How humans are not physically created to eat meat

[Wayfarer64]

I'm glad this has turned into a garlic thread... I've been a vegetarian - 1st when I was 4 years old - in 1958 & it caused my mom much angst... & a few times in later years - it did not suit me. I eat a bulb of garlic every day - with meat and veggies and salads - and a lot of green tea too. The tea and the garlic are the only "staples" in my diet - the rest is what ever looks fresh...

 

I see humans as havin g evolved as omnivors, & that we cultivated grain to make beer is also quite telling - we are smart and know what we like!

 

That I eat meat has no moral problem for me - I hope to be eaten by something... when I die - either a shark at sea... or worms or a lion in some jungle -

 

it is part of the cycle... aand there is no judgement envolved for other creatures - so why should there be for a bum like me?

 

love to all - Pat

[Taomeow]

Here's two of my favorite bumper stickers:

 

 

" Vegetarian: the Native American for 'bad hunter.' "

 

 

" I am a vegetarian.

Not because I love animals.

But because I hate plants! "

[mantis]

Lol, donut-binger, eh?

 

BTW, speaking of borax, I heard it's one way to de-fluoridate your body. Of course, fluoride is known for leeching calcium out of your bones and calcifying soft tissues with it (including your pineal gland), as well as displacing iodine in your thyroid - so there would be obvious health and cultivation benefits to removing excess amounts of it.

 

So, anyone else ever heard of or try this? Just using some borax to pull it out?

 

thats pretty interesting, i recently started substituting toothpaste with baking soda to brush my teeth, we already have a shower filter here .

 

i was doing some searching and apparently the Borax they recommend is

 

20 Mule Team Borax

 

i believe the dose is 1/4 a teaspoon for a liter.

[Anabhogya-Carya]

 

 

That I eat meat has no moral problem for me - I hope to be eaten by something... when I die - either a shark at sea... or worms or a lion in some jungle -

 

it is part of the cycle... aand there is no judgement envolved for other creatures - so why should there be for a bum like me?

 

love to all - Pat

 

How would you like to be born, bred and killed for the sole purpose of being eaten?

[voidisyinyang]

The same bacteria that predominates in pig faeces and slurry also predominates in the guts of obese people:

 

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:oP0viW...lient=firefox-a

 

http://www.physorg.com/news151608095.html

Edited January 22, 2009 by drew hempel

[voidisyinyang]

The only stable form of odorless "pure" garlic is "allicin powder extract" and apparently this is the only source:

 

http://www.alliforce.com/

[Taiji Bum]

How would you like to be born, bred and killed for the sole purpose of being eaten?

As a human or as a cow? You know cows aren't smart like us, right? If you dont believe me ask one to tell you how he feels about it.

[voidisyinyang]

Wait there's also this company:

 

http://www.allimax.us/

 

I gotta try this stuff.

 

The dude that made allimax mentions "alli-c" -- stuffs expensive:

 

https://astrologyzine.com/health/order.shtml

 

Here's where "alli-c" comes from -- but then they state that a Chinese study found fresh garlic killed stomach cancer -- so.... kind of defeats the whole specialized extract stuff:

 

http://www.allimax.com/index.php?option=co...32&Itemid=5

Edited January 22, 2009 by drew hempel

[mantis]

i found a website selling borax powder for very cheap prices

 

Borax Powder

Learn More Photo

 

A natural source cosmetic grade Sodium Borate that does not contain surfactants and detergents which are commonly found in commercial Borax products. Borax acts as an emulsifier, natural preservative and buffering agent for moisturizers, scrubs and bath salts.

 

it's $3.50 for 1lb and you use, what, 1/4 teaspoon for a liter of water? lol

[Ryan T.]

How would you like to be born, bred and killed for the sole purpose of being eaten?

 

How do you know we're not?

