Hear, Hear

[gossamer]

I've thought a lot today about what Dao means to me.

 

I don't wanna be "an immortal".

 

I don't wanna live 300 years (or however many years), or NEVER die.

 

All those whom you LOVE, would all be gone, and there you'd be alive, but ALONE.

 

I don't care about magic.

 

Been there, done that.

 

Don't need to do it again.

 

Here's what I'd like to get out of knowing Dao.

 

I'd like to grow more compassionate, and open my heart to those whom I love, and perhaps learn to deal better, with those whom I DON'T love.

 

I'd like to grow nearer to nature, and it's cycles.

 

To flow more in tune with it.

 

I'd like to learn to refine my empathy, to where what I 'feel' does not hurt so badly.

 

And I'd like to help those more, who are willing to let me help them.

 

And when it's time, I'd like to die "a good death", as the Native peoples say.

 

You know, I've seen very little compassion from the various religions.

 

Christianity is perhaps the worst, the Christian Quakers can be compassionate, but of all the churches that I've attended, and Christians that I've known, most of them are piss poor at real compassion.

 

I've associated with, and been initiated into 3 different kinds of (so-called) "wicca" and old Traditional witchcraft, and one kind of Druidism, and most of them are worse then the Christians at compassion.

 

3 things people are generally looking for there:

 

Money, sex or power (not necessarily in that particular order).

 

While I still love sex , money or "power", don't do a lot for me.

 

And I could live without them both.

 

I've hung out with various "New Age" types, most of them were into channeling spirits, or 'working' with quartz crystals, and that kind of stuff.

 

Ditto for compassion with them too.

 

Same story, different cult. lol

 

Someone last evening said something to the effect "if you consider yourself a Daoist".

 

You know, I've read (and continue to read) the Dao de Jing (Tao te Ching) a lot, but I don't think that that qualifies me as "a Daoist".

 

I'm not looking for another label, I'm looking to become the things that I described above, pretty simple really.

 

As to all of the pay to be taught Daoism thing, I can understand what you all are saying, and I agree that teachers need money too, so if it feels RIGHT to you, by all means, PAY TO BE TAUGHT.

 

A long time ago, I used to know a guy who was taught Irish "Witta" (funny, I just love [NOT!] all of these etymologically incorrect and stupid titles), or 'Wisdom Working', by a member of his family.

 

He was a pretty bright guy, and really seemed to know some (maybe a lot) of the real Irish 'Old Ways', but he begin to run advertisements in 'Circle Network News', as it was known in those days, the largest and most widespread pagan newsletter in North America, SELLING his lineage and initiation, into Irish Wisdom.

 

The old gods tolerated this for a short while, and finally just "shut down" ALL of his magical, and teaching ability.

 

This was plainly done by spiritual forces, that reached across the Atlantic Ocean from his Ancestors (and those also in the Other World) back in Ireland.

 

That was ALL that I ever really needed to see, to learn a deep, and a now, deeply ingrained lesson.

 

But maybe things are different in Religious Daoism.

 

But I remember this spiritual lesson quite vividly.

 

And I intend to listen to my HEART, concerning all of this 'pay to be taught' idea.

 

The Dalai Lama said:

 

"If you want OTHERS to be happy, practice compassion. If YOU want to be happy, practice compassion."

 

That's what I WANT.

 

There's so many people whom I've not had a chance to 'speak' with here, but of those whom I have had a chance to share with I want to thank both Stigwerd, and Ya Mu for opening their hearts to me.

 

I appreciate it, and I hope that my openness and honesty was reciprocal with you both.

 

I hope that my position on paying to be taught and being initiated, is now clear.

 

I don't know how to say it any better, then to tell it in story form.

 

The spiritual things that I'm looking for are not way lofty, or "heavenly", but really quite human, and down to earth.

 

I also still maintain that Laozi charged NO ONE, money for his teachings.

 

But whatever.

 

If you believe that he DID, good for you!

 

Peace, gossamer

Edited December 22, 2008 by gossamer

[Tao99]

Laozi didn't want to teach anybody. By the time he came along the way was well known and understood by those who cared to know, and the rest (vast majority) had no interest. The way had all been said and done and there was no more point in dredging up those old, and talked to death (for those who were wanting to listen) principles to the "moderns" of his age. The way had by that time accumulated a layer of symbolism to protect its purity for the sincerely interested wayfarers, and the symbolism became the knowledge of the way for those who merely heard about it in passing, but had no interest in it. So by this time the way was dead for those people and it was well known that they would never have any interest in finding it. And the people who were deeply interested and involved in it had heard it all before, and their students could come to them and find it (buried beneath the symbolisms and occasional wrong turns) if they were sincerely interested. So for all intents and purposes the Tao was old news and dead at the time of Laozi. For this reason Laozi left society to go to the mountains, without any intention of writing yet another book on the way. But the lords of the Nine Heavens had deemed it that the Tao should be kept beating on earth, and so they had him write down the way for the masses, while also including the secret symbolism that could be revealed to future sincere students via the oral tradition.

 

If Laozi wanted to truly teach the way to the masses he would have set up a School with buildings, teachers, a cafeteria and dorms, support staff, etc. and that of course costs money. So his School would have had to charge money in some form or another, to survive over the centuries. Students who attend would be GLAD to pay/donate the fee, to keep the school alive and attain the way.

[gossamer]

Unless you actually have a time machine (which I doubt), WHO told you all of this?

 

Were you THERE to see it happen?

 

Did you "channel" this from the gods?

 

And I must say, I've seen A LOT of "channeling", and probably 98% of it is bogus.

 

What did Laozi tell us that his Great Treasures were?

 

 

Peace, gossamer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Laozi didn't want to teach anybody. By the time he came along the way was well known and understood by those who cared to know, and the rest (vast majority) had no interest. The way had all been said and done and there was no more point in dredging up those old, and talked to death (for those who were wanting to listen) principles to the "moderns" of his age. The way had by that time accumulated a layer of symbolism to protect its purity for the sincerely interested wayfarers, and the symbolism became the knowledge of the way for those who merely heard about it in passing, but had no interest in it. So by this time the way was dead for those people and it was well known that they would never have any interest in finding it. And the people who were deeply interested and involved in it had heard it all before, and their students could come to them and find it (buried beneath the symbolisms and occasional wrong turns) if they were sincerely interested. So for all intents and purposes the Tao was old news and dead at the time of Laozi. For this reason Laozi left society to go to the mountains, without any intention of writing yet another book on the way. But the lords of the Nine Heavens had deemed it that the Tao should be kept beating on earth, and so they had him write down the way for the masses, while also including the secret symbolism that could be revealed to future sincere students via the oral tradition.

 

If Laozi wanted to truly teach the way to the masses he would have set up a School with buildings, teachers, a cafeteria and dorms, support staff, etc. and that of course costs money. So his School would have had to charge money in some form or another, to survive over the centuries. Students who attend would be GLAD to pay/donate the fee, to keep the school alive and attain the way.

[.broken.]

[gossamer]

[cricketty-rise]

what's the difference between being dead and one with the tao and being alive and one with the tao?