your HIGH HORSE. You are selling your blood letting techniques and receiving pain from your teachers hands, then you write the unenlightened, unobjective, mundane, ego-ridden hostility based, self-centered, self-promoting, shallow dribble above. This is not the writing of a Tao adept, let alone Tao teacher. This is not the Tao you are selling here. It is to coin your phrase Horse Crap and BS of a BS cult leader in the making. Please don't pretend on here that you are a follower of the Tao, or a Taoist of any sort or kind, for you are an "outsider" with your pain causing practices. You are just a wannabe magician who likes to try to play tricks with energy, like child's toys. Wheeeee I can make a palm mark on someone's back with my hot palm. Yea right, that's really meaningful attainment. If your hot palm has resulted in your writing above then it's all obviously worthless, and not the Tao. Â As for your pain causing practices, the Taoist Master, Cultivator of Realization, has some words for you: Â "Indeed, learning the Tao is a method of comfort; whoever talks about suffering as a part of it, is an outsider." PS Keep your Theory. Keep your Experience. Keep your Practice. The Tao is the True teacher. Â (But what true Tao adept/teacher doesn't know that) Â Tao 99, Â If Mak's way makes you feel right more power to you. I am not an "outsider" nor an "insider' i just am & I surrender to "Source" and allow "Source" to move me. Â When did you learn my methods or those my teachers to make a judgement that its all "Pain causing" etc? Since when is releasing Pain a bad thing? Â Some times you have to "release" pain aswell in the path. Â I guess Nature is also not "Tao" then since Nature also cause Pain as well as Pleasure....What happens to a Bear that swats its prey dead? Or Lion? What happens when there are earth quakes? Tornados? Hurricanes? Volcanic Eruptions? Collision of planets ? Black Holes swallowing Universes in seconds? Â I do not "SELL" I give from the heart that is the difference. Â Peace & May you get many blessings in your life. Â Santiago Edited December 22, 2008 by Vajrasattva Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jedi777 Posted December 23, 2008 Jedi...  You know I love you & respect you and consider you a true brother.  Your Teacher's Master Padmashambava also ate Beef.  I am also from his lineage aswell through My Lama & Pema Dudal. from that line of my teachers I was told to eat Red Meat.  I was taught to convert the pranas & to also perform Phowa for the animal's essence & also for that of its bloodline. There are practices & mantras & empowerments that are given to be able to do this + frankly if you have a real Tummo you can do this aswell.  I know for a fact that MCKS ate red meat. And he especially liked dennys & at Mc'ds. I have the outmost respect for MCKS. I agree meat can be BAD for you. So can the veggies you get today at your local super market that are LIfeless. The ancients ate both meat & Vegetables & leafs & bark & roots & teas etc.  The secret is :  Transmutation/Phowa Moderation Periodic Fasting for example 1 to 3 days a week or 30 days a year or more. Also proper exercises & meditations Proper Herbs & Teas  Maktinsi - You are what we call a "pendejo".  Peace  Santiago Hey Santiago I dont want to go round and round with you on this but MCKS did and does teach that his students of the higher levels of Arhatic yoga must not eat meat. When did you take the higher levels of arhatic yoga? Did you pay the fees for the classes and sit with MCKS in person? Did you learn from MCKS in person at some secret class that he told everyone to eat beef at LOL. Please out of respect for MCKS do not tell people that MCKS ate beef or any meat as a main part of his diet---my wife and I had dinner and lunch with Master Choa countless times over the years and he only had meat to please some of the younger students so they would not feel uncomfortable and he transmuted it and if it was meat it was chicken I know I was there. So If you have meat in you diet and think you need it then so be it. But In the higher levels of Arhatic yoga it is not a good idea to say the least. As Master says follow simple instructions. Take care brother and lets drop this silly debate. Peace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrasattva Posted December 23, 2008 Hey Santiago I dont want to go round and round with you on this but MCKS did and does teach that his students of the higher levels of Arhatic yoga must not eat meat. When did you take the higher levels of arhatic yoga? Did you pay the fees for the classes and sit with MCKS in person? Did you learn from MCKS in person at some secret class that he told everyone to eat beef at LOL. Please out of respect for MCKS do not tell people that MCKS ate beef or any meat as a main part of his diet---my wife and I had dinner and lunch with Master Choa countless times over the years and he only had meat to please some of the younger students so they would not feel uncomfortable and he transmuted it and if it was meat it was chicken I know I was there. So If you have meat in you diet and think you need it then so be it. But In the higher levels of Arhatic yoga it is not a good idea to say the least. As Master says follow simple instructions. Take care brother and lets drop this silly debate. Peace   : ) no problem. I respect your wishes. I mean no disrespect to MCKS.  