Stereotypes and Generalities

[thelerner]

To what extent are we crazy(in good and not so good ways)? Are practitioners of unusual energy meditations crazier then most? From piss drinking to sun gazing to organ smiling? Concepts of immortality and enlightenment? Hmmn.

 

What generalities do we share? Searching harder then then the average person or just in stranger places?

 

Peace

 

Michael

[Yoda]

Kids and animals are sane, adults are nuts--they have lost sensitivity to their feelings. Chikung is a way to learn to get in touch with the natural energy flow that we are all born with.

 

-Yoda, the wisest mofo on Degoba.

[monucka]

To what extent are we crazy?

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My thought is that from taoist alchemical and buddhist perspectives, most all beings are stone mad. There is socially acceptable neurosis, but it's still neurosis, and those who awaken from those mental states are considered sages, saints, etc. As for qigong, I think that a lot of what pass for practices have delusional aspects to them, some more than others. "Mind regulating mind" is one of those warnings that come up a lot in old schooly texts, as a reference to trying to control mental states by layering other states on top of the underlying issues, which can lead to madness. In Jungian terms that would be something like supression/substitution: the underlying projections are not integrated, they're just layered with a thin patina of "spirituality" until situations cause them to appear in a strong form, often inappropriately. In that regard, I don't think "we" as a bunch of posters necessarily share much besides a common field of inquiry to address our perceived problems and lacks. There are widely differing ideas even of those problems, and of what internal work consists of. Thus the motivation to practice may be very different from person to person, and success and progress as well. I suspect that many of us are spiritual hobbyists, otherwise we wouldn't check in here every day. - no expert

[Lozen]

I have to wonder about this... My goal is to become MORE sane, grounded, etc. not to be more crazy. When I look at a lot of alchemy and qi gong teachers and practioners, I can't say that I would like to move towards their type of behavior, which seems to border on insanity at times... (Ken Cohen is my exception that proves the rule...) I have seen people make incredible changes but many of them tend to vacillate back to their original imbalance because the changes were made too quickly... I do not want to move more qi if it will separate me from the community I live in and wish to serve. I think I was attracted to it because TCM five element theory makes a LOT of sense to me and because I want a language and series of concepts to guide my (unwanted) spiritual experiences... however, I feel like if I can't describe a practice to someone on the street and have it make sense to them why it's a good idea, maybe it isn't... In the past I have deluded myself into thinkign I was being really spiritual and getting enlightened but when you looked at my behavior.... I just think people should be able to answer the questions "What are my goals with this practice?" and "Why?"

[GrandTrinity]

Like I told a local qi gong teacher of the healing tao who I told I would like ot get certified:

 

"When we try to get all these certifications we could loose the big picture, trying to learn all these forms" I said, "its not the forms we ae trying to obtain"

 

But so many people just get confined to the forms and the microcosm/macrcosm tha they forget what is in between!

 

Remeber, there are many people starving to death in Africa!

 

Thats what it comes down to? What are you doing in reality (the earth, the world) to better humanity!?!?!?!?!?!

 

Good question, thelerner. I think the point is to keep an eye on the BIG PICTURE and keep returning to that question.

 

Pehraps immortality is perfectly attainable, but only if we come to this WITH our peers.

 

Nanotechnology is going to make a new paradigm, all of our sins and virtues will be exposed, as they are, right now, every moment, psychic channels reveal all.

 

Call me crazy but Im just trying to channel compassion. So yeah, I guess that is crazy in a good way (while trying to minimize crazy-in-a-bad-way by true meditation, posture and movement).

[thelerner]

Its good to keep coming back to the heart center. Compassion, kindness backed by acts.

 

HT and Taoism has the concept of natural/organic righteousness. Without trying or thinking or reward, the natural man on the path just is righteous.

 

So it can't be taught and it can easily over looked by those either not on the path, are looking for the path or are are clueless. Organized religion(western?) gives at least powerful lip service to good deeds and more often then not puts some petal to the metal. Our hospitals, orphanages, bigger charities have roots in the best of religion.

