Being helped along the Way

[Starjumper]

Edited December 21, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Aetherous]

Why do you believe everything Lin says, and everything people email to you?

 

If you believe demons will follow you, they will. If you don't, they won't.

[Spirit Ape]

I havent seen Lin on the forum for ages!

[Starjumper]

Why do you believe everything Lin says, and everything people email to you?

 

Why do you ask stupid questions and not address the subject? Because you can and you can't, I know, I know.

 

I don't believe ANYTHING. Belief is the death of wisdom. However I do get feelings about things and I experience a fair amount of synchronicity so I wonder about things sometimes and am looking for some intelligent discussion here on this subject, so keep trying . Hopefully Cat and Freeform and other people with wisdom will help out.

 

If you believe demons will follow you, they will. If you don't, they won't.

 

That sounds like a dumb belief to me, and I think the universe is a little more complicated than that.

 

I haven't seen Lin on the forum for ages!

 

I think he's posted a bit on a different forum under a different name =)

[seadog]

HI SJ,

The problems you face are those which present themselves to anyone who follows the sorcers path.

Perhaps the single biggest hurdle, is that which we define as our world view.

If we construct a dwelling are we prepared then to dwell in it?

Do the sounds of the night haunt us when we are alone,or can we rest?

What is it that truly is troubling our spirit?

What is it we are defending ourselves from and what are we defending?

Under the clear light of truth can there be any shades?

Why do we put off doing what we know should be done?

[rain]

no.

[Aetherous]

Why do you ask stupid questions and not address the subject? Because you can and you can't, I know, I know.

 

Well this is the underlying issue here. Irrational beliefs in demons that are always shifting. First Max is a demon, then he's not. Then you get an email that you're a demon, and you're unsure. Then Sai Baba is a demon, but he also has love so maybe only is involved with demons.

 

If you're so unsure, perhaps there are no demons at all.

 

I don't believe ANYTHING. Belief is the death of wisdom.

 

Well, if you believe those two things, what happened to your wisdom?

 

However I do get feelings about things and I experience a fair amount of synchronicity so I wonder about things sometimes and am looking for some intelligent discussion here on this subject, so keep trying smile.gif . Hopefully Cat and Freeform and other people with wisdom will help out.

 

Well hopefully this has added some intelligence to the discussion about things that don't exist!

 

That sounds like a dumb belief to me, and I think the universe is a little more complicated than that.

 

Perhaps. Not in my experience.

[Starjumper]

HI SJ,

The problems you face are those which present themselves to anyone who follows the sorcerer's path.

Perhaps the single biggest hurdle, is that which we define as our world view.

If we construct a dwelling are we prepared then to dwell in it?

Do the sounds of the night haunt us when we are alone,or can we rest?

What is it that truly is troubling our spirit?

What is it we are defending ourselves from and what are we defending?

Under the clear light of truth can there be any shades?

Why do we put off doing what we know should be done?

 

Excellent questions and very insightful, thank you! I can answer some and have pondered some of them but they are all good ones to hold in mind.

 

I'm wondering, did you know a person called Salty?

 

 

 

no.

 

Hi Rain, what is it you are saying no to? That we don't owe anything to those who grant us their favors of power? I guess that makes sense if you consider that they are there to have their power used.

[freeform]

SJ - would it also be interesting to consider whether it's impossible to cultivate anything without some form of relationship/interaction?

 

I know you tend to de-personalise these things - clever little illusions of the mind - to name something as 'chi' and therefore remove any inherent intelligence or any kind of anthropomorphic 'personality'. When I try to place myself in your world, I come into a world of compartmentalisation. I guess this is partly what you mean by power - the act of removing the spirit from 'chi' and making it into a basic, almost lifeless 'tool' or 'resource' - this is a great act of control, not unlike what most of humanity is doing anyway, but just more purposeful.

 

Why are you now trying to open your heart, SJ?

 

Do you realise you have to give up all your power? all your control?

 

You see - if you really want to open your heart, you have to be prepared to lose everything.

 

When you're chasing power it becomes a problem to have relationships - relationships with nature, with your body spirits, with loved ones, with ancestors, with other masters etc... With power, you have to constantly train and build and protect yourself from losing what you've accumulated.