[WestwardMonkey]

Far as myself I am vegan. I started my shift to a vegan diet after I read "The China Study" but technicly I have been slowly shifting that way over time. Earlier in my life I tried a vegan diet and only lasted a month. As time went on I realized just jumping into it was why. So I took a more gradual change slowly getting rid of meats over time and after "The China Study" I went to vegan very easy. Health wise I feel way better tons of issues I had health wise vanished plus I dropped 15lbs. Meeting nutritional requirement are easy alot more vitamins and minerals. Although I stay with organicly grow products. It would make no sense eating healthier if the pesticides, additives and preservative are doing me in. Most importantly I am happy with the transition to a vegan diet if I was not happy I would not do it. Now if you are willing to give it a try I highly recommend it especialy if you are at an age where you are starting to have little problems show up or even if you are younger and want to maintain your health give it a try you will see what I am talking about. There are also many athletes that are vegan. I remember reading of a body builder too. So if you are worried about this diet as an athlete you are more than fine. Far as the argument of killing animal and plants, plants and animals respond to stimulus both showing fear towards harm. It would be nice not to harm either but in order to survive we have to eat. We could starve out of a will not to harm any life but then why do exist then. The body is important. My view on it eat enoph, don't be wasteful, be thankful for the food you eat and do your best to be worthy of it. To give up one life for another is a great sacrifice.

[Wayfarer64]

How would you like to be born, bred and killed for the sole purpose of being eaten?

 

If I am eaten in the end of my days in this body - then it may be that becoming food is the last best purpose of my current life...

 

Liking or disliking is not always relavent when it comes to karma -whatever my "fate " is in this life or whatever my reincarnated body may be - is not very likely going to be up to my eating habits. If I ate ALOT of meat it may kill me with cholesterol and that would be a cosmic goof indeed -in fact people who eat abundant amounts of fatty meat are just stupid...

 

But My Hung-Gar master ate little greens and mostly red meat- he clamed this helped him to build his yang powers - his son had to sneek greens when he could!

 

If it is so that being currently a meat eater dictates that I become food in my next life - then I shall perhaps be coming back as a chicken - and a free -range chicken has a pretty sweet life compared to most wild animals- or krill or some such bait-fish - what does it matter? My spirit will be intact and will need to become aware as I am able and my brain allows me to be able...

 

I have a bigger problem with alzhimers -taking a human being's ability to function as a cognicent being then any creature being eaten... Life has many dangers, get over it... we all die and most eat the dead of some beast or veggy- and veggies feel too!

 

Actually I hope to come back as a Tardigrade -they are close to being indistructible critters and have a cozy/mossy habitat... Otters are also way up there as desirable incarnations... But Being "bred" indicates subjugation to humans - more than being food... Almost all living things eventually get eaten-only those cremated are useless as food...

 

I have felt guilty about eating animals and believe that killing and eating is more noble than being distant from the source... And yes I have killed chickens -pigs that we bred - ( naming them - Breakfast, Lunch & Dinner - so as not to become attached - pigs are pretty likable as well as delicious )-

I have hunted and fished- (fresh Tuna -was the best food I ever ate!!!)

 

I am what I eat and make no appologies - I do offer prayers for the spirits of my "food" to be fulfilled and express my gratitude as well as bless those who I share meals with. We are all in this together and the cycle is a beautiful expression of cosmic order...

 

 

love to all-Pat

[voidisyinyang]

It's interesting that your teacher claimed red meat gave him yang energy. When I used to load up on McD double cheeseburgers I definitely got a "testosterone" kick -- my voice would get real deep and I would need to lose a load so to speak -- which I did via the pineal gland as "O at a Ds" (psychic mutual climaxes) while in full-lotus. At the same time I also had my body messed up from tons of anerobic bacteria and cholesterol, etc. My point is that yang is electromagnetic energy while testosterone is YIN energy -- it's electrochemical. So I can get the same "yin" energy just from other people -- and then convert it to yang -- electromagnetic -- without all the problems from FOOD. This is what qigong masters do -- and it's how the bigu diet works -- conversely you can collect the yang as electromagnetic energy and then shoot it via the pineal gland back into your own lower body (instead of others) and then it turns back into yang electromagnetic energy. Like I said before the Tibetan monks would eat meat at the very beginning stages of tummo but after that it actually DECONVERTS the electromagnetic YANG energy back into yin electrochemical energy.

[Mal]

[voidisyinyang]

Well I've carefully crafted an eccentric persona over the years so last night I enjoyed a bulb of garlic with a bunch of cilantro -- my coworkers say I remind them of salsa and they love it. Of course if I eat normal food than I'm smoke unless I have a garlic. Today I ate maybe a third of a bottle of garlic oil capsules since I was out of fresh garlic. I had two eggs, two oranges -- and I just CHEWED the capsules. They definitely helped to kill off the anaerobic bacteria from the sugar in the fruit and the acidic protein in the eggs, and oil, etc. Still it wasn't quite enough so I've fallen back on soap and toothpaste. I did have an O at a D with "ye old perv" housemate as he took his second bath of the day 10 feet from me, while I was in full-lotus reading Wayne Madsen's new book. haha.

