Master Kwan Sai-Hung

[WhiteTiger]

Thank you very much for making this a little more clear. Especially to me.

 

However I want to be extremely clear on this I'm not claiming its false or true!

 

Peace,

WTiger

 

Clearly states and means I have absolutely no clue weather its true or false. Never met the man to be honest.

 

Peace,

WTiger

[宁]

Of course you don't tell a kid that Santa Claus doesn't exist but you expect a grown up to give ol' Santa the right value in the scale of things, no ?

So unless some of the posters here are below the age of 10 I think that giving correct information is useful. What people does with that info then, eventually confirms whether they are above 10 or not

 

YM

 

Of course.

Yet, I wouldn't do that if I were you (which I'm not )

I'd rather offer different options and show what benefit can each of them yield.

This way everyone has an option...

...AND, by doing things this way, we don't have to use cynicism for humour.

They are very different.

It'd be a good reason for an authentic smile.

"People don't care care about what you know know,

until they know know that you care care."

(Can't remember who said it)

 

 

L1

 

later edit: on Opening the Dragon Gate - the best quote from the book would be the following *paraphrasing*:

 

"the study of daoism on nature, heaven-man-earth, is evolving and changing in time, because the world itself is changing, always.. what could be used 1000 years ago, it's slightly different than what is needed to be used today, both in understanding and practice... and it is the responsability and the priviledge of the future generations to do this immense work, of re-interpreting and getting things to work in a proper way, in a new setting of this everchanging world. "

 

do you have any idea what this means??

 

to me, i believe that the rules, regulations and specific knowledge of daoism are put there as general markings upon which the student of Dao has to work following his inner voice of the Dao, to discover new meanings and aplications.

doing things to the letter is what only wise men can do.

but it takes a real genius, from those fiew wise men, to take things creatively, with great respect and responsability though.

Edited May 25, 2009 by Little1

[YMWong]

The fact that the description of Hua Shan written in the novel may well have been based on

Morrison's photograph is really neither here nor there. Deng Ming Dao states on his website

(http://www.dengmingdao.com) that the books are a biographical novel based on stories told

by Kwan Saihung when Deng Ming Dao was studying under 'Kwan Saihung'. Since it is a novel

based on stories, and not a word for word auotbiography, I would guess that Deng Ming Dao may

have used Hedda Morrison's book 'Hua Shan' as a reference for trying to make descriptions

of Hua Shan in his novels more realistic. So, since the novels were written by Deng Ming Dao,

this description of Hua Shan likely does not not reflect on 'Kwan Saihung' in any way.

Finding inaccuracies or evidence of things being made up in Deng Ming Dao's

novels is to be expected, since they are just novels.

 

However, whether the person calling himself Kwan Saihung is who he says he is, and whether the stories

he told Deng Ming Dao were true or not, or whether he is really "Frank Erik Kwai, born in NYC in 1946"

and is "half German" as some have claimed, is another matter.

 

I am quite sure, and somebody with an original edition of DMD's work might confirm (?), that nowhere were the original books presented as "novel". The explanations were later introduced after Kai was found (and was clearly not octuagenarian) and the first reviews like that of Anderson were written.

Given that Kai was born in the US and was half the age he was supposed to be one is left to wonder how much "biographical" can be the (then) novel written by DMD ...

 

YM

[11:33]

Thanks for noting this guys. I was thinking of seeking him out in Massachusetts, since I'm in RI, thinking he was a classically trained Taoist... Now I am thinking otherwise

[Iskote]

...

Edited June 7, 2009 by Iskote

[宁]

i don't know about you guys, but i like a good imitation when i see one...

it happens in nature too, check this out, it's really awsome

 

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Gerard]

Nice vid!

[11:33]

That video was impressive. I guess imitation is one of the many ways of the Tao. Tht bird could impersonate cameras, and chainsaws, amazing!

