Keeping the magic in your 'wand'

[rodgerj]

Edited March 22, 2010 by rodgerj

[h.uriahr]

I just read a bit from Vajrasattva's recent post of how one can absorb the Jing Chi back into the hair follicles of their bag (or something to that effect). I have always wondered if guys that have had 'The snip' actually retain Jing Chi automatically? Of course they still loose their seminal plasma but not the spermatozoa. That reminds me of something a Chi Kung Master told me a long time ago now about separating two different essences from his jam. It was a method not easy to achieve but I forget the details to be honest. Not something I contemplate while eating my toast in the morning.

 

But seriously, any thoughts or opinions on this?

It sounds perfectly reasonable that your "minions" would just stay back in the "fort". I'm not sure there would be much of an effect other than your load never being blown AHAHAHAHA. Oh my God...You'd become the perfect CHI MACHINE!!!! Holy cow batman!

[Taiji Bum]

your "minions" would just stay back in the "fort".

[dwai]

I just read a bit from Vajrasattva's recent post of how one can absorb the Jing Chi back into the hair follicles of their bag (or something to that effect). I have always wondered if guys that have had 'The snip' actually retain Jing Chi automatically? Of course they still loose their seminal plasma but not the spermatozoa. That reminds me of something a Chi Kung Master told me a long time ago now about separating two different essences from his jam. It was a method not easy to achieve but I forget the details to be honest. Not something I contemplate while eating my toast in the morning.

 

But seriously, any thoughts or opinions on this?

 

Dear Rodger, why the choice of the word Lingam. Are you fallaciously under the misconception that Lingam means Phallus?

 

Lingam means symbol or sign and nothing more than that. I draw your attention to this Wikipedia article that very nicely defines this term --

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingam

 

But seriously, about the topic -- do you really think there is a biological basis to this practice?

I think not. It is an energetic and psychological one.

 

Best,

 

Dwai

Edited January 7, 2009 by dwai

[Taiji Bum]

The heck with Lingam what does "fallaciously" mean?

[rodgerj]

Edited March 22, 2010 by rodgerj

[Starjumper]

do you really think there is a biological basis to this practice?

 

Obviously!

[dwai]

Do you really think that answer helps anyone? If you want to contribute and actually give a detailed answer/explanation then by all means do...... please back your answer with something other then pride. I may jest, but I am honesty asking the question.

 

Dear Rodger,

 

it wasn't my intention to show you off and display pride or arrogance. It is bewildering just how much of misinformation and fallacious (Darin, it means false) information about things Indic is out there, being exacerbated by ignorance.

 

My answer was in part to show you the fallacy of your statement of using Lingam for phallus, with a jestful play on the word phallus and fallacious...I assume it did not work.

 

My second answer was based on my (limited) understanding on this matter -- jing is the external manifestation of Chi and doesn't directly have any biological relationship with sperm. It is connected however psychologically, with the process of exciting the mind and eventually ejaculation and energetically (starting with the mind aspect and chi burnt in the thinking/imagination process and culminating in ejaculation).

 

Since I started with chiding you about using a dharma term loosely, in Yogic perspective, ejaculation releases Ojas (a specific form of Prana). It has the same interpretation (imho).

[Yoda]

Rodgerj,

 

I've heard it said that it is the energy component which is the vital part. A man can either withhold all components in the first place, reabsorb the energy component, separate & retain the energy component in the first plac, or have the energy given/circulate back to you by a capable partner (like in Witch's heartgasm posts) or just regenerated through future practice. (I'd like to think that energy given to a partner in a loving relationship even if she isn't a yogic cultivator, still gets circulated and shared nicely in the relationship and in the world)

 

I hope your toast didn't go cold!

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Taoist81]

Dear Rodger, why the choice of the word Lingam. Are you fallaciously under the misconception that Lingam means Phallus?

