The big thankyou offerings -SAAM SUNG

[Mak_Tin_Si]

As requested from the moderator of TaoBum, I have moved to this forum : http://www.daoismworld.com right now.

 

So if you want to talk to me or ask me anything about Taoism, please feel free to go over to this forum and enjoy the new forum. New members for discussion are also welcomed.

 

http://www.daoismworld.com

 

Mak Tin Si

Edited January 8, 2009 by Mak_Tin_Si

[dao zhen]

Dao Zhang Mak Tin Si.

 

I hope you are fine today.

 

Thank you very much for your effort to share on the Tao Bums.

 

Thank you for your many posts and sharing here;

I think many people have learned a lot of good information on Taoism from you.

 

I also like your posts, though wish you wrote the pinyin in Mandarian and not Cantonese; I think most western people learning Taoism or Qigong, learn the mandarian pinyin system.

 

I have a question on this Offering ceremony.

 

I know you are from the ZhengYi branch of Southern Taoism

 

I have learned a little from the Northern QuanZhen branch - very, very little.

 

I have never seen meat and animal used in the offering ceremony in QuanZhen temples, but have not seen so many ceremony.

 

Is it a comon practice to offer animal as an offering for Northern QuanZhen Ceremony, or is it just a ritual practiced by the ZhengYi.

 

I also seem to remember seeing a Southern ZhengYi Ceremony in Lung Hu Shan area, where they killed a live chicken, and used the blood and did many things with a sword and burning Fu.....

 

These sorts of things I have never seen in the Northern QuanZhen branch, and was hoping you could please share your experience and also to talk about the difference in the Northern QuanZhen and Southern ZhengYi and any difference in the manner in which they pray or give offerings.

 

Thank you so much for your time, and to share your experience.

 

With much respect.

 

Sincerely, Dao Zhen

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Hi Dao Zhen,

 

Nice meeting you too. I am not from the Zheng Yi branch but my lineage do have a linkage with the Zheng Yi branch indeed.

 

For the Zheng Yi of Lung Fu Shan nowadays, they are going very crazy and far away from the traditional system, That is why you see people killing chickens for doing any crazy stuff. This is not something in the Taoism system traditionally, it was added on later when people start to see too much horror movies in China. Crazy people. There is a rule call no killing, how can you kill a chicken?

 

The offerings for the altar with the 3 animals are there for most lineage, it was used for mostly Zheng Yi branches as you have said because they do eat meat and they are not required to go on veggie for their whole life, so this is okay for them to put offerings of chick, fish, pork, duck on the altar. For Quan Zhen branch you study, it is REQUIRED for people to go CHU JIA (out of family) and go on veggie when you go into the lineage. That is why you never see much meat on the altar. Becaues the taoist cannot eat them after the ceremonies anyway. So they put fruits.

 

The reason and benefits of putting cooked meats on the altar is also because of the fire energy from cooking can be absorbed from the altar to boost the energy up. Which is called WONG TAAN 旺壇 for the temple. This method was invented by the taoist too and you can use it for ONLY worshipping masters and gods who are okay with meat. For god like GuanYin, you cannot use this method because she is a total veggie god. So for that we give fruits instead and water for purity.

 

Nice meeting you! You really did a great job on the other post about wudang too! nice to have someone with traditional knowledge here to keep people on the right track!

 

I cannot take total veggie myself for my whole life, haha! That is not a choice for me. For the lineage I practise, they only require you to go on veggie on 1st and 15th plus some special dates on the list so that you can pay respect to the masters and also achieve better attunement from the trainings. So we veggie for a purpose on the special days. I know you guys do go on veggie like nothing, but I cannot do it myself, haha! I still enjoy eating meat, but NO BEEF for sure. It is restricted and also banned by the religion. So if you are in ANY taoism branch, if you eat beef, you loose everything you have in the trianing. If you break again, you get kicked out of the lineage too. Very strict rule.

 

Of course most people do not know this because the practise of FA 法 is rarely opened to the public in the west. But it is very special and cool.