 

Taoism and New Ageism, don't need such arcane things. No right, wrong or absolutes. Heck if your an orphan, your parents wanted to be hit by that piano. Losing them was the best thing that could happen to you. Hmn, thats more new ageism then taoist.

 

How does the taoist view the orphan? Hopefully w/ compassion.

[GrandTrinity]

Yeah I think taoism has been grown by other religions. Its all a matter of perspective. If you let it grow it then it grows it, definetly the heart center balances it...something its easy to forget sometimes.

[Cameron]

At this juncture I view "Taoist practices" most importantly as a health promoting and life enhancing activity. Remember, chinese medicine and herbology were created by the taoists .The Tao, to me, is being in balance yourself and then in balance with the rest of the universe.

 

At a fundamental level Taoist practice can help to balance emotions, improve health, strengthen one's will and volition to accomplish one's goals in life. Every taoist practice I have learned, from standing meditation to fusion of the 5 elements to tai chi to sexuality to herbology to I Ching, appears to be about living in balance and harmony with the tao. the Universe.

 

One of the major drawbacks from what I can percieve is Tao shines brightest in it's effectiviness and success at PREVENTION .from the taoist perspoctive when you have starving children and wars and awful things like that you have basically already lost the Tao. The situation is unbalanced to say the least.

 

If everyone in the world took up Tao you would have a world where people rarely if ever got sick, learned how to live in harmony with nature and create societies where everyone has a place. But Utopia is something we really need to realize more than achieve. It is a long hard sturuggle but tao says it does not neccissarily have to be a long hard struggle. In many ways we make it a long hard struggle ourselves and then have to do all the work to repair the ramifications of the long hard stuggle.

 

Buddhism gives answers by saying everything that happens is karma but then the question arises how can we overcome Karma and cause society as a whole to overcome karma? In many ways you are right the Christian church/Catholic church and probably other huge institutions give tremendously. But maybe it balances out at a higher level. Maybe all the giving and charity these organizations do is to make up for teaching false teacheings. Teaching people less that what we might call the truth. I am not saying this is so but clearly most all major world religions have quite a few gaps. Just as Taoism has many gaps. As a whole it provides more questions to more answers for me that Christianity or Islam or even buddhism but there are still areas of deep questioning for someone with a sensitive or spiritual mind. Why do beings have to suffer? Why is life heaven for some an hell for others?

 

Of course then you get the Taoist sentiment that I have heard and respect alot that you really need to work on yourself. That you balance out the "microcosm" that is "you" and that is as much as you can do to serve the rest of the universe. If everyone worked earnestly on balancing thmselves out and improving there own qualtieies, devleping the 3 treasures and being a help in the community that you live in. Serving when neccissary but not becasue you have to or think it will bring you blessings but because it is the way. It should be the way anyhow. Obviously in some other places in the world "communities" it may not be the way.

 

For me, these are deep questions to ask oneself throughout one's life. Sort of like a zen koan. Perhaps suddenly these things make perfect sense. Perhaps.

[neimad]

To what extent are we crazy(in good and not so good ways)?  Are practitioners of unusual energy meditations crazier then most?  From piss drinking to sun gazing to organ smiling?  Concepts of immortality and enlightenment?  Hmmn.

 

What generalities do we share?  Searching harder then then the average person or just in stranger places?

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i'd like to share an idea that may perhaps seem a little unusual and will probably raise a fair amount of disagreement... which is fine by me.

 

anyways taking the microcosm/macrocosm theory and using the human body as a microcosm for the universe (as we so often do, especially in taoism they do) we have a look at our blood and we see we have two types of blood cells. red blood cells and white blood cells.

 

the red blood cells carry oxygen, minerals, nutrients and other stuff around the body.

the white blood cells have a specific role seperate to the red blood cells (which make up the mass majority of blood cells) in that they are designed to target and neutralise negative entities (viruses, bacterias, fungus and other parasites) in the body. white blood cells also have a memory.

 

i'd like to apply this analogy to humanity and suggest that perhaps there are two types of humans inhabiting this planet?