 

When you're coming from the heart you surrender everything you have. You give up all your (illusion of) power. you have to become an empty vessel for the divine to work through you. Once you're empty enough and your heart is open and sincere in its wish to connect directly to God/Tao, you become like a walking lightning rod and at the perfect opportunity the spiritual lightning strikes you and you shake and convulse, incorporating the high voltage and extreme brightness of the light into your body.

 

At some point the current runs through you constantly - you can't hold or accumulate this current - it's far too big for you to hold - you just let it run through you as it cleans you out in its own intelligent way. You just have to get out of the way of this process.

 

It seems that at this point you start to radiate love and all kinds of karmic 'debts' are settled. Whether through dreams, actual relationships, illnesses, whatever. When you have a powerful current of energy running through you, none of this is a problem, because you're completing processes for you, your past, present and future selves as well as for your ancestors and even for humanity itself... This is very frightening for someone concerned with power, but for someone concerned with Love, this is just part of the process - we are all one and we all want to ascend - and our ability to help that happen is a gift - not a burden.

 

Whoever your teacher is, has been or will be, you have some kind of relationship - and by 'teacher' I mean pretty much anyone or anything - from a falling leaf to your father. The relationship can be a struggle for power or it can be a mutual opening to Love where you help each other evolve and grow spiritually... (To anyone concerned with power this seems sinister - to anyone concerned with Love this will trigger a sense of wonder...)

[WhiteTiger]

(To anyone concerned with power this seems sinister - to anyone concerned with Love this will trigger a sense of wonder...)

 

Very interesting Freeform.

 

I was wondering Freeform do you consider self control a sort of sinister type control?

 

The way I view self control as a way of cultivating lowest levels first then once fully cultivated slowly move to the next part. Self control means to me connecting with reality, and this will give me (or others) the ability to help themselves become more grounded. Do you consider this ability a type of sinister control?

 

Maybe your saying without love, gaining self control is sinister.

Edited December 22, 2008 by WhiteTiger

[freeform]

Very interesting Freeform.

 

I was wondering Freeform do you consider self control a sort of sinister type control?

 

The way I view self control as a way of cultivating lowest levels first then once fully cultivated slowly move to the next part. Self control means to me connecting with reality, and this will give me (or others) the ability to help themselves become more grounded. Do you consider this ability a type of sinister control?

 

Maybe your saying without love, gaining self control is sinister.

 

Great question.

 

Not that I have an answer for you!

 

But lets see what comes of it if I try to explain what comes up for me.

 

To be honest, I've only read a couple of posts of yours and I'm not clear on 'where you're coming from' in terms of control. After all - 'control' is just a word and what you mean by it could be very different. Apart from that I don't know what your path is... There are several ways to go. there is a fantastic post by 'five elements tao' that you could search for that describes two different paths - it can be thought of as 'downwards flow' or 'upwards flow'.

 

My take on the two paths is that one could be thought of as the art of becoming a capacitor and the other can be thought of as the art of becoming a conductor. The capacitor is like a battery - accumulating/building/storing energy and then refining it further and further and further... a conductor's path is simpler - let go of everything that is not needed and become as conductive as possible to allow the energy to move through you as a constant current.

 

The first one in my approximation seems similar to you're talking about - whereby the mind is used to direct awareness - whether through moving inside your body or concentrating on a 'correct' way of thinking...

 

For me any sort of 'control' is contrary to becoming a conductor. I conduct light - the interesting thing about light is its speed (it's very fast! ) anything which is directed from the mind is infinitely slower than the light that's moving through me - so it comes up as a shadow or a sticky 'darkness' that impedes the flow. So instead I let the light lead.

 

In all honesty I don't really know much about anything - I wouldn't like to comment on how suitable different paths are. From what I found - the capacitor-type arts are very difficult - you need to be very careful and precise in everything you do... by choosing the path of control, you now need to control everything - would be hard without a very experienced teacher and to be honest I reckon that at some stage there would need to be a complete surrender of all control.

 

As a conductor it also gets very difficult - we all have a mind that has learnt from a very young age to control everything, to judge, to create stimulus-response patterns and it's very hard to let all that go and to trust this deeper force to work through you - I'm often filled with doubt, forgetting who I am, not knowing what to do - these and many other resistances start coming up from the mind trying to claw back any semblance of control.

 

So... after all that - For me personally, for the path that I'm on, any form of control is contrary to what I'm trying to achieve. ( - "I'm trying to achieve" reeks of control!)

