Isolating the "tailbone" muscle: "anal breathing"

[Fletch]

Hi, I have been reading Dr Lin's information on ejaculation control using his "anal breathing" method.

 

http://www.actionlove.com/cases/case15773.htm

 

Let's disregard the silly name - I am very keen to figure out how to do it.

 

What confuses me is how you actually isolate the "tailbone" muscle. I understand this to run between the sacrum and the anus. But if I try to squeeze there, I cannot avoid contracting the PC muscle / prostate. Yet Dr Lin says this must be avoided. I have tried expanding my lower abdomen to inhibit PC contraction, but I still cant isolate the tailbone muscle from the PC muscles.

 

At the same time, when Dr Lin first describes this practice, I understand him as instructing the contraction of your buttocks (note - the external buttock muscles, not the more internal anal muscles) whilst urinating. This might press your sacral nerves and begin to activate them, which is the overall aim here. But in that case, is he saying you don't need to consciously isolate the tailbone muscles afterall?

 

I would really, really appreciate some advice from someone who has had success in Dr Lin's method.

 

Many thanks,

Fletch

[yangluchan]

I just wanted to butt in (no pun intended... or? ) and say: GREAT post! I am trying to figure this very thing out myself these days, and was planning to post asking the same question! Anyone have any good tips on how to achieve this, isolate the tailbone muscle and achieve dry orgasms using Dr. Lin's method?

 

Cheers!

Edited December 26, 2008 by yangluchan

[agharta]

Try putting the tip of your finger on the very end of your tailbone. Start contracting various muscles in that area. Eventurally, you will feel the tailbone move. Keep working until you have isolated the exact muscles to clench. That's it. It has the side effect of reducing stagnation in the prostate area, which is very good, particularly as you get older.

[Trunk]

Check out the stuff listed in Lin's Links.

courtesy of alchemicaltaoism.com.

[Fletch]

Guys, thanks all for the very swift replies!

 

Trunk, thanks but I've read both of those sites and neither has really cleared it up for me. I would love to ask the person who put togther Lin's Links as there's a whole section by someone who appears to know a lot about the tailbone method, but there's no email address....

 

Agharta - thank you very much, that certainly sounds a practical (and obvious!) way to go about it. I will be trying it out.

 

Yangluchan - I won't be able to start practicing until about two weeks from now, but if I find anything out after that I can let you know - maybe pm me if you have any success too?

 

Thanks guys

[yangluchan]

Thanks guys!

 

Agharta: Will try, thanks!

 

Trunk: Great collection of links, thanks!

 

Fletch: Will do man, I feel I have to master this as part of my path, cool if we can share experiences and tips.

 

Btw, agharta and Trunk, have you guys had success with this? Did it take long? Was it hard to achieve dry orgasms using the anal breathing, or did it come easily once you were able to isolate the right muscle?

 

What about PC contractions? Since doing a lot of Kegels and misguided Mantak Chia practices for years (without actually getting there) my PC is quite strong and contracts like hell when an ejaculation is imminent. I also have a near reflex now to sqeueeze my PC hard if an ejaculation feels threateningly near... Do I have to NOT squeeze the PC at all (I remember reading something from that Alan Ritz book that squeezing the PC only once will activates the Sympathetic Nervous System as opposed the the Parasympathetic Nervous System that is hooked up to the "anal" muscle, and so everything is ruined and you have to start all over) or doesn't it matter?

 

Thanks!

[Mal]

Anal breathing, like everything gets better, more relaxed and natural with practice

 

Personally

 

I like to get a flow going with my breathing. Back and up rather than the, "going out from the groin" feeling. Connecting with the breath.

 

Breath down into the bladder and compress. Then scrotum, perinuim ,anus, up the spine. I try to keep the pc relaxed. PC seems to naturally pulse when actively "pumping" and I basically physically clench anus and bum to do than. Hands and feet are good to help pump with. With practice becomes much less physical, more.... you just pull the "energy feeling" away ?!?!

 

Strong physical action can help if you start pumping a bit "late".... sometimes But staying in touch and feeling what is going on. Once you learn "when it's time" it's more mental.

 

 

ave you guys had success with this? Did it take long? Was it hard to achieve dry orgasms using the anal breathing, or did it come easily once you were able to isolate the right muscle?