 

red cells whose role seems to be to experience physical reality (carrying minerals, etc) and return this to the earth consciousness so that the entire earth consciousness can grow itself spiritually through the return of these experiences.

 

white blood cells who sense there is something more. who have an inbuilt sense or desire to know more, that they have a purpose or something they wish to reach. an example of a white blood cell is anybody posting here on this board. all of you have some kind of desire or even urgency that there is more out there and that you need to find it. if you didn't, then why would you be practicing taoism? a white blood cells purpose is to achieve that state we are all looking for, a reunion with 'god' or the universe or the force or whatever you want to call it.

by achieving this, your vibration rises and thus brings up the vibration of all those around you.

this in turn helps to disperse the negativity or dark force that pervades this dimension.... fighting the parasites!

 

anyways it's just an idea. the concept fits very well for me and explains a lot, however i still have the feeling that perhaps even red cell humans are capable of this and that perhaps they are further back along their spiritual path than the white blood cells and this is why they have no sense of urgency and are content to just plod along without desire to know more. perhaps in several lifetimes they will be ready.... that is if we experience more than one lifetime! i know that taoists believe we don't, at least not in the sense we think we do. and my teacher also thinks that we don't either.

yet i think perhaps we do, there is a higher spiritual body for every person here..... maybe, maybe not. i guess i wont know until i experience it, and i dont really care all that much either.

[GrandTrinity]

I think nobody is any more spiritual than anyone else.

 

How is that for a meditation?

[Cameron]

I think nobody is any more spiritual than anyone else.

 

How is that for a meditation?

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Nice!

[neimad]

I think nobody is any more spiritual than anyone else.

 

How is that for a meditation?

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a totally fair and nice call.

 

but is it real?

 

perhaps you kind of minsunderstand and think i am saying 'white blood cells' are better than the red ones?

 

not true.... see how long you can live without red blood cells in your body!!!!

 

no better, no worse. just different.

 

and i don't know where you live, but for me it's plenty obvious that there are two (in a very rudimentary and generalistic way) types of people around.

 

those that seek something more (which tend to be the kind of people i attract to me) and those that don't (the kind of people i find i have nothing in common with and bore me greatly).

 

think about it a while and try for yourself.

 

you can feel a fellow white blood cell within minutes of talking to them. there is just a totally different vibe from them, whether they be doing any kind of spiritual practices or not... so it's not a strength in spirit thing.

and those that are not 'white blood cells', in all likelihood you will find yourself wanting to dissapear from the conversation (unless of course they are a super-attractive member of the sex you prefer, that is).

 

in nature i think yes there is noone is more spiritual than anyone else.

but perhaps what differs is a persons drive or desire to know....?

[sean]

What generalities do we share?  Searching harder then then the average person or just in stranger places?

Great post Thelerner.

 

Sometimes i wonder wether at least part of the draw toward esotericism is a drive toward feeling somehow special, unique and "expempt" from the same rules as those we judge as ordinary and "just the rest of the herd". We have basically the same ups and downs, no? Yet maybe we get to subtly aggrandize our issues as having more spiritual significance. I think this is probably a subset of what monucka described so well, of using various spiritual concepts to hide our garbage from ourselves, or decorate it to look pretty. The Truth might be a bit more boring, and gritty and painfully mundane.

 

Come to think of it, I think this is really striking at the heart of maybe one the things we all have in common. A realization, conscious or unconscious, that we are are at least partially stuck in a sort of addictive crazy dream. And the tools of this dream, because they are part of the dream, are not going to save us. So it's basically going to take a miracle for us to wake up. So at our best we are not trying to find newer, fancier dreams to replace our old ones. We are looking for experiences that shake us awake a little more.

 

Reminds me ... I get into meme-theory on and off and there is this really cool concept of meme-cleaning memes. Most memes (especially very successful ones) are considered more or less viral and intent on replication at the hosts expense. Meme-cleaning memes, like meditation, might be a little different in that they more or less lack superfluous content except an urging for us us to examine what's really going on.

