Daddy Issues and Taoist Psychology

[chrisjswanson]

Hey Everyone

 

Figured I'd try this question here since I see so many points of view come up in this forum, points of view that I suspect I wouldn't get exposed to elsewhere in my life... I'd REALLY appreciate some insight on this one.

 

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Before I start I'm gonna say that this thread could bring up sensitive issues for some people, I suspect for myself as well. I want to come in touch with these issues, but others may feel they are not ready or do not wish to take this path. Since I'll be exploring issues of relationship, women will naturally come up.

 

I'd like to take the time now to pre-state that nothing I intend to say has any conscious malignant intent (towards men or women), so if anyone gets a vibe that I'm being hurtful to them, it's likely because you hit a soft spot and I'm fighting back subconsciously. Nothing personal, really, in fact I'm asking for it :-) Forgive anything now please if you can.

------------------

 

I've been looking deeply at myself and how I relate with myself and others, by writing and studying my dreams, insight meditation, I Ching, reading western Psych texts, keeping a daily journal, etc.

 

So I've noticed (don't know how I could'v missed it now) that I have a strong sexual pull towards girls that either have no relationship with their father at all, hate their father, were abused by an alcoholic father (sexually in almost every case), or some combination of these traits.

 

I would go as far as to say that EVERY girl I've had a real relationship with had an alcoholic father who most likely or surely sexually abused them.

 

Now I'd say I'm finding these girls on purpose, except that I don't have to know anything about the father situation prior to having feelings. For example:

 

If I find a friend's girl enticing, and go to that friend and ask if he suspects or knows if his girl had any of these father/(sex)abuse/alcohol issues as a child, I can be pretty much sure to be greeted with "Who the F*** told you about that? She only told me. How'd you find out?" And all I can say is I knew it was very likely, simply because I thought she was cute? What is happening here?

 

My mom's dad was an alcoholic. I was an alcoholic until just over a year ago, when I quit drinking, and at the same time removed myself from a relationship in which I was being in retrospect quite emotionally abusive.

My parents split up when I was ~16, I'm 25 and live on my mom's couch. I have a propensity for substance abuse just like the girls I'm always falling for.

 

I like to call females 'girls', not 'women', but I don't know why? I tend to be attracted to girls that are much younger than me, too. (Not talking pedophile here, just ~6-8 years younger than me). I guess this age gap is more commonly accepted around the world, but people around here (silicon valley) hate it when a 25yr old is talking to an 18yr old...

 

I know, many will say these are the issues a good shrink can help one work through. But I've had very little success with western psychiatry, they say I'm bi-polar and manic and keep trying to put me on SSRI's and mood stabilizers and anti-psychotics. If they'll put such toxic chemicals into my mouth, who knows what toxic words they might put into my ears... I trust you people more <3

 

Thanks in Advance for Insight and Advice

 

peace+love

Chris

 

P.S. Taomeow: If you spot this, I dig your ideas about memory. What do you think about repression? What's in those dark holes that I can't quite put my finger on? Do I even wanna know, is it safe, or maybe everything's forgotten eventually, some things best left gone? Is anything ever gone?

[Anabhogya-Carya]

I don't know enough to answer, but it sounds like your dealing with something Freud could answer.

[chrisjswanson]

I don't know enough to answer, but it sounds like your dealing with something Freud could answer.

 

Tell me about it. Although Wiki claims Freud's ideas have been all but proven untrue...

 

Seems like these things are common enough that there must be some mention of the phenomena of incest related psycho-sexual development patterns outside of science, more in the realm of religion.

 

I'd expect that the Vedas or some old Taoist writings probably mention these things somewhere, and may be a lot more helpful than modern psych 101.

 

peace+love

Chris

[Anabhogya-Carya]

Tell me about it. Although Wiki claims Freud's ideas have been all but proven untrue...

 

Seems like these things are common enough that there must be some mention of the phenomena of incest related psycho-sexual development patterns outside of science, more in the realm of religion.

 

I'd expect that the Vedas or some old Taoist writings probably mention these things somewhere, and may be a lot more helpful than modern psych 101.

 

peace+love

Chris

 

Well from what little knowledge I have about father related psychology, either you identify the father as a challenge (a common theme in western philosophy where one is expected to metaphorically kill there master. And a common theme in many pagan traditions, were a son kills the father) or you have problems with your own father. It also be the attraction of acting as a fatherly figure, the male support role. I myself have tended to date girls the have divorced families and live with there mothers. I personally call it the 'knight in shining armor' effect. I sometimes feel as if it is my male duty to save the girls, make things better for them, be the male power, etc.

