宁 Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) It is not actually 'the lineage' that creates reality: our reality is only a projection of our minds. Let me make an example. In daoism there is a lot of work done with the hands and their connection to the microcosm and the macrocosm. I have been involved with various sects and have learned different systems of, for instance, the correspondance of Stars and/or internal organs to different part of the hands. Those are utilized during practice and produce *real* (visible) results ... so one would tend to think that there is a (one) specific CORRECT system. Well, I have learned OPPOSITE systems and practiced (separately) only to find that they BOTH work. Whic is not to say 'everything is the same' or 'everything works' of course, but - when properly taught by somebody who has the right experience - everything works in its specific complete system. So for a Daoist who has learned the proper 'mijue' (oral transmission) he will know that all the 'spirits' he works with are only a projection of his own mind and thus said - for an external viewer - it is hard to believe so and see the depth of respect it is given to ritual. YM There are a couple of issues that attracted my attention in your post... I hate to see Yoda's thread die so soon, and I started another one, in respect to the thoughts you wrote above. I had a list of questions that i've put together at my workplace, in my spare time, but i can't find it now. Anyway, the questions are still fresh inside my mind, so i'll give it a try anyhow... 1 - Various systems, with sometimes OPPOSITE concepts, they all work out well and give tangible results of their acheivements 2 - Thru the Chinese tradition, whether we talk daoist practice or something else, it's very likely that the ideas and the concepts, and the practices were sometimes borrowed from one Pai to another, and if this indeed the case, my question would be: if a lineage cannot be entirely original and authentical, due to human interaction, what does it make a lineage be a lineage... what is the special ingredient that makes it work that way? 3 - You mentioned "MiJue", can you tell us more about it? There was another concept i've heard somewhere else, called "KouJue"... I've been thinking a long time about these two, and their role in the daoist tradition. There is said to be different levels to them, unlocking specific understanding on the practices, and therefore allowing the disciple to leap from one level to another... 4 - What can we understand from your experience with opposite systems giving simmilar results, in regard of the daoist view of the Void.. I'm appologise for not being exactly clear with my questions, as English is not my mother tongue. A teacher told me that language is an interesting subject to study, they are not different by what they can articulate, but by what they make mandatory for you to say... Thank you L1 PS: Anyone is welcomed to express some oppinion on it... Please do! Edited January 6, 2009 by Little1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YMWong Posted January 6, 2009 1 - Various systems, with sometimes OPPOSITE concepts, they all work out well and give tangible results of their acheivements Sure, as this is true comparing all traditions worldwide why shouldn't it be also true comparing different lines inside Daoism ? This is one of the reasons the main Daoist line now available in China, and one of the most prominent from the Song dynasty onward, is called "quanzhen" which simply means "all-is-true". 2 - Thru the Chinese tradition, whether we talk daoist practice or something else, it's very likely that the ideas and the concepts, and the practices were sometimes borrowed from one Pai to another, and if this indeed the case, my question would be: if a lineage cannot be entirely original and authentical, due to human interaction, what does it make a lineage be a lineage... what is the special ingredient that makes it work that way? A Daoist line is created by an individual in history who has studied in one or more Daoist lines, has achieved a mastery in his field who is recognized by his peers and has founded his own curriculum based on his studies and experience. As long as a school matches this description it can be considered an authentical lineage. 3 - You mentioned "MiJue", can you tell us more about it? There was another concept i've heard somewhere else, called "KouJue"... I've been thinking a long time about these two, and their role in the daoist tradition. There is said to be different levels to them, unlocking specific understanding on the practices, and therefore allowing the disciple to leap from one level to another... Koujue and Mijue are fundamental in the trasmission of Daoism. Koujue is an oral (only) instruction which is transmitted hands-on from a master to a disciple. Mijue is basically its written correspective, which is handwritten and/or copied and - just like the koujue - cannot be openly published and must remain inside the 'door'. All Daoist texts - for instance all those in the Daoist canon - and the daoist transmission in general can only be understood by those individuals who have received koujue and mijue, who are the keys to open the door. 4 - What can we understand from your experience with opposite systems giving simmilar results, in regard of the daoist view of the Void.. Results are not necessarily "the same". But they are the results the Founders of that specific line have defined as necessary for progressing in the main path of Daoism and to get closer to the final goal which is - and that is true for ALL daoist schools - becoming "one-with-Dao" (yu dao he zhen). YM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