 

Others with their different paths may require a form of control.

 

I feel that especially at this time in history the 'downwards flow', conductor - type paths are slightly more suitable (this is just my current opinion) - many hundreds of years ago the capacitor type arts were more suitable - people had different minds - they were not as cluttered as us - much more space - much more of a connection with nature - the intellect was very different and required further 'development' (individuation)... now the intellect is over-developed and we've lost all our connection to our bodies and nature - I'm now sitting in an office which mirrors the inside of someone's mind - if I go to the park near-by I'll see something that mirrors the big Mind...

 

I think this is the reason that all of a sudden these rather rare downwards flowing/spontaneous/conductor - type systems are coming up into the mainstream. Check out Bradford Keeney for example.

[WhiteTiger]

Both.

 

Both are part of my path.

 

Freeform, you seem to post extremely openly.

 

I don't fully understand the both analogies of the capacitor and the conductor.

 

The "accumulating/building/storing energy and then refining it further and further and further" is my path.

 

But at the same time, "let go of everything that is not needed and become as conductive as possible to allow the energy to move through you as a constant current" is also my path.

 

Yes I know these seem extremely contradictory to each other don't they.

 

Freeform I think you've seen more then enough of my posts to gather more then enough information about me. I mean i made it so darn obvious, although if you payed me no attention that might be a different story.

Edited December 22, 2008 by WhiteTiger

[Starjumper]

Thanks Freeform for all the insights. I'm going to tackle it in bits and pieces.

 

SJ - would it also be interesting to consider whether it's impossible to cultivate anything without some form of relationship/interaction?

 

I know you tend to de-personalise these things - clever little illusions of the mind - to name something as 'chi' and therefore remove any inherent intelligence or any kind of anthropomorphic 'personality'. When I try to place myself in your world, I come into a world of compartmentalisation. I guess this is partly what you mean by power - the act of removing the spirit from 'chi' and making it into a basic, almost lifeless 'tool' or 'resource' - this is a great act of control, not unlike what most of humanity is doing anyway, but just more purposeful.

 

Why are you now trying to open your heart, SJ?

 

I agree there will be relationships caused by cultivating, and part of what I'm working on here is trying to figure out who I'm related to and what they are =) For example, a Taoist nun (named Sister, some here may know of her) asked me to do some long distance healing work on her and so I did. She said it was working well but after a few days of this I felt something negative on her end and then she sent me an email asking me to stop, so I did. Much later I found out that she had felt I was a demon. It could be because I used some bad language on another forum, it could be because she detected my connection to Sai Baba (who appears to be tainted), it could be because I'm on the martial path of chi power and I have inherited my teachers lineage of spirits, and it could be some other things.

 

Anyway, to answer your comments about compartmentalization, I feel that chi is different than spirits, whether they be good or bad spirits, because of this: Chi is something I feel, spirits are some who have talked to me telepathically a few times, and demons I have seen a couple of times. So that is why I think they are different things, chi is something I feel in my body and in others, and spirits I've seen and heard from.

 

Now, as to why I am concerned with power. Power is my path. My teacher said enough times "More power, more power", that is the form of the path. The focus is on cultivating a lot of chi power in our hands and making our aura bigger. In other words it's on the mechanical aspects of chi power, and it's to make us healthy, which makes us happy. It has nothing to do with personal power over others AT ALL.

 

I am aware of love being powerful, and perhaps it can increase chi power.

 

Now I will explain why I'm 'trying' to open my heart: In the beginning and for several years we cultivated a lot of chi power and flow in our bodies, and then we used this to energize our heads. After developing a lot of hand power and generalized body chi power we opened the crown point and focused on it so that large amounts of energy go out the head top in a beam of energy which goes far, and for a long time that was my primary focus. In my mind this provides one with a sort of cosmic consciousness which helps to inform the rest of the path.

 

Later, many years later, I started to work my way downward. (keep in mind that during this whole time I had a lot of chi flow in the body and I can feel hot belly by focusing there and breathing a little bit so wasn't neglecting the body) Next I (with the help of energy work from my practice buddy and #1 student) worked on opening my third eye more and having a lot of chi beam out of that. Later I worked on the throat and so on, working my way down.

 

So that's why I'm working some on opening the heart, it's simply because it's next in line. So far I have energy radiating quite far out from my heart but I think it should open wider than the narrowish beam which goes out my head top.