 

Lingam means symbol or sign and nothing more than that. I draw your attention to this Wikipedia article that very nicely defines this term --

 

Maybe someone should have told the author of the Kama Sutra that Lingam and Yoni have no anatomical meanings.

 

Really, as is usually the case, both sides of this debate are guilty of ignoring the other sides evidence. Lingam has in the past been used both ways, and in modern jargon has the meaning used here as common.

[dwai]

Maybe someone should have told the author of the Kama Sutra that Lingam and Yoni have no anatomical meanings.

 

Really, as is usually the case, both sides of this debate are guilty of ignoring the other sides evidence. Lingam has in the past been used both ways, and in modern jargon has the meaning used here as common.

 

Dear Taoist81,

 

Have you read the original Kama Sutra (as in Vatsyayana's original Sanskrit text)? Or did you read Ms Wendy Doniger's version of it?

 

The whole field of indology is replete with interesting intellectual "stalwarts" who repeat each other ad nauseum, ad infinitum, thus rendering a falsity a forced truth.

 

If a significantly large number of people call the world flat, it is considered the truth right (unless someone goes and checks for himself/herself)?

[Stigweard]

Dear Rodger,

 

it wasn't my intention to show you off and display pride or arrogance. It is bewildering just how much of misinformation and fallacious (Darin, it means false) information about things Indic is out there, being exacerbated by ignorance.

 

My answer was in part to show you the fallacy of your statement of using Lingam for phallus, with a jestful play on the word phallus and fallacious...I assume it did not work.

 

My second answer was based on my (limited) understanding on this matter -- jing is the external manifestation of Chi and doesn't directly have any biological relationship with sperm. It is connected however psychologically, with the process of exciting the mind and eventually ejaculation and energetically (starting with the mind aspect and chi burnt in the thinking/imagination process and culminating in ejaculation).

 

Since I started with chiding you about using a dharma term loosely, in Yogic perspective, ejaculation releases Ojas (a specific form of Prana). It has the same interpretation (imho).

 

With respect Dwai, I have learned that Jing does indeed have a biological relationship with sperm.

 

Jing manifests as the "vital fluids of the human organism" (from Chang Ching-yueh, The Book of Classifications, c. 200 BC) and "manifests its primordial prenatal aspect in the sperm and ovum" (Gaurding the Three Treasures, Daniel Reid).

 

"After birth, prenatal essence is stored in the 'kidney-organ system', which in Chinese medical terminology refers to the adrenal glands ('internal kidneys') and the testes or ovaries ('external kidneys')."

[rsalazar]

Hi Rodger,

 

That's an interesting question, I've wondered about this - If I recall my histology correctly, the seminiferous tubules have some absorptive ability - I've never seen any studies on the recycling (which should go on) during extended periods with no activity - I wonder how many energetic components there are - as far as the biological raw materials are concerned, I know seminal retention has been discussed into the ground, but I thought I'd mention (mind you it was only one study, no follow-up that I know of) there was a study on earthworms done in a high profile journal (for what it's worth, either Nature or Science) where they did find a correlation between frequency of mating and longevity, I'll have to dig it up some time.

Cheers,

Rene'

 

 

I just read a bit from Vajrasattva's recent post of how one can absorb the Jing Chi back into the hair follicles of their bag (or something to that effect). I have always wondered if guys that have had 'The snip' actually retain Jing Chi automatically? Of course they still loose their seminal plasma but not the spermatozoa. That reminds me of something a Chi Kung Master told me a long time ago now about separating two different essences from his jam. It was a method not easy to achieve but I forget the details to be honest. Not something I contemplate while eating my toast in the morning.

 

But seriously, any thoughts or opinions on this?

[Taoist81]

Dear Taoist81,

 

Have you read the original Kama Sutra (as in Vatsyayana's original Sanskrit text)? Or did you read Ms Wendy Doniger's version of it?

