Fu-? help or superstition?

[Riyue]

regarding to the many postings about fu... it would be interesting how many do believe in it...

 

regarding to the many postings about fu... it would be interesting how many do believe in it...

poll about fu

Edited December 25, 2008 by Riyue

[Mal]

[Ryan T.]

regarding to the many postings about fu... it would be interesting how many do believe in it...

 

I have no direct experience with FU so I cannot rule out its authenticity.

 

Considering the things I have known others to not believe true that I have directly experienced myself, I find it better to always leave the door open.

 

The picture is much larger than we can ever see at one time and we only get a tiny piece of that picture at any given moment. And we tend not to remember what we have seen already, unfortunately.

[mewtwo]

I dont have much experience with talismans of any kind. I belive that we have all that we need inside ourselfs we just have to learn it like how to heal ourselfs, in my opion they are a way of invoking what is on the inside through an outside source. thus i voted for number 3.

[Pietro]

regarding to the many postings about fu... it would be interesting how many do believe in it...

poll about fu

I would say it has elements of both sides.

 

I have noticed that it is quite easy for whoever knows something that can work in some occasion to generalise it and make it fit for every occasion. If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. So the idea that you can use Fu for every occasion, and everything is explainable via spirits and Fu is superstition. Coming from a period where the understanding of nature was lower. But then again there are situations where I have felt spirits. And situations where fingers in the shape of a sword were helpful.

 

Years ago I remember a shaman speaking with a young, new age, guy. He was accusing some pains in his belly, and started in his head the movie of what must have happened in his n'th lifetime to give him this karmic problem. The shaman asked him what did he took for breakfast.

[Spirit Ape]

Anything you believe in your own mind is true if you want it to work it can work if you are half half about it i doubt it will work for you.

 

Truth and false is in the ocean of your own mind!!!!

[Taomeow]

I was just reading a book by the Grateful Dead's Phil Lesh who describes the sequence of events with a jade fertility egg his mom gave him when he and his wife were trying to have a baby and she (the wife, not mom) was miscarrying (which, after all the drugs they'd taken, is no surprise). The egg worked right away, and they had their first son. A married couple who were close friends and couldn't conceive either heard the story, and borrowed the egg for shits and giggles; the woman became pregnant immediately. They passed the egg on to another couple of friends ISO a baby; the baby was immediately produced. The egg went into circulation this way, never once failing, Lesh gives an account of a whole bunch of its "doings" for his friends and friends of friends. He owned it briefly again when someone returned it, and he and his wife had their second son, whereupon they gave the egg to someone else in need again and asked to never return it to them, since they didn't want any more children. So the egg went on doing its magic for others.

 

Things like that can be a real bummer to prove or disprove. Magic is experiential, things happen or don't happen, but once they happen, you can't really prove with any ease they happened because of magic, and once they don't you can't prove they didn't because magic is not real either -- it may have been for an assortment of other reasons, last but not least the magician may have been inept, or outright bogus.

 

However, magic is not a matter of belief, anymore than your digestion is. There was a French scientist, forget his name, who almost got the Nobel prize for the work that proved metabolic transmutation of elements, the alchemical-magical staple, in the course of digestion. (Which explains, among other things, why people might be free of nutritional deficiencies on the poorest diets -- a known fact -- homeless beggars in Calcutta were shown in one study to have far better metabolic/nutritional profiles than upper middle class American teenagers, being overwhelmingly free of nutritional deficiencies our best-fed kids suffer from.) The Nobel folks chickened out though, the work was so in the face of everything our science "assumes" about the workings of biophysical energies that it was promptly shushed. If it wasn't, magic of the alchemical kind would have been our scientific fact by now, and rightfully so... but we're too far gone in our assumptions, so all the facts that don't match them are being routinely dismissed, silenced, or reinterpreted to fit our current party-line scientific paradigm.

 

Fu magic is absolutely real, for reasons that are scientific, believe it or not. It's just that our idea of what "scientific" is isn't really scientific. Not on the terms of the live human experience of the prior one million years or so anyway. It's only "scientific" on the terms established by decree some 150 years ago. That's when magic was officially removed from the domain of science -- not via a scientific investigation, but by acts of authoritarian enforcement. Which is why I don't care much for this enforced paradigm's opinions about things it never investigated to begin with.

[rookie]

That's a very interesting story Taomeow.

Hope that egg doesn't come my way

 

Have you heard of the documented case of the fellow who had a cancerous tumor and was given a few months to live? Then a cure was reported for this form of cancer. It was administered by his doctors and the tumor completely disapeared. It was later found that the cure was a mistake and didn't really cause the remission in general cases. The doctors didn't want to tell him this, but it came out in the news and the fellows cancer came right back after he heard the news report and believed it. He died in a few months.

 

This is real proof of the power of belief. This is real magic I would say, all within your own being.

If you truely believe in magic, it will be magic for you.

 

I am interested in your statement that Fu magic, or any magic, is scientifically true. I'm not sure what oyu mean by that. Can you elaborate?

[Pero]

I remember reading something about the transmutation of elements long ago, however there it was done with plants if I remember correctly. Maybe same thing?

I think that was a Frenchman also. Can't remember where I read about it.

[thelerner]

I think there is something to it, but I worry that the purchaser of a $50 Fu, then $75 Fu will be in line for a hundred and thousand dollar Fu's.