[林愛偉]

The fact that the description of Hua Shan written in the novel may well have been based on

Morrison's photograph is really neither here nor there. Deng Ming Dao states on his website

(http://www.dengmingdao.com) that the books are a biographical novel based on stories told

by Kwan Saihung when Deng Ming Dao was studying under 'Kwan Saihung'. Since it is a novel

based on stories, and not a word for word auotbiography, I would guess that Deng Ming Dao may

have used Hedda Morrison's book 'Hua Shan' as a reference for trying to make descriptions

of Hua Shan in his novels more realistic. So, since the novels were written by Deng Ming Dao,

this description of Hua Shan likely does not not reflect on 'Kwan Saihung' in any way.

Finding inaccuracies or evidence of things being made up in Deng Ming Dao's

novels is to be expected, since they are just novels.

 

However, whether the person calling himself Kwan Saihung is who he says he is, and whether the stories

he told Deng Ming Dao were true or not, or whether he is really "Frank Erik Kwai, born in NYC in 1946"

and is "half German" as some have claimed, is another matter.

 

 

hahaha OMG! I wonder if this is the same Kwan Sai Hung in Massachusetts... hmmmm I heard many stories from people who studied with this man. Some said he was short, almost 120yrs old and very Chinese....hahaha

 

maybe its an impostor...hahaha or maybe he is a shape shifter too. I also heard the man is very powerful... Had a chance to meet him, but was too busy at my school to leave for a day. No fate so far...

 

When I meet him, if ever... I'll be glad to write a few.

 

Peace,

Lin

[YMWong]

Again, it suffices to see his old website (here is the 2002 version)

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20021016172700/...g/biography.htm

 

Biography

 

Kwan Sai-Hung was born in ShaanXi province 1920. At the age of 9 his rebellious nature landed him on the steps of HuaShan monastery. There he studied Taoist philosophy and Qigong practices.

 

[here the caption say "Kwan Sai-Hung circa. 1985" i.e. he was 65 in this pic ]

 

Kwan Sai-Hung was born into a prominent martial arts family. Most of his Martial Arts training was given to him by traveling Masters who were visiting his grandfather.

 

 

While still in the monastery, Kwan Sai-Hung became restless and longed to see the world. Seeing this his master told him that he should search for his answers outside the monastery, that temple life was not for him. During his travels, Kwan Sifu met two Wandering Taoists. It is to these two that he credits his deeper understanding of Living Taoism.

 

 

YM

Edited May 26, 2009 by YMWong

[11:33]

I assume outright lying is not a trait of a Taoist disciple?

 

I looked at his old site and that kind of outright lying makes my stomach churn.

Edited May 26, 2009 by 11:33

[YMWong]

I assume outright lying is not a trait of a Taoist disciple?

 

What can I say, this is his BIOGRAPHY from HIS OWN website ...

 

 

YM

[11:33]

What can I say, this is his BIOGRAPHY from HIS OWN website ...

 

 

YM

 

Yes, I understand... I am a little disappointed. I thought I might be able to find him in Massachusetts, but now I know he's a fraud... C'est la vie!

[Hugo_M]

.........The latter publication contains the biography of one Kwan Saihung, a teacher of martial arts somewhere in the United States, who was ostensibly brought up on Huashan and there initiated into the Zhengyi Huashan sect (sic). The biography is presented as based on stories allegedly told by the master himself.

YM

 

Thanks YM for your help Now i have no plans to train whit him or buy his books.

 

Any way i wonder do you belive these books have words or histories that are true?

 

What do you mean by: The biography is presented as based on stories allegedly told by the master himself.?

 

I must say i like very much this history:

 

http://www.taichiherb.com/index.php?fuseac...phantchronicles

 

I always wonder why when i ask Grand Master Wang Ziping family about if they know something about Master Kwan Sai-Hung they never said a comment about him! It makes me feel if he was really a family friend then they should know him right?