Research Padmasambhava's diet.  Peace  Santi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dao zhen Posted December 23, 2008 The Mysterious Pass is the great secret in Alchemy Practice.  If you do not know how to open this door, and reside in this place, you can really not gain any high level.  The Mysterious Pass is the "Doorway" in betwen the "Existence" region and the "Non-Existence" region....  non-existence realm >- O -< existence realm  Many ask where is the Mysterious Pass...  In some texts is is talked about in relation to the Yin Tang point....  In fact it lies nowhere in relation to the corporeal body....... and no where in relation to outside the body....  It lies in the place where the Great Unification takes residence....  The Mysterious Pass is always suspended over the vast expance of the heart....  Lying in the very center of heaven and earth.....  It is the doorway between the existence region and the non-existence region....  After a long time of practice, the Primeval Qi will combine with the Primeval Shen........  This shall give rise to the Qi of the Great Unification........  This shall cause some situation to appear where light is flashing - where - inside / outside... you can not be sure....  Most will feel this is "in front of" the Yin Tang area - but also perhaps at Tai Yang area - but at this time, the "corporeal body" is not in contact - the cultivation takes place in the "Dharma Body" in another realm already.....  Perhaps very far from the physical body and existence realm......  Inside and outside may loose any meaning....  There is not so much of a "you" at this stage.....  It may seem like a "Full Moon" is coming and then going - it seems something is unstable - vast array of Purple Clouds appear, and seem to cover it up, then it shall flicker and appear again....  Maybe move up and then down.....  Then move far away and suddenly up close again.....  You keep the practice in this vast black space, and pay no attention at all to the happenings......  Remaining empty, and not allow the mind-will to move and attach to anything or any sights....  When there are Light Rays that seem to be coming from the Mysterious Pass, you naturally gather these Light Rays - it seems to come in through Yin Tang, but there is no body, and "you" are in a vast black space, with no knowledge of where the corporeal body is - and it seems as if the Light Rays become stored in the Lower Dantian.......  At this time, there can also be quite a lot of sweet taste that seems to come in the mouth, etc......  Later at a higher stage, it seems you "enter" this sphere, and the cultivation takes place within this place, for you do not know how long..........  You are a small heaven.......  There is a large heaven......  When the small heaven and the large heaven merge and gain a harmony - the middle place is the appearance of the Mysterious Pass........  It is a deep and profound secret.......  Perhaps almost no one these days have any experience of it, and can not explain anything about it - nor have they gazed apon its mystical beauty and light...........  Like a magical Full Moon in another realm....  Purple Clouds floating here and there.....  Immortals riding on transparent dragons..........  There is another world and realm really.........  But most can not believe in such tales.........  Funny you should post that . . .  Last night I was lying down and thinking about 1mp or 1ma and have also been thinking about this analogy with the voice and the echo recently, too . . .  And then I caught it with the human mind . . . .  Mysterious pass is the space between the voice and the echo.  Between the part that's already cultivated over to the other side and the part that hasn't.  Like software. Or middleware.  ............................................................... J 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Immortal Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) : ) no problem. I respect your wishes. I mean no disrespect to MCKS.  Research Padmasambhava's diet.  Peace  Santi  It is true, Padmasambhava and many tantric cultivators of Tibet are not vegetarian, this is for 2 reasons, 1 because the tantric methods practiced by those monks, nuns, yogis, and yoginis clear massive amounts of karma and 2 in the arid lands of Tibet a vegetarian diet would have been difficult or impossible.  The initiatory practices of Vajrayana called ngondro is to clear karma. Practices like tru sol, nyungne, and chod as well as meditation upon Vajrasattva are used to purify karma to attain enlightenment and siddhis no matter what you eat. But few of us here in the west practice such methods, so a vegetarian diet is highly recommended.  Unless you are constantly practicing rituals and meditations to remove karma it is not advised to eat meat, because killing animals generates bad karma which will make reaching enlightenment and your life harder.  