Hua Hu Ching

[Mal]

Hua Hu Ching

 

If we ever finish the 40 verses (no rush it's heavy going sometimes) I'd like to work through this one

 

Link posted for reference

[paulthefeeder]

I've been reading a chapter or two of the Hua Hu Ching in my daily practice and find Walker's translation quite good (is there another translation available?). I find some translations, such as certain versions of the Tao Te Ching to be impenetrable.

 

Anyone want to share a favourite chapter of the Hua Hu Ching?

 

I enjoyed this one this morning:

 

50

"What good is it to spend your life accumulating material things? It isn't in keeping with the Tao. What benefit in conforming your behavior to someone's conventions? It violates your nature and dissipates your energy. Why separate your spiritual life and your practical life? To an integral being, there is no such distinction. Live simply and virtuously, true to your nature, drawing no line between what is spiritual and what is not. Ignore time. Relinquish ideas and concepts. Embrace the Oneness. This is the Integral Way."

 

 

Uh huh.

Edited February 16, 2009 by paulthefeeder

[shontonga]

I've been reading a chapter or two of the Hua Hu Ching in my daily practice and find Walker's translation quite good (is there another translation available?). I find some translations, such as certain versions of the Tao Te Ching to be impenetrable.

 

Anyone want to share a favourite chapter of the Hua Hu Ching?

 

I enjoyed this one this morning:

 

50

"What good is it to spend your life accumulating material things? It isn't in keeping with the Tao. What benefit in conforming your behavior to someone's conventions? It violates your nature and dissipates your energy. Why separate your spiritual life and your practical life? To an integral being, there is no such distinction. Live simply and virtuously, true to your nature, drawing no line between what is spiritual and what is not. Ignore time. Relinquish ideas and concepts. Embrace the Oneness. This is the Integral Way."

Uh huh.

 

Like that. Thanks.

 

This one hit home pretty well these days!

 

Nice to meet you Paul the feeder!

Have fun with the bums!

... they can eat alot???

 

Oh, sorry here it is !

 

"Eighty

 

The world is full of half-enlightened masters. Overly clever, too "sensitive" to live in the real world, they surround themselves with selfish pleasures and bestow their grandiose teachings upon the unwary. Prematurely publicizing themselves, intent upon reaching some spiritual climax, they constantly sacrifice the truth and deviate from the Tao. What they really offer the world is their own confusion. The true master understands that enlightenment is not the end, but the means. Realizing that virtue is her goal, she accepts the long and often arduous cultivation that is necessary to attain it. She doesn't scheme to become a leader, but quietly shoulders whatever responsibilities fall to her. Unattached to her accomplishments, taking credit for nothing at all, she guides the whole world by guiding the individuals who come to her. She shares her divine energy with her students, encouraging them, creating trials to strengthen them, scolding them to awaken them, directing the streams of their lives toward the infinite ocean of the Tao. If you aspire to this sort of mastery, then root yourself in the Tao. Relinquish your negative habits and attitudes. Strengthen your sincerity. Live in the real world, and extend your virtue to it without discrimination in the daily round. Be the truest father or mother, the truest brother or sister, the truest friend, and the truest disciple. Humbly respect and serve your teacher, and dedicate your entire being unwaveringly to self-cultivation. Then you will surely achieve self-mastery and he able to help others in doing the same. "

 

LOL , Yeah ... i have issues

Live in a crazy sorta world

and This one just really hit home!!!

Some goodish, some baddish,

but so, so much halfa_sedness!

Been making me crazy.

So I share it with all of you!

Your so lucky! LOL

 

Hmm?

To long for a bumper sticker you think?

 

 

Stay well,

Shon

Edited February 16, 2009 by shontonga

[Mal]

[paulthefeeder]

[taocultivator]

I found this link to Brian Walker's version. The 81 Chapters are found here. No need to purchase the book.

http://www.cheraglibrary.org/taoist/hua-hu-ching.htm

Edited February 17, 2009 by taocultivator

[Mal]

Thanks, pretty sure it was your original post that I pinched the link from in post #1

 

These online books seem to generate the best discussions. Care to share a favourite verse?

[taocultivator]

Thanks, pretty sure it was your original post that I pinched the link from in post #1

 

These online books seem to generate the best discussions. Care to share a favourite verse?

 

Let me see if I can find something on old age and loss of memory.

[contrivedname!]

i enjoyed hua hu ching when i first read it (and still do) i initially was drawn to Brian Walker's because it said "the unknown teachings of lao tzu" from my narrow experience i would poist that it seems to have too much of a buddhist influence to be by lao tzu (and i read that somewhere too). i also understand that brian walker didnt actually translate it per se, he interpreted it from hua ching ni's translation

 

"Although traditionally attributed to Laozi, most scholars believe it is a forgery because there are no historical references to the text until the early 4th century CE." from wikipedia

 

however, even given the above factoids, i still found this text to be an interesting synthesis of daoism and buddhism. to me it seems to lean more towards the side of doing good and has some karmic ideas therein. if this discussion continues, i will reread (its been months) it.

 

i would like to bring up these questions for discussion:

 

what similarities do you find this book to have in common with the dao de jing or zhuangzi? what differences?

 

if you buy what i said about buddhist influence, what do you see as examples of that in the text? or if you dont think that would you care to refute my position?