 

PS ... While we're on the topic of what we have in common, I am somewhat of a personality test junkie and have always wanted to ask this here, does anyone else know their Enneagram or MBTI types? I am a Type 4 with a 5 wing on Enneagram and INFJ on MBTI. You can take a test that will tell you what you are for both here: http://similarminds.com/embj.html

 

 

Sean.

[Yoda]

Cool test. I came out an ENFP, but I sometimes come out as INFP. And I always come out as a 9 on the enneagram. They gave me a sp/sx/so score, whatever that means. And I'm a Geminii born in the year of the Monkey--so my personality is highly variable mostly depending on my social setting and how much in the groove I am in the moment.

 

-Yoda

[thelerner]

Gee Sean, why does it always have to be me me meme w/ you?

 

Peas

 

Michael

 

Using tools of the dream to wake from the dream. Interesting.

[sean]

Cool test.  I came out an ENFP, but I sometimes come out as INFP.  And I always come out as a 9 on the enneagram.  They gave me a sp/sx/so score, whatever that means.  And I'm a Geminii born in the year of the Monkey--so my personality is highly variable mostly depending on my social setting and how much in the groove I am in the moment.

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See, and I thought I totally had you pegged as a 7 with an 8 wing. I guess you are 9 with 8.

 

I'm an Aries born in the year of the Dragon by the way.

 

Gee Sean, why does it always have to be me me meme w/ you?

[Cameron]

See, and I thought I totally had you pegged as a 7 with an 8 wing. I guess you are 9 with 8.

 

I'm an Aries born in the year of the Dragon by the way.

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I have so many aries in my life it's funny. One of my best friends actually has a Ram tatooed on his arm with ARIES on it. He said since I am a Libra and we are opposites or something that's why we are good friends. Like half my family is aries.

 

Your actually a double dragon yo!

 

THE FIRE DRAGON 1916 AND 1976

 

The Fire Dragon is a powerful force to be reckoned with. This is a Dragon doubled! The Fire Dragon can move from calm and collected to combustible in a matter of seconds. In some ways the Fire Dragon is his or her own worst enemy. These Dragons cannot help feeling they are valuable and all-knowing. When they are right their vehemence and vigor is an asset to the cause, and though they value objectivity, they do not always employ the best decision-making measures, and sometimes jump to the wrong conclusion. They also suffer from recklessness and quick tempers. Yet, when they do keep their temper, emotions, and rivaling spirit under control, they emanate a commanding influence on other people.

[Cameron]

[Cameron]

And since we are now on this topic let me add I atleast strongly suspect that Taoist practiced enable one to transcend these astrological limitations. Zen practice probably also also enables you to free yourself of karmic and astrological influences.

 

Which is why I gernerally don't put much stock in astrology.

[thelerner]

I'm not a big believer in astrology.

 

That said,

 

I'm a dragon trying to find Balance. Always close, til I wobble and over compensate.

 

Peas

 

Michael

[Yoda]

I'm mostly 9 in person--but 9s have multiple personalities and you're right... I'm more of a 7 leaning 8 on this forum.

 

-Yoda

[Lozen]

Go Aries go!

 

I am an Aries with Libra rising and moon on the cusp of Pisces/Aquarius. I have Aries in Mercury (duh) and was born in the year of the Earth Sheep. I have my full Chinese chart but nobody here would understand it. I am an extrovert, the other 3 were too close to call. And what am I on the enneagram again, Sean? The really bitchy one. I think an 8?

 

http://www.9types.com/descr/8/

http://www.authenticenneagram.com/practice...r_growth/8.html

[Lozen]

Really? Thanks! How?

 

BTW, Lozen; your list of what you want in a man really helped me out. =)

h

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[TwoTrees]

[GrandTrinity]

Regarding atrological influences, the microcosmic orbit alone can make you ovecome all that shit. I dont put much faith in tests like that, either, because they are dependant on your current frame of mind. Now regarding the red and white blood cell analogy, I think this is a good idea in that it points out the duality of people, and thats about the extent of it...