 

But please don't take this with anymore than a grain of sand. I know little about this. And I am sure there is something in ancient thought that would be helpful.

[rookie]

Hey Chris,

 

Pretty brave of you to express that. So hang on

 

Could it be that you sense the weakness that these girls have, like a huge blind spot when it comes to men, and so you feel safer with them than with a girl who has more self-esteem or self-worth? So you can have sex/relationship with less risk?

 

Do you find a reason to break it off first?

 

Here is an experiment you could try. Make friends, or at least be friendly with some girls who are more normal in this regard. It would help if they are close to your type physically, that is physically attractive even if you are not attracted to them for this reason. See what happens when you are around them for a while.

 

Do your feelings change?

 

This is just a guess on my part, but you may feel more vunerable around them.

Try and watch your reactions when you feel vulnerable. Get to know them if you don't already.

 

In any case, regardless of what happens in this experiment, I strongly suggest just getting your house in order. Start taking steps toward physical health (no additive substances), exercise, eat right, sleep regularly. Start forgiving yourself and others. Try to heal. Little by little. Go for stability. Build a healthy self, and later you can work on loosing it.

 

I'm not sure if there is anything like it in Daoism, but I would actually suggest AA or some other offshoot of that organization.

 

I pray that you find peace and wholeness, dude

[chrisjswanson]

Well from what little knowledge I have about father related psychology, either you identify the father as a challenge (a common theme in western philosophy where one is expected to metaphorically kill there master. And a common theme in many pagan traditions, were a son kills the father) or you have problems with your own father. It also be the attraction of acting as a fatherly figure, the male support role. I myself have tended to date girls the have divorced families and live with there mothers. I personally call it the 'knight in shining armor' effect. I sometimes feel as if it is my male duty to save the girls, make things better for them, be the male power, etc.

 

But please don't take this with anymore than a grain of sand. I know little about this. And I am sure there is something in ancient thought that would be helpful.

 

Right on, so another person has this same (or similar) kinda thing happening. And it's not just us, I see the results of sexual abuse/incest father daughter issues (almost every time alcoholism is involved) all around me. I'd estimate almost 1/3 of the relationships I see around me to be suffering in some way that I intuit is related to these issues.

 

The knight in shining armor mentality applies to me as well, and seems to be an old theme in mythology. However, we see the I Ching teaching us an important lesson:

 

Both hexagrams #31 Xian (Mutual Influence) and #32 (Long Lasting) show trigrams which represent youngest daughter with youngest son, and oldest daughter with oldest son, respectively. I see these hexagrams as showing the proper way for people to interact in a relationship.

 

When Father(#1 Qian Initiating) and Mother (#2 Kun Responding) are in the right places, we see #11 Tai (Advance) , while improper positions of these trigrams shows #12 Pi (Hinderance)

 

However take the Mother (Earth) trigram and replace it with the trigram for Wind, the oldest daughter (whom is usually the victim) and we see a different picture.

 

In the case of a proper mother father (Heaven/Earth) position #11 Tai, changing the mother/earth trigram to the eldest daughter shows hexagram #9, Xiao Xu (Little Accumulation). The decision of "clouds condense, yet no rain" suggests to me a picture of Not Time Yet, and the hexagram as a whole suggests storing up one's own virtue before making advancement. At least we see "Prosperous and Smooth", however.

 

In the case of an improper mother father (heaven/earth) position #12 Pi, changing the mother/earth trigram to the eldest daughter shows hexagram #44 Gou (Encountering), and a decision which admonishes "Do not engage in marrying such a woman."

 

I see this as advice against assuming the Father role in a male-female relationship (at least in general), and perhaps (surely) more advice is hidden as to the proper way to conduct oneself in this particular arena of life.

 

Anyone, thoughts? Thanks in Advance (no pun intended :-)

 

peace+love

Chris

[chrisjswanson]

Thanks so much for sharing your ideas rookie. You are quite correct that I sometimes sense a huge "blind spot" and you might be right on the money that I feel like it's safer to engage these types. I'd go so far as to say that they lose their attraction to me to a large degree as soon as they show signs of 'health'.

