constantly sexually rev'd

[Yoda]

Trunk,

 

The problem that plagues chikung is that it is so powerful... It's scary to think that one's darling practice could be undermining one's general well being. Sean's right--I've followed several other well-mannered forums--us taoists are total wack jobs. And to think that we do it methodically to ourselves day in day out. Add that to all the brilliant yet insane masters on the market, and grandma's simple living takes on a certain appeal.

 

I think your well-phrased critique of retention applies to other high power drills like standing, iron shirt stuff, sungazing, microcosmic orbit, kundalini drills, 5 yogas, etc.

 

Winn brings up examples of dopey zennists and Bodri brings up examples of fried taoboys and I think there's a valid perspective to both sides of the debate.

 

Sungazing guru Hira R. Manek says that retention is very beneficial but that it will naturally arise as a practice and that one shouldn't force retention as a discipline.

 

I'm not sure if my growing interest in retention is "natural" or if I'm simply more capable of making it happen at this point so that makes me excited about it. I certainly have some bugs to work out with the practice. Concurrent with one of your suggestions, I've been going through a celibate phase for the last couple of weeks and sleeping by myself just to smooth out the ride.

 

I do think that it's good that internet users have access to these warnings that readers of Chia's Sex book don't have. But then again, if they get serious about it, it's quite likely that they'll get more info online.

 

Just having that awareness is huge.

 

Also, spending time with soothing practices like exercise, Warrior Wellness, healing sounds, quiet sitting, stargazing, being under a tree, etc are a good idea for anyone active with the more firey stuff.

 

Another great thread fellow taobums--damn we smart!! Some scat porn and we'd have the whole picture.

 

Great Post by Plato on HT btw, he just got electrocuted by robertpeng.com. Sounds fun. Spyrelx, you should check him out. He's a lesser Kan and Li master, apparently.

 

-Yoda

[farooq]

So how to cut through the false-grasping at false-selves without the convenience of physical renunciation? I'm really asking.

 

6991[/snapback]

 

 

There is a great zen line that goes something like this:

 

'before enlightenment - chop wood carry water

 

after enlightenment - chop wood carry water'

 

 

Who ever came up with that phrase was truly divinely inspired. i just love it

 

one way of looking at the above is to realize that you dont have to become a hermit in order to get 'it'

 

 

what has been working for me is meditation and just letting go.

 

if you truly let go - all falseness naturally disipates, and what ever is a real value will come back to you. some times it comes back even better than when you let it go.

 

btw Sean, thanks for all the work you have done on establishing this forum.

it is of great value.

[Cameron]

Awesome thread..one of the best ever..good job tackling big issues guys. The way I currently see it(may be completely wrong so discard view at your liesure )

 

I was having a discussion with a cowoker today about diet and excercises role in getting in shape. I went over all the different theories for myself. How the raw foodists say you need to fast and cut out all junk food and purify the body and go through all this shit, the high protien people say basically the same thing but with a completely opposite diet. You have all kinds of diets..which in this case I would like to make the far reaching comparison to sexual energy techniques, to basically accomplish the goal of losing weight.

 

So I was going over this and came to the theory that for me this is a useless approach. For me it is really about being active and developing the overall lifestyle of being active(more excercise, being outdoors more, martial arts) that sets the tone for my life and gives my body the necissary training. After that, and I will make the far reaching comparision of excercise to qigong and meditation, the diet thing would fall into place naturally. It would not be something I would need to force but would be the natural progression from all my physical activeness and training.

 

So, going along these lines, I would say that for me, retention is definetly not the goal but rather the natural progression of my qigong lifestlye. Once the energy gets really refined(and I would not say I am at the point yet) and so much bliss and qi is flowing, you would probably do retention(or maybe not like some others say) naturally. Just like after a couple hard hours of Jiu Jitsu or some combat conditioning I am not thinking to gorge myself on donuts but to have some healthy food.

 

Anyway, this is my current take, focus on training and creating the overall lifestlye and the other stuff will fall into place . If it hasn't fallen into place it's not so much the failing of the sexual energy technique but the overall meditation or qigong practice.

[Trunk]

I've been paying close attention to my LTT area lately. .. opening up my LTT in new ways. .. putting it into consistent practice ..

Definately crucial.

The Sun Do approach keeps coming to mind. Their whole thing is LTT breathing, in different positions through a routine, every day. A quality that they work toward is "silk breathing" - that is, the breathing, tissues, fluids, (& blockages cleared) so that the lower tan tien breathing is as smooth as silk, steadily inhale~exhale, every part of it.