 

Why are you now trying to open your heart, SJ?

 

Do you realize you have to give up all your power? all your control?

 

I agree with giving up control as it is obvious, however, since my only 'power' focus is chi power it does not apply. There is no reason to 'give up' chi power to open your heart, and it can't be given up in any case. To lose chi power I would need to poison myself and become sick, I guess.

 

You see - if you really want to open your heart, you have to be prepared to lose everything.

 

I already am opening my heart, energetically for now as that is the focus, always on energy. As far as being prepared to lose everything, I don't know if I'm there quite yet but I've been close.

 

I'll work on the rest of it later.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Starjumper7

[freeform]

Do you remember going to the beach as a child?

 

My favourite thing to do was to look through the sand and the rocks and find those pieces of glass that have been warn smooth like a pebble. I used to let the sun shine through them and they looked like velvety jewels in the sun... Then I would throw the jewels, back into the water...

 

And I like to do the same with thoughts and ideas.

 

The fundamental question in the difference between the two is this notion of 'control'.

 

Who is the one controlling?

 

When I direct energy around my body the part of me directing is infinitely more limited than the deepest part of me - the part that is actually closest to the Tao.

 

When I do my spontaneous kunlun practice I connect with the deepest parts of my body, my belly starts to vibrate, and out of that arise spontaneous movements - my legs start shaking, my spine starts rotating or snaking about, sometimes I get into strange postures, sometimes I laugh, make spirals and circles with my arms and wrists, sometimes I do movements that resemble classic qi gong movements... I never know what will happen...

 

I surrender all 'my' control.

 

When I direct energy around my body the part of me directing it and deciding how and where to direct it is infinitely more limited. And frankly, I don't trust it with handling such a sensitive instrument... It's like asking a 10 year old to restore a priceless broken vase.

[.broken.]

Simply wanted to say that this is a great thread. You never fail to write with great clarity Freeform - kudos.

 

SJ, I just heard some lyrics that apply to this:

 

"Fear can stop you loving, love can stop your fear, fear can stop you loving, but it's not always that clear."

 

Two sides of the same coin... expand you heart by learning how to love and by learning how to abolish 'your' fear.

 

Yours humbly,

James

[三江源]

Hello lovely peeps. What an interesting thread.

 

I think I know why the Nun said you are a demon, Steve. It's because you have power and not the connection to your heart, not the love flow. There is a chilliness in that. It gives the ego - and it's whims - too much ascendancy. An ego should not be doing healing, it isnt the place of an ego. It isnt the job of an ego. An ego is not a god.

 

I also had a teacher who used to talk always about 'power'. He was Shaolin Kung Fu trained. And the work I did with him flowered immediately into love, love, love. That was how 'power' came through to me, or through me, or seemed to me. So he would exchange energy with me, for balance. Yin, Yang. Male needs female.

 

Maybe you need some female in your training, Steve. That is what you were looking for, I guess, when you met the baldy headed reki woman.

 

Maybe you need some KwanYin meditation. Ken Cohen has a fabulous one, on his Taoist Meditation tape. Involving the moon. If I remember correctly. Very powerful. ( heh!)

 

About 'owing' spirits... we -ell. It's again to do with love... our children could 'owe' us.. but do we make them feel that, do we want to call in favours, do we want to hold them hostage to what we have given them? Or did we give it freely, with love, and wish them on their way with blessings?

 

 

 

 

.broken. I have been wondering how you are. I love that song. it always gives me pause whenever I hear it.

 

most apt. Happy Christmas.

xxx

[Starjumper]

Edited December 30, 2008 by Starjumper7

[三江源]

Yes, I do think the Kwan Yin meditation would do something for you, because it is lunar and feminine and compassionate. I hope you can find it and practise it.

 

The exchanges that I practised were a sharing of energies in the style you hear of monks and nuns in tibet doing.. but raunchier.

 

I also have had times of experiencing intense craving for the energy of the opposite sex. Sometimes it was excruciating. It was a very palpable and particular need. As I saw it, not meeting that need was me being well and truly sealed in the alchemical vessel and getting utterly cooked. No balance coming from the outside... on and on and on and on, it not coming from the outside.. I craved the balance more and more as it continued to not come. And it didnt come, because I held back, not wanting to get into any 'sticky' situations, not wanting to be overheated and draw anyone into my own heightened drama, I instinctively kept away from everyone but the most competent, charged, and contained. And they are a rare find.