 

Slowly developed over a year, sometimes really in control, sometime/often disappointing when learning "when it's time". Not "hard" to achieve, more like opening up to a different sensation. More a co-ordination than an isolation. Still prefer to use this ~ 3 times then EJ, otherwise never want to stop

 

Aneros helped with learning, feeling tension, feeling different muscles, relaxation and different sensations too

[Eric23]

I went through the section of Trunk's site that he has linked several years ago when first happening upon TTBs. I found the material by S Biel to be extremely helpful in understanding Dr. Lin's process. I've gotten away from the big draw or any hard contractions and gently squeeze the anus and back into the sacrum. My experience is very similar to Mal's, works great without forcing anything. Just now re-visited the section at AT and saw the Supta Baddha Konasana position. My yin yoga teacher has us do Supta Baddha Konasana quite often and I've incorporated it into my morning home routine. This is a great asana that opens up entire groin and gets things flowing nicely down there; highly recommend. Agharta's advise is great too. When first starting out I came across the same recommendation and worked on massaging the end of my tailbone. The stagnation at that point surprised me. Take your time, re-read the material and work into it slowly and gently.

[agharta]

.

 

Btw, agharta and Trunk, have you guys had success with this? Did it take long? Was it hard to achieve dry orgasms using the anal breathing, or did it come easily once you were able to isolate the right muscle?

 

 

 

 

It didn't take all that long, maybe 6 months, to achieve the orgasms. Unless, of course, you consider 6 months a long time. LOL You have to do the contractions a lot, like, at least 30-40 a day, to get the best results.

 

 

I found that using a ma roller on that whole region of the buttocks, lower back, etc,. really opened things up down there. It improved my orgasms and sex drive a lot. Massage may help with this, but the ma roller really worked for me., although heavy massage may also work. The ma roller is cheaper, though.

 

The Aneros also had similar effects for me. I don't use it anymore, but it really helped when I needed help. Occasionally I'll have my girlfriend lube up her finger and give me a prostate massage while performing fellatio simply because it feels so good/gives such an intense orgasm, but I don't really need prostate massage now. All those tailbone contractions really keep my prostate free of stagnation.

[voidisyinyang]

"Remarkably when the moment comes the finger will seem to be drawn into the anus" hilarious!

 

http://www.whitelotuseast.com/SacredSpotMassage.htm

 

Remember that Dr. Lin stresses that the problem is overstimulation of the prostate gland since in terms of the internal climax this will not enable the semen to travel up the back. Of course semen is not supposed to travel up the spinal chord according to Western science. Does Dr. Lin provide any details on how the hell semen makes its way up the spinal column?

 

I thought anal breathing was using the sphincter muscles -- which I guess it is -- to suck in the air -- but now you say it's more like the tail bone muscles. I guess we should just visualize the taste of shrimp. I just sit in full-lotus having mutual climaxes with females around me since the electromagnetic energy shoots out of the pineal gland -- which is of course the NEXT step after purifying the sex energy. Still not sure I could do multiple internal climaxes with my pecker in someones yoni, since physical stimulation just promotes the creation of fluid, the exact opposite of transmuting the electrochemical energy into electromagnetic spirit-light.

 

When I saw this PM I thought it might be from the perv again but it was too long for me to remember his email tag. I can read the energy before I open the email though and then when I opened it I realized from your writing that you are not the same dude. Can't remember the name he went by but he stopped PMing me after I posted that -- I have already erased prevous his PMs (but not your previous PMs).

 

To answer your question -- the full-lotus, after achieving up to chapter 10 in "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality," burns off any blue balls by simply converting the sex drive into electromagnetic energy which is shot into people around me. If it's a female then it's a mutual climax (since hers is already internal) and in turn the full-lotus sucks up the electrochemical energy around me (which is more for females from the mutual climax). This electrochemical energy then must be converted through more full-lotus into electromagnetic energy which is then stored in the body for safe keeping during sleep, otherwise it will be lost as generative fluid. The problem is that my housemate is a perv who's unconsious electromagnetic energy is stored in his lower chakra so that he's attracted to any built up energy I have with the intent of converting it back into seminal fluid -- he sucks me off in my sleep -- through the walls. So the best solution is to burn off all the extra electromagnetic energy at night by just shooting it into him pre-emptively (before he converts it back into generative fluid for me). If I were to increase my storage of power in order to further open up my third eye I would have to disassociate myself from all the pervs since they do not have internal climaxes (like females). My brother-in-law is also a perv -- which is to say that I have no escape. So you just keep sitting in full-lotus and this balances out the lower emotions, converting them into electromagnetic energy which females then suck up for mutual climaxes, thereby restoring the love-light back to female formless awareness or pure consciousness.

