Makoto Posted December 22, 2008 He seems like a man of all theory and no practice or application, sorry to say. I agree with this statement. It seems that most of what is posted by him is available anywhere on the web if you look enough. He does not explain how to or the nuances of his practice. Even after reading his posts I do not feel as if I have any information or techniques for improving the quality of my life. Sounds like an arm chair quarterback to me. Just my opinion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dainin Posted December 22, 2008 There is a full page ad in the current issue of "The Empty Vessel" by a guy doing a workshop on creating Taoist talismans. The cost of the workshop: $1000. I wonder how many attendees he will have! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sean Posted December 22, 2008 ... Sean, the rather mysterious and godly person who set up and is looking after this forum ... Mak Sin Ti, please be respectful of the community. Starting a topic is an intention to begin a conversation with the community. Try to imagine that when you start a topic, you are going up to a group of people, saying hello, and then saying "I'd like to hear what you think about this ..." If you are consistently creating more than one topic a day, it's the online equivalent of talking about a lot of stuff that you want to talk about and without listening very deeply. Bad combo. If you want to advertise on the forum, pm me, I'm open to running a banner for your website in the header space for reasonable fees. Sean Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
de_paradise Posted December 22, 2008 (edited) I fairly appreciate Mak's content, high signal to noise ratio, and his replies to challenges show the depth of his knowlege. I'm sure he'll get bored of posting so much before long. Edited December 22, 2008 by de_paradise Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrasattva Posted December 22, 2008 He seems like a man of all theory and no practice or application, sorry to say. I totally agree...but heck what do us americans know about Tao??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan T. Posted December 22, 2008 Yes, this IS what I'm saying. If someone else wishes to pay $312.00 for his lineage, be my guest. NO problems. But I DO have a problem with someone trying to SELL his lineage/tradition through writing posts here on the forum. I mean NO dis- "respect" what so ever. Look, if you guys wanna pay for anything, it's NOT my business. But when someone is *spamming* the forum, so I've gotta read it too, that IS my business. And besides, it's actually hard to find other NEW posts when Mak Tin Si, is all I see (lol). Peace, gossamer From my point of view I see you trying to "sell" us more than I have seen MTS try to sell in any of his posts. Granted I don't hit every thread he posts in. You definitely seem to have an axe to grind with the guy as you keep bringing this up over and over again. I can see that MTS might like to have a personal practice space and that other members might benefit from it. But I still see nothing wrong with the content of his posts or their frequency. I tend to disagree with some of his communication stylings(or lack there of, IMO) but I haven't seen anything that should elicit the kind of response that you are exhibiting. Also, who is next? Who else should we push to another section of the forum(or out of it) because we don't agree with their take on things? Or how they may or may not choose to put knowledge into the world. Anyway, Sean has spoken so...whatever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZenStatic Posted December 22, 2008 I think it's funny, that a guy that is actually sharing knowledge with everyone, and the on his website has the option to pay for specific things, is getting a harder time than the guy that was selling $70 ebooks. Strange how attitudes can morph. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dean Posted December 22, 2008 Give the poor guy a break! He's just expressing his beliefs like every one else here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sean Posted December 22, 2008 I totally agree...but heck what do us americans know about Tao??? Nice handstand scorpion! hua_na_da, I agree the original poster was rather heavy handed with Mak Tin Si. Mak Tin Si, you are loved here. I hope you stay and continue to contribute. Just do your best to combine your ideas to one thread. For example, you could have combined all your "intro to terminology in taoism again" topics into one single topic that you keep adding to. Blessings, Sean [edit]PS - Someone trying to sell something here is not a reason for being called out. I really don't understand this view. As if the revelation that someone has something of value they offer for trade or money invalidates their contribution. Bullshit. I encourage commerce here. I think people that devote their lives to the spiritual evolution of human beings should make more bank than doctors and not have to hide it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrasattva Posted December 23, 2008 Nice handstand scorpion! hua_na_da, I agree the original poster was rather heavy handed with Mak Tin Si. Mak Tin Si, you are loved here. I hope you stay and continue to contribute. Just do your best to combine your ideas to one thread. For example, you could have combined all your "intro to terminology in taoism again" topics into one single topic that you keep adding to. Blessings, Sean [edit]PS - Someone trying to sell something here is not a reason for being called out. I really don't understand this view. As if the revelation that someone has something of value they offer for trade or money invalidates their contribution. Bullshit. I encourage commerce here. I think people that devote their lives to the spiritual evolution of human beings should make more bank than doctors and not have to hide it. Sean You are a Good man : ) Many blessings to you. Santi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dao zhen Posted December 23, 2008 I would like to start by asking all of you to consider where you come from - perhaps most are from North America - How many traditional Taoists have you ever met? Not many perhaps...... Think on how long and for how many