 

Yes 'healthy' girls probably make me feel vulnerable, and I've long been aware that I translate it into reasons not to go around them much, especially favorite for me is blaming girls for their (maybe even biological) tendency to be attracted to guys with money or influence. For some reason I see this more in 'healthy' girls than I do in 'blind spot' girls who just want someone to take care of them, although it could be my discomfort of feeling vulnerable making me pay more attention to things I dislike in order to get me out of the unconfortable situation. I also get turned off by girls who are assertive at traditionally male things, even to the extent of things like high education and stuff. I find myself gravitating to girls who desperately want traditional roles, and again these girls seem to have the 'blind spot' syndrome most every time.

 

I'm workin on my living situation, it's complex enough that I won't fill the forum with my life. Same goes for drugs. But You are right about that too, there's some things around here I need to get in order. In Fact, the reason I've been delving into myself at all (which has led me to this conversation) is because I know that I can't get things in order until I understand better what's out of order.

 

Thanks so much for Risking sharing with me what may have pissed me off and actually probably really helped. My Love goes out to you man. I'll find my way, don't worry The Gita says "all paths lead to Me" after all :-)

 

Since I can't write my life story, I'll say this now - If anyone wants to ask me about something that could be related (or anything really) , feel free. I'm all about openness here.

 

peace+love

Chris

 

 

Hey Chris,

 

Pretty brave of you to express that. So hang on

 

Could it be that you sense the weakness that these girls have, like a huge blind spot when it comes to men, and so you feel safer with them than with a girl who has more self-esteem or self-worth? So you can have sex/relationship with less risk?

 

Do you find a reason to break it off first?

 

Here is an experiment you could try. Make friends, or at least be friendly with some girls who are more normal in this regard. It would help if they are close to your type physically, that is physically attractive even if you are not attracted to them for this reason. See what happens when you are around them for a while.

 

Do your feelings change?

 

This is just a guess on my part, but you may feel more vunerable around them.

Try and watch your reactions when you feel vulnerable. Get to know them if you don't already.

 

In any case, regardless of what happens in this experiment, I strongly suggest just getting your house in order. Start taking steps toward physical health (no additive substances), exercise, eat right, sleep regularly. Start forgiving yourself and others. Try to heal. Little by little. Go for stability. Build a healthy self, and later you can work on loosing it.

 

I'm not sure if there is anything like it in Daoism, but I would actually suggest AA or some other offshoot of that organization.

 

I pray that you find peace and wholeness, dude

[chrisjswanson]

Do you find a reason to break it off first?

 

Here is an experiment you could try. Make friends, or at least be friendly with some girls who are more normal in this regard. It would help if they are close to your type physically, that is physically attractive even if you are not attracted to them for this reason. See what happens when you are around them for a while.

 

Usually I do not find a reason to break it off first. In fact, these girls keep breaking my heart. I think they are attracting me cause they sense I want to protect them, and then subconsciously hurting me to get back at their father...

 

As far as finding healthy girls to hang around, Yes! I agree totally, problem is that girls with abuse history aren't always obvious, and every time I meet a girl who seems really healthy I end up finding out it's the same old story.

 

Seems there's some subconscious gravity happening here. Maybe to do with the fact that my mom's father was an alcoholic (don't know if he was abusive...) and she's probably, like Freud says, my first female role model.

 

I'm really starting to see a lot of patterns here, in myself and others. There is a pattern of suffering happening that is being transmitted and perpetuated through families and relationships, sort of like a virus of the social unit as a whole. I intend to behave as an antibody, take that virus out, if it's at all possible and won't hurt anything :-)

 

peace+love

Chris

 

Usually I do not find a reason to break it off first. In fact, these girls keep breaking my heart. I think they are attracting me cause they sense I want to protect them, and then subconsciously hurting me to get back at their father...

 

Or maybe they're sensing that I unconsciously intend to hurt them? (yikes!) and they want to be hurt (again)? Uh oh... Time for vipassana :-|

 

peace+love

Chris

[Starjumper]

Hey Chris, these are my thoughts. Daughters almost always turn out like their mothers, so if you marry one of these women and have a daughter, guess what - it doesn't look good. There seems to be a pattern here, with the mention of your mother and her dad being like that, but I didn't see mention of your own dad. Is he like that?

[Dean]

Be careful,

 

These women you are so compassionate towards often have really serious problems, IMO. I once had a girl friend that had similar problems and let me tell you as loving as she was it was not worth the drama. I'm saying this as I look back now by the way. We constantly had the ups and downs and of course cheating, etc. If your into that kind of thing go for it. I held her dear to my heart and got hurt big time. In my mind I would steer clear.