 

Any way i know one of Grand Master Wang Ziping daughter is writing a book about Master Wang Ziping so maybe we can have more info in the future or then we can see there is not info at all about Master Kwan Sai-Hung.

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

 

WT,

 

Deng mingdao's books has been published and republished, so I guess you are reading a different edition to the one criticized by Anderson (possibly a later edition ?).

 

YM

 

I also wonder why Master Kwan Sai-Hung painted some pictures of these Hua Shan Masters in the first printed book: seven bamboo table? If the book is not real why paint these pictures?

[Hugo_M]

.......... I have heard rumors of embellishment and poor translation, but they might have come from Sean Denty (I can't recall...).

 

I had read in Shen Verdesi's homepage or forum that the book:

 

Opening the Dragon Gate: The Making of a Modern Taoist Wizard by Chen Kaiguo, Zheng Shunchao, and Thomas Cleary

 

is not good translated

 

so that is why i wait for a good translation so i can buy it in spanish

 

i want to learn chinese so i can read it but then were to buy it then

 

I have never compared the original edition with Cleary's translation side-by-side but in terms of content they are basically the same, for as much as I can recall. We read the original edition a few years before the english version, which I bought but never really find the time to read in depth.

The original was not a hit on the local market, at all, a book printed in many copies but seldom seen on any bookshelf around. Probably for this reason there was never much 'reviewing' as it was never a best-seller like Deng Ming Dao in the west.

I don't particolarly like it either but, as always, it is more a matter of personal tastes I guess

 

YM

 

thanks for your feels

 

 

Thanks for the reference. I look forward to reading it.

 

Peace,

WTiger

 

i recommed better this one:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Gallery-Chinese-Immo...9414&sr=1-1

[Hugo_M]

I have hear from a very good source that the best way to know if Master Kwan Sai-Hung had train whit Grand Master Wang Ziping is to ask Dr. Wu Chengde.

 

My very good source said to me:

 

In regards to Wang Ziping, I would suggest that you contact his only surviving indoor disciple and son-in-law, Dr. Wu Chengde. If anyone alive has the information you seek, it would be the elderly Dr. Wu.

 

http://www.taijikungfuhealth.com/dr_wu_chengde.htm

 

He can be reached here:

 

 

Houston TaijiKungfu Health Academy

 

6515 B Corporate Drive

Houston, Texas 77036 or call: 713-272-0018

Good luck to you in your research!

 

But i can not call him is to expensive for me(i live in Sweden) so i hope some USA tao forum member do if not then i going to try to write a letter to dear Dr. Wu.

 

Regards

Edited May 27, 2009 by HugoOlivaresMila

[gendao]

But I have also been told that Kwan Sai-Hung's chi kung is top notch so maybe don't focus on the stories or the man but just the methods. The few sets that I have learned that were to have passed from KSH I find to be quite powerful. Paul Gallagher in Asheville, NC used to teach some of KSH's stuff and have some videos. Paul Gallagher is steeped in the Taoist arts if someone is looking for a good teacher in that part of the country.

Yea, I was pretty sure Deng Ming-Dao and his stories were largely a fictional literary account by Frank Erik Kwai.

 

However, I know some people who had met Frank (I think Oscar, for example) and said he had good physical health and some martial skill. So, I wouldn't call him a total fraud or "waste."

 

Anyhow, "Opening the Dragon Gate" is probably far more veritable, really being based upon a true story, although with some artistic license used...

[Hugo_M]

y e a

 

[jak3b]

y e a

 

Awsome pic!,

As far as Kwan Sai Hung?,Who knows.I knew an acpuncturist years ago here in San Francisco, I used to have a beer with now and then in China Town.He was from Beijing,Came to the US after 1949 by way of Taiwan. I remember one conversation where he talked about what a massive tragedy the cultural revolution was.All his teachers died.He said they lost so much during that time.Very few of them got out.It makes me wonder how much really survived all that intact.I feel the Traveling Shaolin Monks and the Wudang training camps are are along the same line as DMD's book, mostly a romaticised fiction created to sell the "New China".My friend did make an interesting point when I told him I loved reading history,He said to understand Chinese history read Chinese Mythology,because "history" was rewritten or destroyed with the change of every dynasty,while the myths retained the essence and spirit of the Chinese peoples story.