Edited December 27, 2008 by drew hempel

[alexandrov]

well I tried learning dr. Lin's anal breathing for some time about a year back or so

 

I still use it every so often

 

I only tried the offline practice because I no longer have the ability to sustain a normal erection over a few

 

minutes usually.

 

 

 

Dr.Lin claims that one can have dry orgasms with the offline practice (by just leaning how to sync tailbone

 

contractions correctly, without having an erection or touching the penis or anything else) I have not able to

 

reproduce this yet. To tell you the truth I am not even sure if I am flexing the correct tailbone muscle when I

 

flex (I will explain this in more detail below). I am able however to easily get the rapid involunary muscle

 

contractions in that area, and can slow the

 

contractions down and pulse them at varioius intervals. I can get some pleasure from this. One time I almost

 

had an orgasm from doing this shortly after an ejaculation, by controlling the pulses to a certain pattern.

 

 

 

 

 

However I must note a few things. First I no longer do this practice seriously because I have developed

 

uncontrolable PC muscle spasms from practicing Mantak chia's recommendation of using ExTREMELY HARD PC

 

muscle flexes which I would never recommend anyone do. I think this may have caused me to not be able to

 

flex my tailbone seprately from my PC muscles. When I get the involuntary contractions mentioned above

 

they usually seem to involve all the muscles in that area including the tailbone and PC, it is pretty difficult for

 

me to separate them I think but I seem to be able to flex the tailbone muscle harder then the PC muscle even

 

though I flex them both at the same time. It is also sometimes dificult to tell what I am flexing, especially

 

when I do harder flexes later in sessions when the contractions become more automatic. the so

 

called "involuntary" contractions I think are a misnomer because they can be controlled, so I use the

 

term "automatic" contractions as I think it is more appropriate.

[voidisyinyang]

I'ts 2:47 a.m. and I'm now hand-writing my recent new Taoist experience. I was fast asleep but then woken up by my old perv housemate psychically sucking me off while he was in the bathroom 5 feet behind my bed. I was sleeping on my right side and the electromagnetic chi was converted to jing as it was sucked out of my anus and genitals. So I thought, half awake, at least now my energy is activated in my nether regions since the deconversion produced the generative force -- a blissful heat. I then thought I can now go into full-lotus easily but instead of doing so I fell back asleep into dreaming. Soon my coworkers had moved into the third room on my floor and they began using the bathroom now. At first it was a male but then it was a young female. Since I was now in full-lotus I could have a psychic mutual climax and reverse the perv damage (by reconverting the generative force back into positive spirit or electromagnetic light energy shot out of my pineal gland). Only I wasn't really in full-lotus but was still sleeping on my right-side and I woke up to the generative force (which had been chi but was deconverted from electromagnetic into electrochemical by the perv probably jerking off in the bathroom) now being lost as fluid for myself.

 

Immediately realizing what had happened (that I dreamt I was in full-lotus but really wasn't) I suddenly remembered having described this very "perv problem while I slept" in my last post online and in the instant window of opportunity I flexed my sphincter and squeezed by butt cheeks and pulled my tailbone muscles up and backwards like a shrimp. The climax was over and amazingly not a drop lost of fluid! Instead I had the generative force now in my lower back and in my tailbone. My hips were lose and I was awake and energized and blissful. The anal-breathing really worked! I thought wow -- I really could use this in the bedroom! haha Then I thought the final test is when I take a leak to see if it's foamy (indicating that the semen went into the prostate instead of up the spinal column). As I lay on my back waiting for my bladder to fill up I passed some gas and thought yes that generative force is cleaning out the blockages. Then my other housemate (not the old perv but the younger cool dude) now went into the can. So I switched on the light, grabbed my new compositional book xmas gift, went into full-lotus on a cushion and composed the above.

 

Now that I've been in full-lotus for 10 minutes I doubt my piss will be foamy but I do have to piss so we'll see. Also I remembered that last night's full-lotus session had this amazing violet light in my brain with strong magnetic fields in my brain and my heart chakra really opened up. I felt strong love and it was inspired by my third viewing of Prodigal Son, the martial arts flick, based on an excellent student-teacher love story. My point being, even though I did successfully have the anal breathing climax it still did not open up the heart chakra like last night which was the result of sitting in full-lotus for about 8 hours yesterday, much of it in a similar teacher-student conversation with a younger coworker of mine who is a great sincere learner about the Way. Out of full-lotus now, it's 3:06 a.m. Took the piss and absolutely no foam.

[alexandrov]

any other tips on isolating the tailbone?