 

All the Best,

[shontonga]

Hey Chris,

Some Good questions to sit with?

 

Like that ya call girls, girls!

I call girls, girls and boys, boys,

and those who are questioning, whatever they like to be called.

But I tend to get in trouble for calling everyone kid???

The young ones want to be old, the old ones think I'm to young ...

Used to get me in a lot of trouble when I had worked with folks in Senior Housing!

Anyway, It's nice to meet you, I'm Shon, and I tend to go off on tangents!

So Getting back to your questions ...

good stuff to look into, takes courage,

some piss and vinegar, and an open heart and mind.

 

My ways are very simplistic (try) and I am the first to admit

I don't know shit (and need to clean up my language?).

 

Most folks tend to go towards what's familiar.

When people are dealing with other people, it works both ways.

 

Really we're all just creatures of habit.

What's known doesn't scare us as much?

Pretty simple, right? ...in all it's complexity.

 

Folks sit in the same seats whenever possible.

If they had a dog they liked, that was a good dog,

chances are when they get another dog it's the same kind.

They get the same kinds of pizza usually.

If they really like Flourite, they always like flourite(a stone)

and drink the same kind of coffee from the same place every morning.

It's actually kinda fun to watch, makes what they do easy to predict.

 

Sounds like you've got a good mom,

by 25 you know her to be more than human.

(25 is a great time to clean yourself up, life gets better! U want to be present for it!)

Makes sense that you'd pick up on her qualities in others.

Especially if you two were close when you were small.

The people we are around teach us so much about the world.

For better and worse.

 

Like attracts like.

And Opposites Attract!

Both are true. As real as shoelaces!

 

Play with it.

See what opposites you see that you like and what likes you attract?

Both could be deemed good or bad that doesn't matter though

if you just sit back and observe it all!

 

Stay well, Hope the path is gentle on you kid!

 

Shon

 

*and as I said, "I Don't know Shlop."

I'm sure some folks could vouch for that here!

[chrisjswanson]

Hey Chris, these are my thoughts. Daughters almost always turn out like their mothers, so if you marry one of these women and have a daughter, guess what - it doesn't look good. There seems to be a pattern here, with the mention of your mother and her dad being like that, but I didn't see mention of your own dad. Is he like that?

 

Well he married my mom

 

My dad is an intellectual, pretty reserved, keeps his emotions pretty well hidden. I have no reason to think that he is abusive, and know of no abuse history in his family (not sure if that's what you were asking about). He is a very light drinker, doesn't use substances, maybe has a little too much faith in the established system. I gotta get him to put down his cell and hit the donation supported 10 day vipassana retreat :-)

 

Again, I'm happy to answer specific questions and give out personal info about things, as long as I'm not giving out others' personal info that they might not be cool with, but I don't wanna flood your forum with my life so anyone who's interested and has ideas will need to ask me! thanks :-)

 

peace+love

Chris

 

 

 

 

Be careful,

 

These women you are so compassionate towards often have really serious problems, IMO. I once had a girl friend that had similar problems and let me tell you as loving as she was it was not worth the drama. I'm saying this as I look back now by the way. We constantly had the ups and downs and of course cheating, etc. If your into that kind of thing go for it. I held her dear to my heart and got hurt big time. In my mind I would steer clear.

 

All the Best,

 

Sorry to hear about your pains Dean, thank you for sharing with me. I totally know what you're talking about, these girls hurt or worse. Yet for some reason there's a spark of intensity that I haven't found elsewhere. Maybe I love the risk of getting hurt like you said, if that's the kind of thing I'm into.

 

My question is, why would I be into risking hurting myself emotionally. Why would it make me feel more intense (alive?) Something to do with my own father's tendency toward not expressing emotion? All comments welcome.

 

peace+love

Chris

 

Wow you're all zenned out :-) Great post , for some reason it gives me a sense of destiny, that this is all working out according to a bigger picture. I'll most certainly be attentive to the opposites and similarities that I find myself attracted to or pushed away from.

 

Thanks Shon

 

peace+love

Chris

 

Hey Chris,

Some Good questions to sit with?

 

Like that ya call girls, girls!

I call girls, girls and boys, boys,

and those who are questioning, whatever they like to be called.

But I tend to get in trouble for calling everyone kid???

The young ones want to be old, the old ones think I'm to young ...

Used to get me in a lot of trouble when I had worked with folks in Senior Housing!

Anyway, It's nice to meet you, I'm Shon, and I tend to go off on tangents!