[Hugo_M]

Awsome pic!,

 

for you my friend; thanks pararararar for the info

 

ps. parararar parararara:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F5w2Bvdx7I...598&index=4

 

[goldisheavy]

Of course you don't tell a kid that Santa Claus doesn't exist but you expect a grown up to give ol' Santa the right value in the scale of things, no ?

YM

 

I think it's fair to say that Santa does not exist only if you are fair and mention all the other things that also don't exist. On the other hand, if you say Santa is imagination and cars and chairs are real, you are lying and doing the person a disservice.

 

Either nothing exists or it all does. When you begin to pick what exists and what does not, you are doing nothing other than forming or reinforcing your own reality validation framework, which is a samsaric and binding mental construct and nothing else.

[TaoTeChing]

.....

Edited July 9, 2010 by TaoTeChing

[rooftopper]

This Mr. Kwan is the person I had studied Tai Chi from for the last ten years off and on. I am not the sort to care much about what was written or what was said about anyone else. I prefer to see for myself and make my own decisions. Mr Kwan has shown me and others a lot of forms with little to no sparring. He sounds knowledgable as questions regarding these forms and thier applications are always answered thoroughly and specifically. I never took much if any Martial arts before so I am perhaps not a qualified judge of these things. As to Mr K's abilities, I do not think I could 'beat him up' and anything further than that is something I consider none of my buisness. Or someone elses problem if you will. I do not really care what Mr Kwan or Frank Kai or whoever this gentleman is to others. He has exhibited compassion and friendship towards myself and others. I have seen this. I also have seen that Mr Kwan is a human being too. Not some arhart, saint or archangel decended to earth to help out folks with thier Martial Arts. If people want to set him on a pedestal to knock him off it (good luck) or mourn his fall from thier grace, this is not Mr, K's problem. To me anyways. This "I really do not care about credentials, what I get out of something personally counts most." attitude that I am trying to express is one that works for me. I do not wish to imply that it should work for anyone else. In other words, I like Mr. Kwan. As far as I am concerned, everyone else can make up thier own mind. As it is, not everyone likes me. I expect it would be the same for Mr. Kwan. His teaching style is, what I think, a traditional one. Emphisis is on paying attention and if you miss something, oh well, sorry about your bad luck. I have learned to learn in this manner or style of teaching that I have seen frustrate others. A little. I have learned less Martial Arts from him than I have learned to consider and somewhat accept this teaching style. This alone is value to me. At fiftyone, I can say that I have gained both emotionally and physically from my association with Mr Kwan. Others may not have. And for various reasons too. Different strokes for different folks. And FYI, the attitude that someone 'chooses' to take classes from this man should be considering that his classes are attended according to Mr. Kwan's choosing as well. He has refused students, kicked them out of class and pokes fun at all, including himself. In other words, Prima Donna's need not apply. As it has been said that life is an illusion, what may next be considered is; Are we being 'illusioned'? or are we 'illusioning' ourselves? rt

[Elohim]

 

 

".. The latter publication contains the biography of one Kwan Saihung, a teacher of martial arts somewhere in the United States, who was ostensibly brought up on Huashan and there initiated into the Zhengyi Huashan sect (sic). The biography is presented as based on stories allegedly told by the master himself "

 

 

 

YM

 

sorry my english is not so good, i just wonder what do it means? do this mean that Kwan Saihung was really learning at Huashan? What Master himselft?

[shanlung]

I thought I will just kick this up as companion to what I just written

in Deng & Blofield works, is it ethical?

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27637-deng-blofield-works-is-it-ethical/

 

 

Idiotic Taoist