Because we are not killing animals out of necessity, rather out of pleasure. If you live in the harsh lands Tibet (or some place like that) and don't have access to fresh vegetables then you may have no choice but to eat meat, but most of us here in America don't have that problem.  The Buddha did not wish to make vegetarianism a requirement to be Buddhist just in case people who didn't have access to vegetarian food could still cultivate, but the ideal has always been compassion towards ALL sentient beings. Many monks and nuns lived on what ever was offered to them, so they did not have the luxury to turn down food just because it had meat in it.  But few of us in the west live on the street with a begging bowl. If you are a fully initiated practitioner of anuttara tantra, then I think it's okay to eat meat in moderation because of the EXTENSIVE karma purification rituals involved in that tantra, but most of us do not have the dedication or time to practice the highest yoga tantra; after all, who here has done the required 3 year 3 month solitary retreat to call themselves a true tantric yogi?  Eating meat is not something to be indulged in because it brings suffering and pain upon other sentient beings. If you have no other choice but to eat meat because of your situation or health, then by all means do what you must, because killing yourself to maintain an ideal vegetarian diet would slow your progress to enlightenment which is against the teachings of the Buddha.  Most people in the west do not have monetary, locational, or health reasons that would prevent them from adhering to a vegetarian diet, people eat meat because it's a pleasure not a necessity. The Buddha did speak of people suffering in hell because of the addiction to the pleasure of meat eating. What you sow is what you reap, if you want to be born as a factory farm animal in your next life; be my guest, I'd prefer to avoid the pain and eat some beans, raw dairy, and grains to get my protein.  Eating a mostly vegan diet with plenty of raw foods and moderate raw dairy and raw honey is very very healthy. I personally don't believe in a 100% vegan diet because humans are omnivorous by nature; moderate raw milk intake is an excellent way to get animal protein in your diet without killing the animal and generating bad karma.  It's funny people try to justify eating meat by using examples like Padmasambhava, that would be like justifying a 12,000 calorie a day diet for health because that's what Michael Phelps the gold medalist eats. Most people do not do enough exercise to eat that many calories, just like most people do not practice enough purification to eat meat.  Anuttara tantra yogis are like Olympic athletes, unless you train full time like them, you can't live like them. Edited May 28, 2012 by Immortal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted May 28, 2012 If you live in the harsh lands Tibet (or some place like that) and don't have access to fresh vegetables then you may have no choice but to eat meat, but most of us here in America don't have that problem. Â Â What you sow is what you reap, if you want to be born as a factory farm animal in your next life; be my guest, I'd prefer to avoid the pain and eat some beans, raw dairy, and grains to get my protein. Â Â Thats mainly Buddhist teaching isnt it? wasnt the thread on Taoist eating practice? But.. Personally, I dont see much reason to believe ,that if reincarnation is a real thing that happens, that one would only have one life at a time,or that those lives would be lived sequentially in time, and in fact , I could actually be all things ,living all the lives that there is, all at the same time! Â Anyway.. Do as you choose about your food, but humans aren't well adapted to living on grain diets. Grains became predominant with the advent of agriculture because they could be stored,and allowed for greater population densities, archeological evidence suggests that humans were healthier living on meat and wild plants and showed a marked decrease in overall wellbeing when grains became staple. Grain diets subdue the spirit fog the mind and affect development on a hormonal level with chemicals like phyto-estrogen. I look at natural systems and see that one can kill outright or one can kill by depriving another thing of what it needs. If you want to avoid killing things then you have to vacate the earth. I see no ethical superiority in depriving yourself of either the enjoyment or nutrition of meat, and in fact it looks an awful lot like PRIDE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) I think I will take the general world wide scientific stance on the "pain" of plants... there is none. They have no nervous system and no central perceptive organ to process pain. What good would a feeling of pain do a plant anyways? Its not like they can avoid it. You have to understand that feeling pain is an adaptive ability of some creatures, not a universal quality. It allows creatures to avoid things that may cause them death, and thus no further procreation, as procreation is much more difficult in the animal kingdom than in the plant. I think copious studies, observations and reason are much better views than the word of a horse whisperer in a book you are reading. Â science... world wide scientific stance... oh well then you must be correct O MIGHTY SCIENTIFIC ONE! Â have you actually looked at anything regarding trees/plants and electro magnetic responses? and growth patterns ? uno science stuff Edited May 28, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted May 29, 2012 Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! Â Â Â Â Â Well... Someone had to say it. Â And I want one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted May 29, 2012 The Mysterious Pass is the great secret in Alchemy Practice.  