years a traditional Taoist trains and studies and practices to perfect their art.... Think that with most of the scripture, fortune telling methods, techniques, methods, Fu, and the lot - ALL ARE MEMORIZED - AND ON CALL FROM MEMORY - usually - Taoism has many ranks...... DaoRen - Just an ordained Taoist of no real rank, but someone following the way, knows some scripture, ceemony - maybe - some actual pracitce methods..... DaoShr - Maybe a bit higher on the scale than a DaoRen, but almost the same..... DaoZhang - This is like a master or high ranking Taoist. Much more knowledge, ability, and perhaps practice methods. TianShr - A Heavenly Master. Like a DaoZhang, but they have a unique connection to the Great Heavenly Master Zhang Dao Ling.... Mak TianSr is in the Heavenly Master category..... So try and put yourself in his shoes...... He must have a huge volume of various teachings, information, and methods that he has learned from his education......... He sees that this is a "TAO BUMS" forum...... Where there is an area termed "TAOIST DISCUSSION" ......... And he sees that no one has any real idea of the width of the Taoist school.... And he wishes to FREELY share his translations of FU, how to read the FIVE ELEMENTS on the palm for memorization, about YIN AND YANG cycles during the year, when to gather the PURE YANG qi in december, about how to deal with INSOMNIA with FU..... And lots of other stuff that I just thought....... WOW....... Here is a Lineage Holder - real one - from China, sharing his tradition for free...... What a good heart he has, and a real love for the Tradition of Tao..... I think most of you are a little bit foolish to not put your egos aside, and ask more questions..... He answers any questions that are asked........ SECOND POINT Do you know how someone of this rank is treated in Taoism circles, or in temples? Like respected royalty... WHY? Because they have given up their lives to hold the knowledge and pass it on to another generation...... Because they serve the sick, those in need, and in the Heavenly Masters tradition, they have techniques and skills to kill, supress, and bind demonic entity...... Would it not be sad if Fu and other lesser known Taoism Arts were not passed on........? Something to think on...... ANOTHER POINT I am sure that Mak TianSr can make a very nice living to supprt himself from the LARGE CHINESE community where he lives........ He does not need to waste his time to try and sell things to Tao Bums.... He is just offering his service... 90usd to join his lineage, and get lessons, teachings, help, support and such for life............. That is amazing........ I can tell one story of a famous Master in Wudang who took a foreign disciple for - 10,000usd - It may not be right....... But it happens......... 90 is usually an amount someone can work to get, and it shows respect and it is also a kind if energy exchange..... Another point to think about...... Lets say the Pope or Ecart Tole were to come on the Tao Bums and post stuff for free......... Maybe they would get respect from you guys??? Even if you do not agree with Mak TianShr, lets just have some respect..... Respect and Tolerance are the first virtues one should cultivate as a Taoist...... Lets show a bit more of this around here........ We are all here to learn and grow right??? I think given Mak TianShr is an ordained Taoist and Lineage holder wiling to share...... Lets give him his own little page or section, where he can post away and nothing gets lost...... Then people who wish to learn from his teachings have one place to visit...... Maybe the Personal Practice Section is one good idea for TianShr Mak to post his various teachings and put them in one thread......? http://www.thetaobums.com/Personal-Practic...ussion-f15.html Maybe someone could PM him and let him know how to set it up......... I think the more teachings and information available is better, and gives us new ideas.... I think that people with actual training, and lineage, wish to spend time here and share with members is an honor...... Just my ideas....... PS. Let us not forget ENGLISH is his SECOND language.... So sometimes what you read into his words, is not really the intention - it is just his second language - WOW... a TianShr who has learned English and is sharing with Westerners........ Lets show some good manner and respect here...... PPS. I think it was my Grandmother who taught me this: "If you do not have something nice to say... Just say nothing at all." Would it not make the world a much better place if more people did this..... Just smile and laugh..... No need to put negative words - energy - out there. We have enough of this already. I love all of you........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted December 23, 2008 Just my ideas....... And very good ones i might add Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sean Posted December 23, 2008 Thanks Santi. dao zhen, points well taken. Mak_Tin_Si, I've created you your very own honorific section that you have full control over here: http://www.thetaobums.com/Mak-Tin-Si-f93.html You might also consider posting some of your material into the Contributed Articles section: http://www.thetaobums.com/Contributed-Articles-f20.html And don't hesitate to post in the main Taoist Discussion, just try to keep it to 1 or 2 new topics a day max except for in case of emergencies. Best, Sean Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted December 23, 2008 He seems like a man of all theory and no practice or application, sorry to say. I see three threads of thought flowing through this topic. 1) I don't want to see someone soliciting their "school" of Taoism through this forum 2) I don't want to see anyone writing about Taoism that doesn't fit into my frame of reference or what I know as Taoism 3) I don't see anything wrong with anyone posting anything related to Taoism I personally find option 3 the best one and least condescending and most open...demonstrative of Beginner's mind. "Unless we empty our cup, it can't hold more tea"... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dean Posted December 23, 2008 I see three threads of thought flowing through this topic. 1) I don't want to see someone soliciting their "school" of Taoism through this forum 2) I don't want to see anyone writing about Taoism that doesn't fit into my frame of reference or what I know as Taoism 3) I don't see anything wrong with anyone posting anything related to Taoism I personally find option 3 the best one and least condescending and most open...demonstrative of Beginner's mind. "Unless we empty our cup, it can't hold more tea"... I agree, dwai! It seems as a lot of people already know everything so why they even visit to post is beyond me. Perhaps, there just naturally argumentative people I suppose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