 

 

dr. lin says you dont have to contract hard

 

 

also he says the penis and testicles should not move when only the tailbone is contracted

 

i can not prevent the penis and testicles from moving when i try to contract the tailbone unless i do it

 

extremely lightly.

[Mal]

any other tips on isolating the tailbone?

<insert tip> do it extremely lightly.

and practice.

 

It does not have to be a forceful contraction if done at the "right" time.

 

As a practice try when you are aroused but not approaching orgasm. Lightly pump the enery up the spine, its physical at the beginning, it becomes more mental after practice.

 

If it "works" you will notice a decrease in arousal.

 

I also do that one during daily life if I have unexpected sexual energy

 

It's much more difficult when close to orgasm or with a partner. Not so much because it's "more difficult" to do, I find mental its more difficult to "want" to do it. Other sensations occupying on the mind So getting the timing "wrong" may require a more forceful physical contraction. Like drew posted. I have had this method work with wrong timing and just past the point of no return) but it's very physical.

 

Drew. A ? If it wasn't for feeling they are "perves" could you circulate energy male - male? While I have no desire for a physical relationship (we look funny naked ) I "Think" that you should be able to circulate energy, although it may feel different to male female. Unsure.

 

A question from me. I find if I'm practicing standing up and contract very strongly I sometimes get a strong pressure sensation in the head, occasionally bordering on painful. Accompanied with reduction in vision, approaching blackout or sometimes full blackout and dizziness.

 

It's quite euphoric but I worry how "painful" it actually is (you know how when aroused pain sensations get a bit confused) could be ramping up the blood pressure a lot.

[Fletch]

Hope it's okay to reopen this discussion. I've experimented with this a lot and im getting quite stressed out about it. I just find it impossible to contract the tailbone muscle without having the bulbospongiosus muscle (lying along the peroneum) seem to contract a little too. I contract lightly and can produce the contraction force predominantly between the tailbone and anus, but if i touch the peroneum with my fingers at the same time i can still feel the bulbosp. muscle contracting, or at least being pulled. It's a little hard to tell whether it's actually contracting or perhaps just being pulled back (since I think all these muscles are interconnected) due to the force of the anal contraction. But being unsure of this whilst continuing to do it worries me because the whole point of me doing this is to try to divert energy away from the prostate/bulbospongiosus, to give me more control over urgency. Strengthening the bulbosp. muscle further is only going to worsen my problems of tightness, strain and twitchiness down there which are hampering my ability to last during sex.

 

I've read everything on Dr Lin's website and Alchemical Taoism and I'm a bit lost now. Is it actually possible to do the anal contractions with ZERO movement of muscles running along the peroneal area (ie. bulbospongiosus)? Does anyone have any further advice? What about methods for tackling heat, tightness and twitchiness in the prostate and bulbosp. muscle?

 

Thanks in advance.

Fletch

[Seth Ananda]

Hope it's okay to reopen this discussion. I've experimented with this a lot and im getting quite stressed out about it. I just find it impossible to contract the tailbone muscle without having the bulbospongiosus muscle (lying along the peroneum) seem to contract a little too. I contract lightly and can produce the contraction force predominantly between the tailbone and anus, but if i touch the peroneum with my fingers at the same time i can still feel the bulbosp. muscle contracting, or at least being pulled. It's a little hard to tell whether it's actually contracting or perhaps just being pulled back (since I think all these muscles are interconnected) due to the force of the anal contraction. But being unsure of this whilst continuing to do it worries me because the whole point of me doing this is to try to divert energy away from the prostate/bulbospongiosus, to give me more control over urgency. Strengthening the bulbosp. muscle further is only going to worsen my problems of tightness, strain and twitchiness down there which are hampering my ability to last during sex.

 

I've read everything on Dr Lin's website and Alchemical Taoism and I'm a bit lost now. Is it actually possible to do the anal contractions with ZERO movement of muscles running along the peroneal area (ie. bulbospongiosus)? Does anyone have any further advice? What about methods for tackling heat, tightness and twitchiness in the prostate and bulbosp. muscle?

 

Thanks in advance.

Fletch

Hi Fletch, My thought is don't worry too much If you are mainly working the Anal sphincter muscles at the tail bone side, you cant go wrong with a tiny little associative nerve reflex triggering a tiny P.C. contraction. You may one day learn to Isolate completely, but probably not and that's O.K. It is completely different to achieving injaculation with hard P.C. focused clenches. Find what works for you and Practice Practice Practice

[Mal]

[Fletch]

Thanks for the quick responses guys. I'll practice and keep trying to isolate it - if i get success in the end ill let you know. Thanks again