[gendao]

i found a website selling borax powder for very cheap prices

it's $3.50 for 1lb and you use, what, 1/4 teaspoon for a liter of water? lol

Got the link for that?

 

I need to research this a bit more. Some have said the "20 Mule Team Borax" is fine to use...but I have some and on the box it says not to take internally because it contains sodium tetraborate decahydrate.

 

Of course that could be an overconservative CYA warning, but if there's a safer form of boron, I'd rather use that instead!

Borax, sodium tetraborate decahydrate, is not acutely toxic. Its LD50 (median lethal dose) score is tested at 2.66 g/kg in rats. This does not mean that it is safe, merely that a significant dose of the chemical is needed to cause severe symptoms or death.

[mantis]

Got the link for that?

 

I need to research this a bit more. Some have said the "20 Mule Team Borax" is fine to use...but I have some and on the box it says not to take internally because it contains sodium tetraborate decahydrate.

 

Of course that could be an overconservative CYA warning, but if there's a safer form of boron, I'd rather use that instead!

 

ah, the link!

 

here

 

scroll down to borax powder

[Anabhogya-Carya]

As a human or as a cow? You know cows aren't smart like us, right? If you dont believe me ask one to tell you how he feels about it.

 

And so what? Lack of intelligence means what? They still feel pain and can make efforts to avoid pain.

 

You know we may not be the most intelligent creature in the universe right? Does that make us inferior? Or merely food?

 

intelligence is a faculty, not a unqualified sign of superiority.

 

And still no mention of compassion. Abstract metaphysical ideas of unknowable things are sad justifications. Placing gastromonic preferences and claims of mystical energy gains above compassion.

 

 

 

I am what I eat and make no appologies - I do offer prayers for the spirits of my "food" to be fulfilled and express my gratitude as well as bless those who I share meals with. We are all in this together and the cycle is a beautiful expression of cosmic order...

love to all-Pat

 

How convenient a claim.

[gendao]

ah, the link!

 

here

 

scroll down to borax powder

Ah thanks! Carries the same warning as the "20 Mule Team Borax," though:

Not to be ingested, large doses may be fatal. May cause irritation if exposed to the skin, eyes, or if inhaled. Handle with caution, and keep away from children and pets.

 

Chemical Analysis

Anhydrous Borax- 53.8

Boric Acid - 37.2%

Sodium Oxide - 16.6%

Water of Crystallization - 46.2%

Chloride- 37ppm

So, now I'm looking for a completely safe form of boron, or some knowledge that this borax is safe to ingest in small quantities (like a pinch a day)?

 

I do have a hunch the warning may be overblown as a legal disclaimer, though. I mean, if it really may cause irritation if exposed to the skin, then why is it:

widely used in the cosmetic industry

utilized as a detergent

a main ingredient in their favorite brand of bath salt

found in creams, lotions, shampoos, gels, bath salts, and bath bombs

borax has the ability to soften the water, and suspend soap particles in the bathwater. The result is soft, clean, and healthy skin, which is not clogged by the residue of soap particles

Seems a contradiction if it "may cause skiin irritation"...yet also result in "soft, clean, and healthy skin," lol...

[Yoda]

anyone test piloted borax yet? Or should I be the first?

[Wayfarer64]

And so what? Lack of intelligence means what? They still feel pain and can make efforts to avoid pain.

 

You know we may not be the most intelligent creature in the universe right? Does that make us inferior? Or merely food?

 

intelligence is a faculty, not a unqualified sign of superiority.

 

And still no mention of compassion. Abstract metaphysical ideas of unknowable things are sad justifications. Placing gastromonic preferences and claims of mystical energy gains above compassion.

How convenient a claim.

 

 

It is not merely a claim -It is a fact. And convenience has nothing to do with my beliefs. If they are not your beliefs it does not disturb me in the least.

 

I have compassion for the beasts I eat and the homeless I try to house and the hungry I try to feed -in my work as the founder of two not for profit organizations. If I were to insist that the people I try to help get food -only eat vegetables -they would dislike it. As I stated I have been a vegetarian for several reasons. I am not a vegitarian now because I have worked thru my emotional responses to life and and am now more mature in my thinking.