So Getting back to your questions ...

good stuff to look into, takes courage,

some piss and vinegar, and an open heart and mind.

 

My ways are very simplistic (try) and I am the first to admit

I don't know shit (and need to clean up my language?).

 

Most folks tend to go towards what's familiar.

When people are dealing with other people, it works both ways.

 

Really we're all just creatures of habit.

What's known doesn't scare us as much?

Pretty simple, right? ...in all it's complexity.

 

Folks sit in the same seats whenever possible.

If they had a dog they liked, that was a good dog,

chances are when they get another dog it's the same kind.

They get the same kinds of pizza usually.

If they really like Flourite, they always like flourite(a stone)

and drink the same kind of coffee from the same place every morning.

It's actually kinda fun to watch, makes what they do easy to predict.

 

Sounds like you've got a good mom,

by 25 you know her to be more than human.

(25 is a great time to clean yourself up, life gets better! U want to be present for it!)

Makes sense that you'd pick up on her qualities in others.

Especially if you two were close when you were small.

The people we are around teach us so much about the world.

For better and worse.

 

Like attracts like.

And Opposites Attract!

Both are true. As real as shoelaces!

 

Play with it.

See what opposites you see that you like and what likes you attract?

Both could be deemed good or bad that doesn't matter though

if you just sit back and observe it all!

 

Stay well, Hope the path is gentle on you kid!

 

Shon

 

*and as I said, "I Don't know Shlop."

I'm sure some folks could vouch for that here!

[Trunk]

I have a few thoughts on this... from an energy exchange perspective and what we're looking for in a mate. Basically, we're looking for someone that we resonate with and can easily exchange male/female energy with. It's easiest to blend like-with-like. Now, you get a deep layer of energy from each of your parents, it's in the deeper channels, deep layer. I'd say an especially strong contribution from your mother: umbilical cord, then breast feeding. It's not only physical vitality that you get from your parents, but also some kind of psychological record along with it, impressions, history.

 

Now, say you see ... well, not "see" so much as energetically "feel" a woman that resonates with the energy that your mum gave you. That's a kind of feminine energy that you sense you can easily receive deeply into your system and (potentially) do some deep alchemy with (cause you already did when you were gestating in your mother's womb). A woman like that "hits your umbilical gong", goooonnnnnngggg, with a deep resonance.

 

 

To work through, past, transcend, resolve, these sorts of issues is real, long term, work. That is, to gradually shift your pattern beyond your vital-inheritance to a substantial degree.

 

Hope this helps. Hope I've been somewhat clear, somewhat cognitively challenged today.

 

Trunk

Edited January 3, 2009 by Trunk

[chrisjswanson]

Hey Trunk

 

Thanks, you gave me another perspective. I do see what you are saying, you explained clearly enough for me.

 

Makes a lot of sense to me too, as a matter of fact I've always kinda thought about it like that, I can feel an energy exchange happen when I'm around girls (to me energy exchange, body language, subconscious communication, etc. are all different manifestations of something similar or same).

 

I have very little idea about how to go about shifting this kind of thing, but I figure you're right, it's not the kind of thing that happens overnight :-)

 

peace+love ALL

Chris

I have a few thoughts on this... from an energy exchange perspective and what we're looking for in a mate. Basically, we're looking for someone that we resonate with and can easily exchange male/female energy with. It's easiest to blend like-with-like. Now, you get a deep layer of energy from each of your parents, it's in the deeper channels, deep layer. I'd say an especially strong contribution from your mother: umbilical cord, then breast feeding. It's not only physical vitality that you get from your parents, but also some kind of psychological record along with it, impressions, history.

 

Now, say you see ... well, not "see" so much as energetically "feel" a woman that resonates with the energy that your mum gave you. That's a kind of feminine energy that you sense you can easily receive deeply into your system and (potentially) do some deep alchemy with (cause you already did when you were gestating in your mother's womb). A woman like that "hits your umbilical gong", goooonnnnnngggg, with a deep resonance.

 

 

To work through, past, transcend, resolve, these sorts of issues is real, long term, work. That is, to gradually shift your pattern beyond your vital-inheritance to a substantial degree.

 

Hope this helps. Hope I've been somewhat clear, somewhat cognitively challenged today.

 

Trunk

[markern]

I can understand your frustration with western psychology, however there has been some developments as of late that might interest you. Mindfulness based cognitive therapy combines mindfulness training and meditation with cognitive therapy and is very effective. It might be something for you to look into.