 

Also related to the other topic you mentioned, I think.

It's kind of a loony farm.

 

And to snip Cam's post in here -

focus on training and creating the overall lifestlye and the other stuff will fall into place

Really really good one.

[Yoda]

Just like after a couple hard hours of Jiu Jitsu or some combat conditioning I am not thinking to gorge myself on donuts but to have some healthy food.

 

 

Great point and great analogy.

 

I think there are a number of energy masters from the worlds of business, sports, music, and misc life that have never heard of sexual conservation of energy but very naturally apply those principles to their passion.

 

A rock star who follows his passion which draws him away from society and sexuality so he can pour it all into writing his music. And then when he's done with that and he's on tour he f*cks his brains out to try to dissipate the chi overload he gets from 70,000 screaming teenagers.

 

So he is applying natural principles to his advantage without ever reading the Tao te Ching.

 

Living a happy life, smiling and laughing is the sign of free energy flow.

 

Also, I think that warning signs of getting overloaded by a powerful practice show up in grumpiness and discomfort long before physical symptoms and external manifestations rear their head.

 

I try to honor my feelings first, but if I bump into a more material manifestation I always look back and see that I have ignored my feelings.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

Speaking of negativity, I'm in the middle of some grumpiness with my retention practice right now. And I need to find a solution before the manfestations take shape.

 

I'm presently blaming Mrs. Yoda (keeping it inside) for not being my sex slave, as she couldn't sustain the level of activity that I was pushing for she was getting sleep deprived. Meanwhile, I'm trying to groove on the joys of celibacy--lots of stargazing, music, powow blend, healing sounds, keysound at night, etc. I'm enjoying myself, but this blame keeps flaring up.

 

Potential solutions:

 

call off the dogs and take a break from the practice. It'll work, but I'm not ready to surender quite yet.

 

My replacement, hopefully non-hemorrhoidal, aneros is probably about a week and a half away. Maybe that thingy can give me a few super Os and I'll be at peace again.

 

An idea I got from Mbanu's post goes something like this: I'm doing all the physical stuff I can think of and that I'm comfortable doing which circulates jing and also burns some of it off. How about jing burners like caffeine? I've really gone to town on the stuff in the past, I've got the jing to burn, and its starting to breech my inner levees... why waste my hard earned life force on a piece of kleenex when I can burn it into extra energy in daily life? Thoughts?

 

Mrs. Yoda's complaint was that I wasn't letting her sleep enough. So I ordered her a bunch of "how to sleep" books--maybe I can make the sleep I she does get to be more powerful, so she'll have more time for me.

 

Regardless of her, I've gone from sleeping 8+ hours a night to 6- hours a night since I've started retention. Max keeps saying that the less sleep you need, the better. Mbanu and others say that getting sleep is key and a good thing. Intellectually, I really am okay with celibacy, so maybe it's the fact that I'm not sleeping as much that's making me grumpy and the retention is only indirectly responsible.

 

Maybe I should force myself to sleep more? I'll read those sleep books that are in the mail to see if I glean anything from them.

 

It's crossed my mind to slip some benadryl into the kids in the evenings so they konk out giving us more time together, but Mrs Yoda would catch me. She'll only allow me to use this trick on long car trips.

 

Should I download scat porn to cool my jets?

 

I'm open minded here, so all thoughts welcome.

 

-Yoda

[Cameron]

Ok I feel I should also mention something Eric Yudelove told me years ago. For better or for worse, Yudelove is a guy who has been doing these practices his whole life and I think knew a thing or two before he dropped off the face of the Earth. When we used to communicate back in the day I was a stupid, immature 23 year old kid and he was going through alot of personal stuff. It would be interesting if Eric dropped back in one of these days(maybe Sean could invite him?).

 

In any case, he told me that it is crucial in the sexual energy practices to connect the sexual energy with smiling energy. Whenever you work with sexual energy always add the inner smile to it and these two techniques should go hand in hand.

 

So the way it would go the sexual energy comes up and you add the smile to it and smile golden sun energy into the testicles, smile, and circulate the smiling sexual energy through the orbit. I can't say I have gotten there yet but then all the HT beginning practices would merge into on practice. Obviously healing sounds could be done afterwards or even during solo/dual sex.

 

I am thinking of doing Eric's Taoist Yoga and Sexual Energy program again. I never finished it just practiced some of turning the yin yang water wheels and bone marrow breathing that were very nice.

