Differences between Buddhist & Taoist enlightment?

[Stigweard]

A good friend of mine has asked me about "the difference between buddhism and taoism as far as enlightment goes".

 

I have not really studied Buddhism in depth so I could not answer with great assistance. So I am looking for more perspective.

 

From a Taoist point of view:

 

"The process of spiritual attainment proceeds through six phases or levels, beginning with personality refinement and conscious refinement and culminating in becoming Tao.

 

Step One: Chi refinement and Natural Meditation as the cultivation of chi.

Step Two: Teh Tao: Receiving or discovering the path and learning the Tao.

Step Three: Wu Tao: Enlightened by Tao.

Step Four: Ming Tao: Lucidified with Tao.

Step Five: Teh Tao: Gaining Tao, and Tao also gains you. You live beyond your personal cares.

Step Six: Chen Tao: Attaining Tao. Your physical presence gradually merges with the invisible reality of Tao, but you are still able to respond, if you choose, and appear in form. You have achieved spiritual immortality, not physical immortality in the ordinary sense of a life that needs to eat, sleep, and pay taxes."

 

P65, Ni, Hua Ching, "Enrich Your Life With Virtue", Seven Star Communications, CA 1999

 

[wrathful immortal]

A good friend of mine has asked me about "the difference between buddhism and taoism as far as enlightment goes".

 

I have not really studied Buddhism in depth so I could not answer with great assistance. So I am looking for more perspective.

 

From a Taoist point of view:

 

"The process of spiritual attainment proceeds through six phases or levels, beginning with personality refinement and conscious refinement and culminating in becoming Tao.

 

Step One: Chi refinement and Natural Meditation as the cultivation of chi.

Step Two: Teh Tao: Receiving or discovering the path and learning the Tao.

Step Three: Wu Tao: Enlightened by Tao.

Step Four: Ming Tao: Lucidified with Tao.

Step Five: Teh Tao: Gaining Tao, and Tao also gains you. You live beyond your personal cares.

Step Six: Chen Tao: Attaining Tao. Your physical presence gradually merges with the invisible reality of Tao, but you are still able to respond, if you choose, and appear in form. You have achieved spiritual immortality, not physical immortality in the ordinary sense of a life that needs to eat, sleep, and pay taxes."

 

P65, Ni, Hua Ching, "Enrich Your Life With Virtue", Seven Star Communications, CA 1999

 

Hi Stigweard,

 

this is a great question, hope this helps!

 

i have studied, and been taught, both buddhist and taoist models for enlightenment. hope my reflections are of benefit

 

enlightenment is enlightenment, in an ultimate sense, whether the path is buddhist, or taoist. the language and culture, dictated by the human condition makes it seem to be different, and really, the differences are much more on the surface of the path, the deeper and further one progresses to full realization, the more it is seen as truly the same thing that everyone struggles in vain to put into external words and ideas, such is the plight of the teacher

 

many strict dogma and **** will disagree to this statement, but truly, enlightenment/dao is without perspective to hold onto, so no difference.

 

so, in essence then, what is enlightenment/union with the tao? in above steps, #6 is attaining the tao, much like enlightenment is attaining mind of buddha, but that is just a statement, what do they refer to? the simplest answer, one which holds to all definitions, and all traditions i have studied, is almost too simple.

 

*Enlightenment is the mind acheiving a stage where there is no perspective* whether it is the tao(all things, so nothing to relate it to, as in perspective), non-duality, no self or other, microcosm-macrocosm union, state of pure emptiness, etc.

 

 

 

so, on to what are the, apparent, differences, and why they are their.(especially since your question was about what is buddhist concept of enlightenment )

 

what makes the differences, is confusing what is enlightenment, and what isnt, in different traditions and methods. what i refer to as, enlightenment vs. immortality.

 

for this comparison, immortality is the cultivation of any skill above and beyond normal human expectations, including work with qi, prana, ki, any skill come manifest. enlightenment is just that.

 

every tradition, however; seems to cultivate both in some way, in fact, it is quite hard not to get some progress into immortality on the way to full enlightenment.

 

in buddhism, one first,( this is generally, since their are many branches, and 84,000 methods) works on focus, and achieving at least the first dhyana. this is the mind's ability to hold onto a single object/concept/visualization without distraction for quite some time. as progress develops in focus, intent is then applied to awareness. this is the key, being aware of all things, by utlizing that skill of focus, and the direct experience of all things(no perspective / dao eventually is Experienced).

 

with consistent effort, one can progress through the first dhyana (focus), through the 2nd, 3rd, then on to the 4th. the 4th dhyana is where it is felt that enough skill is put into focus training that the mind's visualization can then achieve results, (skills reaching into immortality).