r.w.smith Posted December 23, 2008 If You dont agree with Mak Tin Si's posts then Dont read Them. Problem Solved ! Nobody was complaining about Wang Lipings Seminar for $2000 Advertised Here, Or David Vedesi's Foundation crap for $7500. The students of these Masters Lurk around this Forum & Choose not too say a single Word. Something which makes me Sick . Mak has shared a great deal with this forum & Its Amusing how Some feel Threatened by His posts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZenStatic Posted December 23, 2008 I see three threads of thought flowing through this topic. 1) I don't want to see someone soliciting their "school" of Taoism through this forum 2) I don't want to see anyone writing about Taoism that doesn't fit into my frame of reference or what I know as Taoism 3) I don't see anything wrong with anyone posting anything related to Taoism I personally find option 3 the best one and least condescending and most open...demonstrative of Beginner's mind. "Unless we empty our cup, it can't hold more tea"... "Nan-in received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen. He served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, then kept on pouring. The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!" "Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?" " It's actually my sig on another forum Fabulous tale. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martial Development Posted December 23, 2008 I haven't read all of Mak Tin Si's many posts, but I appreciate the opportunity to do so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
h.uriahr Posted December 23, 2008 If You dont agree with Mak Tin Si's posts then Dont read Them. Problem Solved ! Nobody was complaining about Wang Lipings Seminar for $2000 Advertised Here, Or David Vedesi's Foundation crap for $7500. The students of these Masters Lurk around this Forum & Choose not too say a single Word. Something which makes me Sick . Mak has shared a great deal with this forum & Its Amusing how Some feel Threatened by His posts. I think Mak has brought up some interesting topics. What is a bit bothersome is that he wont help a fellow bum in need. Not that he's obligated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mak_Tin_Si Posted December 23, 2008 I did offered the help, just that it is not being accepted. Can you read before commenting? If everybody come to my temple say they are poor and they expect to get free ceremonies and help, how can a temple operate? Go McDonals and ask for free burgers. I wonder what they will do. They don't care even you starve to death. In Tao Te Ching, Lao Zi already told you, nature runs without feelings, non stop... A temple is the same, it have it's own rule, and will not care what and who you are, you still get the same treatment and same thing from it. If people have to pay $90, you also have to pay it. Cannot break the rules because that is what leads to corruption of a temple and also nature. I think Mak has brought up some interesting topics. What is a bit bothersome is that he wont help a fellow bum in need. Not that he's obligated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taiji Bum Posted December 23, 2008 McDonalds might let people starve to death.... but when I worked for Halo Burger in Flint, Michigan we would give a free hamburger a night to the homeless people. But whether its donations or outright charging, I dont see anything wrong with money being taken for knowledge, even spiritual knowledge. What better way to spend money. I even love the way success gurus say to tithe in order to bring more money into your life. Money is a good thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dean Posted December 23, 2008 What is a bit bothersome is that he wont help a fellow bum in need. Not that he's obligated. MPWay, I don't mean to quote you out of context. I have had teachers teach me in the past on a sliding scale or without a fee as the result of me providing them help in someway. I think that paying a fee or investing some sweat is the best way to internalize what you learn. If it's free I think one might have a tendency to discount the teachings. Just my opinions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist81 Posted December 23, 2008 I even love the way success gurus say to tithe in order to bring more money into your life. Money is a good thing. Then you must love the poverty and starvation these "people" have caused those unfortunate enough to have a parent who was told they should give their kids lunch money to the rolex wearing preacher to buy a new yacht instead of their children for food. It is great to encourage charity, but stupidity is a different story. There will be a few success stories in any group, but before "loving" this garbage, one should look into the harm it causes. Jesus, who most of these people claim to follow, told his disciples to give their money to the poor, not to himself. Same with Muhammad, Guru Nanak etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unconditioned Posted December 23, 2008 This whole thing is such a great lesson. I am personally grateful for all of the posts because it did raise some reactions in me that after observing I didn't realize were even there. Which after further investigation lead me to see some sides of me that I did not before. Whether I agree or disagree with his posts or whether I accept or reject them, they are there. My response, my reaction, is all mine, not his. My conditioned 'self' is the cause, not his posts. Or, to quote some classic hip-hop that has some real wisdom: chiggity-check yourself before you wreck yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