[Trunk]

he told me that it is crucial in the sexual energy practices to connect the sexual energy with smiling energy.

All this time I never liked the inner smile, but it now strikes me that its a form of kan & li. Suddenly I accept it and like it. Some people are so stubborn!

 

It would be interesting if Eric dropped back in one of these days

Definately.

[Yoda]

I can attest that retention plus inner frown isn't a good match. -Yoda

[MatthewQi]

Wow that is funny... I have just started doing the inner smile and connecting with cosmic golden energy again lately myself. Definitely good stuff. It is funny what pops back up in practice and even more amazing what comes to a number of people around the same time! I was browsing awaken Healing Light a couple weeks ago and realized that I was totally ignoring cosmic energy and the inner smile

 

Yodster, just a couple of thoughts that came to me, take it for whatever...

you might consider doing some primordial qigong, fusion or inner alchemy (not sure if you are doing any HT stuff anymore). Stuff to help transform that jing! The Central Channel Meditation I posted up would be a nice experience and beneficial I think for you.

 

Matt

[Yoda]

Matt,

 

Good suggestions. I think primordial chikung would hit the spot. I've been doing 2+ hour sessions at night as I don't want to fall asleep with a loaded gun under my pillow, but the sleep deprivation was doing me in. PCK is a quick prebed practice that won't keep me up. I just did a PCK and got 10 hours of catch up snooze and I feel much better.

 

Thanks!

Yoda

[Yoda]

for the record, I deliberately decided to blow my load.

 

I know you all wanted to be kept up to date on this important matter...

 

It was 120 days of retentions, about 5 gallons worth I'd reckon.

 

I had started to get out of step with Mrs. Yoda around day 90 but it was only recently that I could admit that I was starting to have psychological issues with the practice--the inner scowl plus extra jing isn't a good combo and no aneros in sight, so I decided to halt the experiment.

 

From past experience I know that it takes my system 2-3 days after unloading for my system to reset itself at a lower energy level and I look forward to it.

 

Maybe I'll look at this like Pavel's periodization approach where you have to push yourself and then really back off before starting another cycle.

 

I was very retention proud for awhile, though. I felt like a little Master Ron minus all the nasties, but the undertow was there. Didn't he say that 100-120 days there's a wall? Maybe that's what I ran into.

 

We'll see how it goes, but like any periodizing schedule if the ramp up is 120 days, then the cycle off has to be 30-40 days per Consistent Winning, cult book of periodization on DD.

 

I'll also use PCK in the future--that is an excellent suggestion.

 

Fortunately, I don't believe that I have to hold my sperm to be immortal! Talk about performance pressure!!

 

-Yoda

[spyrelx]

Just got back to the board after an absence of a week or so. As others have said, this is a great post. I think EVERYONE made at least one pretty interesting contribution (and how often does that happen). So I don't have much to say (and how often does THAT happen).

 

Except to Yoda,

 

First, congratulations on shooting your wad. Personally, I've been a little worried about you. And I think you chose the smartest move. Indeed, you might want to do it again, just to thoroughly clean out the pipes and start fresh. (I suggest doing it with Mrs Yoda, slow and mellow this time).

 

And now for one more thing.

 

Remember this: due to a combination of retention and living in the western world you've already turned yourself into a horndog. And that doesn't change by an ejaculation.

 

Coming will lower your energy and perhaps even your physical/sexual ability for a time, but it might not have that much of an effect on DESIRE. Your glands might have cooled down but the stuff you've done to your psyche is more ingrained.

 

So, if you've gotten into a weird place sexually or emotionally or psychologically, those patterns may well still be there and indeed may well assert themselves even stronger after a loss of energy (I remember ejaculating to porn after a long stretch of retention and then surfing the internet for more porn within the hour).

 

Try to be aware of obsessiveness in anything -- wether actions, feelings or relationships -- and guard against it. I think you have a great resource in Mrs. Yoda and the kids. My suggestion for the next few weeks is to connect with them with as much wholesome love and openess as you can muster (but again, without being obsessive).

 

OK, that's it. Frankly, I just read this over and hope it doesn't come across as too arrogant. I mean, I don't know if this advice is even relevant to your situation. It's just that some of the things you've written have reminded me of places I've been and, as as I say, you've been on my mind a bit lately.