 

so, focus and awareness, also samatha and vipassana respectively, are totally different, and skill in one has (almost) nothing to do with the other, in other words, extreme focus of the mind creates raw potential for attainment of skills/abilities, and directing focus to awareness of the arising and passing, the impermanence of all events, both internal and external, reveals the dao/ buddha mind.

 

this is the best book i have read in revealing a buddhist's perspective on enlightenment, it is a great source.

 

http://web.mac.com/danielmingram/iWeb/Dani...ok/Archive.html

 

Hope this is helpful, as it is a huge topic, and this is literally just a scratch into how far this can be taken.

[Stigweard]

I appreciate your comments wrathful immortal

[wudangquan]

I think that the best way to describe it is that you're cultivating slightly different things, to become somewhat different things . . .

 

A Tao just does different things than a Buddha. Just a different function, or role I guess.

[wrathful immortal]

 

many strict dogma and **** will disagree to this statement, but truly, enlightenment/dao is without perspective to hold onto, so no difference.

 

 

oops..... the **** was a placeholder, forgot what word i was looking for, wasnt meant to be "vulgar" meant "doctrine oriented" practitioners.

 

[林愛偉]

Enlightenment is simply Enlightenment. A Daoist gets there differently in the beginning than a Buddhist, but in truth they both have to adhere to principles that keep the mind from going wild. Both have to restrain themselves from desire, ignorance, arrogance, greed and anger.

 

The road in Daoism is through energy cultivation, and spiritual penetrations, the road through Buddhism is directly through the mind to transform the body. Depending on how the cultivator is, the process may be gradual and or sudden. Both gradual and sudden are the same, it is on ly the mind that perceives them differently.

 

Eventually a "Daoist"will be able to put down their views of self, ego, others and a lifespan and see right through to the truth that there is no beginning and no end and that all things come from the mind alone.

 

At that point, there is no more "Daoist", no more "Buddhist". As is such, the only difference between the two schools of cultivation is the attachments to views the cultivator has about the two schools. In truth, "Daoism"and "Buddhism"is simply just cultivation. All these names to it were just mundane expedients to get people to take a look at themselves and see past the illusion..which they attached themselves to and created more labels.

 

Look at how they are similar instead of different and a whole new world opens up.

 

Peace,

Lin

[Stigweard]

Beautiful as always Lin. Thank you for your comments.

 

Enlightenment is simply Enlightenment. A Daoist gets there differently in the beginning than a Buddhist, but in truth they both have to adhere to principles that keep the mind from going wild. Both have to restrain themselves from desire, ignorance, arrogance, greed and anger.

 

The road in Daoism is through energy cultivation, and spiritual penetrations, the road through Buddhism is directly through the mind to transform the body. Depending on how the cultivator is, the process may be gradual and or sudden. Both gradual and sudden are the same, it is on ly the mind that perceives them differently.

 

Eventually a "Daoist"will be able to put down their views of self, ego, others and a lifespan and see right through to the truth that there is no beginning and no end and that all things come from the mind alone.

 

At that point, there is no more "Daoist", no more "Buddhist". As is such, the only difference between the two schools of cultivation is the attachments to views the cultivator has about the two schools. In truth, "Daoism"and "Buddhism"is simply just cultivation. All these names to it were just mundane expedients to get people to take a look at themselves and see past the illusion..which they attached themselves to and created more labels.

 

Look at how they are similar instead of different and a whole new world opens up.

 

Peace,

Lin

[dwai]

A good friend of mine has asked me about "the difference between buddhism and taoism as far as enlightment goes".

 

I have not really studied Buddhism in depth so I could not answer with great assistance. So I am looking for more perspective.

 

From a Taoist point of view:

 

"The process of spiritual attainment proceeds through six phases or levels, beginning with personality refinement and conscious refinement and culminating in becoming Tao.

 

Step One: Chi refinement and Natural Meditation as the cultivation of chi.

Step Two: Teh Tao: Receiving or discovering the path and learning the Tao.

Step Three: Wu Tao: Enlightened by Tao.

Step Four: Ming Tao: Lucidified with Tao.

Step Five: Teh Tao: Gaining Tao, and Tao also gains you. You live beyond your personal cares.

Step Six: Chen Tao: Attaining Tao. Your physical presence gradually merges with the invisible reality of Tao, but you are still able to respond, if you choose, and appear in form. You have achieved spiritual immortality, not physical immortality in the ordinary sense of a life that needs to eat, sleep, and pay taxes."

 

P65, Ni, Hua Ching, "Enrich Your Life With Virtue", Seven Star Communications, CA 1999

 

 

No difference. Hinduism (especially Yoga and Advaita Vedanta and Tantra) and Buddhism teach essentially the same thing, different semantics.