If you do not know how to open this door, and reside in this place, you can really not gain any high level.  The Mysterious Pass is the "Doorway" in betwen the "Existence" region and the "Non-Existence" region....  non-existence realm >- O -< existence realm  Many ask where is the Mysterious Pass...  In some texts is is talked about in relation to the Yin Tang point....  In fact it lies nowhere in relation to the corporeal body....... and no where in relation to outside the body....  It lies in the place where the Great Unification takes residence....  The Mysterious Pass is always suspended over the vast expance of the heart....  Lying in the very center of heaven and earth.....  It is the doorway between the existence region and the non-existence region....  After a long time of practice, the Primeval Qi will combine with the Primeval Shen........  This shall give rise to the Qi of the Great Unification........  This shall cause some situation to appear where light is flashing - where - inside / outside... you can not be sure....  Most will feel this is "in front of" the Yin Tang area - but also perhaps at Tai Yang area - but at this time, the "corporeal body" is not in contact - the cultivation takes place in the "Dharma Body" in another realm already.....  Perhaps very far from the physical body and existence realm......  Inside and outside may loose any meaning....  There is not so much of a "you" at this stage.....  It may seem like a "Full Moon" is coming and then going - it seems something is unstable - vast array of Purple Clouds appear, and seem to cover it up, then it shall flicker and appear again....  Maybe move up and then down.....  Then move far away and suddenly up close again.....  You keep the practice in this vast black space, and pay no attention at all to the happenings......  Remaining empty, and not allow the mind-will to move and attach to anything or any sights....  When there are Light Rays that seem to be coming from the Mysterious Pass, you naturally gather these Light Rays - it seems to come in through Yin Tang, but there is no body, and "you" are in a vast black space, with no knowledge of where the corporeal body is - and it seems as if the Light Rays become stored in the Lower Dantian.......  At this time, there can also be quite a lot of sweet taste that seems to come in the mouth, etc......  Later at a higher stage, it seems you "enter" this sphere, and the cultivation takes place within this place, for you do not know how long..........  You are a small heaven.......  There is a large heaven......  When the small heaven and the large heaven merge and gain a harmony - the middle place is the appearance of the Mysterious Pass........  It is a deep and profound secret.......  Perhaps almost no one these days have any experience of it, and can not explain anything about it - nor have they gazed apon its mystical beauty and light...........  Like a magical Full Moon in another realm....  Purple Clouds floating here and there.....  Immortals riding on transparent dragons..........  There is another world and realm really.........  But most can not believe in such tales.........  Nice post, Since Yin Tang is = third eye, I may know of what you are speaking. It seems to be more correlated to projecting from the Yin Tang to and through the pituitary gland, then instead of bringing pre-heavenly chi to you, you go to it. I don't know about it being a secret, but interesting tale. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) The thing about being a vegetarian is this: Â When an animal eats a plants only 10% of the energy in plant that was eaten by the animal is used by the animal. By the same token, when we eat an animal, we use only 10% of the available energy for our body. Â So this means that for us to eat meat, we lose a lot of energy in the process of it, and that wasted energy decreases the earths carrying capacity. To get just 10 grams of nutrients from an animal we had to waste 990 grams of energy. Â 1000 grams of plant energy -> 100 grams of animal energy --> 10 grams of meat energy used. Â That is the case when you eat meat, when you eat plants it looks like this: Â 1000 grams of plant energy -> 100 grams of plant energy used. Â At the same time, I'm not a vegetarian and know some people, especially those who choose foundry/factory physical labor work, may have a hard time finding the amount of proteins they need to perform daily tasks and maintain the muscles required for doing it. Edited May 29, 2012 by Informer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idiot_stimpy Posted May 29, 2012 The Mysterious Pass is the great secret in Alchemy Practice.  