 

The Daimond aproach of A.H. Almaas has an excellent reputation for combining a very good and genuine mindfull spritual path with the best of western psychology. I have had it strongly reccomended by people I know personaly and trust and also seen it recomended wholeheartedly by teachers such as Ken Wilber and Jack Konrfield. The writings of Almaas also impresses me. So if you want to combine spiritual work with something that is likely to help heal your psychological scars the Diamond aproach is probably excellent. It is very good at bringing forth your most deepseated issues and healing them through a mindfull aproach.

 

http://www.ahalmaas.com/

 

There are certain qigong practices that work more directly with psychological stuff then others. Healing sounds for example work extreemly directly with emotions. The same is true for five animals qigong, five emotions qigong and the inner smile. Chi Nei Tsang and Karzai Nei Tsang massage is superb for cleansing out stuck emotions.

 

I am certain there are fairly good herbs to help balance bipolar disorder and that accupuncture also helps. Cr4eating one sequence for days when you are more manic and days when you are more depressed should be very helpfull in balancing the moodswings. Grounding stuff on manic days and energizing on depressed days etc.

 

Once you are a lot more emotionaly stable doing realy deep body oriented thereapy to release old wounds can be very helpfull but it is so draining and destabilizing to go through that one needs a certain balance to begin with in order to go through it.

[hagar]

It's uncontrovercial to aknowledge that your choice of partner is affected by the parent of the opposite sex.

This is basically just recognizing emotional patterns that you've been affected by and adapting to to get affection, love and be seen your entire life. Basic rule: Parent of opposite sex with baggage = partner with baggage. Parent of same sex with baggage = self esteem issues.

Freudianism is NOT a science, yet it may help figure out some basic patterns relating to emotional adaptation to your environment.

 

On the other hand, a vast majority of partners you meet in any western cultural setting do have some painful issues in their past. And a huge minority of partners do have alcohol abuse in their close family. So you're not that special when dealing with these problems.

 

Also, since you're aknowledging these issues, your painful past and choice of partner is what causes your self-examination and as a consequence your self-growth. Where would you be without these experiences?

 

I think the people reading this and honestly knowing that they come from a background of sound, emotionally healthy, loving and caring parents and grandparents who are not drinking, and are still not divorced: You are one of the blessed few.

 

h

[Taiji Bum]

I think the people reading this and honestly knowing that they come from a background of sound, emotionally healthy, loving and caring parents and grandparents who are not drinking, and are still not divorced: You are one of the blessed few.

 

h

Thats me. No abuse, middle class, no alcoholics, grew up on a tiny farm with horses, all my siblings were pretty nice, my parents showered love and affection on us and if my father hadn't died they'd still be together... it was idylic.

[hagar]

Thats me. No abuse, middle class, no alcoholics, grew up on a tiny farm with horses, all my siblings were pretty nice, my parents showered love and affection on us and if my father hadn't died they'd still be together... it was idylic.

 

Then you're in the 15 % that didn't have a dysfunction in your upbringing. Worth more than gold.

 

h

[Trunk]

Then you're in the 15 % that didn't have a dysfunction in your upbringing. Worth more than gold.

When I was in my 20's I was hanging out with the whole family of one of my friends. They & I were all sitting in the living room and they were relaxed, joking, and laughing for what seemed like several (wonderful) hours and I realized that their family had been doing this all during the years growing up. I was in awe, dumb-struck.

[freeform]

Are you thinking of any of your behaviour as 'wrong', 'inappropriate' or 'bad'?

 

You know that toy that toddlers have? - the one where you have a box or small table with a triangular, a circular and a square hole cut into it - and you also have the same shape blocks - the idea is the kid has to match the shape with the hole and push the shape through.

 

This is how we often relate to problems - we think that if only we fit the right shape into the right hole, then everything will be sorted out.

 

In reality kids throw the blocks around, chew on them, squeeze them, sit on them slobber all over them etc. Kids are not so limited as adults - everything is perfect whether the blocks are matched up and pushed through the holes or are used a fun, colourful chewing gum.

 

In our case the whole idea that there's something to be done, fixed, analysed, completed is a fallacy that we accept readily.

 

So let's chew on your conundrum.

 

Let's pretend there's nothing fundamentally wrong in any aspect of it - not the abuse, not alcoholism and not your attraction to certain girls. In fact lets pretend it's all in a state of utter perfection! (including the doubt that you might have over whether it's indeed perfect or not - that's perfect too).