 

spyrelx

[Yoda]

Extreme jing tends to jump ships a bit. Just psychic-ly, of course. Maybe it was good for everyone on the board that I shot my wad. And you're right, that doesn't undo the fundamental fact that us taoists are a bit high strung. I really want to master the high jing horn dogger lifestyle but it's back to sungazing in the meantime.

[voice]

I wonder about all of this wanting - wanting for sex, yangness, hard-abs etc. Are we so smart that we know what should be?

 

My practice is to not control my desires, my fears, my wants...but to smile to them and learn from them.

 

In most situations through the day, I can find a moment to feel inside, send a smile to the predominant emotion in me and find a name that fits the energy.

 

When I find the right name, there is a release, a spontaneous sigh, and an expansion of being into self.

 

I do nothing.

 

-voice

[Yoda]

I like your smiling practice!! Nicely put. I hadn't considered that articulation before. I'll kick it around. I've heard from Buddhist and Hindu sources that if you really allow yourself to feel desires 100% that they actually burn themselves out on their own accord fully uncovering the underlying passion, love, and enthusiasm. Your approach seems like a more easily accessible way to accomplish the same alchemy. I want it!

 

-Yoda

[Yoda]

Good suggestion. Next time, I'll try to maintain a bit more calmness from the start. Things like your above suggestion, stillness practice, healing sounds, primordial, keysound/new-and-improved aneros. I'll try to key it down and be more romantic instead of infinitely insatiatiable with Mrs Yoda and see if I can cook up a better long term approach.

 

-Yoda

[rex]

Came across these references to Buddhist practice that have a bearing on healing love/jing gong that's worth picking through to see similarities and differences. Clearly dual cultivation within the context of Buddhist tantric practice is a serious business.

 

When serving a karmamudra, the pure awareness

of bliss and emptiness will arise:

Composed in a blessed union of insight and means,

Slowly send down, retain and draw back up the bodhichitta,

And conducting it to the source, saturate the entire body.

But only if lust and attachment are absent will that awareness arise.

 

(from: Tilopa's Mahamudra Instruction to Naropa)

 

Also this from Yeshe Tsogyel's karamudra instructions:

 

This community and future travellers on the zap-lam

path,

Must first find a teacher especially qualified,

And from that teacher possessing every spiritual sign,

You must request initiation and pledge fulfilment of

your vows.

Then train your energy flows until you gain self-control,

And after receiving the three superior initiations,

cultivate ensuing desire,

To perfect the nature of the four levels of joy,

For six months or until signs of achievement appear

in the body.

Unite male (solar) and female (lunar) energies,

Developing the method of mixing higher and lower

energies,

Female assisting male and male assisting female,

The principles of each being separately practised.

Intensify and elevate your practice, broadening the

horizons of your pleasure;

But if pleasure and Emptiness are not identified,

Profitlessly you stray from the path of Tantra:

Apprehend the intrinsic unity of pleasure and Emptiness.

Guard the samaya of Guru and Dakini like your eyes;

In various skilful ways enjoy the five sacred substances;

Practise to perfection the skill of retaining your

seed-essence;

Be attentive to obstacles and hostile powers;

If the samaya is impaired strive to restore it.

About the body: do not let it slip into old habits

Or you will become like ordinary men and women;

With the confidence of the deity, meditate charged

with power

And inform your focal points of energy as a principal and his circle of deities.

About speech: concentrate upon mantra and

energy flows -

Without energy control your sexual activity is

fornication;

Properly execute the exercises of 'drawing up'

and 'saturating'

And with the nails of your imagination apply

an hermetic seal.

About mind: identify the conditioned mind with

seed-essence itself;

If seed-essence is lost in actuality

The karma of slaying a Buddha is incurred;

At all costs gain self-control.

Absorb yourself intently in the experience of desire,

For without it the mysteries have no meaning;

Desire as pure pleasure is the goal fulfilled.

Preserve constant cognition of the primal purity of

experience;

Protect the samaya like your body and life,

For if it is broken there is no authority to restore it.

The foregoing is advice upon meditation practice.

[Pero]

What does "sexually rev'd" mean?

[Trunk]

What does "sexually rev'd" mean?

Like "rev'd up", like when you are in idle and pressing the gas pedal on a car. Constantly excited, turned on.

[Pero]

Like "rev'd up", like when you are in idle and pressing the gas pedal on a car. Constantly excited, turned on.

Thanks, I though it`s something like that, but wasn`t sure, never heard it before.

Well, this certainly is an interesting topic and quite informative. I thnk I might have some questions (not just on topic though) but I have to read it again first.