 

Yr lack of compassion for meat eaters is just astounding to me! Yr value judgements are absurd. Life is far too complex to put your values above other's values. Compassion for animals is a great good, but it is not the only tool in the box.

 

And when it come to the food chain- intelligence is what brought us to the top. We are built to be omnivores not vegetarians that is obvious not convenient.

 

That your moral center is reliant on not eating meat is merely a state of mind being led by yr emotions, that you try to make it out to be some intellectual & compassionate triumph -just does not hold water. It is still just yr belief. It does not fit with my view of the cosmic order. I am willing to be food. Why aren't you?

Edited January 23, 2009 by Wayfarer64

[mantis]

anyone test piloted borax yet? Or should I be the first?

 

i'm going to try and order some soon

[Yoda]

After a quick review of the LD50 scores of various things I've ingested, I took about 1/2 tsp 30 minutes ago and feel fine. If anything goes wrong I'll let you knouaiopig; dsgjlcbkxvm,.khoyi05920gji ;ioj helpme!poafwuieonhf;akl dmvn,.z idlgh io;v;

[gendao]

^ Lol, I took a pinch the other day, obviously can't tell much effects from that small quantity either way, though...

 

Here's some interesting info on boron, though. Apparently it may help boost testosterone, fight arthritis and strengthens bones. But, 1-10mg is considered safe...while 50mg or more may start showing some toxicity.

Dried fruits, nuts, dark green leafy vegetables, applesauce, grape juice, and cooked dried beans and peas.

Meat and fish are poor dietary sources of boron.

One mg of boron is found in 1.5 ounces of raisins or prunes; 2 ounces of almonds or peanuts; 4 ounces of red wine

Dried prunes are a good source of boron

To get 10 mg then, you'd have to eat 15 oz of raisins or prunes. Although, some say 3mg/day is plenty and 10mg may be excessive. So, that would equal only 3 oz of raisins/prunes.

A leading boron expert has suggested 1-3 mg per day of boron is a reasonable amount to consume. People who eat adequate amounts of produce, nuts, and legumes are likely already eating two to six times this amount. Therefore, whether the average person would benefit by supplementing with this mineral remains unclear.

Anyhow, for supplementation,

Sodium borate is the most common form of supplement.

 

Toxic effects appear at intakes of about 100 mg. The World Health Organization has banned boron (in the form of boric acid) as a food additive and preservative. Toxic effects include a red rash with weeping skin, vomiting, diarrhea characterized by a blue green color, depressed blood circulation, coma and convulsions. A fatal dose in adults is 15 to 20 g and in children 3 to 6 g. Repeated intakes of small amounts can cause accumulative toxicity.

 

Boron may be beneficial in the treatment of osteoporosis. Supplements of around 3 mg per day have been shown to enhance the effects of estrogen in postmenopausal women. This is likely to contribute to its beneficial effects on bone health.

 

Boron supplements of 6 to 9 mg per day have been used to treat osteoarthritis with some improvement of symptoms.

 

The boric acid and borax forms of boron are toxic and should never be consumed.

Some workers have shown that 3gm boric acid or 5gm borax have no effect on the adult human, while others have reported symptoms at 1-2gm per day. No one is likely to take too much in their food even if they do use a supplement that contains only a few mg per tablet.

 

The acute toxic dose for an adult is from 20 to 60gm in a single administration, but infants have died with 5gm, yet others lived after being given 9gm of boric acid.

Sooo, I'm guessing the safest way would be to eat sufficient (~3mg/day?) dietary sources of boron.

Next might be to supplement with maybe 3mg/day on a periodic flush cycle.

Next would be to supplement with more continually.

 

And borax may not really be that dangerous in small doses, but to err on the side of caution, I think I'd rather just take a safer form instead.

Edited January 23, 2009 by vortex

[voidisyinyang]

Actually I had a bad case of up the butt bugs -- bed bugs maybe -- and then I came across an anarchist DIY booklet recommending borax for female use (maybe contraceptive) -- so I shoved a bunch up the ass since nothing else was killing them off. I was sitting in full-lotus quite a bit but also relying on small universe and tai-chi (not just full-lotus like now). Anyway the stuff, like all body toxins, cleared out of my eyes -- which got pretty bloody. No one called me on it since the qigong cleared it up fast -- but there was some eye damage which was a bit longer term and is totally gone now. Anyway that was A LOT of borax -- probably a teaspoon at one straight shot. I was just happy that what ever had moved into my ass was now vacant. haha.