 

Michael

[mYTHmAKER]

One man's magic is another mans science.

Of course they can work.

[rookie]

I think there is something to it, but I worry that the purchaser of a $50 Fu, then $75 Fu will be in line for a hundred and thousand dollar Fu's.

 

Michael

 

I know, layers and layers of FU

I wonder if the community around the "Fu temple" that gets it all the time is without all these practical problems?

probablty not.

 

I'm not so concerned with FU.

 

The power of belief is very powerful, I believe

[Taomeow]

I am interested in your statement that Fu magic, or any magic, is scientifically true. I'm not sure what oyu mean by that. Can you elaborate?

 

 

Thanks for asking!

 

There's several ways the human mind can organize itself to reflect reality -- several billion, to be closer to the truth. We (the generic modern "we") are currently using one that has come to be promoted and socially/culturally/intellectually enforced. It is sequential (based on the idea of linear time), deterministic (based on the idea of cause and effect), materialistic (based on the idea of reality being only manipulable mechanically, by what we can manhandle, and inert to intent), and non-experiential (based entirely on hearsay -- we "know" "scientific facts" because we were told they are scientific facts by someone else, we don't get them directly from our own somatosensory processes). This is a system of organizing reality that excludes magic from the domain of "science" by default. It is entirely left-brain, yang-skewed, and drastically limited in its ability to tackle live phenomena. It is very good for "technologies," non-live things, which are the only ones that easily meet its established criteria for "truth" or "falseness." A machine works in exact congruence with these; so the main -- I would submit the only -- achievement of this mode of organizing reality is a drastic proliferation of machines, the only things truly benefiting from such an approach; and as a side effect, step-by-step mechanical programming and robotization of human beings and human interactions.

 

However, for the overwhelming majority of our time on this planet, humans organized reality on entirely different principles. These were non-sequential (based on the idea of nonlinear time, which allowed for the "past" and the "future" to be coaxed into the "present" -- hence phenomena like communication with the dead, clairvoyance, etc.); non-deterministic/stochastic (i.e. based on probabilities rather than certainties, and on analogies rather than cause-effect interactions; i.e. on fractals rather than highways, so to speak); spiritual (based on the idea of physical reality being responsive to nonphysical procedures, e.g. focused intent); and experiential (based entirely on first-hand knowledge -- e.g., you were offered the entheogenic brew of your tribe in order to study the history of your tribe, evolution of your species, cosmology, ethics, physics, whatever... and took that rather than someone's word for it). This is a system of organizing reality that equates magic with science -- one IS the other, no other science is possible if you're using your whole brain to process reality. It is not technology-friendly, but it is great at tackling live phenomena. The world is magical. It is not a sequential, logical, step-by-step, cause-effect process. What's the cause of water?.. In this system, no one is interested. Everybody is interested in its analogies though -- things that behave "like water." You discover qi this way, e.g.. You discover humbleness this way. You discover whole rich, fruitful worlds of analogies... but you ignore the "cause" completely. That's magical thinking. The real kind. That's magical sciences. The real ones.

 

This, very very briefly, covers what I've been trying to tackle every which nonlinear way for quite a while.

 

Oh, and by the way, since Mak Tin Si "provoked" this discussion... I have no idea if his fu are the real thing, but I do declare the real thing exists. Quite independently of whether anyone "believes" in it. Beliefs are a form of subtle energy -- not the only one, not the most potent one... So in your example with cancer, yes, the energy of "belief" was responsible for events that took place, but I worked with cancer patients and the only common denominator I've discerned is this -- if someone "believes" he or she will die, he or she will. This one belief seems to be strong enough to overcome any treatment... But it's not like that with other beliefs. There's as many beliefs as there's people, and most of them fail to deliver. Belief, in and of itself, is not very strong medicine...

[Ya Mu]

I think there is something to it, but I worry that the purchaser of a $50 Fu, then $75 Fu will be in line for a hundred and thousand dollar Fu's.

 

Michael

 

We hope that isn't the case, it is surely open to speculation.

 

 

Thanks for asking!

 

.. I have no idea if his fu are the real thing, but I do declare the real thing exists. Quite independently of whether anyone "believes" in it. Beliefs are a form of subtle energy -- not the only one, not the most potent one...

 

 

+ 1000

 

I hear all the time those that don't know say that energetics work because of belief. Tell that to the goats dogs, and horses that I have had great success with. They just didn't believe anything at all.

 

I also do a Fu; don't really call it that but it is the same thing. One of the things I teach in my classes is "water Fu". It works with an efficacy of 75% - 100% even with beginners (therapy beginners that have been practicing qigong). The longer term practitioners have a higher result than the less-longer term practitioners. In the beginning training we just interview the client (students divide into "healer" and "client) and ask for their foremost concern of pain. The "healer" puts the "cure" into the water and then the "client" drinks it. Results are usually immediate.

The last class we did this on someone with a cold; they showed immediate response (This was a less than 10 minute demonstration so I have no idea what "permanent" value it had.) with a clearer head, more apparent energy and alertness, and immediate drainage.

 

So, yes. this technique can be very powerful. I use it a lot in clinic. Very valuable for supercharging an herbal tonic. One of my students does this with a Dit Da Jow that he manufactures. I have noticed a huge difference with this product versus another non "empowered" product; definitely better efficacy. And my experience is the folks that use it ( at least where I am located) usually believe it will not work and are surprised when it does.