 

Fuk Sung Mo Leung Tin Juen

福生無量天尊

 

 

Mak Tin Si

 

 

 

Dao Zhang Mak Tin Si.

 

I hope you are fine today.

 

Thank you very much for your effort to share on the Tao Bums.

 

Thank you for your many posts and sharing here;

I think many people have learned a lot of good information on Taoism from you.

 

I also like your posts, though wish you wrote the pinyin in Mandarian and not Cantonese; I think most western people learning Taoism or Qigong, learn the mandarian pinyin system.

 

I have a question on this Offering ceremony.

 

I know you are from the ZhengYi branch of Southern Taoism

 

I have learned a little from the Northern QuanZhen branch - very, very little.

 

I have never seen meat and animal used in the offering ceremony in QuanZhen temples, but have not seen so many ceremony.

 

Is it a comon practice to offer animal as an offering for Northern QuanZhen Ceremony, or is it just a ritual practiced by the ZhengYi.

 

I also seem to remember seeing a Southern ZhengYi Ceremony in Lung Hu Shan area, where they killed a live chicken, and used the blood and did many things with a sword and burning Fu.....

 

These sorts of things I have never seen in the Northern QuanZhen branch, and was hoping you could please share your experience and also to talk about the difference in the Northern QuanZhen and Southern ZhengYi and any difference in the manner in which they pray or give offerings.

 

Thank you so much for your time, and to share your experience.

 

With much respect.

 

Sincerely, Dao Zhen

[dao zhen]

Dao Zhang.

 

Thank you very much for your sharing about this subject.

 

I have learned very little, and hope to gain more knowledge in the future.

 

Good luck in your teachings and practice.

 

With my sincere respect.

 

Thank you.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Hi Dao Zheng,

 

Same to you too!

 

I know in Quan Zhen branch they do not emphasize on FU much so they do not do much things with the FA 法 trianings. Just like in Wu Dang, they promote more about training like internal arts for 性命雙修. They also have very strict rules (戒律). Which set of rules did you get from your master?

 

 

Mak Tin Si

 

Dao Zhang.

 

Thank you very much for your sharing about this subject.

 

I have learned very little, and hope to gain more knowledge in the future.

 

Good luck in your teachings and practice.

 

With my sincere respect.

 

Thank you.

[dao zhen]

Thank you very much for your letter.

 

My teacher was from the Lung Men Pai Branch of Quan Zhen - Qian Shan Mountain area in Liaoning -

 

But he felt lineage had some limitation, and did not stress lineage or talking about such things.

 

But when I first studied with him, I had to bow down to many gods and shrine in a high mountain temple, in the snow, and strong wind.....

 

It was very painful, and he was so serious that time, it was a little scarey for me.

 

He really stressed the practice of meditation.

 

My teacher has left now to the cave in the deep mountains, and will return in 3 years - but also maybe he will never return.

 

He was a little different compared to most Taoists I have met in China.

 

He almost always just do the meditation, and did not worry much about ceremony and such like, and did not talk much with common conversation.

 

He taught the practice and gave the transmissions.

 

He taught the theory of I-Ching, Yin Yang, 5 Element, Lo Diagram, and many others.

 

He taught these guidelines and precepts through his own example, the way he walked and the way he lived his daily life and not so much with words.

 

Generally they may follow:

 

~ No killing

~No sex misconduct

~No false speech / no false thought / no false heart

~No stealing / no action of dis-harmony

~No drinking

 

Generally he taught that we should gain an inner guidance when we do the practice properly and gain DE.

 

This will serve as a natural moral compass.

 

This internal compass will naturally guide us in life and in action, and we will have proper action that will serve to support the practice.

 

This was real he said.

 

To blindly follow rules, he felt was false.

 

He was a little different from many Traditional Taoists I met in China.

 

I still have much to learn, and am just a student.

 

Thank you for your sharing.

 

With sincere respect.