 

The whole field of indology is replete with interesting intellectual "stalwarts" who repeat each other ad nauseum, ad infinitum, thus rendering a falsity a forced truth.

 

If a significantly large number of people call the world flat, it is considered the truth right (unless someone goes and checks for himself/herself)?

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=wAAiY4J5-...6&ct=result

[dwai]

http://books.google.com/books?id=wAAiY4J5-...6&ct=result

 

Of course...Wendy Doniger!!

She is infamous for sexualizing the most benign of things. I don't consider anything she writes worthy of a second look.

 

Besides, The Kama Sutra is a third-rung insignificant book in the Indian scriptural pantheon. If I were you, I'd revisit my source of knowledge and start with a reading of the Vedas, then the Upanishads.

[Taoist81]

Of course...Wendy Doniger!!

She is infamous for sexualizing the most benign of things. I don't consider anything she writes worthy of a second look.

 

Besides, The Kama Sutra is a third-rung insignificant book in the Indian scriptural pantheon. If I were you, I'd revisit my source of knowledge and start with a reading of the Vedas, then the Upanishads.

 

No disagreement on the "runging" of the Kama Sutra, it is certainly no where near the Vedas. The only point was whether or not "lingam" had in fact been used in antiquity as a word for the male organ, albeit infrequently. The link was not chosen for its translation, but for its discussion of which Sanskrit words were used in the text itself (both the use and the infrequency of "lingam"). There is no question that the usual meaning is "Sign, mark etc." but the fact remains that those who say it "never" means penis are ignoring part of the (Indian, not just English) history of the term.

[dwai]

No disagreement on the "runging" of the Kama Sutra, it is certainly no where near the Vedas. The only point was whether or not "lingam" had in fact been used in antiquity as a word for the male organ, albeit infrequently. The link was not chosen for its translation, but for its discussion of which Sanskrit words were used in the text itself (both the use and the infrequency of "lingam"). There is no question that the usual meaning is "Sign, mark etc." but the fact remains that those who say it "never" means penis are ignoring part of the (Indian, not just English) history of the term.

 

Dear Taoist81,

 

The fact of the matter is that Lingam is never used to indicate the reproductive organ in India. Indians never think of it that way and those who use the Shiva Lingam for their spiritual or ritual practices don't consider it a "giant penis"!

 

The fact of the matter is that this whole issue has gotten so obfuscated by Westerners that even though it does not have basis in reality, it has been forced to become one. I stand by my refutal of Wendy's translation or her "scholarship" for that matter.

[RongzomFan]

Dear Taoist81,

 

The fact of the matter is that Lingam is never used to indicate the reproductive organ in India. Indians never think of it that way and those who use the Shiva Lingam for their spiritual or ritual practices don't consider it a "giant penis"!

 

The fact of the matter is that this whole issue has gotten so obfuscated by Westerners that even though it does not have basis in reality, it has been forced to become one. I stand by my refutal of Wendy's translation or her "scholarship" for that matter.

 

 

 

I am Indian.

 

I agree.....western scholarship is complete bullshit. Which is sad, because there are so many things the West does not know about in the East.

[Ryan T.]

I am Indian.

 

I agree.....western scholarship is complete bullshit.

 

Hyperbole much? Complete bullshit? Nothing in western scholarship regarding the East is at all accurate or insightful? Overstatements do nothing to correct statements one believes to be inaccurate.

 

 

This is an interesting topic. Strangely I was just thinking about this as I drifted off on a nap this afternoon.

[RongzomFan]

Well some of the English translations can be good, but when it comes to their commentary, watch out!

[Aetherous]

Um....I'm not an Indian or any bit of a scholar...but it makes sense to me that the Shiva Lingam is equated with the penis. It doesn't mean that a lingam is a penis, but they're both objects representing the qualities of pure masculinity.

 

And I don't think it's a big deal when someone calls a penis a lingam...even if it's not a true translation of the term...because people have been doing it for quite a while. Yes, it's useful to know the real meaning of the term, but it seems uptight to correct someone everytime they jokingly misuse it.