 

I found a theory that really resonated with me - it's based on the idea that everything is perfect as it is.

 

The story is that we are all eternal spirits who waited in a long long line to get to experience what it's like to be limited, finite and human. Unfortunately by the time we receive a body and are born into the limited world of physicality we completely forget that we are actually infinite spirits looking for an opportunity to grow spiritually by experiencing limitation.

 

So most of us walk around in a state of stupor going round and round the same patterns without learning the lessons hidden in there.

 

Trying to fix our problems is most often counter-productive - usually it's an attempt to get away from the problem rather than find the little gift that is hidden within it. (and I'm not suggesting that you're trying to get away from the 'problem' - in fact it's commendable how ready you are to explore)

 

I'm just suggesting a fundamentally different approach than most western psychological systems.

 

One of the other ways we tend to get ourselves into a muddle is to start analysing the situation with the mind. The mind just doesn't have the bandwidth to see the whole picture.

 

The heart, however, does have the bandwidth - it's like a mid-way point between your unlimited spirit and your hugely limited mind. The heart communicates through feelings, emotions and sensations - not words, ideas and thoughts.

 

Keep your attention with the feelings and sensations - not your thoughts about them.

 

If you open your heart enough, you will feel the inherent perfection in the situation... this has to be felt and experienced rather than thought about.

 

If you get a chance have a look at "Radical Forgiveness" - and give it a chance - the first time I came across it, I dismissed the whole thing immediately after checking out their rather pink, fluffy, new-agey website. A year later I had several coincidences lead me to the work again and again. The whole thing is based on what I explained above.

[Taiji Bum]

Then you're in the 15 % that didn't have a dysfunction in your upbringing. Worth more than gold.

 

h

I just realized that my mom is a narcissistic freakshow and I am her "golden child" and THATS why I think our family was so great. The total love and attention I got from my mom was not there for my siblings. GAWD.....

[Mal]

Guess I'd better step up and claim for the 15%

Parents still together, no drinking, fighting or abuse.

And no siblings to share the love with

[rookie]

Is there such a thing as taoist psychology?

I read in Ken Choen's book that the Chineese do not really recognize psychological problems. A mental health issue would be looked on as having a problem with one of the organs, for example, not the thinking, beliefs from conditioning, trauma, etc.

 

So maybe your "Taoist psychology" answer would be take this herb, do this exercise, or maybe send me $70 for a FU

 

[hagar]

Guess I'd better step up and claim for the 15%

Parents still together, no drinking, fighting or abuse.

And no siblings to share the love with

 

As said; consider yourself blessed.

 

Then again, selective ignorance is ok too.

 

h

[chrisjswanson]

Thanks so much , everyone , you people are like a family to me. (A non dysfunctional one!? :-) Not sure if that exist

But I love you all.

 

The Daimond aproach of A.H. Almaas has an excellent reputation for combining a very good and genuine mindfull spritual path with the best of western psychology. I have had it strongly reccomended by people I know personaly and trust and also seen it recomended wholeheartedly by teachers such as Ken Wilber and Jack Konrfield. The writings of Almaas also impresses me. So if you want to combine spiritual work with something that is likely to help heal your psychological scars the Diamond aproach is probably excellent. It is very good at bringing forth your most deepseated issues and healing them through a mindfull aproach.

 

http://www.ahalmaas.com/

 

There are certain qigong practices that work more directly with psychological stuff then others. Healing sounds for example work extreemly directly with emotions. The same is true for five animals qigong, five emotions qigong and the inner smile. Chi Nei Tsang and Karzai Nei Tsang massage is superb for cleansing out stuck emotions.

 

I am certain there are fairly good herbs to help balance bipolar disorder and that accupuncture also helps. Cr4eating one sequence for days when you are more manic and days when you are more depressed should be very helpfull in balancing the moodswings. Grounding stuff on manic days and energizing on depressed days etc.

 

Once you are a lot more emotionaly stable doing realy deep body oriented thereapy to release old wounds can be very helpfull but it is so draining and destabilizing to go through that one needs a certain balance to begin with in order to go through it.

Really really interesting and good advice, thanks so much. I will certainly look into that Diamond thing, I always thought Ken Wilber was awesome, especially after watching him stop his brainwaves on youtube :-) I've already found that chanting can help me, I'm experimenting with sounds, and have found my playing of my guitar to be a strange and powerful self healing tool. So you called that one, sound heals feelings.