 

PS. He talked about FU, and also MAGIC WORDS - and said they are very real and important. He said at higher levels in the practice, without the MAGIC WORD, you can not pass some levels. He just did not teach me those subjects yet.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Hi Dao Zhen,

 

 

Great experience you shared! In the five main precepts you have got, yeh you are pretty lucky. Most high level masters in your lineage do have LOTS of rules. That include the LaoZi 27 precepts for the base, then they start to have 108, 300, 1000... Holy cow lots of rules, but that they do it naturally of course. By what I mean to rules is just something you do not do as a Taoist, but you gain that naturally anyway.

 

I have remembered one time I was teaching my student, I said, you will not be eating beef soon, go eat more. She was yelling at me and screaming for complains. So I gave the transmission and attunement to her and said "don't worry, eat eat eat, eat more now". Guess what happen after 2-3weeks?

 

The student came back to me saying, I never eat beef anymore.

 

The student told me that she love eating beef before, but now, after that day of transmission, she never does. She felt the energy passing on to her that day, and as she did the practise for 49days, she just changed alot. Naturally. Now, she have tried eating beef, it makes her stomache sick, and want to vomit! Then one time, she said "no beef please" to the chef, the chef put just abit of beef in the rice, which she don't expect. Then just a sec after she ate it, she felt dizzy. spinning, and then stomach ache for 1 week! Now she do not eat beef, totally trusted about it. haha!

 

Eating beef or not is really naturally inherited by transmission. If you did go through the lineage that teach you the taoism magic and internal arts, you will just change alot after the attunement. Cool.

 

From your writtings, your Teacher seems to be very nice and powerful too! Yet, you did have to put a whole lot of effort to reach him, but that is worth it!

 

I wish you all the best in the training! It doen't matter if he comes back or not, he already did what he is suppose to do for you. You did gained alot. That is also how most of the immortals teach you. They teach you something and leave. So you learn on your own, see how long can you keep it. Then someday, you will get a chance to meet them again, they pass on something to you and leave again. Very seriously done, but your master do care about you alot.

 

When I learn from my master in China, he do not even see us, he just send you something and you can open the altar and communicate with him in your altar and trianings, no telephone, no internet, no nothing. Just pure practise of communicating spiritually by the magic power, which I was introduced how this taoism magic was passed in the old days way before Han dynasty. Very special and mythical.

 

Mo leung tin juen

 

Mak Tin Si

[dao zhen]

Thank you for your letter.

 

Yes, after the training and transmissions, if you break the precepts you get sick.

 

I experienced this a few times also.

 

It becomes natural to follow the precepts, as your "inside" has changed.

 

When you follow the precepts, something good begins to grow stronger and stronger inside.

 

When you break the precepts, this power rebels and it can cause sickness and pain.

 

I think perhaps you are correect.

 

Before he left, he said he could not stay in the polluted world any longer.

 

I many times "feel" my teachers presence in the room, or above me - especially when I practice.

 

Sometimes strange things happen these days - like voice in the early morning - time to practice.

 

The other day, I went to practice in my meditation room, and suddenly the light cord was pulled from the wall, leaving the room in total darkness - it seemed a message to practice also -

 

For a western raised person, at times it is hard to accept this world and reality of magic and mystical happenings.

 

Yet perhaps this is more real than the profane material world.........

 

Could you please share some good advice on this subject to cultivate this connection with my teacher?

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Hi Dao Zhen

 

Good to hear about your practise. I do surely think your master is also those who go into the mountain like mine. Well, for the "words" given before and during practise are confidential, do not tell anyone what they are or else you loose the knowledge and power transmitted by your master. These are teachings your masters gave you. I am not joking!

 

That is also how I got taught too, all via the altar and we also got knowledge such as FU, spells, scriptures, steppings from the masters and god in this kind of simular methods too. That is why I told people I do learn fro immortals and god, but they do not understand. You will have this experience anyway if you have a good highly level master teaching you.