 

Although this topic has been informative.

[dwai]

Um....I'm not an Indian or any bit of a scholar...but it makes sense to me that the Shiva Lingam is equated with the penis. It doesn't mean that a lingam is a penis, but they're both objects representing the qualities of pure masculinity.

 

And I don't think it's a big deal when someone calls a penis a lingam...even if it's not a true translation of the term...because people have been doing it for quite a while. Yes, it's useful to know the real meaning of the term, but it seems uptight to correct someone everytime they jokingly misuse it.

 

Although this topic has been informative. smile.gif

 

I don't want to prolong this much further...my apologies to rodger for having distracted from the main theme of his query (which was about ejaculation) and soon the polemics will start flying.

 

But my two cents worth (or two paisas, being Indian and all that)...

 

Who told you Shiva is about Pure Masculinity? Have you heard of Ardhanariswar (The Half Man Half Woman Lord)?

That is another aspect of Shiva revered and worshipped.

 

In any case, Shiva isn't about Masculinity, he is about Consciousness. The Purusha-Prakriti duality isn't as much about Male-Female as it is about Consciousness-Energy (Yin and Yang if you may).

 

See..you might view correcting someone's exacerbating a nasty problem (however unwittingly done it might be) "uptight". I consider it my duty (as an heir to the legacy of my ancestors). Anyway, what gives someone the freedom to take motifs and frameworks from other cultures, appropriating them or worse disfiguring them?

 

Okay...rant over. I'm moving on...this forum is about Taoism, not Indology.

Edited January 9, 2009 by dwai

[Taoist81]

Dear Taoist81,

 

The fact of the matter is that Lingam is never used to indicate the reproductive organ in India. Indians never think of it that way and those who use the Shiva Lingam for their spiritual or ritual practices don't consider it a "giant penis"!

 

The fact of the matter is that this whole issue has gotten so obfuscated by Westerners that even though it does not have basis in reality, it has been forced to become one. I stand by my refutal of Wendy's translation or her "scholarship" for that matter.

 

There was never any disagreement that the vast majority of references to "lingam" have nothing to do with the penis. And no, those practicing puja are not adoring a "giant penis". But the fact remains that the word has in some cases been used in India to refer to it (as evidenced by the kama sutra's use of the word in that way).

As for the mistakes (or possibly intentional misleading) in early Western "scholarship", there is no disagreement there either. These types of mistakes occured in many of the "interpretations" that early research attempted (Egyptian religion, Islam, Taoism etc.). As for Wendy's translation or scholarship, again, no argument. Her merit has no bearing on the words the author of the text used, though.

[dwai]

As for Wendy's translation or scholarship, again, no argument. Her merit has no bearing on the words the author of the text used, though.

 

But it does...aren't you reading and quoting off her translation?

[Taoist81]

But it does...aren't you reading and quoting off her translation?

 

No, the only reason the link above was used (as explicitly pointed out above) was because it discusses the actual Sanskrit words used by THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR, not her translation or insertion. Regardless of how she translates anything else in the book or any other book), if the ORIGINAL AUTHOR used "lingam" to describe the penis then her abilities otherwise as a translator/scholar are unimportant. The Kama Sutra has seen relatively (compared with say, Taoist texts) little difference between translators, thus, since other translators have not translated the word in that text as "Image/mark of Shiva", we don't have to rely on her interpretation.

Again, the above link was not an endorsement of any one translator (regardless of the fact that she also had two other co-authors for the translation in question), it was only used BECAUSE OF THE DISCUSSION OF THE SANSKRIT WORDS IN THE ORIGINAL.

 

They even point out the rarity of the use of lingam when describing the penis.

Bottom line, lingam usually means all that you have pointed out, but it can and has been used in the past (by Indian writers) to describe the penis.