 

I'll have to look into the qi gong thing to develop a proper routine, I'm kind going on intuition right now but I'm sure a teacher would help. Thanks for the suggestion though, I agree with that as well. I'm gonna look up 5 animals, 5 emotions, Chi Nei Tsang, Karzai Nei Tsang, and see what they're all about. Any links, anyone?

 

It's uncontrovercial to aknowledge that your choice of partner is affected by the parent of the opposite sex.

This is basically just recognizing emotional patterns that you've been affected by and adapting to to get affection, love and be seen your entire life. Basic rule: Parent of opposite sex with baggage = partner with baggage. Parent of same sex with baggage = self esteem issues.

Freudianism is NOT a science, yet it may help figure out some basic patterns relating to emotional adaptation to your environment.

 

On the other hand, a vast majority of partners you meet in any western cultural setting do have some painful issues in their past. And a huge minority of partners do have alcohol abuse in their close family. So you're not that special when dealing with these problems.

 

Also, since you're aknowledging these issues, your painful past and choice of partner is what causes your self-examination and as a consequence your self-growth. Where would you be without these experiences?

 

Totally feel you on that , and you are so wise to point out that I wouldn't be here if it weren't for the pain. I guess this harsh world provides the sand to make us pearls...

 

 

Are you thinking of any of your behaviour as 'wrong', 'inappropriate' or 'bad'?

 

You know that toy that toddlers have? - the one where you have a box or small table with a triangular, a circular and a square hole cut into it - and you also have the same shape blocks - the idea is the kid has to match the shape with the hole and push the shape through.

 

This is how we often relate to problems - we think that if only we fit the right shape into the right hole, then everything will be sorted out.

 

In reality kids throw the blocks around, chew on them, squeeze them, sit on them slobber all over them etc. Kids are not so limited as adults - everything is perfect whether the blocks are matched up and pushed through the holes or are used a fun, colourful chewing gum.

 

In our case the whole idea that there's something to be done, fixed, analysed, completed is a fallacy that we accept readily.

 

So let's chew on your conundrum.

 

Let's pretend there's nothing fundamentally wrong in any aspect of it - not the abuse, not alcoholism and not your attraction to certain girls. In fact lets pretend it's all in a state of utter perfection! (including the doubt that you might have over whether it's indeed perfect or not - that's perfect too).

 

I found a theory that really resonated with me - it's based on the idea that everything is perfect as it is.

 

The story is that we are all eternal spirits who waited in a long long line to get to experience what it's like to be limited, finite and human. Unfortunately by the time we receive a body and are born into the limited world of physicality we completely forget that we are actually infinite spirits looking for an opportunity to grow spiritually by experiencing limitation.

 

So most of us walk around in a state of stupor going round and round the same patterns without learning the lessons hidden in there.

 

Trying to fix our problems is most often counter-productive - usually it's an attempt to get away from the problem rather than find the little gift that is hidden within it. (and I'm not suggesting that you're trying to get away from the 'problem' - in fact it's commendable how ready you are to explore)

 

I'm just suggesting a fundamentally different approach than most western psychological systems.

 

One of the other ways we tend to get ourselves into a muddle is to start analysing the situation with the mind. The mind just doesn't have the bandwidth to see the whole picture.

 

The heart, however, does have the bandwidth - it's like a mid-way point between your unlimited spirit and your hugely limited mind. The heart communicates through feelings, emotions and sensations - not words, ideas and thoughts.

 

Keep your attention with the feelings and sensations - not your thoughts about them.

 

If you open your heart enough, you will feel the inherent perfection in the situation... this has to be felt and experienced rather than thought about.

 

If you get a chance have a look at "Radical Forgiveness" - and give it a chance - the first time I came across it, I dismissed the whole thing immediately after checking out their rather pink, fluffy, new-agey website. A year later I had several coincidences lead me to the work again and again. The whole thing is based on what I explained above.

Totally awesome, and very in line with what my intuition tells me anyways. Its like the Hindu thing, "all paths lead to me" I think Krishna said to Arjuna, and it's true, we really can't go wrong, even thinking that things are going wrong is part of the right. So thanks eternal spirit friend for reminding me to learn what I'm here to learn! I'll check out radical forgiveness too, I suspect I already have an idea of what I'll find based on your post :-)

 

I hope everyone who has these pains to deal with can know that suffering is the fire under our butt as we climb the ladder to heaven, and maybe that knowledge will take away a little pain, without taking away the motivation to keep climbing!

 

peace+love

Chris