 

This is how tao is taught in the heart, that is why in the incense mantra, we say "Tao is learn in the heart and tao is passed on in the heart" now you felt it. It is magical but also things that we can experience and hard to tell people about it.

 

*Just another note, do not write down whatever you master teach you in this method, or else you will loose it too. Just keep it in your mind, review and experience from time to time. You will get more out of the juice. They do help you alot in trianing too.

 

If you want to enpower the training more, you can also get stage 1 practise in my lineage of Chi in Nature which concentrate more on the energy building and attunement. With this, you do not have to give up your own training and it works with your training too. It just add on the extra to your trianing. This you will experience even deeper communication with your current master because I will attune you into our lineage and the ability of this kind of communication will be much stronger later on. You will then learn much more from your master. Which raise your taoism study to another level.

 

Mak Tin Si

 

Thank you for your letter.

 

Yes, after the training and transmissions, if you break the precepts you get sick.

 

I experienced this a few times also.

 

It becomes natural to follow the precepts, as your "inside" has changed.

 

When you follow the precepts, something good begins to grow stronger and stronger inside.

 

When you break the precepts, this power rebels and it can cause sickness and pain.

 

I think perhaps you are correect.

 

Before he left, he said he could not stay in the polluted world any longer.

 

I many times "feel" my teachers presence in the room, or above me - especially when I practice.

 

Sometimes strange things happen these days - like voice in the early morning - time to practice.

 

The other day, I went to practice in my meditation room, and suddenly the light cord was pulled from the wall, leaving the room in total darkness - it seemed a message to practice also -

 

For a western raised person, at times it is hard to accept this world and reality of magic and mystical happenings.

 

Yet perhaps this is more real than the profane material world.........

 

Could you please share some good advice on this subject to cultivate this connection with my teacher?

[dao zhen]

Mak Tin Si Dao Zhang

 

Thank you very much for your letter.

 

Thank you very much for your sharing experience and advice.

 

I will take your words, and apply them to my current situation.

 

Thank you very much for your offer to share teachings with me from your lineage.

 

It is an honor.

 

Please let me think on this and give it consideration.

 

It is a serious thing to me, and I should think on it three times.....

 

With all my very best.

 

Thank you for all your sharing efforts.

 

Sincerely, Dao Zhen

 

 

If you want to enpower the training more, you can also get stage 1 practise in my lineage of Chi in Nature which concentrate more on the energy building and attunement. With this, you do not have to give up your own training and it works with your training too. It just add on the extra to your trianing. This you will experience even deeper communication with your current master because I will attune you into our lineage and the ability of this kind of communication will be much stronger later on. You will then learn much more from your master. Which raise your taoism study to another level.

 

Mak Tin Si

[Mak_Tin_Si]

Hi,

 

Sure, you can consider it as it just do you no harm but benefit you from bringing your trianing to anther level so that you achieve better communication with your current master too. I am sure he would be happy to see you upgrade in Taoism.

 

 

Mak Tin Si

 

 

Mak Tin Si Dao Zhang

 

Thank you very much for your letter.

 

Thank you very much for your sharing experience and advice.

 

I will take your words, and apply them to my current situation.

 

Thank you very much for your offer to share teachings with me from your lineage.

 

It is an honor.

 

Please let me think on this and give it consideration.

 

It is a serious thing to me, and I should think on it three times.....

 

With all my very best.

 

Thank you for all your sharing efforts.

 

Sincerely, Dao Zhen

[Mak_Tin_Si]

 

Here is an example of actress in HK worshipping the heaven outdoor. yuo can see they REALLY put their highest respect in these kind of rituals!

 

 

A very cute VEGGIE SAAM SANG offerings done by using beans. This can be bought in some chinese super market.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

NOTICE to all those who have wished or asked for help in any taoism temple!

 

It is now the period until the CNY to go to the temple with all these offerings and thanks the altar! Thanks the altar for all the blessings, help and things they grant you for your wishes. This will ensure they help you again next year with 100% power! Good luck to all!