 

does anyone seem some similarities btwn this text and The Liezi (especially given the fact that most scholars date them to nearly the same era)?

 

chris

 

edit: oops, by lazily glossing over mal's post i noticed he already mentioned the "forgery" potentiality, but i feel the same way about wisdom that you said, much the same has been said about the liezi, which is usually considered one of daoism's "primary" text

Edited March 21, 2009 by contrivedname!

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I have the translation by Hua-Ching Ni.

Just thought I would share.

 

 

There seems to be a lot o similarities between both translated versions of the Hua Hu Ching

Edited June 27, 2009 by TheWhiteRabbit

[vx3.taoist]

i read the hua hu ching somewhat regularly. i found delight in the straing forwardness of the book, as compaired to the tao te ching, which seemed very... riddle-like to me.

 

possibility of forgery, sounding like buddhism, those things dont seem really that important. they dont change the content of the book and they dont change the fact that the things within must be properly understood and applied to be of any use...

 

well, maybe the above concepts might matter if you're a historian... not like thats bad or anything

 

 

one of the bigger problems i did run into with the hua hu ching was my own need for properly understanding some of the more obscure things the book sets out.

 

for example chapter Fifty-Five which outlines 17 holistic practices that i've just never heard of. its nice to know they exist, but dear god its not like i'll be able to find and learn this stuff!

[Mal]

Fifty-Five

 

The holistic practices of the ancient masters integrate science, art, and personal spiritual development. Mind, body, and spirit participate in them equally. They include:

Yi Yau, the healing science which incorporates diagnosis, acupuncture, herbal medicine, therapeutic diet, and other methods;

Syang Ming, the science which predicts a person's destiny by observing the outward physical manifestations of his face, skeleton, palms, and voice;

Feng Shui, the science of discerning the subtle energy rays present in a geographic location to determine whether they will properly support the activities of a building or town constructed there;

Fu Kua, the observation of the subtle alterations of yin and yang for the purpose of making decisions which are harmonious with the apparent and hidden aspects of a situation. The foundation of Fu Kua and of all Taoist practice is the study of the I Ching, or Book of Changes.

Nei Dan, Wai Dan, and Fang Jung, the sciences of refining one's personal energy through alchemy, chemistry, and the cultivation of balanced sexual energy;

Tai Syi, the science of revitalization through breathing and visualization techniques;

Chwun Shi, the transformation of one's spiritual essence through keeping one's thoughts in accord with the Divine Source;

Shu-Ser, the attunement of one's daily life to the cycle of universal energy rays;

Bi Gu, the practice of fasting on specific days in order to gather life energy emanating from the harmonized positions of certain stars;

Sau Yi, the science of embracing integral transcendental oneness in order to accomplish conception of the 'mystical pearl';

Tai Chi Ch'uan, the performance of physical exercises to induce and direct energy flows within the body to gain mastery of body, breath, mind, the internal organs, and life and death;

Fu Chi, the science of reforming and refining one's energy with pure food and herbs;

Chuan Se, the inner visualization of the unity of one's inner and outer being;

'Dzai Jing, the purification of one's energy through ascetic practices;

Fu Jou, the drawing of mystical pictures and the writing and recital of mystical invocations for the purpose of evoking a response from the subtle realm of the universe;

Tsan Syan, the process of dissolving the ego and connecting with the Great Oneness through the study of classical scriptures and daily dialogue with an enlightened master;

Lyou Yen and Chi Men, the mystical sciences of energy linkage for the purpose of influencing external affairs.

 

Of these, the most important for beginners is the study of the I Ching, which enables one to perceive the hidden influences in every situation and thus establish a balanced and spiritually evolved means of responding to them. All are instruments for attaining the Tao. To study them is to serve universal unity, harmony, and wisdom.

 

Yep lots of strange stuff in there. They all sound quite intresting and I wonder if some of them are under different names now. Oh well at least I practice Tai Chi

[mattmiddleton]

could anyone tell me about this tomes authorship and history please?

[Mal]

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Such a great thread!

Thanks!

[EagleShen]

Just for the record, if i remember correctly from Hua-Ching Ni's version (which i love, and this thread has inspired me to dig it out and read it again), he states his version is an oral tradition that's been passed down in his family. Also re the very different writing in regards to the Tao De Ching, this was actually written by Laotzu (whether a singular or collective person), whereas the Hua Hu Ching is a third person's recollection of a conversation/teaching. As an example, I'm sure if we had something that Jesus had actually written, it would be very different in many respects to the third person perspectives on what he said that we have now. It is quite likely that this text did spend a long time, centuries most likely, as an oral tradition before ever being written down, and thus would likely be influenced over time.

Also Hua-Ching Ni says that the book was mostly stamped out of existence (hence being preserved as an oral tradition in his family) as the original was framed as a dialogue between Lao Tzu and 'the prince'. Apparently Buddhists took exception to this as they thought that the Taoists were implying that Lao Tzu had been the Buddha's (ie the prince) teacher.

[Mal]

[Mal]

This book lives beside my bed

 

Wow 2013 and it's still in the small pile of treasured books beside my bed !

 

... not to be confused with the 3 (larger) piles of "looks interesting must read it" and countless piles of books that are trying to get off the floor and find a home in the bookshelfs