 

As I currently see it, being sealed in that heat allowed a great strength to emerge and a very evolved innner opposite, in other words, a less polarised self. I think it is a blessing to go through the desert alone. Really I do. Though I know it hurts.

[mYTHmAKER]

Starjumper check this out

It gets me in my heart

http://www.circle-of-light.com/Mantras/KuanYin.html

[rain]

Excellent questions and very insightful, thank you! I can answer some and have pondered some of them but they are all good ones to hold in mind.

 

I'm wondering, did you know a person called Salty?

Hi Rain, what is it you are saying no to? That we don't owe anything to those who grant us their favors of power? I guess that makes sense if you consider that they are there to have their power used.

 

who spoke of power?

which petty mind distinguishes between who gives and who gets?

Who is to stop the flow judging the start and endpoints of causality?

Edited January 7, 2009 by rain

[Starjumper]

Yes, I do think the Kwan Yin meditation would do something for you, because it is lunar and feminine and compassionate. I hope you can find it and practise it.

 

Thanks Cat, I found a couple on the web that are similar so I assume it's the same as in the whatsisname's book you mentioned. I've met him but his name is gone at the moment.

 

http://www.purifymind.com/KuanMed.htm

 

http://www.templeofthegoddess.org/PrayerRe...nmeditation.htm

 

I have done extremely little of that kind of visualizing/imaging meditation and am really poor at it, I can rarely see what it is I am supposed to see in my mind's eye. It seems foreign to me but I'll give it a try or two or three or more on your recommendation.

 

The exchanges that I practised were a sharing of energies in the style you hear of monks and nuns in tibet doing.. but raunchier.

 

Sounds like fun, something I want to try someday.

 

I also have had times of experiencing intense craving for the energy of the opposite sex. Sometimes it was excruciating. It was a very palpable and particular need. As I saw it, not meeting that need was me being well and truly sealed in the alchemical vessel and getting utterly cooked. No balance coming from the outside... on and on and on and on, it not coming from the outside.. I craved the balance more and more as it continued to not come. And it didnt come, because I held back, not wanting to get into any 'sticky' situations, not wanting to be overheated and draw anyone into my own heightened drama, I instinctively kept away from everyone but the most competent, charged, and contained. And they are a rare find.

 

Good for you, my problem is, and has been, that I am so impulsive but I also am quite selective. Now that my sensitivities are so different than before I can tune into what I want a little better.

 

As I currently see it, being sealed in that heat allowed a great strength to emerge and a very evolved inner opposite, in other words, a less polarized self. I think it is a blessing to go through the desert alone. Really I do. Though I know it hurts.

 

I understand this and agree about how it rings about more strength. I guess I am doing this on one level, but it's kind of like I've already been in the desert to long and now want some ice cream =)

 

Starjumper check this out

It gets me in my heart

http://www.circle-of-light.com/Mantras/KuanYin.html

 

Thank you Mythmaker. I found it affects my heart strongly too. I really like that chant and music they have there and I saved the website for future reference. My chi kung teacher gave me a really nice print of Kwan Yin which I have framed and put up in my practice room. It is of Kwan Yin dispensing healing herbs, and he gave it to me because I dispense (radiate) healing energy. I do like the paintings on that site too.

 

who spoke of power?

 

I did, and the TTC does, among others.

 

which petty mind distinguishes between who gives and who gets?

 

Well my petty mind, obviously, as well as most shamans and most chi kung masters, as well as my teachers and most anyone who gives or gets anything.

 

Who is to stop the flow judging the start and endpoints of causality?

 

There is no end to that hallway of mirrors.

Edited January 10, 2009 by Starjumper7

[mat black]

Oh, great to see Avalokiteshvara being discussed. Kwan Yin wants to 'help us along the way' (as the thread title goes )

 

Kwan Yin (Avalokiteahvara) is extremelly helpful to us. We just gotta be genuine, have compassionate intentions and sincere motives

One of the descriptions of Kwan Yin is the un-restricted one,

Kwan Yin is inconcievably amazing, has various transformation bodies which accord with an individuals particular needs/afinities.

 

namo maha karunikaya............spreading it everywhere

Edited January 10, 2009 by mat black