If you do not know how to open this door, and reside in this place, you can really not gain any high level.  The Mysterious Pass is the "Doorway" in betwen the "Existence" region and the "Non-Existence" region....  non-existence realm >- O -< existence realm  Many ask where is the Mysterious Pass...  In some texts is is talked about in relation to the Yin Tang point....  In fact it lies nowhere in relation to the corporeal body....... and no where in relation to outside the body....  It lies in the place where the Great Unification takes residence....  The Mysterious Pass is always suspended over the vast expance of the heart....  Lying in the very center of heaven and earth.....  It is the doorway between the existence region and the non-existence region....  After a long time of practice, the Primeval Qi will combine with the Primeval Shen........  This shall give rise to the Qi of the Great Unification........  This shall cause some situation to appear where light is flashing - where - inside / outside... you can not be sure....  Most will feel this is "in front of" the Yin Tang area - but also perhaps at Tai Yang area - but at this time, the "corporeal body" is not in contact - the cultivation takes place in the "Dharma Body" in another realm already.....  Perhaps very far from the physical body and existence realm......  Inside and outside may loose any meaning....  There is not so much of a "you" at this stage.....  It may seem like a "Full Moon" is coming and then going - it seems something is unstable - vast array of Purple Clouds appear, and seem to cover it up, then it shall flicker and appear again....  Maybe move up and then down.....  Then move far away and suddenly up close again.....  You keep the practice in this vast black space, and pay no attention at all to the happenings......  Remaining empty, and not allow the mind-will to move and attach to anything or any sights....  When there are Light Rays that seem to be coming from the Mysterious Pass, you naturally gather these Light Rays - it seems to come in through Yin Tang, but there is no body, and "you" are in a vast black space, with no knowledge of where the corporeal body is - and it seems as if the Light Rays become stored in the Lower Dantian.......  At this time, there can also be quite a lot of sweet taste that seems to come in the mouth, etc......  Later at a higher stage, it seems you "enter" this sphere, and the cultivation takes place within this place, for you do not know how long..........  You are a small heaven.......  There is a large heaven......  When the small heaven and the large heaven merge and gain a harmony - the middle place is the appearance of the Mysterious Pass........  It is a deep and profound secret.......  Perhaps almost no one these days have any experience of it, and can not explain anything about it - nor have they gazed apon its mystical beauty and light...........  Like a magical Full Moon in another realm....  Purple Clouds floating here and there.....  Immortals riding on transparent dragons..........  There is another world and realm really.........  But most can not believe in such tales.........  wow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted May 29, 2012 A Taoist eats whatever is available to eat and only enough to satisfy his hunger. We have incisors for a reason and it's not to tenderize celery. Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial. God you people sound like Peter and Paul arguing about whether or not you should eat pork. Silly that religious beliefs have to pollute Taoist philosophy, just reread the Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu if you really want the answer. Â Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted May 29, 2012 The thing about being a vegetarian is this: Â When an animal eats a plants only 10% of the energy in plant that was eaten by the animal is used by the animal. By the same token, when we eat an animal, we use only 10% of the available energy for our body. Â So this means that for us to eat meat, we lose a lot of energy in the process of it, and that wasted energy decreases the earths carrying capacity. To get just 10 grams of nutrients from an animal we had to waste 990 grams of energy. Â 1000 grams of plant energy -> 100 grams of animal energy --> 10 grams of meat energy used. Â That is the case when you eat meat, when you eat plants it looks like this: Â 1000 grams of plant energy -> 100 grams of plant energy used. Â At the same time, I'm not a vegetarian and know some people, especially those who choose foundry/factory physical labor work, may have a hard time finding the amount of proteins they need to perform daily tasks and maintain the muscles required for doing it. Â Define "waste" in this context, please? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Immortal Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Taoism is about the natural way, and to me there is nothing natural about killing animals. No human naturally enjoys violence against animals, and if you do it's actually a psychological sign of a sociopath. Â When practicing Taoism we are trying to restore our original nature like we had as children, children abhor animal violence! Â In America we keep dogs as pets, but remember in China where Taoism comes from they eat dogs! Would you agree to killing a dog? We all see dogs have personalities, feelings, and emotions; this is true for all animals. I've seen people cry when their dogs die, as human beings our natural instinct is to love animals. We even go as far as to have no kill animal shelters, but if you mention vegetarianism people look at you like a freak. Â I think we believe dogs and cats are better than other animals, well the truth is they are not! All animals are equal. It's a hypocritical double standard to think otherwise. Â As adults we become calloused to the idea of eating meat and killing animals, but children are still innocent and they will be quite upset at the sight of an animal being slaughtered in front of their very own eyes, many of them would scream and cry. Why is this if meat eating is natural? Â I think we can all agree taking children to a vegetable garden is okay, but taking them to a factory farm slaughter house would probably give them nightmares for ages. Â No one in this room would bat an eye lash if I put some raw fruits and veggies into a blender, but I think we would all cringe in disgust to see a live rabbit get chopped up in a blender. Â Humans do not relish and salivate at the sight of internal organs and blood, a matter of fact the sight of blood makes some people sick and can even make them pass out. Â It's easy to go to the store and see nice shiny meat packaged and clean, but if you have the kill the animal with your bare hands it would be a completely different story for most of us. Â If you had to pick would you rather live next to a slaughter house or a vegetable farm? Â My feelings say that I do not feel right to see an animal in pain or suffering, so that's what I go with. If you enjoy killing animals then maybe meat eating is natural for you but the animals screams and blood bother me personally. Â I don't need a bible, the Vedas, or the Tao te ching to see that. Taoism was first developed based on observation, observe a child's unconditioned reaction to culling an animal, and then tell me if it's natural. Â To each their own. Edited May 30, 2012 by Immortal 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Define "waste" in this context, please?  That's easy, anything that isn't utilized by the consumer (The one who eats) falls into the category of waste.  Energy transfer is inefficient because energy is lost while moving from one trophic level to another. This is because  Not the entire organism is consumed or digested. Parts such as rootr, woody stems, bones, scales, feathers etc aren't eaten, and some materials that are such as cellulose cannot be digested. Energy is used up by organisms in each trophic level for movement and transport inside their bodies. Energy is used in respiration and is released from the body of the organism as heat. Energy becomes lost in excretion.   Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_energy_transfer_between_trophic_levels_inefficient#ixzz1wLaDhti2  To sum up, once a producer receives energy from the sun, it is eaten by a primary level consumer and gives around 10% of its energy to the primary level consumer. 90% is lost as heat. This process of ecology happens in an ecosystem all the time. The transfer of energy in an ecosystem is very inefficient, that is why consumers at the top of the food chain must constantly eat a lot of food, because less and less energy is available as we go further into the food chain. http://londonlady.hubpages.com/hub/The-Transfer-of-Energy-in-an-Ecosystem  Edited May 30, 2012 by Informer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Immortal Posted May 30, 2012 In general people who feel spacy or floaty eating a vegetarian diet feel so for 1 main reason and that's because a vegetarian diet is very yin and cooling to the body. Â Just about all vegetables and fruits are very yin, even milk is considered a yin food. Â In TCM eating a vegetarian diet would be considered unbalanced due to the lack of the warming qualities of meat products. Â BUT, you can counter this quite easily by consuming yang tonics which are VERY warming to the body, much more so than meat! Â The supreme yang tonic comes from an animal, but like milk is it collected without killing the animal, it's known as deer antler. Â If you wish to energetically ground your body, deer antler is the way to do it. It has FAR more yang (warming energy) than you could ever get from meat and all without having to kill the deer! Â http://www.dragonherbs.com/prodinfo.asp?number=006 Â Most sexual tonics are very yang and warming to the body, so I'd suggest any vegetarian should look there for more yang energy. Â Living in cold places like Tibet make being vegetarian much harder because of how cold it is there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
